⚡️💻 [Official] README First! 2025 SG ISP Comparison & Latest Promo Deals! ✨

[Milo-Dino]

thanks! today I sign M1 liao
$29.50 for 3Gbps with TP Link BE230 router.

their web based recontract is very poorly developed. I dont need ONT installation they still want me to schedule a timing and charge $91+ for this. I ask the chat agent why need he say no need, just anyhow fill up will do.

some more the final cart checkout pricing differ from the contract price. They hardcode the price forgot to update.

M1 really no heart to improve...so many yrs alrdy still so jialat

U are upgrading from 1gbps to 3gbps right?

The ont needs to be changed to the new one... So probably that's they reason why need to schedule appointment.... For the person to test the signal strength in the new ont also

 

[froztheart]

Thanks! Which ISP would you recommend though?

If MR is fine with you and cost is lower, why change and go throught the hassle?
But if you are upgrading from 1Gbps to 3Gbps, then ONT still needs to be changed, though from what I see, MR i still cheaper.

 

[xiaofan]

thanks! today I sign M1 liao
$29.50 for 3Gbps with TP Link BE230 router.

their web based recontract is very poorly developed. I dont need ONT installation they still want me to schedule a timing and charge $91+ for this. I ask the chat agent why need he say no need, just anyhow fill up will do.

some more the final cart checkout pricing differ from the contract price. They hardcode the price forgot to update.

M1 really no heart to improve...so many yrs alrdy still so jialat

You need ONT installation, as the new plan uses XGS-PON ONT, the old GPON ONT cannot be used. No installation charge though.

Indeed M1 signing-up site is always confusing. It is probably better to sign up in physical M1 store.

By right they will finalize all the charges in the final checkout page. If the charges are not correct, you have to call M1 to sort out.

 

[articland05]

oh no...does that mean I'll get charged extra $91?
as a non tech user how would I know what XGS PON or GPON? all the past recontract they nv charge me that fee...

if really got this extra $91 then my effective mthly will be $33+
cham...alrdy signed liao...no escape le

I hope they will waive the fee

U are upgrading from 1gbps to 3gbps right?

The ont needs to be changed to the new one... So probably that's they reason why need to schedule appointment.... For the person to test the signal strength in the new ont also

You need ONT installation, as the new plan uses XGS-PON ONT, the old GPON ONT cannot be used. No installation charge though.

Indeed M1 signing-up site is always confusing. It is probably better to sign up in physical M1 store.

By right they will finalize all the charges in the final checkout page. If the charges are not correct, you have to call M1 to sort out.

 

[xiaofan]

oh no...does that mean I'll get charged extra $91?
as a non tech user how would I know what XGS PON or GPON? all the past recontract they nv charge me that fee...

if really got this extra $91 then my effective mthly will be $33+
cham...alrdy signed liao...no escape le

I hope they will waive the fee

As mentioned in the reply, no changes for the ONT installation.

But your old ONT needs to be changed to a new model to support the higher speed.

 

[xiaofan]

https://signup.viewqwest.com/broadband/?promo_code=SWITCHDEAL

there's also this similar price promo from singtel if anyone else is considering:
https://www.singtel.com/personal/pr...n=sep25-fibre-ga-stm-3gbps-direct-mailer-link

1. Nice one for the VQ offer.
https://signup.viewqwest.com/broadband/?promo_code=SWITCHDEAL

2. As for the Singtel 3Gbps offer at S$29.90 per month with free HB611-SGST, it is reported to be only for targeted new 3Gbps Fibre Internet sign-up with existing Singtel Mobile postpaid services.
https://www.singtel.com/personal/products-services/broadband/eform/ga-dm/3gbps-offer
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam...ments/fibre-3gbps-enhanced-plan-faq-setup.pdf

13. I am an existing Singtel Fibre Broadband customer and would like to change/recontract to the 3Gbps Enhanced Plan. Can I do so?
No, this offer is applicable for new Singtel Broadband customers with an existing Singtel Mobile plan only.

 

[Tiansheng90]

HI, im currently using singtel 1gbps network (contract expired). Recently the routers have some problems especially internet drop and high latency in games, but after the technician came down and replace with a new router. It run smoothly as usual. Now the question is my father is paying $56.30 for it.

help me with some of my question please

1. Starhub or M1?

2. What are some of the hidden cost in changing from singtel to other provider?

3. M1 is selling to SIMBA, Will I be affected in any way if I switch to m1 now?

 

[xiaofan]

Comparison of M1 and Starhub for new users.

1. The bundled routers of Starhub (HB410 for 3Gbps plan, HB710 for 5Gbps/10Gbps plans) are not as good as the one bundled by M1. Even the EB810v bundled with more expensive 10Gbps plan is not so good due to poor FW, despite the good HW spec (similar to Archer BE800).

So if you want to use the bundled router, or you want to sell them to offset the subscription price, then I tend to think M1 6Gbps plan is better than M1 10Gbps plan in this case.

If you want to use your own router, you can consider M1 10Gbps plan in that case. I tend to believe this is your use case.

2. Purely based on value --> for new users (take note Starhub charges S$2.18 per month for Digital Voice if need that).

Starhub 3Gbps plan > M1 3Gbps plan​

Starhub 5Gbps plan = M1 6Gbps plan​

Starhub 10Gbps plan < M1 10Gbps plan​

3. Starhub new home offer, or Passion Card offer
https://www.starhub.com/personal/forms/hubbing/new-homeowners.html
https://www.starhub.com/personal/promotions/passioncard.html#broadband

3 Gbps plan at S$29.55 per month with free HB410, with free S$50 voucher.
5 Gbps plan at S$38.90 per month, with free HB710, with free S$100 voucher.
10 Gbps plan at S$59.34 per month, with free EB810v, with free S$150 voucher. (Not worth it).

Starhub has a very good 10Gbps recontract offer at S$30.49 per month with free HB710, but I guess it is not applicable in this case.

4. M1 offer
3Gbps plan at S$32.90 per month, with free Archer BE230 or Asus RT-BE58U
6Gbps plan at S$38.90 per month, with free Archer BE805 or Asus RT-BE92U (for new users)
10Gbps plan at S$34.90 per month, without free router. Top up S$10 per month for Archer BE805, or S$9 per month for Asus RT-BE92U.
10Gbps all-in-one ONR plan at S$38.90 per month, with free Archer BE230 or Asus RT-BE58U (worst plan from M1, avoid this one)

 

[xiaofan]

HI, im currently using singtel 1gbps network (contract expired). Recently the routers have some problems especially internet drop and high latency in games, but after the technician came down and replace with a new router. It run smoothly as usual. Now the question is my father is paying $56.30 for it.

help me with some of my question please

1. Starhub or M1?

2. What are some of the hidden cost in changing from singtel to other provider?

3. M1 is selling to SIMBA, Will I be affected in any way if I switch to m1 now?

1) Please refer to the post above for the comparison of M1 vs Starhub. And please read the posts in the first page.

You may also want to check with SingTel to see which recontract deals you can get. For example, S$39.90 per month recontract offer for SingTel 3Gbps plan with two HB611-SGST (plus ONR) may be a good option for you.

2) Starhub charges S$2.18 per month if you need digital voice. Porting out SingTel Digital Voice to M1 and Starhub may incur more overlapping cost.

Starhub and M1 typically use ONT (more flexible). SingTel uses ONR for all the current offered plans. That may cause different network configurations.

For example, for users who live in newer HDB BTO flats, you may save one router in the DB box if you use SingTel as you can put SingTel ONR in the DB Box as the main wired router.

3) I do not think it will have real impact to most of the users.

 

[0nePunchm@n]

oh no...does that mean I'll get charged extra $91?
as a non tech user how would I know what XGS PON or GPON? all the past recontract they nv charge me that fee...

if really got this extra $91 then my effective mthly will be $33+
cham...alrdy signed liao...no escape le

I hope they will waive the fee

Their CSO said the $91.68 ONT installation fee is waived. Looking into their broadband T&C it says:

Description of Charges	Charges (Inclusive of 9% GST)
Fibre Registration	$61.04
ONT Activation Charge	$91.68

On each plan's page you'll also see

• Free registration (worth $61.04)
• Free ONT Activation for all time slots (worth up to $123.41

It seems it's all waived. The only part that's slightly off is that the online order process calls the $91.68 fee "ONT installation fee", whereas in their T&C it's called "ONT Activation Charge".

Anyway I've re-contracted (paid 0 upfront), and it says whatever extra fees where applicable will be reflected in the first bill. Hope I don't get a nasty surprise then.

 

[ssuhuiii]

Hi, for the router is it possible to put in the bedroom instead of living room as I wish to connect Lan cable to my PC for faster speed.

 

[xiaofan]

Hi, for the router is it possible to put in the bedroom instead of living room as I wish to connect Lan cable to my PC for faster speed.

Please read this FAQ in the sticky thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...home-networking.6653421/page-3#post-149431568

One of the FAQ in this forum.
How to put the main wireless router out of DB box in the central location and keep room LAN ports functional?

 

[ssuhuiii]

Please read this FAQ in the sticky thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...home-networking.6653421/page-3#post-149431568

One of the FAQ in this forum.
How to put the main wireless router out of DB box in the central location and keep room LAN ports functional?

Wa abit chim for me.
Means main router put living room and wireless AP put bedroom? This two device don't need interconnect with each other?
Can just tell the installation guy then he install for me?

 

[iosnewbie]

Thanks to the forum

1) Please refer to the post above for the comparison of M1 vs Starhub. And please read the posts in the first page.

You may also want to check with SingTel to see which recontract deals you can get. For example, S$39.90 per month recontract offer for SingTel 3Gbps plan with two HB611-SGST (plus ONR) may be a good option for you.

2) Starhub charges S$2.18 per month if you need digital voice. Porting out SingTel Digital Voice to M1 and Starhub may incur more overlapping cost.

Starhub and M1 typically use ONT (more flexible). SingTel uses ONR for all the current offered plans. That may cause different network configurations.

For example, for users who live in newer HDB BTO flats, you may save one router in the DB box if you use SingTel as you can put SingTel ONR in the DB Box as the main wired router.

3) I do not think it will have real impact to most of the users.

@xiaofan , thanks for this sharing. My old 1GBps ST homebrand plan is expiring soon and based on your description of the best availaable offer on the 3GBps plan, I called up 1688 and asked for the offer to include another HB611, which the CSO simply said "let me check for you" and promptly agreed after a 5 sec pause. I was told the new 24mth contract will also includes 12 mths free Amazon Prime and 12 mths free Disney+.

Edit: I was also told by the CSO the offer also includes a $240 NTUC voucher which will be sent to me via snail mail 2 months after my recontract date starts. I called up to double confirm since this NTUC voucher wasn't explicitly listed in the password-protected PDF recontract form ST sent via email.

For the HB611 router, is it possible to configure VPN server on it so that I can remotely access my home PCs/NAS while I'm outside?

 

[xiaofan]

Thanks to the forum

@xiaofan , thanks for this sharing. My old 1GBps ST homebrand plan is expiring soon and based on your description of the best availaable offer on the 3GBps plan, I called up 1688 and asked for the offer to include another HB611, which the CSO simply said "let me check for you" and promptly agreed after a 5 sec pause. I was told the new 24mth contract will also includes 12 mths free Amazon Prime and 12 mths free Disney+.

Edit: I was also told by the CSO the offer also includes a $240 NTUC voucher which will be sent to me via snail mail 2 months after my recontract date starts. I called up to double confirm since this NTUC voucher wasn't explicitly listed in the password-protected PDF recontract form ST sent via email.

For the HB611 router, is it possible to configure VPN server on it so that I can remotely access my home PCs/NAS while I'm outside?

1) For HB611-SGST VPN server option, it does support OpenVPN VPN server and IPSec VPN server. You have to confirm with other users or Singtel whether it works well or not. It may not work well, similar to the report for EB810v,

2) I will strongly recommend to use another router and not HB611-SGST, if you care for VPN server function.

One option is TP-Link Archer BE805 (about S$300 or less for BNIB unit, dumped by M1 users). Wireguard VPN server performance is much better than OpenVPN server.

Another option is Asus RT-BE92U (about S$300 or less for BNIB unit, dumped by M1 users). It has more FW features than Archer BE805, but with lower HW spec.

Lower cost option --> TP-Link Archer BE230 or Asus RT-BE58U, about S$80, no 6GHz WiFi, dumped by M1 users.

3) Reference: TP-Link staff may not be able to support service provider models well, including TP-Link HB810/HB611-SGST (Singtel) and EB810v/HB710/HB410 (Starhub).

There is a report that EB810v (Starhub issued router) OpenVPN server does not work.

Cannot access LAN through OpenVPN connection
https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/796908
(same as earlier reported issue -- https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/661992).

Answer from TP-Link Support Staff.
EB810v is a customized device specifically designed for local Service Providers. Its software is tailored to meet the unique requirements of these providers, ensuring alignment with their specific needs. While our technical support team is adept at providing general guidance and suggestions for products with standard, generic firmware. However, due to the specialized nature of the firmware on your device, our ability to provide troubleshooting may be limited.

 

[xiaofan]

Wa abit chim for me.
Means main router put living room and wireless AP put bedroom? This two device don't need interconnect with each other?
Can just tell the installation guy then he install for me?

1) No, unless you want to stay with Singtel and use unbridged ONR. I think you want to go with M1/Starhub (ONT options) due to the poor routing to Malaysis from Singtel.

Your idea will not work as the wireless AP will have no direct wired connection to the main wireless router. In that case, you are using wireless backhaul and it may not work. Even if it works, the performance is not as good as using Ethernet backhaul.

Option 1 is easier for you if you want the LAN ports in the room to work. That means to put the main router in the DB box. Your wireless AP can be put in the living room or bedroom. Ethernet Backhaul is used in this case.

You may have to post your floor plan to see which way to go, with details of the Fibre Terminal Point, LAN ports in the rooms, intended placement location of the main router and wireless AP.

Option 2 is only possible if you have two LAN ports next to each other in the living room (or the place you want to put the main wireless router).

Option 3 is only for power users who know about VLAN.

For Singtel/WC users who use unbridged ONR, Option 1 is easier since the ONR is the main router and can be put in the DB Box. That is why some users who like ONR. But then you have to live with the problems of ONR and other problems with Singtel/WC.

2) Usually the installer will not help much other than the default installation.

3) More about mesh solution from Dongknows: mesh, Wireless Backhaul vs Ethernet Backhaul
https://dongknows.com/mesh-wi-fi-system-explained/

 

[xiaofan]

Updated a few posts in the first page, mainly more info about Digital Voice from all the ISPs, as well as some cleanups to remove outdated info and links.

 

[xiaofan]

One example that Singtel international routing is not good -- high latency to Malaysia, bad for gaming

It is going through HK or even US and then to Malaysia.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...ng-when-connected-to-malaysia-server.7162617/

 

[xiaofan]

Good reference here with regard to Singtel -- tough to get Singtel to change their peering policy and optimize the route

Historically and in my personal experience with ST long ago, not really. Knowing ST business ethics I doubt they would have changed since then. If you get a response, it will likely be another back and forth with a clueless customer service rep. And you lucky they may finally forward your feedback to the network engineers. (Not sure if anyone else has any success in getting ST to make routing changes and want to share your experience here?)

Even if ST do resolve their egress routing issue going to USA or HK, the routes coming from Time to ST likely still route to HK which will bring your ping to 40ms at times, which ST will claim they cannot control. Although Time can solve the routing issues towards ST by forcing their routes out of MY directly instead of HK, this all stems from a very problematic network configuration on ST side that makes it hard for other networks to determine the fastest route. It has been eons but nothing was really improved about this.

Even so, we are not really sure if your game is really hosted on Time network. It will be nonstop chase to get ST to fix the routing as you may connect to other SEA game servers that may have the same issue. Rinse and repeat.

What you can do now while you are still stuck on ST is find a VPN provider and connect to their SG servers before gaming. But again note that even some VPN providers have the latency issue with ST for the same reasons.

With this, I appeal to all customers and potential customers of Singtel or Whizcomms who may be reading this thread to reconsider if you want to be stuck with this crap network for 2 years Times have changed, time to stop thinking of Singtel as a "high end" and the only reliable provider just because they are the biggest and oldest.

 

[xiaofan]

Another good reference

If you get decent pings to other places then it's not your router. A fault with your line or router would give you high latency to everywhere other than your own local devices.

This is most likely down to bad peering by singtel, something which has been covered many many times on these forums. In general singtel try to make money from peering and charge other providers to peer with them, whereas the other local providers have open peering policies and will peer with each other for free. Some providers (especially foreign ones) refuse to pay singtel for peering. As a result, on average singtel has higher latency than all of the other options.

Most likely singtel don't peer directly with time, and thus your traffic is routing somewhere far away and back, you would be able to confirm this by performing a traceroute. 300ms is very high, so it might be going to another continent and back - eg latency to europe is usually under 200ms.

Also most networks in malaysia use IPv6, singtel still do not provide this by default. You will often see better latency over v6 and worst case you have 2 options to use which might take different routes.

Finally if you're playing a game or using a remote desktop application you need to confirm wether the software is making a direct p2p connection between you and your friend, or if it's being relayed through a third server hosted elsewhere. The prevalence of NAT has resulted in a lot of applications doing this, so you might find that your routing direct to time is actually just fine, but your communication with your friend is being routed via a server in the USA and hence high latency.

NAT or CGNAT (not sure if time use CGNAT?) could prevent direct peering and force the traffic via a third party server. Time most definitely have IPv6, so you would be able to connect directly that way assuming the software you use supports it.

TL;DR: the cause is either bad peering, or a third party server to work around NAT