Profitable Group - is it credible?

[GeorgeBoron]

PG is passing away

I call PG numbers today and they seem to have disactivate them. The line immediately goes to answering machine even the main switchboard line. So seems we are witnessing PG death those days

 

[anatolian]

Chandra Muniandy Group Sales Director Profitable Group Convicted and fined $40000 3/8/2008 1 count under section 22 of the Business Registration Act- Management of a business as an undisclosed bankrupt. 4 counts under section 82(1A) of the Bankruptcy Act Bankrupt to submit Accounts.

Hi Cleetus, from where did you get this information and when did it happened?

 

[GeorgeBoron]

Did u get any reply on this? Looking as well for a lawyer to take action against PG....
you can send me a private msg here or email at sofokllis75@hotmail.com

It is all too obvious- PG is insolvent and should Bonifacio indeed exists it may be sold so the directors can run... What are you all doing about it? Has anyone successfully sued? Any lawyer recommendation? Should we group ourselves?

 

[Cleetus]

Hi Cleetus, from where did you get this information and when did it happened?

www.cad.gov.sg I was just researching them all. Got a hostile phone call from Chandra when I threatened to spread it around if I didn't get my money. Some of his colleages didn't know!
Had a letter in the Borneo Bulletin (Brunei) and was contacted by a former employee in February. The main points of which were:
Boron is illegal in Brunei- they only presented the land banking for which they were cleared. The boron was mis-represented.
The project in the Phillipines has been abandoned because the person who was going to buy the land went bankrupt- any talk of waiting for the money from there is nonsense.
One of the main reasons the money is gone is because of the Liverpool tour which was a complete disaster- total waste of our money.
Want a laugh ? Chandra made a presentation on :"Wealth Building" on 1st August at a property seminar in KL !! www.horlic.com

 

[GeorgeBoron]

Hi!

I entered in AAA in December 5, 2009. I am reporting PG as depsite they knew there was a problem and there were not paying past investors even the promised interest they were still trying to make money from new investors.

Could you pls help me have you as a reference to my police report if needed. I have sent you a private msg.

Thanks!

George

So. No matter what has been said n done here in Singapore......all Investors are screwed.

It is so sad, that Singapore do not protect it's citizens against cleverly planned contracts that puts us in a disadvantaged position.

Guess I can kiss my $$$ goodbye.

AAA 100% - Was told in 2008 that it'll be matter of months when all investors will be paid...BS!

Was told that Credit crisis has hit Philippine also....need to wait Aug or Sept 2009........BS!

2010.............more BS!

Sigh.

 

[Commander Keen]

Profitable Group - lying cheating scum ?

If you offer 6 different investment products ( and multiple derivatives of those investments like AAA etc) then what are you if 100% of those investments have no prospect of success and all are destined to fail ? Are Profitable Group a responsible and ethical builder of wealth ? Or are Profitable Group lying cheating scum ? This statement is from the Profitable Group web site.

As a successful organisation there are people and organisations that envy our success. When those people and organisations can say the same as we can - not one client has ever lost money - we may listen. Until then we will continue to provide Strategic Global Products and be a responsible and ethical builder of wealth

Let us take a look at how Profitable Group offer to responsibly and ethically build wealth.

• Concorde Village land banking - no prospects
• Nafferton land banking - no prospects
• Cherry Tree Grove land banking - no prospects
• Spring Grove land banking - no prospects
• Philippines land banking - no prospects
• Boron Lubricants - no deals !! any payments were based on a "ponzi" model
• AAA - an investment product built on no prospect land deals - any payments were based on a "ponzi" model

Based on the above I think it is reasonable to ask - Are Profitable Group Lying Cheating Scum ? And before the lawyers for Profitable group reach for their template litigation letters perhaps the lawyers may consider their own role in propping up this disgusting affair and enabling millions of dollars to be lost by ordinary decent people.

 

[Darth Saulus]

PG on Chinese Lianhe Zaobao

PG on Lianhe Zao Bao yesterday. If you can read Chinese, read this link:
http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp100821_012.shtml

 

[Liquigas]

Even the staffs do not know when they can go back to work.

The situation seems quite bad. We can really kiss our $$$ goodbye.
Looking at the Co's Mission Statement and Core Values is a Big Joke:

The Profitable Group exists to
increase the wealth of its clients,
its employees and its owners, through the provision of strategically selected investment opportunities.

Finest People,
Finest Opportunities,
Finest Returns

Who's wealth did they increase? Where are the FINE people and the RETURNS?

To be internationally recognised
as a premier provider of Strategic Global Products and a responsible and ethical builder of wealth.

Source;
Prosper;
Contribute

They soon to be Internationally recognised. But not as a RESPONSIBLE and ETHICAL wealth builder. Source- for victims. Prosper- using victims $$$.
Contribute- more problems to ordinary folks' life.

R - Responsibility (Were they ever resposible??)
A - Accountability (By avoiding investors, and denying wrong doings)
C - Credibility (Do they know what this word means?)
E - Excellence (We all know what this means. Doesn't apply here!)

 

[Cleetus]

Are PG still open in HK and other places?

Hi does anyone know what's happening in Hong KOng and other places- are PG still open there?

Even the staffs do not know when they can go back
is happening in Hong KOng and other places- are they still open there?
The situation seems quite bad. We can really kiss our $$$ goodbye.
Looking at the Co's Mission Statement and Core Values is a Big Joke:

The Profitable Group exists to
increase the wealth of its clients,
its employees and its owners, through the provision of strategically selected investment opportunities.

Finest People,
Finest Opportunities,
Finest Returns

Who's wealth did they increase? Where are the FINE people and the RETURNS?

To be internationally recognised
as a premier provider of Strategic Global Products and a responsible and ethical builder of wealth.

Source;
Prosper;
Contribute

They soon to be Internationally recognised. But not as a RESPONSIBLE and ETHICAL wealth builder. Source- for victims. Prosper- using victims $$$.
Contribute- more problems to ordinary folks' life.

R - Responsibility (Were they ever resposible??)
A - Accountability (By avoiding investors, and denying wrong doings)
C - Credibility (Do they know what this word means?)
E - Excellence (We all know what this means. Doesn't apply here!)

 

[GeorgeBoron]

Small Claim Tribunal

Anyone manage successfully to win the case agains PG for boron product in SCT? Was told this buy back scheme is an investment kind of product by the judge for my case and he rejected my case. I think all the rest had the same treatment. The court is now familiar with boron product and quickly they give the same rulling...

 

[Liquigas]

Profitable Group markets the Boron Products to many people in South Asia.
They designed an Option agreement worded in such a way, it will be difficult to nail them.

Based on the agreement signed, investors must go through Court of Arbitration. That is an expensive process. How are we to sue them in Dubai??

The only way we have a chance to get the Boron monies back, is that investigation proves that fraud was involved.

1. When we buy the Boron, and signed the Contract, did anyone realised that there were no Director's signature? Only counter-signed by another Compliance Officer.

2. When I asked for proof of any Boron end users, the representatives always go round in circles, but offer no concrete evidence that there's a real buyer for Boron.

3. When asked about any proof of shipment, it's all private and confidential.

4. When asked why there's a delay in payment last year, they said that due to the financial crisis in Dubai, the payment got delayed. How the hell is that related to the delay, when the producer and buyer are not in Dubai?? They offer no evidence except lots of smokescreen.

Was asked to switch to Concorde Village or other AAA products. Otherwise I may risk losing my investments or getting long delay in payment.

I decided to stay put with Boron. If Profitable Group promised payments in 6 months, and does not deliver, what makes you think they will honour anything at all?

I seriously feel that the whole Boron thing is a Ponzi.
I hope the Directors go to jail for as long as possible.

 

[kelvintyy]

Profitable Group markets the Boron Products to many people in South Asia.
They designed an Option agreement worded in such a way, it will be difficult to nail them.

Based on the agreement signed, investors must go through Court of Arbitration. That is an expensive process. How are we to sue them in Dubai??

The only way we have a chance to get the Boron monies back, is that investigation proves that fraud was involved.

1. When we buy the Boron, and signed the Contract, did anyone realised that there were no Director's signature? Only counter-signed by another Compliance Officer.

2. When I asked for proof of any Boron end users, the representatives always go round in circles, but offer no concrete evidence that there's a real buyer for Boron.

3. When asked about any proof of shipment, it's all private and confidential.

4. When asked why there's a delay in payment last year, they said that due to the financial crisis in Dubai, the payment got delayed. How the hell is that related to the delay, when the producer and buyer are not in Dubai?? They offer no evidence except lots of smokescreen.

Was asked to switch to Concorde Village or other AAA products. Otherwise I may risk losing my investments or getting long delay in payment.

I decided to stay put with Boron. If Profitable Group promised payments in 6 months, and does not deliver, what makes you think they will honour anything at all?

I seriously feel that the whole Boron thing is a Ponzi.
I hope the Directors go to jail for as long as possible.

Yes, I also have the same feeling as yours regards to Boron. There are many grey areas and fishiness about Boron as an investment. Just a month before CAD raided Profitable Group's HQ, my CSO suddenly became so enthusiastic to want me to quickly convert Boron to Concorde Village that he called me more than 2 times a month. I also stay put with my Boron.

Very happy to see that justice finally prevails after about a year of struggle. Thanks to the many brave investors, Mr Tan KL, press, regulators and authorities.

 

[KYYummy]

Profitable Group markets the Boron Products to many people in South Asia.
They designed an Option agreement worded in such a way, it will be difficult to nail them.

Based on the agreement signed, investors must go through Court of Arbitration. That is an expensive process. How are we to sue them in Dubai??

The only way we have a chance to get the Boron monies back, is that investigation proves that fraud was involved.

1. When we buy the Boron, and signed the Contract, did anyone realised that there were no Director's signature? Only counter-signed by another Compliance Officer.

2. When I asked for proof of any Boron end users, the representatives always go round in circles, but offer no concrete evidence that there's a real buyer for Boron.

3. When asked about any proof of shipment, it's all private and confidential.

4. When asked why there's a delay in payment last year, they said that due to the financial crisis in Dubai, the payment got delayed. How the hell is that related to the delay, when the producer and buyer are not in Dubai?? They offer no evidence except lots of smokescreen.

Was asked to switch to Concorde Village or other AAA products. Otherwise I may risk losing my investments or getting long delay in payment.

I decided to stay put with Boron. If Profitable Group promised payments in 6 months, and does not deliver, what makes you think they will honour anything at all?

I seriously feel that the whole Boron thing is a Ponzi.
I hope the Directors go to jail for as long as possible.

Yes, I agree that the whole Boron, AAA products etc.... are Ponzi.

The only way now is to wait for the outcome of CAD's investigation.

Justice must be done.

 

[Commander Keen]

Article in Business TImes

Ok edited with links to the BT and ST articles. The BT article is rubbish by the way as apparently they dont have any fact checkers.
You cannot build on Green Belt in the UK. There are occasional exceptions. Profitable Group do not qualify for any of those exceptions for any of their plots of land.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_571363.html


http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,401222,00.html?

 

[Drav03]

BT Article

http://singaporeuncletrader.wordpre...t-of-scammed-singaporean-investors-stupidity/

 

[dustychelsea]

CAD steps into Profitable case

CAD steps into Profitable case

source:
http://www.todayonline.com/Hotnews/EDC100820-0000072/CAD-steps-into-Profitable-case

SINGAPORE - In May, the Profitable Group was placed on the Monetary Authority of Singapore's (MAS) Investor Alert List. Now, Today understands that white-collar crime busters have stepped in and begun a probe into its dealings.

The Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) investigations are said to have followed numerous complaints against the six-year-old land-banking company, which promises exceptionally high returns of between 12.5 per cent and 900 per cent on investments ranging from real estate in England, to fuel products and art.

Land-banking is the practice of speculating on land in the hope that it could be developed for residential housing or commercial purposes.

Not all CAD probes unveil wrongdoing. A police spokesman said in an email reply: "It is inappropriate to comment on police investigations, if any."

This newspaper's efforts to reach the company's management by phone and by an email address provided on the company's website were unsuccessful.

When MediaCorp visited yesterday afternoon, the company's Stanley Street office was closed.

There were no signs that the office workers had packed up the place. Neighbouring tenants could not recall when the office last opened for business.

A couple of months ago, more than 50 disgruntled investors turned up at the Speakers' Corner to vent their anger at the group following failed efforts to get their money back upon maturity of their investments.

Another dozen or so confronted operations director John Nordmann at the group's office, which boasts a staff strength of about 100.

These investors were said to have invested between $3,000 and $200,000 in various products. Conrad Raj and Teo Xuanwei

 

[PG_investor]

Position on Green Belt and Lower Feltham Lakes - Concord Village

Hounslow Local Development Framework
Hounslow Borough Council
22 April 2009

Response on this link:


http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/position_on_green_belt_and_lower#incoming-24694

 

[probono]

Are Profitable Group lying cheating scum ?

If you offer 6 different investment products ( and multiple derivatives of those investments like AAA etc) then what are you if 100% of those investments have no prospect of success and all are destined to fail ? Are Profitable Group a responsible and ethical builder of wealth ? Or are Profitable Group lying cheating scum ?

Good question. Looking at the evidence from last weeks Business Times I would go with lying cheating scum .

A case in point is a complaint brought up by an investor at Speakers’ Corner – who told Channel NewsAsia he had invested $180,000 in eight parcels of land slated for housing development in the UK, only to find out the land had been designated ‘green belt . . . (which) is basically conservation land where the prospect of development is zero or maybe 5 per cent’. According to Mr Goldring, that belief is completely untrue.

Tim either you are lying or you should really fire your planning company DLP because that customer statement is pretty much completely true. The only untruth is he overstates the chances of planning. There is almost no chance (less than 0.01% statistically) of this land being developed.

‘Green belt land is being built on every year in the UK

Yes Tim a tiny portion of the Green Belt does get built on every year. These are exceptional cases. They may build a school or a road or airport sometimes even a local store. It doesnt matter about other green belt. There are no plans or intentions to build housing on any of the Profitable Group Green Belt and unless your planning group are morons they know that. Morons or liars which do you prefer ?

– you just have to adhere to certain guidelines for development (such as, maintaining a certain degree of open space),’ he said.


If you maintain open space you can build on Green Belt ? Not true. Green Belt is protected land.

13% of the England is protected Green Belt.
70% of England is agricultural land.
There are 150,000 Acres of previously developed land available to build on today in England without touching the green belt with enough space for 1.2 million houses.
Something like 80% of england is not green belt and not built on. Most of that is agricultural land.
Its easier to convert agricultural land for building than green belt.

Even if Profitable Group land could be developed if i am a reputable UK developer and I have the choice of buying a field from a local farmer or transferring overpriced land from 5,000 small investors through a company that was shut down in the UK where do you think I will go?

‘If you check the UK land use statistics, you’ll see there is development on green belt every year. Even Prince Charles has plans to build on green belt.

The UK Royal Family family owns a lot of UK land including some Green Belt. Using statistics again if there is any Green Belt development some of it is likely to involve the Royal Family.

‘And in this particular example, the eight parcels of land have been designated as brownfield land (which is previously used land that can be redeveloped) by the local council.’

Ummm no thats not true . Again fire your planning company. Greenbelt land is greenbelt land. The land may have been excavated for sand and gravel previously but nows its Green Belt again and some of it is a designated wildlife area.

Mr Goldring said that while he believes CAD is duty bound to investigate complaints, he has found the small number of complaints he has encountered have arisen from competitors or from people who do not understand the intricacies of UK land laws. ‘And frivolous complaints could waste a lot of time for everyone,’

Tim I suggest you look at this page.
http://profitable-group-victims.blogspot.com/

There are people there who have invested thousands and thousands of dollars. They dont work for your competitors and they are not being frivolous. They are scared. They invested money that they spent years earning in good faith. They beleived you when you said you would take care of the details and the planning. What they didnt understand when they invested with your company was that even though you stated in your advertising and sales methods that huge and rapid returns were almost certain, in fact there was almost no chance of getting their money back. They didnt understand that none of these investments would ever come good. They didnt understand that the only money you would pay out to end investors would be to encourage those investors to keep investing further.
Profitable Plots’ group operations director John Nordmann believes some of the unhappiness might stem from the state of the economy as a whole.

No ! The deep unhappiness comes from end investors knowing they are not going to get any of their money back and feeling that they have been cheated.

‘In the past couple of years, we have paid out in excess of $50 million to our investors,’ he said.

Which investors ? Customers ? Profitable Group directors ? Lets see a blog of happy Profitable Group investors John.

‘And we have done 14,000 transactions since 2004. We have never lost any money for any of our clients (a statement reiterated in bold on the company’s website), even during these tough times.
Of those 14000 transactions how many customers have got just even 50% of their money back that did not threaten to sue you ? Your customers believe they have lost their money. They cant sell anything that you sold to them. They lost the money the day they purchased from Profitable Group. You may have made a payment or two of 12.5% to some investors but that was just like giving them a discount or a free gift. Now they want their money.

A handful of people are unhappy, but given the economic situation, I guess they’d be unhappy.

An awful lot of people are unhappy because you have not paid them. A lot more are unhappy because they have realised that payouts on their land investments that they expected to happen in a 1-5 year timeframe as you advertised will never happen. The economic situation is that if you are an end investor in Profitable Group you will most likely never get your money back.

Was it in your small print ? As a customer of Profitable Group you are almost certain to lose all of your money

‘But as a testament to our business, I can tell you that the bulk of our customers keep coming back – 70 to 75 per cent of our business is repeat business.’

Not anymore thay dont. The days of put all your money in Profitable Group are over. Your office doesnt seem to be open much these days Tim. And we not seeing your on the TV anymore. I asume that being on the MAS investor alert list and being investigated by the CAD cant help business much.

Give the people the money back Tim and John. Do the right thing

 

[anatolian]

Mr Goldring said that while he believes CAD is duty bound to investigate complaints, he has found the small number of complaints he has encountered have arisen from competitors or from people who do not understand the intricacies of UK land laws. ‘And frivolous complaints could waste a lot of time for everyone,’

Well yeah, and the large number of complaints PG encountered could be from Boron investors with no one getting their money back, a clear breach of contractual agreement without a tiny bit of explanation from PG. If you are dealing with a decent company you would expect a representative to at least meet you in person and try to arrange payment by installment. However, PG has no courtesy of returning call or accept a meeting arrangement. I think the word 'cheating scum' is not overrated.

Tell me what complaints were frivolous? Who wasted everyone's time? PG did wasted CAD and investors time and resources. Let's not finger-pointing to PG competitors, there couldn't be any company with bad working ethics like PG, so obviously PG got no competitors.

 

[Commander Keen]

Switch Boron to Concorde Village ? Yes or No

Well yeah, and the large number of complaints PG encountered could be from Boron investors with no one getting their money back,

Reading the Victims of Profitable Group- scam and complaints site I notice that quite a few people are being encouraged to switch from Boron to Concorde Village.

Both investments are worthless. In may seem that Concorde Village is a better option because it has real land underneath it but the underlying land is useless and when Profitable group fail it will probably cost you more in legal and transfer fees to sell it than dump it.

While there are no contracts underneath the investment payout products like Boron and AAA do seem to have more of a legal obligation to payout. AAA and Boron investors may have more of a claim to a payout as was proved by Vocal Local getting paid back. The fact that Profitable Group are encouraging Boron investors to switch to CVG would suggest that they dont want to pay out any money or they are scared of the related legal actions on Boron.

I would be interested to see what other think on this. Please note i'm not a financial advisor or expert.
I just dont want people who are already burned to get even more burned by switching.