Pondering about CPF life payout

AMD_FREAK

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I punched in some numbers in CPF life payout calculator and found out that if I have 350k in there, I can receive at least $2,614 a month when I turn 65. It equates to 8.9% p.a. risk free.

It sounds attractive! To attain 350k when I reach 65 requires me to pump in about $500 every month religiously from now, and let it compound 4%. It's fairly easy for me to do so every month for the next 28 years.

From now till I die, I don't mind parking up to 350k with CPF to lock up. It can be passed down to my wife / kids.

However looking at the larger picture, are there any factors I have overlooked, or should have taken into consideration?
 

Hwsemb

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Should it be to have 350k at age=55 (not 65)?

Assuming interest 4%, it will compound to about 518k at age 65.

$2614/mth payout seems right based on amount 518k.
 

BBCWatcher

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It's a good deal, although (repeating myself) I'm planning to defer payouts to age 70 then choose the Escalating Plan. I recommend you make the same plan, and plan the rest of your retirement savings/investing around that CPF LIFE plan (age 70/Escalating), whether or not you actually end up following that plan. That's the most sensible way to make sure you've got enough real lifetime income. And don't forget your spouse/partner!

I would make one minor adjustment to your idea: make your top-up annually, in late January (but allow a few days for crediting within January). The reason is that you pick up more interest that way, because CPF calculates interest monthly. If $5,500 of your $6,000/year is delayed, then you lose attractive compounded interest on those delayed dollars for the months they're delayed. If you struggle to afford that annual January top-up, consider making at least partial OA to SA transfers (which you should do anyway if you don't need every OA dollar as OA, for housing).

If you can start this effort now, this month, then again in January, fantastic. The tax relief window is closing for 2018 (Year of Assessment 2019) later this month (December, 2018).
 
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dork32

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I punched in some numbers in CPF life payout calculator and found out that if I have 350k in there, I can receive at least $2,614 a month when I turn 65. It equates to 8.9% p.a. risk free.

It sounds attractive! To attain 350k when I reach 65 requires me to pump in about $500 every month religiously from now, and let it compound 4%. It's fairly easy for me to do so every month for the next 28 years.

From now till I die, I don't mind parking up to 350k with CPF to lock up. It can be passed down to my wife / kids.

However looking at the larger picture, are there any factors I have overlooked, or should have taken into consideration?

1. how are you going to park 350k at 55 in your ra if the ers is 240+k?
2. if you are looking at passing what is left to your wife and kids, you better look at basic. standard does not earn you interest.
 

OngHuatHuat

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I think you are correct.

Should it be to have 350k at age=55 (not 65)?

Assuming interest 4%, it will compound to about 518k at age 65.

$2614/mth payout seems right based on amount 518k.
 

OngHuatHuat

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The whole RA will be used for cpf annuity payout.

Exact interest during the payout period remains unknown, my personal guess is around 2-3 % during the cpf life payout period.

does part of the interest from the RA after age 55 go directly to paying the annuities for CPF Life ?
 

dork32

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The whole RA will be used for cpf annuity payout.

Exact interest during the payout period remains unknown, my personal guess is around 2-3 % during the cpf life payout period.

the exact interest in the payout period is known

it is 0% for standard and escalating.

it is 4+% for basic
 

dork32

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does part of the interest from the RA after age 55 go directly to paying the annuities for CPF Life ?

based on ts calculation, a payout of 8.9% with 0 interest will deplete you principal is 11 years. your bequest for standard does not hit 0 at 76. it hits 0 at 81.

the interest in the ra does contribute to the final payout.

or you can try to key in this numbers:

350k at 55 vs 350k at 65
you will realize that the payout is much higher for 350k at 55.
 

havetheveryfun

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based on ts calculation, a payout of 8.9% with 0 interest will deplete you principal is 11 years. your bequest for standard does not hit 0 at 76. it hits 0 at 81.

the interest in the ra does contribute to the final payout.

or you can try to key in this numbers:

350k at 55 vs 350k at 65
you will realize that the payout is much higher for 350k at 55.

yup of course it does contribute.. what i mean is does the number stay inside the CPF account or it is deducted (i.e. paid directly to part of the annuities)..

because my father is 60+ and his min sum was only around 100k, but after 8-10 years plus the sum there is still only around 110k, logically it should be 140k or more already.. though he has been withdrawing money out every birthday ..maybe i am wrong need to check the numbers again..
 

Hwsemb

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does part of the interest from the RA after age 55 go directly to paying the annuities for CPF Life ?

My understanding is our commitment to start CPF LIFE (whether to choose standard plan, escalating plan...) will begin from age 65 onwards.

So from age 55 to 64, our RA will 'function' like our SA, earning purely 4% interest, without committing to CPF Life yet.

@dork32, if TS is quite young now, when he reaches age 55, say in about 20 years time, the minimum sum for ERS (Enhanced) will possibly be increased to be above 400k.
 
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SBC

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My understanding is our commitment to start CPF LIFE (whether to choose standard plan, escalating plan...) will begin from age 65 onwards.

So from age 55 to 64, our RA will 'function' like our SA, earning purely 4% interest, without committing to CPF Life yet.

Commitment for CPF Life starts at 55, cos this is when the lockdown starts. Drawn down starts at 65 to 67, subject to new pope-shifting.
 

maple96

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Commitment for CPF Life starts at 55, cos this is when the lockdown starts. Drawn down starts at 65 to 67, subject to new pope-shifting.

Dun talk Rubbish! At 55, FRS will be transferred from OA/SA to RA, at 65 u decide which CPF Life plan u want to join when u start payout but can delay payout and decision on plan till 70. U can still change your mind not to join CPF Life before 70, if u opt to due to circumstances.
 

BBCWatcher

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Whoa, we've already got a lot of misunderstandings of fact in this thread. That was quick. ;)

1. how are you going to park 350k at 55 in your ra if the ers is 240+k?
The 2018 Enhanced Retirement Sum is $256,500. The 2019 and 2020 figures are already announced, and they increase 2.8 to 2.9% per year.

But let's pretend for a moment we don't know the 2019 and 2020 figures, and let's assume AMD_FREAK is age 40 today. Taking $256,500 and adding 2.5% per year compounded we get to $371,488 in only 15 years (2033 dollars). That's more than $350K, so there you go, that's the answer to how you park $350,000 at age 55 in your Retirement Account. Easy.

Hwsemb also pointed out how this works, but I'm just illustrating the point with some sample math.

2. if you are looking at passing what is left to your wife and kids, you better look at basic. standard does not earn you interest.
No, and no. All CPF LIFE plans are actuarially fair, none of the CPF LIFE payout plans guarantees a bequest, and all CPF LIFE payout plans feature decreasing nominal bequests once payouts start. CPF LIFE is not well designed for bequests. Among CPF's programs, MediSave is actually the best designed for bequests (although it's not ideal for that purpose either).

If you want to assure a bequest, there are better, more effective financial products to do that, most particularly whole life insurance products, and you can even buy such products using surplus CPF dollars if you wish. CPF LIFE can be an extremely effective tool to help defend a bequest (and, better yet, lifetime gifts), but it is not itself designed well to deliver bequests.

You can try using a screwdriver to hammer a nail, but it's not a great idea. Likewise, you can try using CPF LIFE to deliver a particular bequest (rather than to defend one), but it doesn't actually work.

My understanding is our commitment to start CPF LIFE (whether to choose standard plan, escalating plan...) will begin from age 65 onwards.
No, the commitment only starts(*) when you start receiving payouts (i.e very shortly before, when you make a payout decision). If you do nothing, the default is that payouts start at age 70 (and my understanding is the default payout plan is the Standard Plan). Any other outcome requires you to do something, to take specific action. The CPF Board will send you occasional love letters, but if you simply do nothing, that's what happens (age 70 start, default payout plan).

(*) There is a partial commitment if/when you make Special Account and Retirement Account top-ups (which typically qualify for tax relief), but that partial commitment is not a commitment to the payout starting date or to the payout plan. And there are still exceptions for acceptable substitute life annuities, or loss or termination of Singapore status.

Commitment for CPF Life starts at 55, cos this is when the lockdown starts.
No, that's only when a Retirement Account is formed. But RA funds are not "locked," not all of them anyway. In particular, you can make a property pledge and pick any CPF LIFE participation level between the Basic Retirement Sum (plus SA top-ups) and the Full Retirement Sum, and you can make that pledge any time up until just before your 70th birthday and before CPF LIFE payouts start. You can then withdraw any RA funds that aren't participating at any time you wish, or leave them be.

Drawn down starts at 65 to 67, subject to new pope-shifting.
No, CPF LIFE payouts start at age 70 unless you take specific action. If you choose to start payouts earlier, they can start any time earlier, as early as age 65. (Maple96 pointed this out, too.)
 
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culture_counter

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Whoa, we've already got a lot of misunderstandings of fact in this thread. That was quick. ;)
..................................
No, CPF LIFE payouts start at age 70 unless you take specific action. If you choose to start payouts earlier, they can start any time earlier, as early as age 65. (Maple96 pointed this out, too.)

Yes, it's true. The govt is very tactful and had come up with this ingenious idea as quoted above by BBCWatcher. Many cpf members are afraid of new drawdown age increasing to 67, or even 70, depending on their cohort. But the new policy has allayed all these unwanted fears of uncertainty. At age 65, cpfboard will send you a mail asking if you want to start monthly drawdown at age 65, and if you choose to ignore, the default will be that there will be no drawdown from 65 until 70, which is the mandatory age for the drawdown to kick in. So this is an opt-out system; if you do not reply or inform cpf you want to drawdown at 65, then no action taken until anytime bewtween 65 to 70 that you choose to inform them, then the drawdown will begin. Very ingenious think tank policy indeed!
No fears, unless you are illiterate, alienated or dementia-ed at age 65 or before, you can still make a logical choice; to start drawdown or delay drawdown at 65.
Hope this clears the doubts!
 

maple96

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Whoa, we've already got a lot of misunderstandings of fact in this thread. That was quick. ;)


No, that's only when a Retirement Account is formed. But RA funds are not "locked," not all of them anyway. In particular, you can make a property pledge and pick any CPF LIFE participation level between the Basic Retirement Sum (plus SA top-ups) and the Full Retirement Sum, and you can make that pledge any time up until just before your 70th birthday and before CPF LIFE payouts start. You can then withdraw any RA funds that aren't participating at any time you wish, or leave them be.

You are having lots of misunderstandings of fact or r u talking rubbish also?

U can pledge property to withdraw up to 50% of FRS so long u have the funds in RA!

U cannot withdraw RA funds at any time u wish! It will be paid out as mthly payout. U can withdraw 20% of RA (excluding topups, etc) at 65!
 
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