Problems with Genneva Payout

[sinvestg]

Business Times Article on Genneva (25/9/2012)

Gold trading firm taken to court by customer
She wins interim judgment; other lawsuits may follow
BYGENEVIEVE CUA

 

[Goodwood]

Has anyone heard of the rescue plan from the gold guarantee?

Heard they have 2 schemes, 1 where they buy your gold at a better than market price and another where they allow you to continue your contract with genneva with them instead, after you pay a top up amount.

How much of a better than market price do Gold Gurantee plan to buy the gold? I think enuf of my parent Kena 2nd time con with any contract. All these written contract are deceiving ... And give people false sense of security.

 

[mosaic1979]

Hi Gennevacomplaingroup, kindly include me in your discussion. Tks.

Who would expect Genneva to fold up? Their chairman was said to be the daughter of Pahang Sultan. And didnt Dr. M grace their opening ceremony??

Well the moment my friend explained about how it worked to me some time back alarm bells went off immediately. I had charles ponzi and bernard madoff screaming in my head.

If its so easy to make 2% a month they won t need to work to ask anybody for money already lo. Just sit at home shake legs collect money.

And ummm in my personal opinion I think Dr M s abit cuckoo ....

 

[Goodwood]

Gold trading firm taken to court by customer
She wins interim judgment; other lawsuits may follow

Genneva Pte Ltd, a gold trading company offering a "buyback" scheme, appears to be in hot water.

At least one customer has recently won an interlocutory judgment against it in the Subordinate Court, pending an assessment of damages. It remains to be seen, however, whether she will recover her claim of about $190,000. Genneva failed to respond to the writ of summons or to contest the case.

The plaintiff, Lee Bee Ghok, is represented by Goh Kok Yeow of De Souza Lim & Goh.

A second writ of summons has also been filed in the Subordinate Court claiming a total sum of roughly $86,000.

A number of other customers are also looking into launching a lawsuit against the firm for its alleged failure to honour its part of the agreement to buy back gold. One group of about 60 customers, representing a total of roughly $10 million in gold purchases, is understood to be consulting lawyers.

Genneva is on the Monetary Authority of Singapore's Investor Alert list of unlicensed entities. Its scheme basically sells gold to customers at a hefty premium of 20-30 per cent. Customers, however, are told that they enjoy a "discount" of about 2 per cent off the headline price.

They are given the option to sell back the gold after a pre-agreed term of one month or three months. The gold can be sold back at the headline price and customers get to pocket the so-called discount. Assuming monthly rollovers, this could mean a return of as much as 24 per cent a year.

Genneva's website lists a price of $96 per gram as at August. This is the equivalent of about $96,000 per kilobar of gold. UOB, which offers gold investment services, sells gold to the public at about $74,500 per kilobar.

Sources said that the firm had also offered a "safekeeping receipt" (SKR) scheme some years ago, where the customer does not take delivery of physical gold. The gold is held by the company for safekeeping, and customers can exercise the option to withdraw via a "sellback".

Genneva director Leow Wee Khong could not be reached. Calls and e-mail to the company were not answered.

More recently, a source said, customers were marketed a scheme similar to SKR, but under a contract linked to a Malaysian company.

BT understands that in the last few months, customers have not been able to sell back their gold. Agents are also owed commissions for up to six or seven months. Customers that BT spoke with managed to make at least one rollover, earning 2 per cent, after which some invested yet more money.

Spot gold price touched a high of US$1,888 per ounce last year. It is now trading at US$1,759.

Customers who bought from Genneva are in a bind because of the high premium paid. Those BT spoke with paid between $91,000 and $93,000 per kilobar. UOB will buy back from the public at about $69,400 based on yesterday's indicative prices.

Some customers are believed to have filed police reports. A police spokesman said: "It is inappropriate to comment on police investigations, if any."

Based on Genneva's latest available filings, 2009 revenue came to $236 million. Assets totalled $67 million and liabilities, $68 million. Paid-up capital came to $500,000. The company was registered in 2008 with four directors, three of whom are Malaysian.

The three Malaysians - Marcus Yee Yuen Seng, Ng Poh Weng and Chin Wai Leong - are also directors of Genneva Sdn Bhd. They are being sued by Bank Negara in Malaysia for alleged illegal deposit taking and alleged offences under anti-money laundering laws. The case is ongoing.

In Singapore, there are four apparently related Genneva companies registered as businesses. Apart from Genneva Pte Ltd, there is also Genneva Remittance, set up ostensibly for remittance services, and Genneva Syariah, described as gold bullion traders and dealers.

In March, Genneva World Pte Ltd was registered also for gold trading. It has six Singaporean directors, one of whom is Mr Leow, the Genneva director.

Customers are concerned that assets of Genneva are being transferred to Genneva World, which is expected to trade on a similar business model. Sources say that some customers have been invited to transfer their contracts to Genneva World, but they are asked to keep 30 per cent of their gold holding with the company.

Genneva's model appears to fall into a grey regulatory area. Because there is typically a physical purchase of gold, the company is not classified as an investment adviser. The so-called discount that customers are extended is also not described as a yield or return.

Meanwhile, on its website, the MAS warns against schemes that dangle high returns, citing gold buyback schemes. It urges customers to question how the returns are generated, and whether the operators are regulated.

Gold trading firm taken to court by customer

Thank you Arty for extracting this article for reading without buying the whole business time just to read this page related to this forum. Thank u

 

[Goodwood]

Tungsten rods clearly seen within the 1kg Metalor gold bar. And thinking 500g or 50g bars cannot be done? Think again.

Good luck to those who exchange their UOB or Pamp Gold with some unknown Geneva brand.

Every scam would have people who are gulible to fall into it. Knowledge is wisdom, unfortunately many can't be bothered to acquire it.

Cheers.

Pictures such as these offer valuable knowledge and insight, and without the ignorance of my parents, I would never in my whole life knew of such sophiscated money game and such imitation gold.

 

[Goodwood]

MYFOXNY.COM - In jewelry stores on 47th Street and Fifth Avenue the important trust between merchants has been violated. A 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit.

The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce.

Ibrahim Fadl bought the bar from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold.

What makes so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation.

MTB, the Swiss manufacturer of the gold bars, said customers should only buy from a reputable merchant. The problem, he admits, is Ibrahim Fadl is a very reputable merchant.

Raymond Nessim, CEO Manfra, Tordell & Brookes, said he has reported the situation to the FBI and Secret Service.

The Secret Service, which deals with counterfeits, said it is investigating.

In March, gold bars filled with tungsten showed up in England. With New York now hit, it may mean an international ring is involved.

Read more: Fake gold bars turn up in Manhattan - New York News | NYC Breaking News

If counterfeit gold can happen in New York, will it happen in Singapore? Especially when Genneva previously wanted customers to send in the sealed UOB bar for data dotted, and how real is the Genneva "data dotted" gold? It was reported that such counterfeiting of gold possibly a syndicate job ..."question, questions marks"

 

[RunwayQueen]

ONE OF GENNEVA'S GOLD SCAM VICTIM

understand that the latest news of genneva is out today on BT.


Dear all:

my mom is also one of the victims. being an elderly, she couldn't help it too. this world is full of scammers. ok thats besides the story.

we have also sent out a lawyer letter last weekend. however when we went down to genneva this monday but we were informed that genneva also have engaged a lawyer which will be talking on behalf of genneva this wed, which is tmr. ALL OF THE ROOMS were vacant, NO IN CHARGE was around. All hiding inside their holes. They will not show up until after 5PM, when the centre is closed from the public. Also, my "consultant" have not informed me of any memo yet regarding this lawyer talk. My lawyer have also received a letter from genneva's lawyer stating that they need 14 days to resolve this matter and get back to my lawyer.


MY ADVICE:

- To those who have the gold in hand, KEEP THEM SAFE WITH YOU. Go to a pawn shop/gold shop to check its authenticity. (I've went to Money Max and checked. Genneva gold is real. Suisse gold is definitely real as they have a UNIQUE serial number.

- DO NOT PARK YOUR GOLD WITH THEM. (as advised from my "consultant") If u park your gold with them now, they will try to psycho you to join their new company called "GENNEVA WORLD". FYI, this company's initial capital is only SGD$7. Fishy huh?

- GO REPORT TO CAD / REPORT TO SPF. Yes i know it might be useless, but it raises AWARENESS. If we blow this up, the SPF will look into it as there are many victims.



anything pls PM me.

 

[blurboiboi]

understand that the latest news of genneva is out today on BT.


Dear all:

my mom is also one of the victims. being an elderly, she couldn't help it too. this world is full of scammers. ok thats besides the story.

we have also sent out a lawyer letter last weekend. however when we went down to genneva this monday but we were informed that genneva also have engaged a lawyer which will be talking on behalf of genneva this wed, which is tmr. ALL OF THE ROOMS were vacant, NO IN CHARGE was around. All hiding inside their holes. They will not show up until after 5PM, when the centre is closed from the public. Also, my "consultant" have not informed me of any memo yet regarding this lawyer talk. My lawyer have also received a letter from genneva's lawyer stating that they need 14 days to resolve this matter and get back to my lawyer.


MY ADVICE:

- To those who have the gold in hand, KEEP THEM SAFE WITH YOU. Go to a pawn shop/gold shop to check its authenticity. (I've went to Money Max and checked. Genneva gold is real. Suisse gold is definitely real as they have a UNIQUE serial number.

- DO NOT PARK YOUR GOLD WITH THEM. (as advised from my "consultant") If u park your gold with them now, they will try to psycho you to join their new company called "GENNEVA WORLD". FYI, this company's initial capital is only SGD$7. Fishy huh?

- GO REPORT TO CAD / REPORT TO SPF. Yes i know it might be useless, but it raises AWARENESS. If we blow this up, the SPF will look into it as there are many victims.



anything pls PM me.

is it possible to get a search warrant to search through their vaults?... no point sueing them if they have already emptied their vaults.... and I don't think they have the money to pay up the renewals and discounts already...

 

[RunwayQueen]

they have no money now so the best is not to park in your gold with them anymore. most likely they have emptied their vaults.

 

[stargazer008]

Any offer from Gold Guarantee, pls take it with a pinch of salt. Gold price is projected to rise to $ 1950 USD/ounce by year end. If this materializes, those with gold will be able to sell and cut loss. Or option to wait further.

Most important thing now is to verify that your gold is REAL!

 

[drago88]

We can safely say that Genneva masterminds have had their exit strategy fully planned from day 1.

 

[bearbearfury]

I am very curious They are still in operation. Shouldn't the police use search warrant to search their vault after after all the law suit, complain to police etc.

I went down on monday and the operation mgr said to the consultants to talk to their lawyer on this wed. can see that those sales consultants are desperate now over the parking of the gold for renewal or checking.

my question in my mind is what is the total volume of the transaction affected, i was guessing it to be $100 million at least. They have 2000 consultants. Each is obliged to sell at least 2kg of gold. This is worst that those Spa scam.

 

[ChickNorris]

Hi People,
I am also a victim. please PM me any progress. Million thanks in advance

 

[SuperHunk3488]

Still got people willing to KANA con AGAIN!!!

I am very curious They are still in operation. Shouldn't the police use search warrant to search their vault after after all the law suit, complain to police etc.

I went down on monday and the operation mgr said to the consultants to talk to their lawyer on this wed. can see that those sales consultants are desperate now over the parking of the gold for renewal or checking.

my question in my mind is what is the total volume of the transaction affected, i was guessing it to be $100 million at least. They have 2000 consultants. Each is obliged to sell at least 2kg of gold. This is worst that those Spa scam.

Because still got people support them mah.. (those stupid OLD timer)
Nowaday... everybody also KANA poison by the word "PHYSICAL"
why "PHYSICAL" in the first place?!?!

in the 80's if you wanna borrow some cash for some reason and the only way for you to get it with trust is... in exchange of something else...
so if you wanna borrow $50 from someone you might consider parking your bicycle with him before he lend you the $50

This malaysia genneva scheme used the same tactic to spooks those investors mind set!!! make them feel so comfortable with "over pricing gold bar" on hand (how dumb can they be???)

 

[Paramis]

Hi just received a call from Gold Guarantee, inviting me to a 1 hour free seminar on gold investment & will get a $50 voucher also. The lady who called claimed that she gets my contact no from the company. any one received such calls?

 

[climber99]

Hi just received a call from Gold Guarantee, inviting me to a 1 hour free seminar on gold investment & will get a $50 voucher also. The lady who called claimed that she gets my contact no from the company. any one received such calls?

Think by now, many Genneva agents will have already jumped ship to competitors like GG, APB, etc. So its not surprising to see your contacts being circulated to other similar gold companies.

But can always go and get the voucher then leave lor haha. Free voucher why not if you have the time and there is no other obligation in order to get the voucher. Just know not sign or commit to anything on the spot.

 

[stargazer008]

The founders of Gold Guarantee were ex-agents from Genneva. The same old buy-back scheme. The difference is they offer lower return 1.7% and they only sell physical gold within limited qty transactions per day.

And yes, many agents have switched to, or 2-timing, when they did not receive the comm from Genneva. Fact is these agents already know something is brewing at Gene, but still persuade customers to load up new orders. So do you trust the same agents again?

In all, they are ponzi scams. Gold Guarantee is still new company, but once they have enuf suckers loading up their coffers, I am afraid the same thing will happen again. De ja vue!

 

[mosaic1979]

The founders of Gold Guarantee were ex-agents from Genneva. The same old buy-back scheme. The difference is they offer lower return 1.7% and they only sell physical gold within limited qty transactions per day.

And yes, many agents have switched to, or 2-timing, when they did not receive the comm from Genneva. Fact is these agents already know something is brewing at Gene, but still persuade customers to load up new orders. So do you trust the same agents again?

In all, they are ponzi scams. Gold Guarantee is still new company, but once they have enuf suckers loading up their coffers, I am afraid the same thing will happen again. De ja vue!

haha. Not trying to rub salt to the wound but I really can t believe there re so many greedy suckers out there who believe in this. I just thought with the population getting more educated you re gonna see less people falling for such scams. Its gonna sound cruel but I guess its a fair way to level the economy out. Else rich keep getting richer. Unfortunately the poor get sucked into this too.

 

[optima]

Strong presence in five countries as said by Datuk Joseph Kow, but how come he was not aware and informed, Genneva Singapore was taken to court by customers for failure to honour the sell-back, delaying and nil payment of discount payout.

Furthermore, failure to return customer's gold bars, when Genneva Singapore management requested its customers to park their goldbars with the company for 3 working days for renewal and for the purpose of inspection & adding data-dot. Gold submitted and parked since early September2012, many gold bars were still not returned to customers within the time frame. Management staff was not in the office to answer details on unreturned gold. Staff there refuse to answer customer queries by citing the same excuses daily either the computer system down or they are very new in the company and not sure of anything.

Whats their intention? Are they in attempt not to return the goldbars to customers, or trying errrr..errr... to hide/take/steal the gold bars and run away soon.


Source:
gennevaworld.com.my/index.php/the-star-excellent-opportunities-with-genneva/]The[/url] Star: Excellent Opportunities with Genneva | Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd

Below quoted by: Datuk Joseph Kow, Regional director and Gold Bullion Entrepreneurs Association of Malaysia(GBeam) secretary-general in Star paper, "Excellent opportunities with Genneva", 15sept12, .

"We have a strong international presence in Singapore, China, Indonesia and the Philippines," he said, adding that Genneva's chairman is Tengku Muhaini Sultan Ahmad Shah, the daughter of the Sultan of Pahang.

 

[climber99]

Strong presence in five countries as said by Datuk Joseph Kow, but how come he was not aware and informed, Genneva Singapore was taken to court by customers for failure to honour the sell-back, delaying and nil payment of discount payout.

Furthermore, failure to return customer's gold bars, when Genneva Singapore management requested its customers to park their goldbars with the company for 3 working days for renewal and for the purpose of inspection & adding data-dot. Gold submitted and parked since early September2012, many gold bars were still not returned to customers within the time frame. Management staff was not in the office to answer details on unreturned gold. Staff there refuse to answer customer queries by citing the same excuses daily either the computer system down or they are very new in the company and not sure of anything.

Whats their intention? Are they in attempt not to return the goldbars to customers, or trying errrr..errr... to hide/take/steal the gold bars and run away soon.

Actually the situation now, even if other country got funds to save SG they also won't bring in la. No point what. Money will just be frozen or used to payout the customers who want out by the lawsuits. Which is probably what caused this situation. Too many sellbacks and gold price never go up for too long.

But if they start another new company, they have no obligation with these customer who want to sellback. They can just offer to "transfer" to those "loyal" customers to continue the program.