Proposal Ring - Part 3

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bb_100

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JP does way more filtering than just the cut, even in terms of color they only take higher end spectrum colors. Diamonds can have BGM (brown, green, milky) effect too which the certificate won't show. That's just one example, I remember vaguely. There are more things than just cut they QC on

They only select non fluorescent diamonds for their Super Ideal cuts. Even if the stone is super ideal but with fluorescence, they will still reject it and place it under normal ideal cut.
 

mero_cwj

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JP does way more filtering than just the cut, even in terms of color they only take higher end spectrum colors. Diamonds can have BGM (brown, green, milky) effect too which the certificate won't show. That's just one example, I remember vaguely. There are more things than just cut they QC on

Yep that's right. I believe in terms of clarity they will also filter some of the VS2 diamonds in the lower end of the spectrum.
 

charliedublin

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Advice

Hi guys,

New to this forum, but have been keeping an eye on it for some time.

Considering purchasing a stone:

GIA: 6232718786
1.37Ct D VVS2
HCA 1.4

Sorry, new to HWZ so I cant post photos/links yet.

Any recommendations/advice?
 

mero_cwj

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Hi guys,

New to this forum, but have been keeping an eye on it for some time.

Considering purchasing a stone:

GIA: 6232718786
1.37Ct D VVS2
HCA 1.4

Sorry, new to HWZ so I cant post photos/links yet.

Any recommendations/advice?

Saw this in the email notifications for the thread, is this the photo you tried to post?

Scope.jpg


The HCA score is ok but HCA only takes into account a limited number of facets. That macro photo of the diamond, if it's for the one you're talking about, shows quite a lot of flaws in the light performance IMO. Got various spots where there is light leakage. Don't suppose you have an ASET or idealscope image?
 

charliedublin

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Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, that's the photo I saw and unfortunately I don't have the ASET scope photos.

I found the stone looking on Rapnet with a dealer, and managed to negotiate for cost + 4%. It comes in at 22K including the setting.

I'm looking for a reasonable stone with good value for money. Do you think this meets the criteria?

Thanks again for your reply.
 

mero_cwj

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Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, that's the photo I saw and unfortunately I don't have the ASET scope photos.

I found the stone looking on Rapnet with a dealer, and managed to negotiate for cost + 4%. It comes in at 22K including the setting.

I'm looking for a reasonable stone with good value for money. Do you think this meets the criteria?

Thanks again for your reply.

I don't think this stone is worth rap +4%...

I wouldn't buy any stone in excess of 0.5 carats without some form of scope analysis, or at the very least, gemcalc, sarin report or something similar. If it's a >20k stone larger than a carat, I'm definitely not parting with my money on that photo alone with the GIA cert.

I believe you can get a similar carat weight diamond at JP for that amount of money. Based on a simplistic price per carat calculation using smaller stones in the same rap weight band, I think a G VS2 of that size should be around 18k, a D VVS2 uplift maybe in the region of 24-25k. Since you are looking at value for money, consider a F/G VS2 stone, I think that should be comfortably below 20k excluding setting, 20.5-21k with setting.

EDIT: Just did a quite check on my usual Whiteflash reference prices - they have a number of A Cut Above range diamonds within your price range with carat sizes between 1.30 to 1.36. If I were you, I would be a lot more inclined to consider those if you want to buy online.

EDIT 2: Since you're after a larger stone, I checked out the Crafted by Infinity diamonds at High Performance Diamonds as well (which IMO is the best cut quality you can get for an online retailer, with a price premium to match), and they have a 1.33 G VS1 in your price range as well.
 
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charliedublin

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Thanks for your help.

I'm having the stone flown in so I can see it in person.

The price I was mentioning was the wholesale price the dealer was paying for the stone +4%.

I can't recall exactly how much of a discount there was on the rap price, but there definitely was a discount.

I'll take a look at whiteflash.
Thanks
 

phoenixrule

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They only select non fluorescent diamonds for their Super Ideal cuts. Even if the stone is super ideal but with fluorescence, they will still reject it and place it under normal ideal cut.

Non-fluorescent diamonds can be milky too! Its not caused by fluorescence but another reason. Forgot what it was but it was something to do with where the diamond was mined.
 

phoenixrule

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Really?? Can provide more info on this?

There's some info of it online but its in bits and pieces everywhere.
This one gives a good summary of it but applies more to the brown/green color.

GIA doesn't grade a diamond's tint, just the hue. A D color diamond can still have a brown tint to it and it won't be reflected on the GIA certifificate. Likewise for milky (though not associated with tint).


Diamonds, even when graded by the top diamond grading laboratories in the world, are by many players in the alternative investment market still not thought of as fungible.

Why is this so? In my stock, I may have two round cut diamonds, of the same weight, of the same cut grade, and the very same clarity, and of identical color grades. Both stones are accompanied by a diamond grading report from the Gemological Institute of America’s lab.

However, when these stones are put on the market, there can be a difference of more than 10 percent in the prices that these stones will fetch!

How come? It is because neither GIA, nor any other internationally recognized diamond grading lab that operates in the B2B market, relates the issue of tint on their grading reports.

It must be noted that this issue is NOT something new that has come only to light now or that it is new to the trade. In fact, within the trade itself, tint, sometimes also related to as ‘hue,’ is in effect a non-issue as the rule of ‘caveat emptor’ reigns: we know about it. You know about it (if you do not you’re apparently not a diamond professional) and the professional downstream market also is aware of this.

However, when outsiders, i.e. investors, investment brokers, and consumers are sold stones under the premise that all diamonds that were assigned a ‘D’ color grade are invariably the same, we are in fact operating in a misleading mode—at best—and in a fraudulent mode, at worst!

Let’s expand on this a little more. When a consumer buys a piece of jewelry, he or she is not (yet) concerned about the resale value as it is an emotional purchase and reselling is not on his or her mind. For the investor, however, the resale value of the stone is of paramount importance—for no serious investor will enter into an investment without a clear and efficient way to realize his investment. However, under the current circumstances, at the point of sale the issue of tint/hue will impact his sale greatly.

Waldman is asking grading labs to start adding tint to their reports. GIA has told him it is “continuing to look” at this.

He adds:

I’d hope that this article will help jumpstart a discussion, and that ultimately the representative organizations of the trade—such as the IDC (on behalf of WFDB and IDMA) and CIBJO, will bring this to the discussion table. Once that happens, the labs and the gemological business community at large will have to face the music.


http://www.jckonline.com/blogs/cutt...8/should-diamond-grading-reports-include-tint


Diamond buying is just one complicated business :s22:
 

tinkerella

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If you were to choose between these two settings for my 0.41 vs1 f super ideal cut diamond which would you choose. I just need to top up 150$ to upgrade to setting to the one with side diamond. Is it worth it? Im only talking about the setting not the rock heheheh! :) please advise. Thanks!!!!!

@turningpoint, providing you with a female perspective - I will prefer without side diamonds unless the side diamonds can go at least half way round.Otherwise it looks incomplete to me.
Personally i chose the one below that mero posted a pic of. In fact - those are my rendering photos that was sent to me! haha but from this rendering i actually modified the prongs to make it smaller and also to remove the knob detail below the prong where it touches the ring.

Hope this helps!

How about an actual one from JP's standard range of settings? This is by far my favourite of all the ones I looked at, I picked this but modified to a 6 prong instead. They should also be able to do this with side diamonds.

dr0148.jpg
 

charliedublin

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I don't think this stone is worth rap +4%...

I wouldn't buy any stone in excess of 0.5 carats without some form of scope analysis, or at the very least, gemcalc, sarin report or something similar. If it's a >20k stone larger than a carat, I'm definitely not parting with my money on that photo alone with the GIA cert.

I believe you can get a similar carat weight diamond at JP for that amount of money. Based on a simplistic price per carat calculation using smaller stones in the same rap weight band, I think a G VS2 of that size should be around 18k, a D VVS2 uplift maybe in the region of 24-25k. Since you are looking at value for money, consider a F/G VS2 stone, I think that should be comfortably below 20k excluding setting, 20.5-21k with setting.

EDIT: Just did a quite check on my usual Whiteflash reference prices - they have a number of A Cut Above range diamonds within your price range with carat sizes between 1.30 to 1.36. If I were you, I would be a lot more inclined to consider those if you want to buy online.

EDIT 2: Since you're after a larger stone, I checked out the Crafted by Infinity diamonds at High Performance Diamonds as well (which IMO is the best cut quality you can get for an online retailer, with a price premium to match), and they have a 1.33 G VS1 in your price range as well.

Went into the dealer. Price is Rapt-27%.
 

spLeenfuL

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There's some info of it online but its in bits and pieces everywhere.
This one gives a good summary of it but applies more to the brown/green color.

GIA doesn't grade a diamond's tint, just the hue. A D color diamond can still have a brown tint to it and it won't be reflected on the GIA certifificate. Likewise for milky (though not associated with tint).


Diamonds, even when graded by the top diamond grading laboratories in the world, are by many players in the alternative investment market still not thought of as fungible.

Why is this so? In my stock, I may have two round cut diamonds, of the same weight, of the same cut grade, and the very same clarity, and of identical color grades. Both stones are accompanied by a diamond grading report from the Gemological Institute of America’s lab.

However, when these stones are put on the market, there can be a difference of more than 10 percent in the prices that these stones will fetch!

How come? It is because neither GIA, nor any other internationally recognized diamond grading lab that operates in the B2B market, relates the issue of tint on their grading reports.

It must be noted that this issue is NOT something new that has come only to light now or that it is new to the trade. In fact, within the trade itself, tint, sometimes also related to as ‘hue,’ is in effect a non-issue as the rule of ‘caveat emptor’ reigns: we know about it. You know about it (if you do not you’re apparently not a diamond professional) and the professional downstream market also is aware of this.

However, when outsiders, i.e. investors, investment brokers, and consumers are sold stones under the premise that all diamonds that were assigned a ‘D’ color grade are invariably the same, we are in fact operating in a misleading mode—at best—and in a fraudulent mode, at worst!

Let’s expand on this a little more. When a consumer buys a piece of jewelry, he or she is not (yet) concerned about the resale value as it is an emotional purchase and reselling is not on his or her mind. For the investor, however, the resale value of the stone is of paramount importance—for no serious investor will enter into an investment without a clear and efficient way to realize his investment. However, under the current circumstances, at the point of sale the issue of tint/hue will impact his sale greatly.

Waldman is asking grading labs to start adding tint to their reports. GIA has told him it is “continuing to look” at this.

He adds:

I’d hope that this article will help jumpstart a discussion, and that ultimately the representative organizations of the trade—such as the IDC (on behalf of WFDB and IDMA) and CIBJO, will bring this to the discussion table. Once that happens, the labs and the gemological business community at large will have to face the music.


http://www.jckonline.com/blogs/cutt...8/should-diamond-grading-reports-include-tint


Diamond buying is just one complicated business :s22:

Thanks for sharing! This is good info and useful. Sometimes its really up to the honesty of the jeweller to check this and reveal it to you. To most layman, I don't think they would even know to look out for this. And it can already affect the price by 10%. The jeweller can easily keep quiet about this and easily earn an extra 10% by hiding this.
 

xdestined

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Hey guys,

I'm looking for someone to take over my ring so that I can repurchase another proposal ring. Jannpaul give you 100% of what you paid for the diamond but not for the setting! =( And there's a 7% gst to pay to them as well.

So if there is anyone who is willing to purchase mine, please let me know! It's new! I have not even propose!! 😣😣

Here the specs :

Diamond type: Super Ideal Cut
0.94 E VS2

Below are the specifications:

60.1% Depth
58% Table
33.5° Crown Angle
40.8° Pavillion Angle
 

bb_100

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Hey guys,

I'm looking for someone to take over my ring so that I can repurchase another proposal ring. Jannpaul give you 100% of what you paid for the diamond but not for the setting! =( And there's a 7% gst to pay to them as well.

So if there is anyone who is willing to purchase mine, please let me know! It's new! I have not even propose!! 😣😣

Here the specs :

Diamond type: Super Ideal Cut
0.94 E VS2

Below are the specifications:

60.1% Depth
58% Table
33.5° Crown Angle
40.8° Pavillion Angle

Hmm... Interesting. Mind sharing why you wanna sell your ring?
 

xdestined

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Hmm... Interesting. Mind sharing why you wanna sell your ring?

I find it too small. I wanna upgrade it to a bigger carat or either a octagon or solasfera. The diamond is a good diamond. The people at Jannpaul also said it's big enough but I don't think it is. That's why I wanna change it.
 

meshpenstand

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I find it too small. I wanna upgrade it to a bigger carat or either a octagon or solasfera. The diamond is a good diamond. The people at Jannpaul also said it's big enough but I don't think it is. That's why I wanna change it.

Bro, you can "trade-in" with JP, can't you?

Yes, settings are non-refundable.. However, I believe if you do a refund, you can likely save the GST plus you might get a discounted price for settings.

Well, unless you are not going to get it from JP already, then of course. Selling it makes sense.

If you are selling it, I suggest you provide more details like
Price
Scopes
Photos of the settings or the ring if it is already set.

Gives the buyer more visual and see if it fits their budget.
And lastly, how much are you willing to make a lose out of it.

btw, I am not buying, just suggesting.
 

evokiller

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off topic a bit ah. what's a good card to sign up / use now for such a one-time big amt purchase?
 
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