Official Shiny Things thread—Part III

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Kayeesha

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Hi Shiny, many thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.

I get you, but I’m not sure why you’re digging into the NAV so deeply. The thing that matters is how much money ends up in your account, so spreads matter.

Apologies but I was focussing on outperformance and had overlooked the objective of these ETFs – to track and not to outperform the benchmark. So, I really shouldn’t be looking at the performance of the NAVs but how closely they track the benchmark.

Nonetheless, as the spread cost only occurs when you buy and sell, whilst the TER occurs yearly, if not daily, I thought, intuitively, you will select the fund with the lower TER which in this case is SWRD/LCWD/VHVE over IWRA.

Moreover, can you assume that the spreads of the smaller and younger ETFs will narrow as the fund size and daily volume continue to grow due to investors shifting funds over for the lower expense ratio?

The first question is why you’re looking at overseas bonds in the first place.

Apologies but I had assumed that overseas bonds and overseas stocks will be more negatively correlated compared to local bonds and overseas stocks. Also, as these bond ETFs will be denominated in US$, there is no FX risk when it comes to rebalancing in the overseas portion of the portfolio.

Do you really want to take all the extra FX risk inherent in owning bonds, for basically zero extra yield? It’s not a great trade.

Correct me if I am wrong but the FX risk occurs when you drawdown to pay for your S$ living expenses but not when you use it rebalance your portfolio i.e. buy more overseas stocks?

If you’re really insistent on owning overseas bonds, and you have a good reason for it (e.g. you’re going to retire in another country), then it makes sense to own bonds denominated in the currency of the country where you might retire. That might be USD if you like some purple mountain majesties and epic road trips; AUD if you like not getting the ‘rona and don’t mind deadly animals; NZD if you like not getting the ‘rona but don’t like deadly animals; or GBP if you hate yourself.

No, I’m not being insistent, just not understanding. I thought just like we will be holding both local and overseas stocks, we will also be holding local and overseas bonds during the accumulation phase.

However, during the distribution phase, to cover our living expenses in S$, our bond portfolio will be 100% local to not take on the extra FX risk. So, I thought there should then be a progressive shift in allocation from overseas to local in the bond portion. Of course, this does make the managing the investment portfolio more complicated and likely increase overall costs.

The upshot is that there’s no clear answer to “which international bond ETF should I buy?”; this one depends on individuals’ needs.

Nah. For regular investors, hedging your FX risk is completely unnecessary. It just runs up costs—and really, it becomes an excuse for punting FX and calling it “hedging”.

I’d take your advice. It’s already too complicated for me to manage this 3 (4 if I were to throw in a China ETF) fund portfolio.

Uh. You want China, but you don’t want EM ETFs? I hate to break it to you, but China is an EM...

Yes, China is an EM but an EM ETF like EIMI has other countries in their 10 top like Brazil, Russia and South Africa which according to OECD have country risk ratings of 4 and 5. China’s country risk rating is 2 and Hong Kong is a DM but has a country risk rating of 3.

Anyway. Do you want mainland-China only, or do you want China + HK + Taiwan?

Off the top of my head, I’d like China and Taiwan.

Btw, with Vanguard closing their HK ETF business which included their US$210m 9140 HK S&P 500 index tracking ETF, it would seem that the large ETF with AUM above US$100m criteria is no longer fool proof. Neither is the name “Vanguard, iShares or SPDR”?

Having said that, is it safe to assume that SWRD, LCWD and VHVE will not suffer the same fate as Vanguard’s HK ETFs?

Apologies but here are some additional questions that I have:
1. I believe I am supposed to reinvest all dividends from ES3 and MBH. So, how should I reinvest them bearing in mind that I have no income, so will not be doing monthly or periodic DCA-ing and minimising the number of transactions would be my preference? Still immediate reinvestment due to opportunity costs, or can I batch them up and reinvest when I come to do the rebalancing?

2. Would you recommend Tiger Brokers as they have the same 0.08% trading fees as IBKR SG but they have no minimum trading fee? Btw, I have an IBKR LLC account.

Once again, very many thanks Shiny and everyone.
 

ftpofmpo

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hi ST,

just to update u... actually, that's not all that the developers do.

i think our SG reits which is responsible for the systematic increase in living costs has influenced them. remember, our reits went forth to china to set-up shop. and the PRCs do what they do best, C2C, i.e. copy to china, but almost always on more aggressive terms.

they set up their own "reits" structure whereby they buy / rent an entire land plot and then look for retail tenants to lease them.

these are usually complete w infrastructure and amenities, plus some hype for each themed-project.

and then, they offer a loan structure which binds the tenants to a long term lease on a money-lenders' rate.

the chinese gov has moved hard and fast to modify such biz ops since, though.

why did ccp move to clamp these residential sub-leasers?

it's because their chief target are fresh graduates or young couples who sign onto such lease where they borrow the money from moneylenders and are bounded to repayment even if these sub-leasers go bankrupt or are dismantled.

this causes a huge structural problems as young graduates would be more spending-focused and with a lack of life experience, would usually spend abit more than their ability endows them to.

hope this is interesting for u to know.

*I have come to accept in life, there are weirdos such as chrisloh or show-offs like basic whom I have added to my block list.

oh well, that's the best that we could do, i guess?

singapore reits can influence chinese companies' model? this is quite surprising
 

chekseng80

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Hi Shiny, many thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.



Apologies but I was focussing on outperformance and had overlooked the objective of these ETFs – to track and not to outperform the benchmark. So, I really shouldn’t be looking at the performance of the NAVs but how closely they track the benchmark.

Nonetheless, as the spread cost only occurs when you buy and sell, whilst the TER occurs yearly, if not daily, I thought, intuitively, you will select the fund with the lower TER which in this case is SWRD/LCWD/VHVE over IWRA.

Moreover, can you assume that the spreads of the smaller and younger ETFs will narrow as the fund size and daily volume continue to grow due to investors shifting funds over for the lower expense ratio?



Apologies but I had assumed that overseas bonds and overseas stocks will be more negatively correlated compared to local bonds and overseas stocks. Also, as these bond ETFs will be denominated in US$, there is no FX risk when it comes to rebalancing in the overseas portion of the portfolio.



Correct me if I am wrong but the FX risk occurs when you drawdown to pay for your S$ living expenses but not when you use it rebalance your portfolio i.e. buy more overseas stocks?



No, I’m not being insistent, just not understanding. I thought just like we will be holding both local and overseas stocks, we will also be holding local and overseas bonds during the accumulation phase.

However, during the distribution phase, to cover our living expenses in S$, our bond portfolio will be 100% local to not take on the extra FX risk. So, I thought there should then be a progressive shift in allocation from overseas to local in the bond portion. Of course, this does make the managing the investment portfolio more complicated and likely increase overall costs.





I’d take your advice. It’s already too complicated for me to manage this 3 (4 if I were to throw in a China ETF) fund portfolio.



Yes, China is an EM but an EM ETF like EIMI has other countries in their 10 top like Brazil, Russia and South Africa which according to OECD have country risk ratings of 4 and 5. China’s country risk rating is 2 and Hong Kong is a DM but has a country risk rating of 3.



Off the top of my head, I’d like China and Taiwan.

Btw, with Vanguard closing their HK ETF business which included their US$210m 9140 HK S&P 500 index tracking ETF, it would seem that the large ETF with AUM above US$100m criteria is no longer fool proof. Neither is the name “Vanguard, iShares or SPDR”?

Having said that, is it safe to assume that SWRD, LCWD and VHVE will not suffer the same fate as Vanguard’s HK ETFs?

Apologies but here are some additional questions that I have:
1. I believe I am supposed to reinvest all dividends from ES3 and MBH. So, how should I reinvest them bearing in mind that I have no income, so will not be doing monthly or periodic DCA-ing and minimising the number of transactions would be my preference? Still immediate reinvestment due to opportunity costs, or can I batch them up and reinvest when I come to do the rebalancing?

2. Would you recommend Tiger Brokers as they have the same 0.08% trading fees as IBKR SG but they have no minimum trading fee? Btw, I have an IBKR LLC account.

Once again, very many thanks Shiny and everyone.
1. Reinvest during next DCA no matter next week, month or quarter.

2. Tiger dont have access to LSE yet.
 

ftpofmpo

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newjersey,

Please don't lie to all people here that "our SG reits which is responsible for the systematic increase in living costs".
This is just a big fat lie NOT supported by material evidence (just like your sarpo and your favorite brown-tonguing, or rather you all brown-tonguing reciprocally)!

what do you expect them to say? that they actions resulted in higher cost of living?

i'm 12 and even i don't take local news reports at face value
 

Visa4550

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Shiny Things, what is the difference between VWRA and VWRD? Should I be concerned about VWRA's lack of performance history? Is VWRA accumalting, denominated in USD and Irish domiciled?

Sent from Samsung SM-N960F using GAGT
 

chrisloh65

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ChronoCross,

So are you and newjersey going to apologize for your lies?

Or are both of you going to insist that your false claims are REAL and you insisted on slandering Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and his cabinet with these lies? :eek:

LHL and ST have very little credibility and respect among the internet population. Seems like you belong to the same camp :o
 
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Once again, very many thanks Shiny and everyone.

I think I can try my hand at this. Used to be a fixed income PM. Book size 2 billion USD.

I think you need a framework to evaluate your fixed income choices.

Recently, I evaluated a bond ETF for one of the folks here. From a pro to layman. Hope you can find the analysis insightful.

Name of bond - XXXXX
Credit rating (Snp, Moodys, Fitch) - A

Government bond of China. A rated by the credit rating agencies. Unlikely to upgrade to AA or downgrade BBB in the foreseeable future. Might have to divest if it moves to BBB.

Principal - CNY(RMB) main account but traded in CNY and USD. Sub fund in SGD and USD. All unhedged.

Buy-in in USD but the underlying main account is in CNY. Movements in the USD/CNY will impact the value of the principal.

Interest - Semi-annual at 2.98% gross (monthly reset) USD terms.

The interest changes month to month as the ETF rebalances at the end of the month. The management fee is capped at 0.30%. USD/CNY risk present but minor compared to the FX risk on the principal.

Duration - 5.7 years (monthly reset but follow benchmark)

The duration might increase or decrease based on the benchmark. I think how to read this is 5.7 modified duration means if CN official interest rate +1% your principal - 5.7%. Or interest rates -1%, principal +5.7%. So some buying and selling opportunities there.

In sum,

Credit rating. A. Unlikely to change.
Principal. Value of principal might fluctuate coz of USD/CNY.
Interest. 2.98% (gross) semi annual USD. Interest rate not fixed as the fund rebalances at the end of the month. Fund collects interest in CNY but paid in USD so minor FX risk here.
Duration. 5.7 years moving. Price in the formula +/- 1% formula from above.

Too complex a flavor for me. This is even before adding the SGD variable into the mix.

Which type(s) of investor may consider investing in this bond ETF?

Well, I think a sinkie with biz or work in china with a capital base in USD (instead of SGD) might consider this. They would be the types who will be reading news on china and understand USD better than most.

Should a layman invest? A layman as in a Singaporean who does not follow CN interest rate nor FX trends. Or the average dividend collector.

As above? Not easy to reach that sort of level of acumen unless 90% of your life depends on it.

Just to shoot some ideas. Not recommending anything or any bank here. I looked at BEA Singapore's CNH FD rates. They offer 2.1% fixed for 6 months. So if you can handle the CNH/SGD risk. Maybe can explore there.


Hope this helps.
 

bobobob

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long post.


Is this something you feel strong about? I agree with a lot you say, but I think you're preaching to the choir. This is money mind forum after all.

I think the problem is a lot of people lack financial literacy. If you don't a mind for it, it's not easy to understand things like inflation and interest rates, bonds, and shares.

It's not easy to begin with, and then you have insurance agents, bank relationship managers who are eager to disguise financial advice with pitching products that make them money. Then you have people like iquadrant.

Sure, everyone has some responsibility to educate themselves on how to manage their money, but I think we have to admit that there are many obstacles and traps.

And on to of that, life is hard man. When you have other problems in your life, maybe a **** job, maybe a **** family, reading up on financial literacy is probably the last thing on your mind, if it's not something you find interesting.

There are a few of you who say you are rich enough to never work again and are looking for something meaningful to do. Maybe you can consider doing something to spread financial education. Shiny things has done his part, but he's an Australian who doesn't live here anymore. Maybe we can do more.
 

cassowary18

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Shiny Things, what is the difference between VWRA and VWRD? Should I be concerned about VWRA's lack of performance history? Is VWRA accumalting, denominated in USD and Irish domiciled?

Sent from Samsung SM-N960F using GAGT

I think I replied to your post on Seedly fb group about this. They're the same except VWRA is accumulating and VWRD is distributing.
 

newjersey

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singapore reits can influence chinese companies' model? this is quite surprising
of course, you are not aware that SG GLC-linked REITs set up shop in China.
sounds so conspiracy theory, right?

don't let my fake news mislead you otherwise, ok?

cheers.
 

newjersey

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Is this something you feel strong about? I agree with a lot you say, but I think you're preaching to the choir. This is money mind forum after all.

I think the problem is a lot of people lack financial literacy. If you don't a mind for it, it's not easy to understand things like inflation and interest rates, bonds, and shares.

It's not easy to begin with, and then you have insurance agents, bank relationship managers who are eager to disguise financial advice with pitching products that make them money. Then you have people like iquadrant.

Sure, everyone has some responsibility to educate themselves on how to manage their money, but I think we have to admit that there are many obstacles and traps.

And on to of that, life is hard man. When you have other problems in your life, maybe a **** job, maybe a **** family, reading up on financial literacy is probably the last thing on your mind, if it's not something you find interesting.

There are a few of you who say you are rich enough to never work again and are looking for something meaningful to do. Maybe you can consider doing something to spread financial education. Shiny things has done his part, but he's an Australian who doesn't live here anymore. Maybe we can do more.
to summarise,

self-responsibility.

;)
 

sexy_pterodactyl

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Brokerage choice

Hi all, read ST's book and keen to set up my 3 fund portfolio.

So far have about 1.5-2k a month to invest and I've been using the FSMOne RSP to buy ES3 and MBH. Looking to start buying IWDA as recommended.

My question is, which broker to go with? It feels like using IB will make my transaction fees go from ~$1.50 SGD to $10USD (if I forego FSMOne entirely and keep everything on IB from here on out). Is the exposure to IWDA worth my transaction fees going up so high? Should I stick to FSMOne for local RSP and buy IWDA quarterly on SCB instead?

If it helps, I expect my investment amount to increase in the years to come and to hit the USD $100k mark on IB within the next 5 years if I do choose to focus on that platform.

Thanks for entertaining my noob question.
 

Shiny Things

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Hi Shiny, many thanks for taking the time to reply to my posts.
Moreover, can you assume that the spreads of the smaller and younger ETFs will narrow as the fund size and daily volume continue to grow due to investors shifting funds over for the lower expense ratio?

Ah... not always. Firstly, the spread may narrow eventually, but right now the spread is wide and you’re paying a lot to get into it.

The other reason you steer away from smaller and younger ETFs is that the fund sponsor will wind them up if they can’t cover their costs, and that’s a bit of a pain if it happens. Sticking to a larger, more liquid ETF, for a couple of extra bps, is usually the lowest-hassle way to do it.

Correct me if I am wrong but the FX risk occurs when you drawdown to pay for your S$ living expenses but not when you use it rebalance your portfolio i.e. buy more overseas stocks?

Not quite. You have FX “risk”—in the sense that FX rates move around—no matter what stage you’re at in your investment.

Off the top of my head, I’d like China and Taiwan.

Edit Disregard my answer here. In between the truly gross homophobia, Chris pointed out that these two aren’t particularly liquid. I’ll rethink.

Apologies but here are some additional questions that I have:
1. I believe I am supposed to reinvest all dividends from ES3 and MBH. So, how should I reinvest them bearing in mind that I have no income, so will not be doing monthly or periodic DCA-ing and minimising the number of transactions would be my preference? Still immediate reinvestment due to opportunity costs, or can I batch them up and reinvest when I come to do the rebalancing?

Nah, you can batch them up, and just do a buy trade whenever you have enough in accumulated cash to make it worth investing. (You’re a bit of an edge case here. Most people would just sweep the dividends up in their monthly dollar-cost-average investment.)

2. Would you recommend Tiger Brokers as they have the same 0.08% trading fees as IBKR SG but they have no minimum trading fee? Btw, I have an IBKR LLC account.

I keep seeing Tiger’s name floating around, but to be honest I don’t know anything about them. I’d rather point people to a bigger, more trustworthy name like IBKR.

Hi all, read ST's book and keen to set up my 3 fund portfolio.

So far have about 1.5-2k a month to invest and I've been using the FSMOne RSP to buy ES3 and MBH. Looking to start buying IWDA as recommended.

My question is, which broker to go with? It feels like using IB will make my transaction fees go from ~$1.50 SGD to $10USD (if I forego FSMOne entirely and keep everything on IB from here on out).

The other thing to think about is the spread on the currency conversion, when you buy USD to invest in IWDA. We’ve found that retail brokers average half a percent in spread on that conversion—$10 SGD on each purchase, if you’re doing $2k a month. Because of that, IBKR suddenly becomes a lot more competitive. (And now that IBKR offers Singaporean equities as well, if you move your Singaporean stocks over to them, you’ll hit the $100k mark even faster.)

I’d go straight to Interactive.

[...]Shiny Thing's [...] she Shiny Things [...] her argument, so she Shiny Things [...] she [...] her [...] she and her [...] her [...] her [...] her [...] her [...] she [...] she [...] her mother [...] she [...] She [...] she [...] she [...] she [...] she [...] her [...] she [...] her

Chris, I don’t know how to break this to you, but:
A) I’m a guy;
B) I’m not going to date you.

Credit rating (Snp, Moodys, Fitch) - A

Government bond of China. A rated by the credit rating agencies. Unlikely to upgrade to AA or downgrade BBB in the foreseeable future. Might have to divest if it moves to BBB.

Principal - CNY(RMB) main account but traded in CNY and USD. Sub fund in SGD and USD. All unhedged.

Buy-in in USD but the underlying main account is in CNY. Movements in the USD/CNY will impact the value of the principal.

Interest - Semi-annual at 2.98% gross (monthly reset) USD terms.

234bps over 7y USTs, for a high-rated sovereign issuing in its own currency, seems pretty meaty.

How much would it cost to FX-hedge that thing? I’m totally spitballing here but I reckon you could hedge that back to USD (if you even wanted to hedge, there seems to be a pretty substantial strong-CNY trade building up amongst the macro crowd I pay attention to) and still get a very nice pickup over treasuries.

It's not easy to begin with, and then you have insurance agents, bank relationship managers who are eager to disguise financial advice with pitching products that make them money. Then you have people like iquadrant.

Sure, everyone has some responsibility to educate themselves on how to manage their money, but I think we have to admit that there are many obstacles and traps.

Yeah, this was why I wrote the book in the first place. Singapore’s retail financial product scene was (and still is, to a degree) a minefield: lots of high-cost products that don’t do what they say they do; lots of scams… it’s gotten better since I wrote the first version, but I think it’s still useful for people to have one simple how-to guide.

There are a few of you who say you are rich enough to never work again and are looking for something meaningful to do. Maybe you can consider doing something to spread financial education. Shiny things has done his part, but he's an Australian who doesn't live here anymore. Maybe we can do more.

I bang on about this a lot, but if anyone wants to work together on building a Singapore-focused robo-advisor, call me!
 
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newjersey

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I bang on about this a lot, but if anyone wants to work together on building a Singapore-focused robo-advisor, call me!

hi ST,

1. do you think it's worth the trouble as SG's size is small?

2. what sort of licences are needed to do this? or can anyone retail do this?

3. what is the sort of funding required, what is your estimate?
 

Listopad

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234bps over 7y USTs, for a high-rated sovereign issuing in its own currency, seems pretty meaty.

How much would it cost to FX-hedge that thing? I’m totally spitballing here but I reckon you could hedge that back to USD (if you even wanted to hedge, there seems to be a pretty substantial strong-CNY trade building up amongst the macro crowd I pay attention to) and still get a very nice pickup over treasuries.


I bang on about this a lot, but if anyone wants to work together on building a Singapore-focused robo-advisor, call me!

https://www.nikkoam.com.sg/files/images/etf/NikkoAM-ICBCSG_China_Bond_ETF_Product_Sheet.pdf

What about this, worth considering for some yield pickup and diversification in a large invt portfolio ?
 
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https://www.nikkoam.com.sg/files/images/etf/NikkoAM-ICBCSG_China_Bond_ETF_Product_Sheet.pdf

What about this, worth considering for some yield pickup and diversification in a large invt portfolio ?

'Large invt portfolio' can mean anything. Large doesn't equate to being profitable. I read it as 'adventurous and open to ideas'.'

I think the key questions are

1.How much loss can you take?

This deal maybe 9% (4% on the duration/interest rate risk)+(5% on the FX risk)

2.What are your close substitutes?

Some banks are paying 2.2-2.4% for 1 year CNH FD.

3.Do you see fixed income as a form of principal protection to increase your firepower in a rebalancing and act as a cash buffer if you are drawing down or the complete opposite of that?

I will try to dissect this bond into details for you if you think of the opposite.


In my previous life, we weren't looking for complex deals like a Perps, CoCo or AT1. Sounds complex? We like the plain vanilla products with a name we are comfortable with. Ambiguity = risk.

Yield is a function of credit risk and the prevailing interest rate of the day. We are living under the sky of QE so can't expect much in terms of yield.

Hope this helps.
 
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