Nvidia: nice intentions ? Think again...

[Outramkia]

You can tell the nVidia fanboys this, shout it out loud to them, but they won't listen as, to them, nVidia is doing right by them. Even in overseas forums, I get replies amount to, 'nVidia has done this before, nothing new, nothing to see'.

Big difference now is nGreedia has a product page, and spinning (bamboozling more like it) it like they care about gamers, and doing gamers a solid by limiting the hash rate on the RTX 3060 cards (laughable as there'd be a workaround this, if nGreedia were serious about this, a firmware lock would be more appropriate) and producing CMP cards which would not affect GPU supplies, again laughable claim as CMP's are GPU's in actual fact.

nVidia fanboys would never acknowledge this, no matter how many times you tell them...to them, nGreedia can do no wrong.

It's just business dude. They are not some charity organization. Same goes for amd and any other profit making businesses.

 

[Gaminator]

It's just business dude. They are not some charity organization. Same goes for amd and any other profit making businesses.

I understand that it's business and both AMD and nGreedia are out to make money, but, don't spin it like the supply of CMP does not affect the supply of GPU's to gamers....it most certainly does! I don't see AMD spinning any feel good stories now about cards being used for mining, do you?

The point is, CMP cards are GPU's, but due to the very specific nature of the product, CMP cards cannot be used as GPU's in the future when the mining craze slumps. Again, unlike the GTX 1000 cards that were used for mining, and can be sold in 2nd hand or used market as gaming cards, CMP cards can not be sold as such....dead end product it can only be recycled.

What I hate is the spin that nGreedia has made on their CMP cards, call a spade a spade. Don't make it sound like CMP's are different from their GeForce GPU's, they aren't. IF they can't make the specs for a specific SKU, they can be sold as lower end GPU's, like perhaps an RTX 3050, but I guess the demand for CMP's is high, so it's more profitable for them to sell these GPU's as CMP's, but tell it like it is.

Don't spin it, we aren't stupid, that's why I applaud Linus for having the cajones to call out nGreedia for this. I don't think any other tech sites I've gone to, like guru3d/TPU/etc, have the moxie to do what Linus did.

 

[watzup_ken]

It's just business dude. They are not some charity organization. Same goes for amd and any other profit making businesses.

There is no doubt they are in the for profit business, thus, no debate on this. That's also why I said, Nvidia is doing this mostly for themselves, and marketing it as an effort to "help" gamers. That is probably 10% of the reason why they gimp "gaming" cards when mining, and created a new line of "mining cards". The idea is to highlight that they are not some knight in shining armor.

 

[watzup_ken]

I understand that it's business and both AMD and nGreedia are out to make money, but, don't spin it like the supply of CMP does not affect the supply of GPU's to gamers....it most certainly does! I don't see AMD spinning any feel good stories now about cards being used for mining, do you?

The point is, CMP cards are GPU's, but due to the very specific nature of the product, CMP cards cannot be used as GPU's in the future when the mining craze slumps. Again, unlike the GTX 1000 cards that were used for mining, and can be sold in 2nd hand or used market as gaming cards, CMP cards can not be sold as such....dead end product it can only be recycled.

What I hate is the spin that nGreedia has made on their CMP cards, call a spade a spade. Don't make it sound like CMP's are different from their GeForce GPU's, they aren't. IF they can't make the specs for a specific SKU, they can be sold as lower end GPU's, like perhaps an RTX 3050, but I guess the demand for CMP's is high, so it's more profitable for them to sell these GPU's as CMP's, but tell it like it is.

Don't spin it, we aren't stupid, that's why I applaud Linus for having the cajones to call out nGreedia for this. I don't think any other tech sites I've gone to, like guru3d/TPU/etc, have the moxie to do what Linus did.

I think some sites do. Surprisingly WCCFTech just came up with something too.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-cmp-ser...ooks-to-be-to-kill-second-hand-resale-market/

 

[Yongkit]

There is no doubt they are in the for profit business, thus, no debate on this. That's also why I said, Nvidia is doing this mostly for themselves, and marketing it as an effort to "help" gamers. That is probably 10% of the reason why they gimp "gaming" cards when mining, and created a new line of "mining cards". The idea is to highlight that they are not some knight in shining armor.

probably they want to add 1 new line in their P&L, and being first creating a new standard benchmark in the industry

 

[CI]

There's no overlap

CMP 30HX and 40HX -> Turing based made by TSMC at 12nm
RTX 3060 -> Ampere based made by Samsung at 8nm

nVidia just expanded their market.

 

[Gaminator]

There's no overlap

CMP 30HX and 40HX -> Turing based made by TSMC at 12nm
RTX 3060 -> Ampere based made by Samsung at 8nm

nVidia just expanded their market.

In times of severe shortage such as now, even Turing based GPU's would be welcomed by gamers, doncha agree?

 

[Yongkit]

Actually I am very curious

1. how many gamer actually bought the second hand gpu from miner from 2 years back in SG?

2. How is it perform as of today? No degrading of quality or any issue?

I can't seems to find any remarks from this question in hwz forum...

 

[Yongkit]

https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tec...GPU+mining+is+coming+back&utm_medium=referral

No more update from Sapphire?

 

[CI]

In times of severe shortage such as now, even Turing based GPU's would be welcomed by gamers, doncha agree?

Nope, demand is so pent up now it will just be gobbled up by miners and scalpers. Look at the ridiculous prices and there's still severe shortage.

nVidia is gradually directing most of the mining demand to older processes so that they can sell GPUs on newer processes to gamers. Demand for mining only lasts as long as the cryptocurrencies are high and that's unpredictable. Demand by gamers are consistent and that's the bread and butter for nVidia. They are making an an optimal move.

The follow-up logical move will be to implement and re-release the rest of the 30 series with the same mining crippling feature around the same time they release the CMP 50HX and 90HX (Q2 this year). 90HX is the only version supposedly based on Ampere but I wonder if it is a move to sell off chips that might otherwise fail to qualify as a GPU.

 

[Gaminator]

Nope, demand is so pent up now it will just be gobbled up by miners and scalpers. Look at the ridiculous prices and there's still severe shortage.

The point is, there would be more GPU's available compared to now, and even IF they were to be sold as GeForce cards, and the miners gobble up supply, a year or two down the road when the crypto mining phase hit a slump, these cards could then be sold to gamers.

nVidia doesn't want this, they lie all the time, despite all the assurances that these GPU's did not make the cut as GPU, who's to say that isn't a lie? Also, even IF these GPU's failed to make the cut as, say, RTX 3060, they might still qualify as a lower end card (like an RTX 3050 for example), but turning them to CMP's simply removed them from future upgraders looking for cheap used GPU's (during a mining slump), something Linus had pointed out.

 

[CI]

The point is, there would be more GPU's available compared to now, and even IF they were to be sold as GeForce cards, and the miners gobble up supply, a year or two down the road when the crypto mining phase hit a slump, these cards could then be sold to gamers.

nVidia doesn't want this, they lie all the time, despite all the assurances that these GPU's did not make the cut as GPU, who's to say that isn't a lie? Also, even IF these GPU's failed to make the cut as, say, RTX 3060, they might still qualify as a lower end card (like an RTX 3050 for example), but turning them to CMP's simply removed them from future upgraders looking for cheap used GPU's (during a mining slump), something Linus had pointed out.

Nobody knows how long the current mining boom will lasts. Two years down the road we'll most likely be seeing 40 series being released. If the mining boom is indeed over, supply is not an issue. There will still be an excess of Turing cards on top of Ampere and its successor. If its crypto remains high, there's no reason that the current situation will change. nVidia doesn't really care about the second hand market, what it cares is that its bread and butter business is not affected. GPUs for gamers are its primary market, not miners.

What you are suggesting goes the other way, nVidia producing more chips based on older architectures for gamers while leaving the latest for the miners.

 

[soltrdc]

GPUs for gamers are its primary market, not miners.

This is naive thinking. Whoever buys their GPUs is their market. I really don't think they care what anyone uses their GPUs for as long as they sell them, and they are currently selling them, and it's totally selling out. People can buy GPUs to make a bed to sleep on for all they care, lol.


What LTT said, I already said long ago in the other notorious thread. The 3060 launch has proven it. The answer to all these issues is that production is increased, not to have further product differentiation. Half hashrate so what? It's still out of stock, prices are still super inflated. No need to look into the sky to imagine things, the answer is already staring you in the face..

 

[CI]

This is naive thinking. Whoever buys their GPUs is their market. I really don't think they care what anyone uses their GPUs for as long as they sell them, and they are currently selling them, and it's totally selling out. People can buy GPUs to make a bed to sleep on for all they care, lol.


What LTT said, I already said long ago in the other notorious thread. The 3060 launch has proven it. The answer to all these issues is that production is increased, not to have further product differentiation. Half hashrate so what? It's still out of stock, prices are still super inflated. No need to look into the sky to imagine things, the answer is already staring you in the face..

Gamers buy GPUs to play games. Miners and scalpers suck up all the GPUs they can lay their hands on to make money. You think increasing production will solve the problem? If I am a miner or scalper, I'll be very happy coz more GPU I can get = more $$$ for me. Too bad for the gamers who can't afford $1,000+ GPUs.

Segregation offers a chance for nVidia to cater for both gamers (primary market) and miners (secondary market). Why have both gamers and miners fighting for the same product (and pissing your primary market off) when you can sell 2 versions at the same time? It's a win-win for them. It might even help with the scalping issue since miners are the ones more likely to pay higher prices for GPUs.

The thing I am more curious about is how the crippling is executed. Can it be say, 1/20 instead of 1/2?

 

[soltrdc]

If I am a miner or scalper, I'll be very happy coz more GPU I can get = more $$$ for me. Too bad for the gamers who can't afford $1,000+ GPUs.

Of course you are right in this. Miners don't care about gamers. However, you are probably mistaken if you think nVidia on the other hand actually cares much about gamers too, which is what the whole topic of this thread is about. The point has been made in the video - as a private business, they only really need to care about their shareholders, who in turn don't care who nvidia sells their stuff to as long as it makes money.

In the first place, you think that primary/secondary market is based on principles. Nvidia is not a charity or even a "business with a cause". Whichever market is bigger in terms of REVENUE, IS the primary target market. Guess who has more money to buy their stuff with? Put it another way: nvidia is a business, and every decision is a business decision. You are only as valuable to them as how much you add to their bottom line.

Increasing production of regular GPUs helps because it helps with overall availability. If they release 10000 GPUs at a time instead of 10, everyone has a better chance of getting one.

Edit: the other point made in the video is also that GPUs sold to miners will eventually find their way into the hands of regular users thru sales of pre-used units while it will never happen with CMPs. This was shown in the case of the 10 series vs. 20 series availability in the resale market. Of course, everyone prefers to have it new and have it now, but if that's not happening for the 30 series, then at least some time down the road we can still get some of it via resale. Used doesn't mean unusable. Proper miners actually put a lot of effort into maintaining their cards running on optimal cooling and performance, probably more than the average PC user or even gamer.

Oh well, truth is out there. If you don't agree that's fine. End of the day, the outcome will show whether what Nvidia says really works or not.

 

[Clearnfc]

Think of the bright side, you can keep your existing GPU for much long period!!

 

[xonix]

Nvidia's RTX20 series cards sales suffered in part due to overpriced products and strong resale market for used mining GPU.

They are killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Clearnfc]

In times of severe shortage such as now, even Turing based GPU's would be welcomed by gamers, doncha agree?

Gamers is one thing, manufacturers is another. If this mining craze lasted only a short time, manufacturers could end up having many unsold turing cards.

 

[soltrdc]

Gamers is one thing, manufacturers is another. If this mining craze lasted only a short time, manufacturers could end up having many unsold turing cards.

nVidia has already announced re-release of 2060 and 1050 (yes, even Pascal) cards, so yeah, manufacturers are going to have Turing and Pascal cards to sell. And they will get sold, lol.

 

[Gaminator]

Nvidia's RTX20 series cards sales suffered in part due to overpriced products and strong resale market for used mining GPU.

They are killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

nVidia fanboys can't or refuse to see this. CMP cards isn't gonna help them out in the future when the mining craze die down unlike the GTX 1000 series cards did which affected the sale of Turing (RTX 2000 series) cards. In effect, cutting off supply of what would otherwise be Turing and Ampere cards for gamers in the future. In other words, nVidia is killing two birds with one stone, like you'd said, and nVidia boys are defending them and thanking them for it.

One thing I'll admit, nVidia has a great marketing and PR dept, masterful spin doctors they are!