Official Shiny Things thread—Part III

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ngsngn

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@swan02, thank you for your detailed explanation. Based on what i see from my robo earlier which has gold component, i saw the % value increase when equities drop that help cushion the overall loss back in Feb/March period, hence the impression of stock down, gold up. vice versa.

Regarding point 4 of "s&p 500 May look expensive. But there are **** loads value stocks still very cheap. Even if tech corrects, then why can’t those value stocks do well ? Rotation do occur, that’s the beauty of diversification."
Are you referring to the index rebalancing the weightage given, since now tech is majority. Or are you referring to purchasing individual stocks that are currently cheap inside the sp500 index?

Regarding the option of me going into MBH with the remaining warchest for for investment, by selling the bond every month say for 5k in usd(i assume) to purchase equitites, how would i earn the bond dividends? since the dividends are on a yearly basis? By the end of say 1year, my 93% bonds would probably be left with 10-20% bonds, i assume they will calculate accordingly?

@cflee, would like to check the amount that you mentioned for SC/FSMone/IBKR, are those in USD$ or SGD$?
 

cfleee

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@cflee, would like to check the amount that you mentioned for SC/FSMone/IBKR, are those in USD$ or SGD$?

The inputs to the spreadsheet are in SGD (and so should all the intermediate figures if I got it right), as I think most of us here are paid and budget in SGD. Please don't take those numbers as-is though as it's just meant as quick illustration -- figure out what you want to invest in and the proportions, and then run the numbers for yourself!

Will you also be investing other sums regularly during or after this initial period of investing your lump sum? That may impact the decision a little.
 

ngsngn

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The inputs to the spreadsheet are in SGD (and so should all the intermediate figures if I got it right), as I think most of us here are paid and budget in SGD. Please don't take those numbers as-is though as it's just meant as quick illustration -- figure out what you want to invest in and the proportions, and then run the numbers for yourself!

Will you also be investing other sums regularly during or after this initial period of investing your lump sum? That may impact the decision a little.
noted for SGD. I think after the initial investment of lump sum via DCA over 12-14months, i probably would contribute $1ksgd per month.

If i understand correctly, based on your v2 sheet looking at 'Effective cost with estimated opportunity cost' even when there's >100kUSD in IBKR, seems like SC Priority is the cheapest at 0.19%, since currently i can meet the 200ksgd requirement. Just thinking now should i close off IBKR instead after just opening 17th July? Then this means i should batch up and invest quarterly for international equity + local equity/local bond since after that my monthly is only around 1ksgd?
 

swan02

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1. Be careful to be aware that In a financial crisis that happened in mar. All asset classes correlated and crashed together. But u also need to be aware they crashed to a different degree. so bonds may crash 2 percent does not mean u can’t sell bonds and buy up stocks. In fact in a crash, u will be buying up stocks and selling bonds or gold when rebalancing as u would be upping your equity allocation by buying it with cash, bonds and gold back to your desired asset allocation. Quality bonds are better hedges of stocks than gold. But gold may at small quantities are ok hedge to bonds and stocks. Argument for gold is more apparent due to low bond interest.

2. a bond etf is made up of its NAV. prices can deviate a lot from it’s NAV but will eventually return close to it. It’s NAV is made up of its cash dividend component and reflects in its NAV and hopefully in the price. Price is determined by buyers and sellers and try not to buy or sell wayyy off its NAV. In other words, when u sell your mbh, your dividends is already factored into the price as long u don’t be stupid to sell way off its NAV.

3. Correct, I was referring to the quarterly rebalancing of s&p 500 and to my knowledge the market weighted components may also be periodically adjusted ? I’m not 100 percent certain and need someone to ascertain.

4. As already mentioned. Gold can go down together with stocks and bonds. eg usd strengthens relatively to sgd and gold due to interest rate hike expectations, hence gold drops but in sgd value may or may not drop. As for S&p 500, increase interest rate causes its present value to drop immediately mathematically speaking but since price is determined by the market due to its future expectations, hence may or may not drop. If fed is wrong for increasing int rate,
s&p 500 crashes.

5. Btw I’m not an expert. This is how I understand. Anyone correct me if I’m wrong.

@swan02, thank you for your detailed explanation. Based
 
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ngsngn

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@Swan02
For point 2, just to confirm my understanding. Given yahoo finance figure:

NAV 1.06
Bid 1.0590
Ask 1.0610

If I want to buy, i should set my bid to 1.059. However, when i want to sell, i should sell it at 1.061 to earn the bond dividends? To earn the yield of 2%, correct?
 

cfleee

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noted for SGD. I think after the initial investment of lump sum via DCA over 12-14months, i probably would contribute $1ksgd per month.

If i understand correctly, based on your v2 sheet looking at 'Effective cost with estimated opportunity cost' even when there's >100kUSD in IBKR, seems like SC Priority is the cheapest at 0.19%, since currently i can meet the 200ksgd requirement. Just thinking now should i close off IBKR instead after just opening 17th July? Then this means i should batch up and invest quarterly for international equity + local equity/local bond since after that my monthly is only around 1ksgd?

The point of batching up to quarterly or otherwise is to avoid the minimum commissions/fees per trade. If you are on SC Priority, there's no minimum commission per trade nor per month, so you might as well do it monthly or however frequently you get paid.

If using IBKR (>USD 100k) for all three components, there still are the minimum commissions on each trade, so might want to batch up. Every 2 or 3 months should be optimal, but likely still a little more expensive than SC Priority. You could also do some weird combos like park enough at IBKR to hit USD 100k, then continue with FSMOne for the local bits...

You should also consider the future - the monthly amount you are able to invest will hopefully (!) go up over time, and there's also some selling required for rebalancing etc. There might be some point above which IBKR will make sense, but SC Priority does look like a decent choice here. There may be some opportunity cost in parking some of your other assets (cash?) at SC to meet the Priority Banking requirement though, so if that's the case you may want to factor that in.
 
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RuiQi_91

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My dad purchased an insurance for me called the NTUC Life Participating Fund when I was young and I was wondering if anyone knows what it is, what the actual return is, and if I should terminate it and pull out the money or just leave it in there. I tried reading about it online but have been not able to fully comprehend the interest rates. I have also been trying out the "compounding interest with monthly contribution" calculator but can't get the correct result.

https://www.income.com.sg/NTUCIncom...ations/Participating-Fund-Update-for-2019.pdf
 

chrisloh65

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For some people like me, car is necessary :s13:
Especially when now during CoVid-19 period, taking public transport is the easiest to catch corona-virus!

1. yes Ireland domiciled.

2. 1500 a month ? u have zero savings after putting aside emergency ?

3. If there r savings, fully invest them within a month into 100 percent mbh and then 1500 monthly into equity only which I assume is your monthly savings.Thus this reduces opportunity cost of cash.

4. Never too late. just that u need to make more money if u can. I’ve seen many families expenses due to the nature of my work. It’s shocking how they spend and argue their expenses are necessary. I don’t see tuition, dancing etc necessary, neither is a car and unnecessary insurances necessary. CUT CUT CUT. Just ten years sacrifice.
 

swan02

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It’s totally fine to have a car when u have money. I used to spend 2k on facials even as a guy lol.

It’s those who are broke yet wanna have a car and that... I recall LKY mention something about the poor having so many babies and smart phones and about priorities. Not long while back I was at this public housing estate for the poor, I bet ya so many scooters around as if one family has two min. So much for priorities.

Lately had an argument with a sales
Person lamenting about how bad the govt is that he is poor yada yada and I said to him, why then r u wearing branded sneakers and why do u think furnishing your kids with branded stuff made any sense...He went berserk and the usual tirade about money is not everything and has to show love this and that.

Speaking about priorities !!!

For some people like me, car is necessary :s13:
Especially when now during CoVid-19 period, taking public transport is the easiest to catch corona-virus!
 

swan02

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@Swan02
For point 2, just to confirm my understanding. Given yahoo finance figure:

NAV 1.06
Bid 1.0590
Ask 1.0610

If I want to buy, i should set my bid to 1.059. However, when i want to sell, i should sell it at 1.061 to earn the bond dividends? To earn the yield of 2%, correct?

no one for certain knows the exact yield. U can only rely on the YTM they Calculate to u on its website.

Frankly it requires skill to buy. I notice market makers or people with deep pockets tend to come before lunch at 1200. Hence liquidity is best before lunch. Also there are techniques if u use scb priority banking no min, where u can fish and shorten the spread thus tricking people to either buy or sell. U would need practice at it and I’ve become pretty good at it. It’s all about psychology. If u know the price really well, u can make an advance preset price to be infront of the queue.

Yeh I try to get it at 1.06 or lesser and sell it at 1.6 or more.... it’s difficult to buy a lot less or sell at lot more but u can if u try everyday like I used to.
 

Shiny Things

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With gold and silver surging towards new heights, it slowly dawns on the hwz investing community that the path to riches was in a user’s name all along... Hidden in plain sight. And that name, is Shiny Things.

Not gonna lie, I LOLed.

Firstly, for anyone who thinks “Shiny Things” is a precious metals reference, go look at my Twitter if you want my opinion on gold. Gold is a terrible long-term investment (especially if you buy it up here!) and goldbugs are idiots. If anyone comes in here shilling the yellow metal (or, worse, the white metal), I will mock you relentlessly.

What moves gold...

1. Sentiment....like all other asset class. It is not a reliable hedge of inflation or a safe haven class.

If it’s an expected future inflation rise, gold will not rise N likely to drop significantly because it is expected interest rate will rise. Interest rate rise causes usd to rise hence weakens gold.
I’d keep it even simpler: it’s 100% sentiment. Gold’s a rock; it’s only worth what someone else will pay for it.

That said, that sentiment is at least partly driven by US real interest rates (which are low right now, so shiny yellow rocks become relatively more attractive) and partly by momentum. I reckon with those two terms you could come up with a pretty good model of the price of the yellow rock.

Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I have read so far, it would not make sense to buy SG stocks/bonds if I intend to retire overseas eventually, therefore what should I invest in, in place of the SG stocks/bonds component? Thanks.

Yep. If you’re not planning to retire in Singapore, you can either:
* Replace the SG stocks and bonds components with the stocks and bonds from the country you’re planning to retire to; or,
* If you don’t know where you’re going to retire, you can just use LQDA for the bonds, and put your entire equity allocation into IWDA.

Hi Shiny,

I saw in your Rich by Retirement book that the Internal Revenue Service—the US tax authority—imposes very strict rules on US taxpayers who invest in stocks or ETFs that are listed outside the USA. For myself, I am due to relocate to the US in the near future for my employment and I would expect to be working in the US for a number of years once the relocation happens. In that case, would it still make sense for me to buy the London-listed ETFs such as IWDA/VWRA right now? Otherwise, what would be appropriate to buy? For my retirement country, it is not something that I have decided as of yet.

Welcome to America! Pro tip: holiday in Utah in the summer, it’s amazing.

In your case, you’re right: you absolutely do NOT want to own IWDA and VWRA. The good news is, you can bung it all into one fund! Sign up for a Vanguard account when you get over here, and put all the money into the appropriate Vanguard Target Retirement fund for your age. You can rethink your asset placement if and when you decide to leave the States, but while you’re over here, Vanguard it.

Seriously, if Vanguard’s target-retirement funds existed in Singapore, this thread wouldn’t need to exist. They really are that good.

Can someone recommend a value etf such as IVE but listed in the LSE ?

Hmm. Do you specifically want US value stocks, or global? And do you want small-cap, or any-cap is fine?

Hi Shiny,

With our IBKR accounts being moved to IBKR SG, some of us will have to rethink if we are to continue with SCB for our local stocks.

Is there any concern with having all our assets consolidated with just 1 broker?

Honestly, no, I don’t think there is, unless you’re really, really big.

Managing multiple brokerage accounts is a gigantic pain in the ass. I have to have a couple of accounts, because my employer uses Fidelity for our retirement accounts, and nothing would make me happier than being able to shut the Fido account down and consolidate it with my other accounts.

And as far as risk management goes, I trust IBKR more than I would trust literally any other broker on the street. They have extremely conservative risk management—If a customer’s position starts to look risky, it gets stopped out immediately and automatically to minimize the risk of IBKR being on the hook for losses. They hold plenty of reserves in case there are losses (as we saw with the oil crash in March, where IBKR was able to cover its customers’ losses with no trouble).

Hello, I am currently investing 40% into IWDA, 40% into G3B and 20% into ABF. Could someone kindly tell me what the average return in percentage will be over a period of e.g. 30 years?

If I estimate the dividends of G3B to be at a conservative 4%, the return of IWDA at 8% and the dividends of ABF at 2% then would the average return over 30 years simply be at an estimate of 0.4*4% + 0.4*8% + 0.2*2% = 5.2% ?

Firstly, you’re leaving out the capital gains component of G3B’s returns. Other than that, your math is right (though remember you’re trafficking in forecasts, not in guarantees. That 5.2% is not guaranteed; it could be less or it could be more).

hi currently trying to build up a portfolio
I have a question regarding US ETF, reading the Millionaire Teacher. In 1 of the chapters it was sharing that Singaporeans should not be getting US ETF due to the taxes. If this is the case what are the alternatives that you are using cover for international exposure? is it to use those Ireland-Domiciled eTF?

Correct.

iShares Core S&P 500 UCITS ETF (Acc) - for international exposure

You should pick a global-stocks ETF instead of a US-specific ETF; other than that this looks pretty sensible.

Hi all, I know i'm late to the market, missed the boat.

On the contrary. Most global stocks are still well off their pre-COVID highs, except for a few go-go US tech names. Things are cheap now; your timing’s great.

With a lump sum of usd100k using IBKR SG, how long should I DCA,

A good rule of thumb for lump sums is to spread it over 4-6 months. Six figures is a decent-sized sum, so you can spread it over six months; that’ll work fine.

@Swan02
For point 2, just to confirm my understanding. Given yahoo finance figure:

NAV 1.06
Bid 1.0590
Ask 1.0610

If I want to buy, i should set my bid to 1.059. However, when i want to sell, i should sell it at 1.061 to earn the bond dividends? To earn the yield of 2%, correct?

What? No. If you want to buy, you need to pay 1.061, because that’s the price that someone’s willing to sell at. If you want to sell, you have to accept 1.059, because that’s the price that someone’s willing to buy at.

You can try to bid less than 1.061, or offer at a higher price than 1.059, to try to squeeze out an extra tick or two; but that means you no longer have a guarantee that your order will get done. The price might move away from you and you’ll be left behind.

We used to have a saying on the desk, “don’t be a d*ck for a tick”. Don’t try to be a hero by trading in the middle. Just pay the ask, or sell the bid; you don't want to miss the trade if the market moves away from your order.
 

nicccccs

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8 year deemed disposal

Hi guys, I know you guys advocate Ireland-domciled funds, just wanted to ask if you guys knew about this 8 year deemed disposal tax? apparently it taxes 41% of your profits? Would like to ask any of the masters here to please enlighten me on this haha.
 

crystalnox

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Hi guys, I know you guys advocate Ireland-domciled funds, just wanted to ask if you guys knew about this 8 year deemed disposal tax? apparently it taxes 41% of your profits? Would like to ask any of the masters here to please enlighten me on this haha.
I think this only applies to UK citizens who have to pay taxes there.
 

BBCWatcher

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In your case, you’re right: you absolutely do NOT want to own IWDA and VWRA. The good news is, you can bung it all into one fund! Sign up for a Vanguard account when you get over here, and put all the money into the appropriate Vanguard Target Retirement fund for your age. You can rethink your asset placement if and when you decide to leave the States, but while you’re over here, Vanguard it.

Seriously, if Vanguard’s target-retirement funds existed in Singapore, this thread wouldn’t need to exist. They really are that good.
They are very good, but Schwab's are slightly better, surprisingly, since they have a lower expense ratio (0.08% v. Vanguard's 0.12% to 0.15%). Schwab also has a US$1 minimum to open versus Vanguard's US$1,000. And Schwab offers a lovely ATM/debit card as a bonus. Yes, I was/am surprised Schwab is so competitive, but there it is.
 

limster

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My dad purchased an insurance for me called the NTUC Life Participating Fund when I was young and I was wondering if anyone knows what it is, what the actual return is, and if I should terminate it and pull out the money or just leave it in there. I tried reading about it online but have been not able to fully comprehend the interest rates. I have also been trying out the "compounding interest with monthly contribution" calculator but can't get the correct result.

https://www.income.com.sg/NTUCIncom...ations/Participating-Fund-Update-for-2019.pdf

As the document says on page 2 "please refer to your bonus statement" for more information. Every year NTUC will send you the bonus statement.

You can also login online and see your surrender value and do an XIRR calculation to find out whats the return so far.

Most people I know are keeping their old NTUC policies because the return is very good - they are better than bonds because
(i) their surrender value only goes up (bond can go down in price), never goes down,
(ii) the rate of return is higher than A rated bonds
(iii) you get free 'protection' against death etc.

I have 2 NTUC Living policies since young, definitely keeping them ;)
 

swan02

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The issue is that I may not want to buy anymore tech if I continue to buy IWDA. Although IWDA is already pretty decent with only 20 percent in tech. I aim for the old economy stocks.

1. I would prefer an s&P 500 NON TECH value stocks etf where I can buy up financials, macdonalds, caterpillar INC etc

2. However, I wouldn't mind also global since europe has nice cheap financials and many more too

3. Prefer Large cap only but a mixture is still find with me.

Hmm. Do you specifically want US value stocks, or global? And do you want small-cap, or any-cap is fine?
 

BBCWatcher

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The issue is that I may not want to buy anymore tech if I continue to buy IWDA. Although IWDA is already pretty decent with only 20 percent in tech. I aim for the old economy stocks.

1. I would prefer an s&P 500 NON TECH value stocks etf where I can buy up financials, macdonalds, caterpillar INC etc

2. However, I wouldn't mind also global since europe has nice cheap financials and many more too

3. Prefer Large cap only but a mixture is still find with me.
You could take a look at IWVL, a so-called "value stock" index fund, a global one. It's Irish domiciled/London listed, accumulating, and the expense ratio is a pretty reasonable 0.30%. Or maybe WQDA, which uses a dividend-oriented assessment as an index screen, indirectly knocking out most technology stocks. But WQDA has a higher expense ratio (0.38%) and thinner trading volume.
 

swan02

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Thanks for the recommendation. I had watched over this iwvl for some time and still find the spread not to my liking.

I guess I can’t complain with iwda. Factoring my Asia and local stocks, my tech make up isn’t really that bad.

You could take a look at IWVL, a so-called "value stock" index fund, a global one. It's Irish domiciled/London listed, accumulating, and the expense ratio is a pretty reasonable 0.30%. Or maybe WQDA, which uses a dividend-oriented assessment as an index screen, indirectly knocking out most technology stocks. But WQDA has a higher expense ratio (0.38%) and thinner trading volume.
 

Han Shot First

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Let see how mbh performed during the crisis.
From beginning to peak to bottom, it lost approx 2.2 percent. And that 2.2 percent lose is a result of the equity risk it contains as well as the financial crisis that took over this exposing its bond risk. Really it isn’t too bad. It has a duration of about 5 years and can expect approx 2 percent YTM.

A35 lost zero even after the financial crisis took over. It isn’t bad to also have A35 if u add a smithereens of equity. But mbh is just much more easy. little equity + a35 can give u also approx 2 percent long term return too.

Just to check: The annualized rate of return of MBH is 2% p.a. ?

So as an extension to your investment strategy if one could find a "safe" investment that could provide a higher or similar rate of return as MBH, one could invest 100% into that "safe" investment rather than into MBH (to become fully invested)?
 
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