Newbie in buying bonds

athletic91

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Looking at a grade A local company bond that pays 5% P/A
investment time frame 2-5 years.

is the ROI feasible and usually whats the min amount ?
 

henrylbh

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Looking at a grade A local company bond that pays 5% P/A
investment time frame 2-5 years.

is the ROI feasible and usually whats the min amount ?

Is like asking where to find a condo at 800psf in district 9.
 

wahkao3

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I also looking for low risk credit rating AAA, but want high return
anyone can recommend?

the best i can find is CPF OA 4%
 
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BBCWatcher

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the best i can find is CPF OA 4%
Assuming you would be saving income earned from work, i.e. ordinarily taxed, you may be able to do even better. If you haven't maxed out your CPF contributions you can make a cash top-up into CPF SA or RA (depending on your age). And if you qualify for the CPF Cash Top-up Relief, then you're contributing from pre-tax income. Pre-tax means you're effectively boosting the yield based on your tax bracket. (Other forms of savings presumably require using after-tax income.) CPF SA earns as much as 5%, and CPF RA as much as 6%, and that's not counting the tax benefit.

You may also be eligible to top-up somebody else's CPF account: parent, grandparent, spouse, and/or sibling. That money then becomes theirs, but, for example, if you're saving for the whole household then topping up your spouse's CPF account works too.

CPF is the highest yielding AAA-rated savings vehicle you're going to find, and the tax advantages only add to the "headline" rate. I'm a fan. (Not a fan of the optional investment products within CPF. I would stick to the "old fashioned," traditional CPF yields.)

....OK, another "AAA-rated" high yielding savings vehicle is to pay off any high or even medium interest rate debt. For example, if you're carrying a credit card balance with an 18% APY, paying that off guarantees an effective yield of whatever the inverse of 18% is. Arguably reducing an unnecessary expense is "AAA-rated" savings -- investing in an efficiency gadget that reduces your electric bill, for example. Suppose you buy a gadget for $100 and it cuts your electric bill by $3/month ($36/year). In less than three years you break even (ignoring inflation), and past that you come out ahead. That can be functionally "AAA-rated" and a great way to save with high yield. There are occasionally "no brainer" investments you can make at home that are extremely reliable, proven ways to yield returns. Maybe solar panels, maybe a home garden, maybe a smoking cessation class (and patches), maybe a travel coffee mug instead of Starbucks.... It depends on your situation, but sometimes there are such opportunities to invest for reliable, high returns right at home.
 
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MikeZhang

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Assuming you would be saving income earned from work, i.e. ordinarily taxed, you may be able to do even better. If you haven't maxed out your CPF contributions you can make a cash top-up into CPF SA or RA (depending on your age). And if you qualify for the CPF Cash Top-up Relief, then you're contributing from pre-tax income. Pre-tax means you're effectively boosting the yield based on your tax bracket. (Other forms of savings presumably require using after-tax income.) CPF SA earns as much as 5%, and CPF RA as much as 6%, and that's not counting the tax benefit.

You may also be eligible to top-up somebody else's CPF account: parent, grandparent, spouse, and/or sibling. That money then becomes theirs, but, for example, if you're saving for the whole household then topping up your spouse's CPF account works too.

CPF is the highest yielding AAA-rated savings vehicle you're going to find, and the tax advantages only add to the "headline" rate. I'm a fan. (Not a fan of the optional investment products within CPF. I would stick to the "old fashioned," traditional CPF yields.)

....OK, another "AAA-rated" high yielding savings vehicle is to pay off any high or even medium interest rate debt. For example, if you're carrying a credit card balance with an 18% APY, paying that off guarantees an effective yield of whatever the inverse of 18% is. Arguably reducing an unnecessary expense is "AAA-rated" savings -- investing in an efficiency gadget that reduces your electric bill, for example. Suppose you buy a gadget for $100 and it cuts your electric bill by $3/month ($36/year). In less than three years you break even (ignoring inflation), and past that you come out ahead. That can be functionally "AAA-rated" and a great way to save with high yield. There are occasionally "no brainer" investments you can make at home that are extremely reliable, proven ways to yield returns. Maybe solar panels, maybe a home garden, maybe a smoking cessation class (and patches), maybe a travel coffee mug instead of Starbucks.... It depends on your situation, but sometimes there are such opportunities to invest for reliable, high returns right at home.


Bond still tradable or even hold till maturity. Cpf is one way ticket. 2 are different tools
 

BBCWatcher

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Cpf is one way ticket.
I don't know about you, but I plan to grow old. Life is a one way ticket. ;)

That said, "not exactly." CPF has a couple pre-retirement disbursement options. However, if you know of a AAA-rated short- or medium-term bond that yields anywhere close to 4% on an after-tax basis, with inflation adjustment and in a well managed currency without capital controls, please us know!
 

henrylbh

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Bond still tradable or even hold till maturity. Cpf is one way ticket. 2 are different tools

Bond not guaranteed unlike Cpf which is almost risk free. Cpf can still be used for housing etc. If able to meet FRS from mandatory contributions, whatever voluntary contributions put in, can be withdrawn at 55.
 

BBCWatcher

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Bond not guaranteed unlike Cpf which is almost risk free.
Well, it depends on the bond. There are some AAA-rated bonds, including Singapore's own Singapore Government Securities (SGS) and their Savings Bond counterparts. They just don't yield anywhere near 4%, they don't have the tax advantages, and they're not inflation-adjusted (or only weakly inflation-adjusted). But yes, they're somewhat closer to an on-demand cash account.

As another example, the United States Treasury offers 30 year "I-Bonds." Like CPF you need "status" to buy them (nationality or permanent residence) -- or at least I think you do -- and like CPF there's an annual limit. Like CPF their yield is inflation-adjusted and subject to a minimum yield (0% in the case of I Bonds). Unlike CPF you can cash out at any time (albeit you lose up to 6 months of interest if you do that before 5 years), the yield is low, and the tax advantages are much weaker. If you buy an I Bond today, as I write this, the current nominal yield is 0.26%. That I Bond will pay interest for up to 30 years, and the interest will be readjusted every 6 months for U.S. domestic inflation. The nominal yield will be calculated/recalculated at 0.1% above inflation.(*) U.S. income tax on the interest is deferred until maturity or cash out, whichever comes first. For most people the income tax means the I Bond won't quite keep up with inflation. That is, in real terms, most people have to pay the U.S. Treasury to hold their U.S. dollar cash. (Unless you can avoid the income tax, which you can if you are moderate income and spend the proceeds on a qualified educational expense, or if you are low income.) Not a great deal! But the I Bond is actually one of the better deals among highly credit worthy government bonds. Fitch rates the U.S. Treasury as AAA, and S&P and Moodys are at AA+ and Aaa respectively. The United States government is a sovereign that can print its own fiat currency (the world's most prominent reserve currency), and it has the biggest army by far. Short of a global catastrophe (when you'll have bigger things to worry about) those bonds are going to be repaid. But look how low that real yield is (0.1%, pre-tax) compared to CPF!

OK, granted, depending on what currency(ies) you need an I Bond might be somewhat more attractive or not. But this just gives you an idea of how low yielding high quality sovereign bonds are right now. Japanese, German, Swiss, U.K., etc. -- they're all extremely low yielding. CPF isn't, and that's unique.

(*) Several years ago the U.S. Treasury issued I Bonds that have nominal yields equal to the inflation rate plus 3% or more. Those lucky individuals holding those particular tranches have some very nice bonds in their portfolio. The best tranche of all time was issued in mid-2000: U.S. Consumer Price Index inflation plus 3.6%. Wow, are those nice bonds -- and they'll keep accruing interest for another 14 years or so. (They're nominally yielding about 3.8% during the current 6 month period, as I write this. Pre-tax, tax deferred. That yield is more CPF-like but still not quite CPF -- and that's the best I Bond of all time, if you bought it 16 years ago.) I Bonds cannot be traded on the secondary market, so the smart move is to keep holding those "three percenters" to maturity. (And the "two percenters" as well, and probably also the "one percenters.")

Sometimes you can do pretty well with I Bonds when the inflation rate is volatile, even when it is generally low (as in recent years). Since the inflation recalculation is trailing (as it has to be), there are a few occasions when the inflation rate spikes up -- maybe oil and vegetables have a "bad" month or two, or whatever -- and then there's a buying opportunity, to buy and hold an I Bond for only one year. Occasionally the inflation spike happens and you can beat one year U.S. fixed deposit (called CD) bank rates. You lose 6 months of interest by cashing out so early, so you only collect 6 months of interest. But the 6 months interest you collect is based on the inflation spike, when it happens, and that might work well.
 

MikeZhang

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I don't know about you, but I plan to grow old. Life is a one way ticket. ;)

That said, "not exactly." CPF has a couple pre-retirement disbursement options. However, if you know of a AAA-rated short- or medium-term bond that yields anywhere close to 4% on an after-tax basis, with inflation adjustment and in a well managed currency without capital controls, please us know!

Is not about me. More to TS. In this thread TS wanting to learn more about bonds. So maybe our post should be more focus on how he can learn about bonds.
 

Sai777

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Bond and CPF are two different tools cater for different people. No need to argue which is better.

As for TS, the answer is NO.
 

wahkao3

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Bond and CPF are two different tools cater for different people. No need to argue which is better.

As for TS, the answer is NO.

some ppl like high risk high return
some ppl like low risk low return

some heros even like high risk low return


indeed different tools suit different ppl
 
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