Profitable Group - is it credible?

[WHdPHr]

Inspiro Explorer

Hi, I've received a call from someone called Ivan from IE saying his Co is buying over land titles bought from PP.

Anyone met up with them? Are they genuine or another scam?

Thanks....

 

[probono]

9% of UK developed not 18% !

Happy New Year.

Profitable Plots are using this UK news program to promote UK Land Banking

MP Nick Boles to BRIBE HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS - YouTube

Key facts from the program

• 9% of UK is developed land
• Agricultural land without planning permission is worth 10K pounds per acre. (Profitable plots investors paid 600K per acre for their plots)
• Developers should be allowed to buy some cheap land and build on it. (Land banking land is not cheap because the investors paid 600K per acre and want a return)
• There is more derelict land in Britain than ever before

So remember all those claims about the UK running out of building land, the Olympics, Heathrow Airport, the high price of land without planning permission.

Can you say bullsh*t on hardware zone ?

 

[probono]

UK Secretary of State for Planning replies on Profitable Plots question

Thank you for your letter of 3 February to Nick Boles MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Planning, about the effect which recent planning announcements have inadvertently had on efforts overseas to combat rural plot-sale scams. I have been asked to reply.

The practice of selling small plots of agricultural land over the internet as an ‘investment’ or future house site has long been a cause for concern. The misleading impression that planning consent for a house in open countryside is likely at some point in future is generally conveyed only by implication. The advertiser may, for instance, present a plausible ‘artist’s impression’ of a field full of houses, along an imaginary access road. The buyer’s lack of awareness of how planning works may lead to an incautious purchase, often without means of redress. Targeted purchasers may live overseas or have little English, and it may be years before a plot owner starts to worry that his or her ‘investment’ was nothing of the kind. The unusable land may be long neglected and suffer fly-tipping which the owner is liable for cleaning up.

However, it is wrong to blame Ministers for making statements about the future of planning and the need for housing which, ineptly reported, may have seemed to lend support to such plot-sales. Mr Boles has repeatedly made clear that the planning system will remain Plan-led. If at all possible, it is essential to try to make prospective land purchasers aware that planning proposals must be determined in accordance with the relevant Local Plan unless other material considerations indicate otherwise. Where it is proposed to build a house on land currently in agricultural use, planning permission for change of use of land will also be necessary. It will generally be clear from the Local Plan if there is any reasonable prospect of developing such land in the foreseeable future.

The Government has set out its policies for planning in the National Planning Policy Framework. The Framework clearly requires local planning authorities to recognise the character and beauty of the countryside, to have regard to all the benefits of retaining the best agricultural land, and to encourage re-use of brownfield land if not of great environmental value. The Framework also requires planners to protect Green Belt, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and other land with protective designations. Green Belts, for instance, are created by local planning authorities in order permanently to prevent urban sprawl and encroachment onto the countryside, and to retain the openness of countryside round a settlement. The Framework’s presumption in favour of sustainable development is not a policy that overrides environmental protections or Green Belt policy. Moreover, planning authorities will generally refuse permission for a new isolated dwelling in the country unless it meets the criteria in paragraph 55 of the Framework.

Although it has no official standing, we sometimes direct enquirers to the site, PropertySCAM - Fighting the blight of UK land scams since 2004 , which gives a useful indication of problems others have experienced, and investigations undertaken.

Ministers have always emphasised that we have never proposed the concreting over of the countryside, that we do not want to see more greenfield land developed than is absolutely necessary, and that it is not central government which says where houses should be built. Decisions about where to encourage development, how much, and what type, are for each local authority to take in conjunction with the local community. The Framework is at

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6077/2116950.pdf

Yours sincerely,


ALAN C SCOTT

 

[Commander Keen]

Profitable Plots Court Case has started

Trial of alleged conspirators of Boron Scheme starts - Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE: The trial of three people who designed a complex investment scheme, known as the Boron Scheme to raise cash flow for their failing business, began on Monday.

Timothy Nicholas Goldring, as well as married couple Geraldine Anthony Thomas and John Andrew Nordmann came up with the scheme.....(more on website)

Also see

Straits Times : Profitable Plots' directors driven by greed: Prosecution


Business Times: Three directors hatched investment scam: DPP

 

[probono]

SCI Canada Concorde Village / Colchester Land Plots - decision reached

OSC | OSC Proceedings - Before the Commission

You may be interested to read this decision if you are profitable plots land investor in the UK. It explains the relationship between SCI and Profitable Plots. It explains the plots of land purchased in Canada are now with a separate company. It reviews whether the 12 month buy back scheme were investment products or not and the test they apply is:-

[46] The Supreme Court of Canada set out four elements that have to be met in order for an arrangement to be an "investment contract". The four elements are:

(a) an investment of money;
(b) with an intention or an expectation of profit;
(c) in a common enterprise in which the fortunes of the investor are interwoven with and dependent upon the efforts and success of those seeking the investment or of third parties; and
(d) whether the efforts made by those other than the investor are the undeniably significant ones, those essential managerial efforts which affect the failure or success of the enterprise.

[47] The Court conflated the third and fourth parts of the test and indicated that the test of common enterprise is met:

... when it is undertaken for the benefit of the supplier of capital (the investor) and of those who solicit the capital (the promoter). In this relationship, the investor's role is limited to the advancement of money, the managerial control over the success of the enterprise being that of the promoter; therein lies the community.

[48] The Court also indicated that one had to look at the economic realities of the transaction rather than the caveat emptor principle.

As i read it they have determined that these were investment products and therefore in Canada at least they were in breach of securities regulations.

 

[DeDe]

I just found this thread, and yet to finish reading all.. my boyfriend is a PP investors for Uk land and wants to know how to get back the sums he had invested. If there is any way.
Don know where else to go.

Would appreciate a reply. many thanks.

 

[arty79]

Facts: My name is Rachel Teo. I am senior public servant. I am PP client.
Who are you? What do you do?

See above "senior public servant" Rachel who stop visiting this forum as fast as the PP money has disappeared.

Fact is PP remaining investors won't get their money back this lifetime anymore so just get on with life.

And you will also see in this HWZ forum and others of several new scams in forms of gold buy back or US properties sale.

Please do you due diligence otherwise you either get conned by senior public servant as above or get cheated the same way as "Rachel" who doesn't even exist in real life in first place.

 

[probono]

SCI Canada update (Fines) whats happening in Singapore ?

In Canada there has been action related to Profitable Plots land resold by SCI which you can see here:- http://www.osc.gov.on.ca/documents/en/Proceedings-RAD/rad_20131127_energy-syndications.pdf

This is a long document but details the complex issues in these cases with everyone blaming everyone else and is worth a read. As I read it SCI and its employees have been found guilty of breaching Canadian securities law by offering investments (and not products).

From section [17]
The misconduct of the Respondents involved the sale of Land Agreements and Solar Panel Agreements. The Land Agreements involved hundreds of small 8 metre x 8 metre contiguous plots of land in the United Kingdom, which were obtained by SCI from a Singaporean company, Profitable Plots Proprietary (“PPP”). SCI sought potential investors by running advertisements in The Toronto Star and in The Globe and Mail by offering high annual interest.

From section [19]
In the Material Time, SCI received $2,702,820 from 69 investors who bought 220 individual land plots. It bought back plots for a sum of $290,410.72 and made periodic monthly payments of $177,616.80. The difference of $2,234,792.50 is unaccounted for. The bank account of SCI at the end of the Material Time in April 2011 had a credit balance of $29,973.29.

From section [38] In his testimony, Xxxxx stated that he came across an ad for Profitable Plots Canada in 2006, answered the ad and was hired by Xxxxxx as the first business development executive in North America. Profitable Plots Canada subsequently became SCI.

From Section [84] For the reasons above, and I find that the orders for sanctions and costs set out below are appropriate and are in the public interest. They will serve as a specific and general deterrent by sending a message to both the Respondents and like-minded individuals that such conduct will result in meaningful sanctions by the Commission.

The following sections then detail the fines, bans from directorship and restrictions on securities and investments trading for various SCI staff.
In summary SCI are required to pay $200K in fines, pay back $2.5M and pay $50K in costs. Various ex staff involved have smaller fines.

-----------------------------

A Google search of Profitable Group and Profitable plots shows no real update in Singapore since April 2013 on the court case. Anyone have any news? I notice the Profitable Group site is down again - it was up for a while with some comments about justice and potential for the UK sites but today at least its down.

 

[Drav03]

Singapore Law Watch - Singapore investors still waiting to be paid by EcoHouse

Ex PP manager in action again. You know who he is if you read the article. He ought to be stopped.

 

[Commander Keen]

Singapore Law Watch - Singapore investors still waiting to be paid by EcoHouse

Ex PP manager in action again. You know who he is if you read the article. He ought to be stopped.

Looked at the Eco House website. Cheap and no real information. Lots of similarities to websites for Asian Plantation Investments and UK Land Banking investments. To get out of their current problems Eco House are apparently trying to get people to sign new ‘Deeds of Modification’ delaying payments that were due. All sounds very familiar.

EcoHouse plays catch-up, stops selling in Singapore - Property Auctions News, Property Investment | PropertyGuru

 

[oldzhang]

I just found this thread, I am a PP investors for Uk land .
Recently, someone call me, say ：They are jointly victims to take legal action against PP. just free sign contract. This is true? their office is in suntec town3 #42-01, but not like a normal company.

Please share any news with me, thanks, my HP:97731247(I speaking mandarin)

 

[sunzoner]

I just found this thread, I am a PP investors for Uk land .
Recently, someone call me, say ：They are jointly victims to take legal action against PP. just free sign contract. This is true? their office is in suntec town3 #42-01, but not like a normal company.

Please share any news with me, thanks, my HP:97731247(I speaking mandarin)

Please see the below link.
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/72577670-post700.html

Not saying these guys are fake, but distressed investors rent office so they can sue the buggers?

 

[probono]

Profitable Plots Judgement 9th May 2014 ?

The SIAS website says that


"The judgement in the case against the directors of Profitable Plots will be delivered on 9th May 2014 at 9:30 AM in state court number 6"

I cant find any other reference to this case on the web.
Did it happen and what was the outcome ? Its over a year since the last real news report on the CAD case.

I just found this thread, I am a PP investors for Uk land .
Recently, someone call me, say ：They are jointly victims to take legal action against PP. just free sign contract. This is true? their office is in suntec town3 #42-01, but not like a normal company.

I'd be very careful about handing any money over or signing any contract. Read everything carefully. What are you giving up, What do you pay. What do you get. There have been several cases recently where replacing an existing 1 year contract with a new 3 year contract removed all promises, claims and obligations against the original company. Not only did they lose their 1 year payout but gave up all rights to any future claims and were charged a fee.

 

[probono]

Profitable Plots directors jailed for cheating investors

Justice is served.

Profitable Plots directors jailed for cheating investors - Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE: Two directors and shareholders of Profitable Plots were on Monday (June 9) convicted of conspiracy to cheat investors of about S$979,000.

Timothy Nicholas Goldring was handed a seven-year jail term, while another director, John Andrew Nordmann was given eight years' jail. Nordmann's wife, Geraldine Anthony Thomas, was acquitted.

District Judge Chay Yuen Fatt found that Goldring and Nordmann had dishonestly represented the investment scheme, known as Boron CLS Bond, to investors. The Britons had told investors their funds would be used for the purchase of Boron products, but the bulk of the money went to Profitable Plots’ operations and other expenses. They also told investors the Boron products had been pre-sold to major corporations, but this was not true.

If they spent the Boron money on running the Profitable Plots business I wonder what happened to the Profitable Plots money? These schemes are basically all profit apart from the money they spent on ESPN and lawyers and creating documents to support the scheme.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Justice is served.

Profitable Plots directors jailed for cheating investors - Channel NewsAsia



If they spent the Boron money on running the Profitable Plots business I wonder what happened to the Profitable Plots money? These schemes are basically all profit apart from the money they spent on ESPN and lawyers and creating documents to support the scheme.

Two British bankers jailed over $3m investment scam

 

[Drav03]

More charges are being filed against them. The pre-trial is next month for this additional charges. Hope they get stiffer sentencing and die in prison for the scams they committed on innocent souls. Court rejected the prosecution claim that it was a Ponzi scheme. So many pple lost their hard earned life savings. Hope the appeal judge will be more harsh with the sentencing.

 

[steven168z]

those invested how?

 

[JUSTHARRY]

More charges are being filed against them. The pre-trial is next month for this additional charges. Hope they get stiffer sentencing and die in prison for the scams they committed on innocent souls. Court rejected the prosecution claim that it was a Ponzi scheme. So many pple lost their hard earned life savings. Hope the appeal judge will be more harsh with the sentencing.

The two directors not yet sent to jail!!! They are out on bail pending appeal. As you say, let's hope the appeal court passes on a stiffer sentence to both of them. They deserve life in prison. It's a pity that only the two directors are prosecuted. The rest of them including the so-called sales promoters are also guilty ... they knew what was going on and they merrily promoted the company's products for their own benefit. The commissions they must have received would justify their prosecution.

 

[Drav03]

The two directors not yet sent to jail!!! They are out on bail pending appeal. As you say, let's hope the appeal court passes on a stiffer sentence to both of them. They deserve life in prison. It's a pity that only the two directors are prosecuted. The rest of them including the so-called sales promoters are also guilty ... they knew what was going on and they merrily promoted the company's products for their own benefit. The commissions they must have received would justify their prosecution.

Yes all the promoters are cheats too..but it would take a long process in court to charge them. So I guess that will never happen. God shall punish all who cheated in my opinion. In Singapore's history, upon appeal the sentencing are usually increased. Hope the unlikely wont happen in this case.

 

[Drav03]

those invested how?

All monies have been SPENT by the directors. They had a couple of hundered dollars in their account when they were raided by CAD. Monies must have been sent overseas..will wait for them when they finish their sentencing. Typical white collar criminals..history has many such cases..they will walk out as rich when they are released.