Options trading question

MadDawg

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But in general, my repair strategy is as follows. See whether you understand..
For example, Apple share which has been bullish for months suddenly move down drastically from 140 USD to 120 USD.

Hence, my vertical spread (Bull Put Spread) which I have been betting that the stock will be bullish, is in trouble. So what I will do is, roll my sell put further away, For instance, my Vertical Spread- Bull Put Spread is as follows (Sell 100 Put, Buy 95 Put) of the same expiration date.

What I will do is close my exisiting sell put, and open another sell put- 90 Sell Put.

Hence, this is my method, see whether you can understand, that is why my trade will not lose all my capital, I will hedge my risk by repairing before my trades turn awry.

Hi. Just to clarify. Are you saying that if AAPL drops from 140 to 120, you will roll your 100/95 put spread down to 90/85? Or are you saying you will ONLY roll down the short side, i.e the 100 strike to 90? In which case you are turning a short 100/95 put spread to a long 95/90 put spread.

I think you mean the former, so essentially you are just locking in the loss on the 100/95 put spread and opening a new position with the 90/85 put spread.
If that is the case, your 'repair' strategy is not really repairing the position per se. Instead, you will keep putting on put spreads, letting the bad ones go and rely on the probability that you may make money say 8 out of 10 trades?
 

Shiny Things

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Anyone can help me with my above questions? 😀

JFC mate we're not a paid service here. You can wait more than an hour and a half before posting a followup. If you want like 90-minute turnarounds I charge for that.

Anyway, oh man there is a lot going on here. Let's get started.

I require help in trading options? Can some options experts clarify my queries? I have zero knowledge and experience about option trading and contemplating whether should I venture into option trading?😀

Nope, you probably shouldn't.

Is trading option more lucrative than trading stocks? Is trading options a safer option, if you know how to hedge your risk? Would you choose to be a nett buyer or nett seller in options? If one account is small, can we use option to trade, where options is a leverage to trade stocks or futures? As compared to stocks, where you need large capital? Buying stocks are extremely RISKY, do most of the investors lose money in stock market? Is there no way to hedge your risk for buying stocks except to set stop loss? Penny stocks are exteremly risky, will the company bust if you are not careful? Is it worth holding a stock when you have lost a lot of money, hoping it would bounce back? Hence, is trading options a safer option as risks are hedged?

In order: Maybe. Maybe. Buyer, but reasonable people disagree. No. That's not even a question. No. Sure there is. Yes, penny stocks are risky. No, that's dumb. Depends whether you're net long or short.

Is trading futures like Crude Oil, S&P 500, Nasdaq, Coffee, Natural Gas profitable?

Futures are inherently zero-sum. Think about this: if you buy SPX futures, you have to buy them from someone. And if you make a profit, that someone that you bought them from is going to make a loss.

I frequently see these terms I read on the Options Book from Lawrence G. McMillan...but was quite unsure about it, hence making some wild, random guesses about it...

Mate, you have literally no idea what you're talking about, do you? (Also, a Triple Top Breakout sounds like something nasty you'd catch from a wild night out at the Lookout or the Midnight Sun. I think there are antibiotics for that.)

For instance, Crude Oil is bullish, we will go for Bull Put Spread? And for index like Dow Jones Index, do we go for Bull Put Spread only as this index is uptrending?
So here's the deal, and I'm going to stop making fun of you now.

Options are just another way to express your view on an underlying.

If you think the underlying is going up—whether that underlying is a single stock, a stock index, a currency, a commodity, an interest rate, whatever—the easiest way to express your point of view is just to buy the underlying.

Options let you express a more nuanced view on what the underlying's going to do.

If you think the underlying's going to rocket higher: you buy some low-delta calls. Small premium, maximum bang for your buck if your view is right.

If you think the underlying's going to go a bit higher, but not much: buy some 1x2 call spreads. Little to no premium, nice profit if your guess is right, but potential losses if you're wrong and the stock goes up a lot.

If you think the underlying's going to fart around in a range and then explode higher: buy a calendar spread (sell front-month calls, buy back-month calls). Pay some premium upfront, but less than you'd pay for the naked calls; the tradeoff is that if it moves before your short strike rolls off you're going to make less than you would have otherwise.

There are a squillion kinky-sounding variations on these strategies, as well. Collars! Strangle spreads! Strips and straps! Straddles! The point is that options let you express a more nuanced view than "it's going up" or "it's going down". If your view isn't more nuanced than "it's going up", then there's no point farting around with options; you'd be better off just trading the underlying.

Do we always sell options, and never go for naked options, must do "hedging" by buying an insurance to hedge our risk? For instance, when we sell a Put option of 36, we must also buy a Put options of 39, so as to hedge our risk, in the even the direction is wrong and not to our favour? We can minimise our losses and there is some sort of protection?

Sure, you can sell naked options, I used to do that all the time when I did this professionally. The question is: how big are your balls, and how diligent is your risk-management? You're getting into the sort of area where you can't just set a stoploss order and go to bed.

How much strike price difference for our vertical spread must we set? Is this very essential? For instance, for Crude Oil, must we set a strike price difference of $3 for our vertical spread? Will it affect our profits or losses?

There are no hard-and-fast rules here.

Let's use call spreads as an example. We'll look at the options on the CLN7 crude futures, since that's what you were talking about. Right now, the futures are trading 47.83, and the near-the-money options are trading as follows:

48 strike: 0.66
48.50 strike: 0.50
49 strike: 0.32
49.50 strike: 0.21

If you buy the 48-48.50 call spread, you'll pay 16 cents for a maximum payoff of 50 cents. That's a 3:1 payoff ratio.

If you buy the 48-49.50 call spread, you'll pay 41 cents for a maximum payoff of $1.50. That's a 3.6:1 payoff ratio, but with a lower chance of paying out (because the futures are less likely to reach 49.50 than they are to reach 48.50).

If you're going to do stuff like this, you need to ask yourself "where do I think the underlying's going to end up?". And then "OK, based on where I think the underlying's going to end up, what options strategy gives me the risk-return tradeoff that I want.

And do we look out for the Probability In The Money (PITM) percentage? Let's say the PITM hits 30%, we start repairing early to prevent further losses, ...
See below regarding "repair strategies". Basically they are a lie that charlatans tell to options naïfs.

And on the question on choosing which options chain to trade, is it the longer or shorter expiration date is better? Longer expiration date allows more time to react in case of repair?

Stop fixating on "repair". If a trade goes against you, you don't "repair" it, you don't double up to catch up; you close out of the trade and move on. Doubling up to "repair" a loss-making options position is what got Dave Bullen and Luke Duffy in half a billion dollars' worth of trouble.

And it true that if the options in out of the money, and expire worthless, the options will not get exercised?

Well yes, this is true by definition, because options can only ever end up expired or exercised; there's no third way.

And for instance, if an options is closed early, we have to pay for the commission fee, hence is it wise to let it expire worthless. And are we not allowed to close at 0.00, as nobody will be willing to buy at that mark price? So the lowest mark price we can close is 0.01, if let say we close early?

Well hey, if someone was offering me any option for zero, my answer would be "I'll buy them all, how much do you want to sell me?".

Seriously though. If you've got a bunch of options that are basically worth zero, a good mental trick I learned is to write them off: mentally mark them at zero. (We used to move these into the "strip" book, because we were "stripping them out" of the position.) Don't hedge them; just ignore them entirely.

If the underlying moves back close to the strike price, and the options suddenly have value: woohoo, windfall gain! Sell 'em and pocket the cash. If they end up expiring, you've written them off anyway and accepted the loss.

Short options, on the other hand: yes, pay the five cents to buy them back. There's nothing worse than being short a truckload of low-delta options that you thought were basically dead, then having them come back to life as spot rockets toward the strike and cost you six or seven figures to close them out before they blow you up. Trust me on this.

Also, options usually trade in nickel increments (five cents).

And at what profit would you close your trade? Would you allow your options to expire worthless or when you have amassed 75% of the profit, you close early?

Again, personal preference.

And do you trade crude oil by Bear Call Spread, Bull Put Spread or Iron Condor? As Crude Oil price is largely one directional movement, would it be too risky to trade by Iron Condor?

Mate this is gibberish, I don't even know what you're saying here.

Firstly, there are also "bull call spreads" and "bear put spreads".

Secondly, crude is not a one-way market. Over the last couple of decades it's gone from $12 to $150 to $20 to $50.

Thirdly, remember what I said above about "options are a way to express a more nuanced view on the market"? Iron condors (you don't need to capitalise it) are a way to express a view that "I think the underlying is going to be rangebound for the next week, month, three months, year, whatever".

And when do we use Iron Condor? Is it suitable for stocks or futures that has no direction, directionless, very little movement up and down?
Yes, that's the idea of short straddles and short condors and any other vol-selling trade. If you think the underlying's going to be rangebound, selling options lets you profit from that view—with the tradeoff that if you're wrong, and the stock is volatile, you're going to lose money, probably more than you put in.

And do we trade all our capital into one option?

Don't be a lunatic. No. Never put all your eggs in one basket, whether that basket is an option or a stock or a bond or even just sticking it in the bank.

And is it safe to trade too many lots into one particular stock or future? In the event, when a major event happens, a panic occurs, will you lose a lot of money?

Are you high?

Hence, is it wise to hold counters of different industries? For example Crude Oil, Ten Year Treasury Notes, Gold are the economy based futures. Soybeans, Corn are agricultural based futures. Hence, is it wise not to invest in the same industry based futures and diversify our porfolio. Just in case, when one industry is in trouble, we have the other to back up?

No, seriously, are you high? This is not how diversification works. Diversification is for things that you're going to buy and hold, not for futures positions which are inherently things that you trade.

And I realise that trading in commodities such as wheat, barley, sugar, maize, cotton, cocoa, coffee, milk products, soybeans are heavily dependent on weather and they are considered seasonal trades.. For example during rainy seasons, these crops may be heavily affected, hence do we avoid trading these commodities during these periods? Hence, when is the right time to trade these products? Is it by looking at the CBOE Volatility Index, when it is volatile, it it the best time to enter the trade?

Mate, seriously, I have no idea what you're on about here. This is word salad.

Have totally zero experience and no knowledge in options trading, and keen in it. Any experienced options trader can help me clarify my doubts that I have read from the book? 😀

OK, I will clarify your doubts by saying you should stay well away from options. You're welcome.

Anyway. PM me if you want some actual advice on this stuff from someone who did it professionally.

But in general, my repair strategy is as follows. See whether you understand..
For example, Apple share which has been bullish for months suddenly move down drastically from 140 USD to 120 USD.

Hence, my vertical spread (Bull Put Spread) which I have been betting that the stock will be bullish, is in trouble. So what I will do is, roll my sell put further away, For instance, my Vertical Spread- Bull Put Spread is as follows (Sell 100 Put, Buy 95 Put) of the same expiration date.

What I will do is close my exisiting sell put, and open another sell put- 90 Sell Put.

Hence, this is my method, see whether you can understand, that is why my trade will not lose all my capital, I will hedge my risk by repairing before my trades turn awry.

That's not a "repair" strategy, that's "double up to catch up". "Repair strategies" are lies that are sold to newbie options traders to persuade them that options are somehow a sure-win strategy.

If the stock drops from 140 to 120, your 100-95 put spread will have gone from (let's say) 50 cents to $1.50. You'll be locking in a $1 loss on the 100-95 put spread, and hoping that the 90-85 put spread expires worthless and bails you out.

The other thing is: what happens if there's a huge gap down, like SNAP, HTZ or YELP did just this week when they released earnings? If AAPL gaps from 140 to 95, your put spread will have gone from 50 cents to $4.00 or so, and you've just incinerated most of your capital. What do you do then?
 

scholar88

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JFC mate we're not a paid service here. You can wait more than an hour and a half before posting a followup. If you want like 90-minute turnarounds I charge for that.

Anyway, oh man there is a lot going on here. Let's get started.



Nope, you probably shouldn't.



In order: Maybe. Maybe. Buyer, but reasonable people disagree. No. That's not even a question. No. Sure there is. Yes, penny stocks are risky. No, that's dumb. Depends whether you're net long or short.



Futures are inherently zero-sum. Think about this: if you buy SPX futures, you have to buy them from someone. And if you make a profit, that someone that you bought them from is going to make a loss.



Mate, you have literally no idea what you're talking about, do you? (Also, a Triple Top Breakout sounds like something nasty you'd catch from a wild night out at the Lookout or the Midnight Sun. I think there are antibiotics for that.)


So here's the deal, and I'm going to stop making fun of you now.

Options are just another way to express your view on an underlying.

If you think the underlying is going up—whether that underlying is a single stock, a stock index, a currency, a commodity, an interest rate, whatever—the easiest way to express your point of view is just to buy the underlying.

Options let you express a more nuanced view on what the underlying's going to do.

If you think the underlying's going to rocket higher: you buy some low-delta calls. Small premium, maximum bang for your buck if your view is right.

If you think the underlying's going to go a bit higher, but not much: buy some 1x2 call spreads. Little to no premium, nice profit if your guess is right, but potential losses if you're wrong and the stock goes up a lot.

If you think the underlying's going to fart around in a range and then explode higher: buy a calendar spread (sell front-month calls, buy back-month calls). Pay some premium upfront, but less than you'd pay for the naked calls; the tradeoff is that if it moves before your short strike rolls off you're going to make less than you would have otherwise.

There are a squillion kinky-sounding variations on these strategies, as well. Collars! Strangle spreads! Strips and straps! Straddles! The point is that options let you express a more nuanced view than "it's going up" or "it's going down". If your view isn't more nuanced than "it's going up", then there's no point farting around with options; you'd be better off just trading the underlying.



Sure, you can sell naked options, I used to do that all the time when I did this professionally. The question is: how big are your balls, and how diligent is your risk-management? You're getting into the sort of area where you can't just set a stoploss order and go to bed.



There are no hard-and-fast rules here.

Let's use call spreads as an example. We'll look at the options on the CLN7 crude futures, since that's what you were talking about. Right now, the futures are trading 47.83, and the near-the-money options are trading as follows:

48 strike: 0.66
48.50 strike: 0.50
49 strike: 0.32
49.50 strike: 0.21

If you buy the 48-48.50 call spread, you'll pay 16 cents for a maximum payoff of 50 cents. That's a 3:1 payoff ratio.

If you buy the 48-49.50 call spread, you'll pay 41 cents for a maximum payoff of $1.50. That's a 3.6:1 payoff ratio, but with a lower chance of paying out (because the futures are less likely to reach 49.50 than they are to reach 48.50).

If you're going to do stuff like this, you need to ask yourself "where do I think the underlying's going to end up?". And then "OK, based on where I think the underlying's going to end up, what options strategy gives me the risk-return tradeoff that I want.


See below regarding "repair strategies". Basically they are a lie that charlatans tell to options naïfs.



Stop fixating on "repair". If a trade goes against you, you don't "repair" it, you don't double up to catch up; you close out of the trade and move on. Doubling up to "repair" a loss-making options position is what got Dave Bullen and Luke Duffy in half a billion dollars' worth of trouble.



Well yes, this is true by definition, because options can only ever end up expired or exercised; there's no third way.



Well hey, if someone was offering me any option for zero, my answer would be "I'll buy them all, how much do you want to sell me?".

Seriously though. If you've got a bunch of options that are basically worth zero, a good mental trick I learned is to write them off: mentally mark them at zero. (We used to move these into the "strip" book, because we were "stripping them out" of the position.) Don't hedge them; just ignore them entirely.

If the underlying moves back close to the strike price, and the options suddenly have value: woohoo, windfall gain! Sell 'em and pocket the cash. If they end up expiring, you've written them off anyway and accepted the loss.

Short options, on the other hand: yes, pay the five cents to buy them back. There's nothing worse than being short a truckload of low-delta options that you thought were basically dead, then having them come back to life as spot rockets toward the strike and cost you six or seven figures to close them out before they blow you up. Trust me on this.

Also, options usually trade in nickel increments (five cents).



Again, personal preference.



Mate this is gibberish, I don't even know what you're saying here.

Firstly, there are also "bull call spreads" and "bear put spreads".

Secondly, crude is not a one-way market. Over the last couple of decades it's gone from $12 to $150 to $20 to $50.

Thirdly, remember what I said above about "options are a way to express a more nuanced view on the market"? Iron condors (you don't need to capitalise it) are a way to express a view that "I think the underlying is going to be rangebound for the next week, month, three months, year, whatever".


Yes, that's the idea of short straddles and short condors and any other vol-selling trade. If you think the underlying's going to be rangebound, selling options lets you profit from that view—with the tradeoff that if you're wrong, and the stock is volatile, you're going to lose money, probably more than you put in.



Don't be a lunatic. No. Never put all your eggs in one basket, whether that basket is an option or a stock or a bond or even just sticking it in the bank.



Are you high?



No, seriously, are you high? This is not how diversification works. Diversification is for things that you're going to buy and hold, not for futures positions which are inherently things that you trade.



Mate, seriously, I have no idea what you're on about here. This is word salad.



OK, I will clarify your doubts by saying you should stay well away from options. You're welcome.

Anyway. PM me if you want some actual advice on this stuff from someone who did it professionally.



That's not a "repair" strategy, that's "double up to catch up". "Repair strategies" are lies that are sold to newbie options traders to persuade them that options are somehow a sure-win strategy.

If the stock drops from 140 to 120, your 100-95 put spread will have gone from (let's say) 50 cents to $1.50. You'll be locking in a $1 loss on the 100-95 put spread, and hoping that the 90-85 put spread expires worthless and bails you out.

The other thing is: what happens if there's a huge gap down, like SNAP, HTZ or YELP did just this week when they released earnings? If AAPL gaps from 140 to 95, your put spread will have gone from 50 cents to $4.00 or so, and you've just incinerated most of your capital. What do you do then?

By the way, are you a professional options trader because you attended some Options Course or you read it from a book?
 

scholar88

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Options is also not a popular investment instrument in SG. Many of the people either do not know about Options Trading or cannot understand how it works due to the complicated concepts.

There are very few Options Mastery Course out there in the market as not many are successful in trading options, and also it requires people to be receptive to this new idea of "options" as people viewed it as complicated, difficult to grasp the ideas in comparison the playing normal stocks. Unless the trainer can do a live trading with the students, and both the trainer and students make profit, then I would consider the trainer's method is good. To be a good trainer, they must prove to student through live trading- both trainer and students into live trading make profit, this shall be a testamanent of the trainer's profitable method. Hence, it really boils down which method allows me to earn the most profit, and not really the theory aspects of it, knowing all the theories of the different methods, straddle, iron condor, covered call, naked, vertical spread does not provide you an upperhand to it. But, which method and strategy, what is your rules and boundaries through many years of trial and error would allow you to make the most out of it.

This really requires a good Options Course trainer, a trainer which has gone through all types of options methods and has make losses and profits along the way. He will then choose and find which method is his most profitable one, which he can impart to students and confidently perform a live trading lesson with them and see whether 1 month later, a review lesson, does the whole class make? If yes, then he method works, then his students would most likely recommend to other students to his class.

If you read the notes, books and youtubes on options and do many self-learning, yes, I know every single theories on options, and tried trading but still losing money, then, my way of trading is wrong. So if anyone wants to trade options, you must find a trainer who dares to do a live trading with the class, and 1 month later, whole class makes, this then is really a great testament of his teaching. He dares to do this because he has done many years of trial and error, lose and make, but what ultimately allows him to make, he will choose that method. He will set the fixed boundaries, a range of DTE to choose from, you just have to follow the rules he set and the method he employs, you will make. There must be some sort of rules he wants you to follow so that to ensure your trade will be safe and eventually make. A good trainer is one which has conducted so many classes over the years, and past students can prove to the new students that they make. And the old students can also guide the new students, and both old and new can interact and old students can share whether they make, then this is a good course. Not some course where you cannot get any feedback from past students and you are in your own world, where you are cast aside when you are in trouble.

There is no need to do the hard way, trying all the types of methods of options trading yourself, and losing along the way, just find a successful options trainer, who is confident that he can do a live trade with you during his class and can prove to you, then you will see his method works. Don't look at the testimonials, it could be fake, but when a course say there is a live trading session, means that the trainer is confident in making, otherwise the whole class will request for a refund if they make a loss in their 1st trade, and they will not likely to recommend this trainer to their friends..

There is not much understanding in normal trading- buying normal stocks, just follow chart, fundamental news, buy low, sell high.

So, I am thinking you learn options trading yourself or attended some options mastery course.

You may seem knowledgeable but making profit in options is another different story. Being knowledgeable in something but not able to perform is a huge problem. Practical skills, trial and error on the different methods of trading is the key. If you have so much textbook knowledge on options, and when the real thing comes, you have to face it.

I can read notes on different instruments such as ETF, bonds, stocks, options, CFD, but ultimately what boils down is which type of investement allows you to make profit. I can be very knowledgeable in everything but which type of instrument allows me to earn the most profit, and the most comfortable way of investing.

This is a vital question. So I am thinking out of 10 trades in options trading, how many do you make?
 
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scholar88

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You must be new around here. Don't be a punk, boy.

New to investing or new to this forum? If I am new to this forum, I can't voice out my opinion?

Does it mean you are active in this Money Mind forum means you are an experienced and profitable trader? Huh?

Arrogant.
 
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sgdividends

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Shiny definitely knows his stuff and he isn't a show off. Been learning tons from him and he has been one of the most..If not the most generous in helping. Definitely he didn't go to option course before I think..

Can voice la..
 

unhinged_loon

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New to investing or new to this forum? If I am new to this forum, I can't voice out my opinion?

Does it mean you are active in this Money Mind forum means you are an experienced and profitable trader? Huh?

Arrogant.

Oh, you are the one who sounds like the one showing off. You are the one challenging others on their profitability.

Go take a look in the mirror.
 

scholar88

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Shiny definitely knows his stuff and he isn't a show off. Been learning tons from him and he has been one of the most..If not the most generous in helping. Definitely he didn't go to option course before I think..

Can voice la..

Thanks for your reply. Just voicing my opinions, I also feel his knowledge on options is good and he is helpful to give others what he knows. I am just asking about the profitability of it.
 
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scholar88

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Oh, you are the one who sounds like the one showing off. You are the one challenging others on their profitability.

Go take a look in the mirror.

I did not challenge others, I am just voicing out my opinions. It is a right to voice out, I did not say who is correct or wrong. Why are you so angry about this trivial issue, and be so "crude" in your words? Aiyo😆

"Look at mirror"? I did not say I'm good, everyone has their own flaws, including me, I cannot understand why are you so judgemental and against others having their opinions? You may agree or disagree, I did not question others, just saying what I feel?
 
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sgdividends

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Thanks for your reply. Just voicing my opinions, I also feel his knowledge on options is good. I am just asking about the profitability of it.

Just to share..i actually did some spreads a few years ago using the SPY or SPX cant remember..using optionsxpress and i was making some income monthly for 5 months consistently averaging between 3-8% pa...then the 6th month came and it wiped out all my 5 months of minimal income and lose a little only..then i stopped ...reminds me of what WB says picking up pennies in front of a steam roller..

Regarding repairing of trades, i did try but i gave up as it was just again earning minimal amount to lessen the loss but expose myself to another big loss if it went awry..

So in summary..like picking pennis in front of a steam roller..
 

scholar88

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Just to share..i actually did some spreads a few years ago using the SPY or SPX cant remember..using optionsxpress and i was making some income monthly for 5 months consistently averaging between 3-8% pa...then the 6th month came and it wiped out all my 5 months of minimal income and lose a little only..then i stopped ...reminds me of what WB says picking up pennies in front of a steam roller..

Regarding repairing of trades, i did try but i gave up as it was just again earning minimal amount to lessen the loss but expose myself to another big loss if it went awry..

So in summary..like picking pennis in front of a steam roller..

Yup, that is why if you want to trade such complicated instrument tools like options, go for a options course. Go for a successful trainer who can do a live trading with you and prove that the whole class can make..

It is not like stock trading, easy to learn, options is a tool where you really need a trainer to guide along, not any trainer, but a trainer who had gone through lots of trial and error.

Yup, I also feel repairing can be quite difficult to save a trade, so in panic situation, nothing can be done to save it but to close your losses.. hence, your price direction must still be not very wrong otherwise you may lose a lot.

But as compared to normal stocks trading, options require low capital (due to leverage), time value works for you, when you are wrong you still make money, able to make money when market is bearish, can be used as hedging.
 
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jinn

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Yup, that is why if you want to trade such complicated instrument tools like options, go for a options course. Go for a successful trainer who can do a live trading with you and prove that the whole class can make..

So go to a course and then share with us which one you go to and what you learn. Thank you in advance!
 

scholar88

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So go to a course and then share with us which one you go to and what you learn. Thank you in advance!

Of course, if I ever attended a course, I cannot share the knowledge I learn, otherwise the company will come after me.. The methods they taught must only be shared within the class who have paid the course fees, otherwise unfair to the students..😀

But what I can say, is there are some really good courses out there, just follow the rules, you can have a higher probabiity of making, through the testament of their past students and the trainer can also prove to the students by doing a live trading on 1 month later in the next review class, all make together. And seldom you would find any trainers in the market dare to do a live trading, on the spot, in the fear that they may not be confident of it. The past students can even guide you along, where students (past or present) can interact in a private group, and a trainer inside the group.
 
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sAVaGEmP5

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Thanks all for replying!

Let's say it's interactive brokers and cboe ones, American style and I sold a naked call.
1) can the market price exceeds the strike price and it's not exercised and then later market price goes below strike price and expire worthless?

2) actually , how does the exercise procedure take place ? I guess there is a market maket as a counter party but how much in the money does he want to wait before he exercise ?

3) if I own some spy etfs, and I sold some covered spy calls . How does interactive brokers link these spy etfs to these spy calls ? I mean interactive brokers may think I sold naked spy etfs calls..Is there a button to click to link them?

Thanks Shiny, glad u replied..About the shenigans it's too high level for me..Maybe when I get the basics right I ask u again ...Serious knowledge u got there!


For 1) yes, those are in the money options, and u can always buy or sell them. But that doesnt meant you will want to exercise them, since the buyer wld have paid the ask price, and the seller wld have paid the bid. Hence they are simply speculating.

2) it takes 2 or 3 days to exercise and soon your account will either reflect minus or plus the no. of exercised stock

3) For IB it doesnt link. In fact nobody does linking, perhaps its a feature of the broker UI to link so u can refer it visually.

When u sell an SPY call, it will probably check if you have 100 SPY stocks in your portfolio. If yes, Margin used will be lesser (since u already use margin for the 100 SPY). If no, it will deduct the equivalent based on risk of the SPY. Of cos margin calculations is another topic by itself... And if you are assigned, ur account will just reflect that u shorted 100 SPY at $X.
 
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scholar88

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He f*king traded in a bank for years as an employee. You have no freaking idea. :s8:

I would like to share that does not mean being an investment trader in a bank, means you are a succesful and profitable trader. At times, you may lose money for the bank.. And bank would only allow you to trade those that are safe, i.e. blue chips stocks, fundamentally strong stocks.

Also by trading for the bank, you have little exposure to different investment instruments and many counters as they will not allow you to trade those risky one..

So knowledge does not equate to results, but of course helping others gain some theory is good, but for the sake of learning only, understand how it flows.

For live trading using real money, is a different ball game. You really need a specialised and perfect technique to ensure your probability of winning a trade is higher. Such requires many years of trial and error, trying out different instrument tools, counters, making and losing along the way. But, only the one strategy with its system and guidelines allows you to make the most out of it.

Practical skills really comes a long way. Good Knowledge is good, but some people can find their own shorcuts in trading by using their own system and guidelines. We just have to learn from these successful traders from their system, and gain from it, instead of doing the hard way, finding all the methods and strategies that works.. of course, you need to pay a premium first before learning from their succesful traders, some sort of an investment..

So knowledge and specialised method of trading is two different thing. Knowledge allows you to know more about something, but when comes to actual trading, sole knowledge does not give you an upperhand. You need to go through many cycles of highs and lows, and find the best method of trading, with a certain system, rules, boundaries and guidlelines.

That is why for investment, cannot solely read books, website, youtube, you really need a system and guidelines to follow. The knowledge are just facts, market is always evolving, this knowledge only serves as an understanding, not a fool-proof one. So, it really is up to an individual, providing guidance in trading to someone should be meant to explain some concepts in which the person cannot understand but cannot be used to judge a person's method of trading or teach them a way of method of trading unless the person can prove that he/she is a succesful trader. 😀
 
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w1rbelw1nd

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I don't think it is difficult for anyone to see that you are biased against non-option forms of trading/ investing. Perhaps the information that you are seeking out is to further reinforce your own idea that option trading is superior to other methods?

Hope all parties keep an open mind :)

I would like to share that does not mean being an investment trader in a bank, means you are a succesful and profitable trader. At times, you may lose money for the bank.. And bank would only allow you to trade those that are safe, i.e. blue chips stocks, fundamentally strong.
 

scholar88

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I don't think it is difficult for anyone to see that you are biased against non-option forms of trading/ investing. Perhaps the information that you are seeking out is to further reinforce your own idea that option trading is superior to other methods?

Hope all parties keep an open mind :)

But do you agree it is a fact that options has such benefits as shown below:
1. Low Capital (Using Leverage)
2. The time value works for you
3. When you are wrong, you still make money
4. Able to make money when market is bearish
5. Might be used as Hedging

Did not say it is a superior tool, but it has these above benefits. Just saying different tools has its pros and cons.
 
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