*Official* Shiny Things club

[tankahkee]

Hi!

I have $3k per month to invest.

Thinking of $2k in OCBC Blue Chip Plan for the ETF and $1k for the Bonds in POSB.

Is this method the lowest in terms of fees for my case?

 

[wealth_farmer]

Hi!

I have $3k per month to invest.

Thinking of $2k in OCBC Blue Chip Plan for the ETF and $1k for the Bonds in POSB.

Is this method the lowest in terms of fees for my case?

Yes, I think so. You will incur $6 commission with BCIP for your $2k amount (0.30% or $5 minimum commission), but still need to include the SGX fees and GST; should come to about $7+ commission per month? Still cheaper than the $10 minimum you will incur with SCB.

However, bear in mind that with SCB, once you qualify for Priority banking (with $200k AUM), your trading charge is 0.18% with no minimum commission. If you foresee you can consistently and even increase your investment amount, you can consider going with SCB. The good thing about BCIP is that it is an automated plan so you just set-and-forget.

The other one you can consider is DBS Vickers, but that is on a promotion basis. Go check it out, it's the Cash Upfront trading account with $10 minimum commission but with additional $5 off for trades done online. Of course, they can end this promotion any time, but if you have CDP already and don't mind fragmented accounts, might as well make hay while the sun shines.

ABF Bond ETF for that amount, I'd go with POSB-IS like you.

Out of curiosity, are you not allocating any of your investment to a global index tracking ETF such as IWDA?

 

[kiddykong]

Yes, I think so. You will incur $6 commission with BCIP for your $2k amount (0.30% or $5 minimum commission), but still need to include the SGX fees and GST; should come to about $7+ commission per month? Still cheaper than the $10 minimum you will incur with SCB.

However, bear in mind that with SCB, once you qualify for Priority banking (with $200k AUM), your trading charge is 0.18% with no minimum commission. If you foresee you can consistently and even increase your investment amount, you can consider going with SCB. The good thing about BCIP is that it is an automated plan so you just set-and-forget.

The other one you can consider is DBS Vickers, but that is on a promotion basis. Go check it out, it's the Cash Upfront trading account with $10 minimum commission but with additional $5 off for trades done online. Of course, they can end this promotion any time, but if you have CDP already and don't mind fragmented accounts, might as well make hay while the sun shines.

ABF Bond ETF for that amount, I'd go with POSB-IS like you.

Out of curiosity, are you not allocating any of your investment to a global index tracking ETF such as IWDA?

am trying to take advantage of the free 3 trades too. however, how should i check the holding/sell for DBS VS? im looking at their website https://www.dbsvickers.com/ (apologies no direct link to the tab)

anyway for future trades, getting overseas equities like iwda should be done through IB. correct?

 

[wealth_farmer]

am trying to take advantage of the free 3 trades too. however, how should i check the holding/sell for DBS VS? im looking at their website https://www.dbsvickers.com/ (apologies no direct link to the tab)

anyway for future trades, getting overseas equities like iwda should be done through IB. correct?

Your holdings would be reflected in your CDP account, and not with DBS-V.

You can certainly use IBKR to manage your IWDA purchases, with the caveat that you consider the points that we frequently raise on this thread regarding purchase frequency, purchase amount and other personal idiosyncratic preferences.

 

[tankahkee]

Thank you!

I don't have a CDP account. But more importantly, I am a fan of set-and-forget. So I'll stick to the intial idea.

I don't quite understand the steps and process to get access to IWDA. Maybe when the process becomes as friction free and easy as OCBC and POSB, then I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks again!

Yes, I think so. You will incur $6 commission with BCIP for your $2k amount (0.30% or $5 minimum commission), but still need to include the SGX fees and GST; should come to about $7+ commission per month? Still cheaper than the $10 minimum you will incur with SCB.

However, bear in mind that with SCB, once you qualify for Priority banking (with $200k AUM), your trading charge is 0.18% with no minimum commission. If you foresee you can consistently and even increase your investment amount, you can consider going with SCB. The good thing about BCIP is that it is an automated plan so you just set-and-forget.

The other one you can consider is DBS Vickers, but that is on a promotion basis. Go check it out, it's the Cash Upfront trading account with $10 minimum commission but with additional $5 off for trades done online. Of course, they can end this promotion any time, but if you have CDP already and don't mind fragmented accounts, might as well make hay while the sun shines.

ABF Bond ETF for that amount, I'd go with POSB-IS like you.

Out of curiosity, are you not allocating any of your investment to a global index tracking ETF such as IWDA?

 

[soulblader_89]

Hey guys,

I am new here, I start reading from mid way of the thread, maybe 150 pages ? didn't read from the very beginning...actually I gt a few noob questions

1) Where to get or buy the book uh? I heard u guys discussing some "shiny book", what is the book name?

2) For a newbie investment, one month around $300 to spare, so should I start from buying ETF through Standard Chartered online account?

3) what is the safest way to invest for now? I am just a 29 years old guy, just started working nia...I just hope to earn some extra cash to spend every month. Do I need to check the stock market everyday or look at it once a month?

Actually I really dk a lot of thing, I hear you guys talk abt IWDA, dk what is it

 

[Maeda_Toshiie]

Hey guys,

I am new here, I start reading from mid way of the thread, maybe 150 pages ? didn't read from the very beginning...actually I gt a few noob questions

1) Where to get or buy the book uh? I heard u guys discussing some "shiny book", what is the book name?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rich-by-retirement-invest-smart-retire-wealthy-finance-book#/

2) For a newbie investment, one month around $300 to spare, so should I start from buying ETF through Standard Chartered online account?

At $300 per month, buy STI ETF (G3B) and ABF (A35) here: https://www.posb.com.sg/personal/investments/investing-in-funds/invest-saver

3) what is the safest way to invest for now?

Buy ETFs. See above and IWDA:LN (or VWRL:LN).

I am just a 29 years old guy, just started working nia...

Save up an emergency fund of >= 6 months of expenses first before putting money into investments.

I just hope to earn some extra cash to spend every month.

This is not for punting or trading stocks. This takes a long view on the market to retire. It's not for making kopi money either.

Do I need to check the stock market everyday or look at it once a month?

See above.

Actually I really dk a lot of thing, I hear you guys talk abt IWDA, dk what is it

Short story: a London listed (Ireland domiciled) ETF that invests in more than a thousand companies across the developed world. The reason why we should buy a London listed (Ireland domiciled), is for tax efficiency for US non-resident tax aliens, which refers to most people on this island except for US citizens/ green card holders.

Gory details: https://www.ishares.com/lu/individual/en/products/251882/ishares-msci-world-ucits-etf-acc-fund

 

[soulblader_89]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rich-by-retirement-invest-smart-retire-wealthy-finance-book#/



At $300 per month, buy STI ETF (G3B) and ABF (A35) here: https://www.posb.com.sg/personal/investments/investing-in-funds/invest-saver



Buy ETFs. See above and IWDA:LN (or VWRL:LN).



Save up an emergency fund of >= 6 months of expenses first before putting money into investments.



This is not for punting or trading stocks. This takes a long view on the market to retire. It's not for making kopi money either.



See above.



Short story: a London listed (Ireland domiciled) ETF that invests in more than a thousand companies across the developed world. The reason why we should buy a London listed (Ireland domiciled), is for tax efficiency for US non-resident tax aliens, which refers to most people on this island except for US citizens/ green card holders.

Gory details: https://www.ishares.com/lu/individual/en/products/251882/ishares-msci-world-ucits-etf-acc-fund

Thanks for the detail information!!!!

 

[Shiny Things]

____________________________________________
How would you compare this measure between a low-volatility stock like AGG, and a high-volatility stock like NFLX?
- I used the same underlying to measure the OTM/ days to expiry.
If for different underlying, it makes total sense not to use the same measure.

My point is that it seems like you're trying to measure the risk of exercise. And if you want to do that, you might as well use delta as a proxy for the risk of exercise, because it is comparable across underlyings, and it's an industry standard risk measure.

- Ok, I kinda get it but shouldn't the time to expiry also mean that there is enough time for it to get ITM and be assigned if I get the direction 100% wrong ?

I don't understand the question. If you get the direction 100% wrong, the option's going to go deep in the money whether it's a short-date or long-date option.

I do understand Greeks a little but sometimes I think it makes me read too much into it that it feels very academic .
Who calculates the Greeks anyway on IB?

Yeah, it's not academic, and I say that with eight years running an options book under my belt. If you're going to take options trading seriously, instead of just selling puts and praying that you don't get assigned, you'll want to get a handle on how the greeks work.

IB calculates the greeks. You can implement the pricing algorithm yourself (the googlejuice you want is "equity option binomial tree"), but honestly it's too much work; just take IB's numbers.

Just the plain old chart to see the historical drops or rises in any timespan for the etf to determine the strikes , vix to determine when is a good time to sell, annualised yield for the various prices to see the value , MA for sentiment reading , RSI for over sold/bought , and worst case scenario and holy water for divine intervention
______________________________________________

Is there any other way to improve on the execution using the Greeks?

Greeks aren't going to affect your execution; they're a measure of risk. Are you actually asking how to get better prices on your execution, or are you asking "how do I reduce the chance that I get assigned when I sell an option"?

 

[Shiny Things]

Thanks Shiny, but downside is the dividends are not reinvested :-(

Yeah, which isn't perfect; thanks kehyi for finding the (dividend-reinvesting) SPDR equivalent. (Though, again, that one does have India in it; I'd lean toward the IFFF one even if it doesn't reinvest dividends, just because India's so darn pricey right now.)

Hey guys,

I am new here, I start reading from mid way of the thread, maybe 150 pages ? didn't read from the very beginning...actually I gt a few noob questions

No worries at all. I say this a lot, but everyone was a noob once; it's on us veterans to help out new investors and get you started.

2) For a newbie investment, one month around $300 to spare, so should I start from buying ETF through Standard Chartered online account?

You'll want to look at POSB Invest-Saver - it's the cheapest way to buy a couple of nice, sensible ETFs that own Singaporean stocks and bonds. It's worth having a Stanchart account as well, for access to international stock markets, because there are plenty of companies outside Singapore that are worth owning as well.

3) what is the safest way to invest for now? I am just a 29 years old guy, just started working nia...I just hope to earn some extra cash to spend every month. Do I need to check the stock market everyday or look at it once a month?

Oh god no, once a month or even less is fine. You've got better things to do than worry about the market every day; some days it'll go down, some days it'll go up, some days it might even go down by a lot, but the best thing you can do is get into a habit of investing regularly, even if the amounts are only small.

And as for "safest", I'm going to push back on that a little bit. You're 29; this is money that you won't need for at least a few years, maybe even until you retire. If you invest in "safe" things, you tend to get low returns (anything that claims it's "safe" but offers a high return is probably a scam); you can afford to invest in things that are a little bit riskier, because you can wait out the swings and roundabouts for higher returns further down the road.

Stock ETFs are a good starting point - they're a good balance between risky single-stocks and boring, safe bank deposits. It's not a guaranteed road to riches, but it's a good starting point for investing and getting comfortable with investing.

 

[Kyubi]

Deposit 2k into SCB to buy IWDA.

Deposit 3k into POSB. Start RSP with amount of 2k for STI ETF, and 1k for ABF Bond ETF. After the deduction is made on the 15th, you will want to remember to reduce the monthly subscription amount to your regular non-lump sum monthly DCA amount.

That's it, I think.

Hi ST and wealth farmer

ok. so when you say reduce the monthly subscription amount when I start off with the lump sum for that allocation, means each month I am actually topping up eg. using my savings from salary and take 200 - 500 for monthly top up? or I can just choose to leave it and come back for rebalancing after a year or so?

 

[soulblader_89]

Yeah, which isn't perfect; thanks kehyi for finding the (dividend-reinvesting) SPDR equivalent. (Though, again, that one does have India in it; I'd lean toward the IFFF one even if it doesn't reinvest dividends, just because India's so darn pricey right now.)



No worries at all. I say this a lot, but everyone was a noob once; it's on us veterans to help out new investors and get you started.



You'll want to look at POSB Invest-Saver - it's the cheapest way to buy a couple of nice, sensible ETFs that own Singaporean stocks and bonds. It's worth having a Stanchart account as well, for access to international stock markets, because there are plenty of companies outside Singapore that are worth owning as well.



Oh god no, once a month or even less is fine. You've got better things to do than worry about the market every day; some days it'll go down, some days it'll go up, some days it might even go down by a lot, but the best thing you can do is get into a habit of investing regularly, even if the amounts are only small.

And as for "safest", I'm going to push back on that a little bit. You're 29; this is money that you won't need for at least a few years, maybe even until you retire. If you invest in "safe" things, you tend to get low returns (anything that claims it's "safe" but offers a high return is probably a scam); you can afford to invest in things that are a little bit riskier, because you can wait out the swings and roundabouts for higher returns further down the road.

Stock ETFs are a good starting point - they're a good balance between risky single-stocks and boring, safe bank deposits. It's not a guaranteed road to riches, but it's a good starting point for investing and getting comfortable with investing.

so it is recommended that before I start my first investment, it is advise that I prepare 6 month of my monthly salary as saving first right?

My take home pay is only $2800, what is the amount u recommend I do investment every month? assuming I only use POSB investsaver


What is the minimum amount u recommend for doing investment using POSB investsaver? I understand that you mention $100 is a bit too low, and the there will be a fee of $10 per month

 

[Eternit]

Hi Shiny and the pros, I have been putting 300 into POSB invest saver every month for some time and it has around 7K inside now. I still have money to spare so thinking of opening a SCB account to buy IWDA and other international ETF,

Knowing that they charge fees differently so it's not wise to put in some every month like POSB, but a lump sum? What's the recommended frequency and amount say if I have 6K per year to spent on it? 1k per 2 months? 3k per half year? 6k at one go? Thanks all

 

[blackiller]

Hi all pros, anyone invest in Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund? This is a accumulating fund that includes EM. This would be like VWRD but reinvested. Would this be better than IWDA? The only thing is higher TER. Also is VEU or VEA be a good holding instead of global ETFs if I already have 10% in Berkshire B stock and another 10% in US-related sectorial ETF? The TER on those are extremely low as well.

 

[revhappy]

Hi Shiny, you have mentioned a few times already that India is expensive and Singapore is cheap. With all due respect, I think there are very good reasons why something is cheap and expensive and that too over a long term. Short term there can be aberrations. But India has always been expensive and it remains expensive. Singapore, I don't know much, why it remains cheap. I wouldn't avoid India because it is expensive, but I won't go overboard either. The MSCI allocation I don't think does enough justice to EMs, they have their reasons, but I don't agree with their 2% allocation to India.

Sent from Xiaomi REDMI NOTE 4 using GAGT

 

[soulblader_89]

Hi Shiny and the pros, I have been putting 300 into POSB invest saver every month for some time and it has around 7K inside now. I still have money to spare so thinking of opening a SCB account to buy IWDA and other international ETF,

Knowing that they charge fees differently so it's not wise to put in some every month like POSB, but a lump sum? What's the recommended frequency and amount say if I have 6K per year to spent on it? 1k per 2 months? 3k per half year? 6k at one go? Thanks all

I want to know this also

Up for u, the IWDA thing like very interesting, everyone like buying it

 

[sgdividends]

My point is that it seems like you're trying to measure the risk of exercise. And if you want to do that, you might as well use delta as a proxy for the risk of exercise, because it is comparable across underlyings, and it's an industry standard risk measure.



I don't understand the question. If you get the direction 100% wrong, the option's going to go deep in the money whether it's a short-date or long-date option.



Yeah, it's not academic, and I say that with eight years running an options book under my belt. If you're going to take options trading seriously, instead of just selling puts and praying that you don't get assigned, you'll want to get a handle on how the greeks work.

IB calculates the greeks. You can implement the pricing algorithm yourself (the googlejuice you want is "equity option binomial tree"), but honestly it's too much work; just take IB's numbers.



Greeks aren't going to affect your execution; they're a measure of risk. Are you actually asking how to get better prices on your execution, or are you asking "how do I reduce the chance that I get assigned when I sell an option"?

Hi Shiny,

Thanks for the insightful reply.

Actually, both question is what i would like to ask.
1)How to get better prices on your execution?
2) How do I reduce the chance that I get assigned when I sell an option?

Do you know of any good websites written by people who actually trade these stuff something like a blog and not those generic ones like investopedia?

 

[swordsly]

Hello.
Not sure if this question has been asked before but...

When it comes to setting up portfolio allocations, I know it is usually stocks X% and bonds Y%.
In this case, does the bonds portion also include cash-on-hand (e.g. savings account, emergency fund)?
If not, then does anyone actually include a 3rd portion in the allocation (stocks X%, bonds Y%, cash Z%)? If so, anyone has any guidelines on it that I can study on?

 

[wealth_farmer]

Hi ST and wealth farmer

ok. so when you say reduce the monthly subscription amount when I start off with the lump sum for that allocation, means each month I am actually topping up eg. using my savings from salary and take 200 - 500 for monthly top up? or I can just choose to leave it and come back for rebalancing after a year or so?

Yes, you set aside monthly (and consistently) the amount you can set aside for investment and you drip-feed it into your portfolio every month, come hell or high water. This is dollar cost averaging.

You can also choose to leave it and come back and rebalance after a year, but that would be an unusual wealth-building strategy. Unless you need to divert all your funds towards saving for a property perhaps? But even then, I'd still set aside a small amount for investment. This is because time is your friend.

so it is recommended that before I start my first investment, it is advise that I prepare 6 month of my monthly salary as saving first right?

My take home pay is only $2800, what is the amount u recommend I do investment every month? assuming I only use POSB investsaver


What is the minimum amount u recommend for doing investment using POSB investsaver? I understand that you mention $100 is a bit too low, and the there will be a fee of $10 per month

Not six months of your monthly salary, but six months of your monthly expenses. That's why I always recommend that serious savers track their expenses using an app. But otherwise, you should guesstimate and set six months aside in a liquid, capital-protected account. The purpose for these funds is not returns, so don't invest it. The main criteria is that it must maintain its value. So put it into a bank account, or SSBs.

Only you yourself can decide what amount you can set aside monthly for investments. Holding power is the key. Don't be too garang and set aside too high an amount. Don't deprive yourself just because you want to invest more. Everyone is different. Some need to provide more for parents, some people don't have girlfriend (yet), or don't have children (yet). Life circumstances change, and your investment amount will change as well. You must be honest with yourself. Try hard, but not too hard.

$100 for POSB-IS is not too low, and its not $10 commission per month. Flat 1% of investment amount for Nikko ETI ETF, and flat 0.5% of investment amount for ABF Bond ETF. So if you're gunning for STI ETF with $100, the commission is $1 per month.

Hi Shiny and the pros, I have been putting 300 into POSB invest saver every month for some time and it has around 7K inside now. I still have money to spare so thinking of opening a SCB account to buy IWDA and other international ETF,

Knowing that they charge fees differently so it's not wise to put in some every month like POSB, but a lump sum? What's the recommended frequency and amount say if I have 6K per year to spent on it? 1k per 2 months? 3k per half year? 6k at one go? Thanks all

You want to solve for optimal brokerage spent against reaping the benefits of the DCA process. Investing monthly would be truer to the DCA spirit, but will also entail more brokerage, which would not be optimal if your investment amount is not large. Based on previous conversations on this issue in this thread and for your amount, I think the consensus was every three months is fine. So in your case, that would be $1,500 every three months via SCB. This is, of course, subject to change if brokers' fee schedules change.

Hi all pros, anyone invest in Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund? This is a accumulating fund that includes EM. This would be like VWRD but reinvested. Would this be better than IWDA? The only thing is higher TER. Also is VEU or VEA be a good holding instead of global ETFs if I already have 10% in Berkshire B stock and another 10% in US-related sectorial ETF? The TER on those are extremely low as well.

I think Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund is only for institutional investors. I checked the website and the minimum initial investment amount is GBP 100k. Not sure if this is the same fund you're referring to?

VEU and VEA are domiciled in the US, and you will incur a 30% withholding tax on dividends. It's usually recommended for Singapore tax residents that we invest in ETFs or funds domiciled in Ireland and trading on LSE/Europe.

I want to know this also

Up for u, the IWDA thing like very interesting, everyone like buying it

Please don't think that this is "very interesting". Speaking from personal experience, the way of investing recommended here works, but the major downside is that it is very boring. You need to accept that, and don't get worked up about it. For e.g. you will never be able to go into your local kopitiam and brag to other people how satki your portfolio is. Banish that thought, and you will have a better chance of sticking to this strategy long-term, over the market upswings and downturns, and let all the other actively managed funds do the hard work for you.

 

[alexilaiho]

Yes, you set aside monthly (and consistently) the amount you can set aside for investment and you drip-feed it into your portfolio every month, come hell or high water. This is dollar cost averaging.

You can also choose to leave it and come back and rebalance after a year, but that would be an unusual wealth-building strategy. Unless you need to divert all your funds towards saving for a property perhaps? But even then, I'd still set aside a small amount for investment. This is because time is your friend.



Not six months of your monthly salary, but six months of your monthly expenses. That's why I always recommend that serious savers track their expenses using an app. But otherwise, you should guesstimate and set six months aside in a liquid, capital-protected account. The purpose for these funds is not returns, so don't invest it. The main criteria is that it must maintain its value. So put it into a bank account, or SSBs.

Only you yourself can decide what amount you can set aside monthly for investments. Holding power is the key. Don't be too garang and set aside too high an amount. Don't deprive yourself just because you want to invest more. Everyone is different. Some need to provide more for parents, some people don't have girlfriend (yet), or don't have children (yet). Life circumstances change, and your investment amount will change as well. You must be honest with yourself. Try hard, but not too hard.

$100 for POSB-IS is not too low, and its not $10 commission per month. Flat 1% of investment amount for Nikko ETI ETF, and flat 0.5% of investment amount for ABF Bond ETF. So if you're gunning for STI ETF with $100, the commission is $1 per month.



You want to solve for optimal brokerage spent against reaping the benefits of the DCA process. Investing monthly would be truer to the DCA spirit, but will also entail more brokerage, which would not be optimal if your investment amount is not large. Based on previous conversations on this issue in this thread and for your amount, I think the consensus was every three months is fine. So in your case, that would be $1,500 every three months via SCB. This is, of course, subject to change if brokers' fee schedules change.



I think Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund is only for institutional investors. I checked the website and the minimum initial investment amount is GBP 100k. Not sure if this is the same fund you're referring to?

VEU and VEA are domiciled in the US, and you will incur a 30% withholding tax on dividends. It's usually recommended for Singapore tax residents that we invest in ETFs or funds domiciled in Ireland and trading on LSE/Europe.



Please don't think that this is "very interesting". Speaking from personal experience, the way of investing recommended here works, but the major downside is that it is very boring. You need to accept that, and don't get worked up about it. For e.g. you will never be able to go into your local kopitiam and brag to other people how satki your portfolio is. Banish that thought, and you will have a better chance of sticking to this strategy long-term, over the market upswings and downturns, and let all the other actively managed funds do the hard work for you.

whats the optimal SGD to put in SCB IWDA at anyone time to maximise usage of fixed transaction.forex costs?