odometer tampering

[Comage]

Everyone says tampering is a common practice, I wonder y is lta not taking any action to prevent this.

Because there is no benefits for LTA to enforce and do so, given that cars are mostly limited by the 10-years lifespan, and most car owners simply scrap after 10 years rather than renew and continue driving. So it doesn't make sense to create a system for tracking something for only up to 10 years (on average).

Or, probably because they have no means to enforce even if they laid down the rules.

Our dear LTA is a far cry from the USA DMV where cars are categorized by titles bands such as repo car, flood car, accident car, stolen car etc etc...

Even when you import a legitimate aftermarket spare part to fix up your car because the original vehicle manufacturer doesn't make it anymore, they also will reject you and think you're trying to illegally modify your vehicle, even if you have proof the aftermarket part was manufactured to spec as per original manufacturers'... The atrocity, irony and incompetence!

So don't even talk about enforcing what odometer tampering.

 

[myviowner]

I have never met any local car owner who sends his vehicle in for regular servicing once the warranty is up. Or if they got a used car.

Yes... indeed LOL.



I bought a 10-yr COE car with 90,000+ km mileage - can you believe it?

It was used as a PHV (there was a diamond-shaped label imprint on the windscreen), and came in the below state when I received the keys:
- All 4 x tyres came with different brands and sizes
- 2 x wipers were of mismatched lengths
- Nuts and bolts in the engine compartment came with assorted sizes and lengths
- Vehicle smelt nice for the first month, and then roaches sightings were observed; first, 1 x roach a month, then 1 x roach a day. Turns out the vehicle was roach-infested with hundreds of eggs uncovered beneath the door plastic trim panels
- Body chassis was bent from a t-bone collision; dealer sold it as "Accident free!"
I found out one day when I jacked up the car to do a brake job and realised the brake caliper pins were bent from the impact
- Zip ties all over the underside, holding up parts which should've been joined with a bolt/nut
- Rear bumper was dislodged from a rear collision, and additional screws were used to anchor the dislodged bumper back to the chassis
- Solar films were warped badly - like looking through a coke glass bottle. Gave me such a headache when driving, I switched the solar films within the first week for brand-new ones
- Initial engine oil change was done on the same day of getting keys; the oil was thick as sludge and drooped out slowly. I used a SureFire tactical torchlight to shine through the sludge as it drooped out - the light couldn't even shine through the drained-out oil.
- Same thing for ATF - fluid came out all black and thick as sludge
- Spark plugs came out on the first day, all black, charred and overused. Mechanic estimated they must've gone through 2 x lifetimes of use

So.... when you say "PHV car change oil once per month" - I am seriously rolling my eyes...

Agreed.
The truth is painful...

 

[myviowner]

Everyone says tampering is a common practice, I wonder y is lta not taking any action to prevent this.

Who reports and if there are.... only those have time and $$.

 

[fake_oranges]

Everyone says tampering is a common practice, I wonder y is lta not taking any action to prevent this.

you should buy first hand if you are bothered by it

 

[chehjin]

Who reports and if there are.... only those have time and $$.

in sg where ligation is costly even when u win it’s just throwing money down the drain.
for those who have $$ usually wun bother buying 2nd hand or they will just get through trusted agents.

 

[chehjin]

Paid by rental company? Then why hirer still insist to not bring it in for engine oil changes?

Engine oil change at most take up 1 hour at any workshop - why got hirer so ngiao until don't even want to bring it in for that one hour?

there are a few types of rentals, phv typically only allows newer cars. At least grab used to do this filtering. For these, the rental coy have a long term contract and usually they will do monthly EO change and check for stuff.

The other cars are for ad hoc rentals, this type specially when at tail end of COE are those they dun really bother. They will still stick to some basic stuff for insurance claims though

 

[hoks]

Because there is no benefits for LTA to enforce and do so, given that cars are mostly limited by the 10-years lifespan, and most car owners simply scrap after 10 years rather than renew and continue driving. So it doesn't make sense to create a system for tracking something for only up to 10 years (on average).

Or, probably because they have no means to enforce even if they laid down the rules.

Our dear LTA is a far cry from the USA DMV where cars are categorized by titles bands such as repo car, flood car, accident car, stolen car etc etc...

Even when you import a legitimate aftermarket spare part to fix up your car because the original vehicle manufacturer doesn't make it anymore, they also will reject you and think you're trying to illegally modify your vehicle, even if you have proof the aftermarket part was manufactured to spec as per original manufacturers'... The atrocity, irony and incompetence!

So don't even talk about enforcing what odometer tampering.

It is actually not difficult. All cars go thru inspection from third yr onwards. Just record the mileage and make it available to public. Britain got similar system and u can check mileage and accident claim history.

They collect so much money from car owners, and yet refuse to do anything to protect consumers. Dun tell me they dunno this blatant practice.

Our sgcarmart also removes advertised mileage when a car is sold, obviously protecting their client rather than consumer.

 

[fake_oranges]

They collect so much money from car owners, and yet refuse to do anything to protect consumers. Dun tell me they dunno this blatant practice.

Thats what CASE is for

 

[chehjin]

It is actually not difficult. All cars go thru inspection from third yr onwards. Just record the mileage and make it available to public. Britain got similar system and u can check mileage and accident claim history.

They collect so much money from car owners, and yet refuse to do anything to protect consumers. Dun tell me they dunno this blatant practice.

Our sgcarmart also removes advertised mileage when a car is sold, obviously protecting their client rather than consumer.

It’s very easy to circumvent this. Just before inspection people go change the OD. Then how? Bad actors will just do it especially if they intend to sell the car before COE is up.

 

[hoks]

Thats what CASE is for

We all noe case is toothless.

It’s very easy to circumvent this. Just before inspection people go change the OD. Then how? Bad actors will just do it especially if they intend to sell the car before COE is up.

At least make it inconvenient, what do we have now?

 

[chehjin]

We all noe case is toothless.

At least make it inconvenient, what do we have now?

I think end up will only be useless cos if u can’t trust some figures the system can dump liao.

If u seriously think about it OD is just another indicator of car use, it doesn’t measure maintenance at all. I drive 20k/year but totally don’t change EO for 5 years. Any sound also ignore. End up might be worst then phv car

I think better to not depend on others and do own diligence. Just assume all sold by 2nd hand dealers are tampered. Be mentally prepared to do up the car. Learn to watch out for common signs of wear and tear or have a trusted workshop on hand to pre inspect for u before purchase. If it’s too troublesome then stick to direct sellers or just buy new.

Overseas those cars 10-20 years, All accident free? Can’t be right. Still got people buy and use.

 

[myviowner]

It is actually not difficult. All cars go thru inspection from third yr onwards. Just record the mileage and make it available to public. Britain got similar system and u can check mileage and accident claim history.

They collect so much money from car owners, and yet refuse to do anything to protect consumers. Dun tell me they dunno this blatant practice.

Our sgcarmart also removes advertised mileage when a car is sold, obviously protecting their client rather than consumer.

Not full proof lah.. 3rd year inspection, (lets say 60 k km clocked) Mileage taken down. 5 yr before inspection, oredi clocked over 150k or even 200k km, example, perform tricks to make the nos goes down... then sell...
For models bgt from AD, call up AD, they may not want to entertain lah, unless you are the rightful owner.
End of the day, buying pre-won car, this is one of the many risks.

 

[hoks]

I think end up will only be useless cos if u can’t trust some figures the system can dump liao.

If u seriously think about it OD is just another indicator of car use, it doesn’t measure maintenance at all. I drive 20k/year but totally don’t change EO for 5 years. Any sound also ignore. End up might be worst then phv car

I think better to not depend on others and do own diligence. Just assume all sold by 2nd hand dealers are tampered. Be mentally prepared to do up the car. Learn to watch out for common signs of wear and tear or have a trusted workshop on hand to pre inspect for u before purchase. If it’s too troublesome then stick to direct sellers or just buy new.

Overseas those cars 10-20 years, All accident free? Can’t be right. Still got people buy and use.

I referring to cheating by dealers/owners, condition of cars is another matter.

Not full proof lah.. 3rd year inspection, (lets say 60 k km clocked) Mileage taken down. 5 yr before inspection, oredi clocked over 150k or even 200k km, example, perform tricks to make the nos goes down... then sell...
For models bgt from AD, call up AD, they may not want to entertain lah, unless you are the rightful owner.
End of the day, buying pre-won car, this is one of the many risks.

I agree it's not. But it's some deterrence/inconvenience. After changing a few hands some kuku gonna cheat and forgot the record from earlier and get caught red handed.

 

[chehjin]

I referring to cheating by dealers/owners, condition of cars is another matter.

I agree it's not. But it's some deterrence/inconvenience. After changing a few hands some kuku gonna cheat and forgot the record from earlier and get caught red handed.

Isn’t the original intent of knowing the OD to make a better judgement of the condition of the car? Else why does it matter?

All the dealer is going to do is say they dunno. They received the car as it is. They didn’t do anything. Then it’s up to the buyer to prove they did it. The photo from Facebook earlier posts also not much use. It only shows it’s tempered. But by who?

Even if u convince the original seller to testify for u in court. It’s still their words against each other. Unless the sale doc contains the so called original OD. But what if the seller also wan to sell at a good price and collaborate with the dealer?
and all this for how much damages? $5k $10k?
yes. It’s frustrating.

The only way the govt will actively track OD is when they wan to implement distance based ERP or similar and incorporate the tracking in the ERP unit itself and make it criminal to temper with it.

 

[hoks]

Isn’t the original intent of knowing the OD to make a better judgement of the condition of the car? Else why does it matter?

Dealers use mileage as a selling point. So it's cheating buyers money.

All the dealer is going to do is say they dunno. They received the car as it is. They didn’t do anything. Then it’s up to the buyer to prove they did it. The photo from Facebook earlier posts also not much use. It only shows it’s tempered. But by who?

Even if u convince the original seller to testify for u in court. It’s still their words against each other. Unless the sale doc contains the so called original OD. But what if the seller also wan to sell at a good price and collaborate with the dealer?
and all this for how much damages? $5k $10k?
yes. It’s frustrating.

If its public knowledge, seller can see what's the "official" mileage and walk away if its diff from actual car. Dealers/owners will also b deterred from cheating. Again, I noe its not 100%, but it's something.

The only way the govt will actively track OD is when they wan to implement distance based ERP or similar and incorporate the tracking in the ERP unit itself and make it criminal to temper with it.

This a actually a great idea.

 

[thomas00]

It’s very easy to circumvent this. Just before inspection people go change the OD. Then how? Bad actors will just do it especially if they intend to sell the car before COE is up.

It will help. Most Car owners will not adjust the odometer before they go for inspection. When they sell to car dealers, there is a limit on how much they can adjust downwards. If the last inspection show mileage of 100,000 and the current mileage is 120,000. How much can the dealers adjust downwards? LTA is plain lazy.

 

[myviowner]

Is always easy to point fingers at others..... welcome to SG.

 

[Comage]

It will help. Most Car owners will not adjust the odometer before they go for inspection. When they sell to car dealers, there is a limit on how much they can adjust downwards. If the last inspection show mileage of 100,000 and the current mileage is 120,000. How much can the dealers adjust downwards? LTA is plain lazy.

Sometimes we gotta think - why must dealer adjust odometer downwards?

Not saying dealers are guilt-free, but we all know how car owners treat their cars when they intend to sell it - they skip all the maintenance and servicing intervals as early as 1 year before they intend to sell...

Then when dealers take in these used cars in that f-up state, how do they sell it?

By tampering the mileage of course. Make it look "younger".

 

[fake_oranges]

Sometimes we gotta think - why must dealer adjust odometer downwards?

Not saying dealers are guilt-free, but we all know how car owners treat their cars when they intend to sell it - they skip all the maintenance and servicing intervals as early as 1 year before they intend to sell...

Then when dealers take in these used cars in that f-up state, how do they sell it?

By tampering the mileage of course. Make it look "younger".

is to bluff kum gong people that low milage is good

 

[superman]

Maybe we can have a regulation of No Question asked return policy within 7 days. Buyer can drive the car for 7 days and return if they don't like and pay a rental fee for the 7 days. Buyer can use the 7 days to check the car.