Prudential Pruflexicash

[Lewis.T]

Tbh, no hard feeling but this is also misleading.. Why put 4.75% projected returns on BI then? They shd deduct whatever costs incurred by the coy before presenting the nett returns to the prospective client.

It's a requirement by LIA for all insurers to have a projected amount. It actually makes it more transparent as the client now knows how the growth will come about (from the company's fund investment).

 

[Shion]

Ok, I can see where your frustration is coming from. You were perhaps looking for a plan where you can grow your wealth but have been recommended a plan with a higher sum assured, thus eroding into the returns.

PruFlexicash Protection Plus has 4x the sum assured compared to a regular PruFlexicash, making it unsuitable when looking from a growth standpoint.

Well, at the point I am still one blur cock to be honest. So the agent introduced a savings plan for me, I didn't feel any amiss to it. Though thinking back, the agent did not do any financial planning for me.

The worst part was, the agent is a relative of my mother.

The even more jialat part was, my mother also bought similar policies from the relative many years ago.

End up I become like this 2 years later -->

Yeah, thats why I mentioned just now, this PruFlexiCash has become like "term insurance in disguise of a savings plan" and worse thing is, agents are selling this as "purely savings" which is incorrect if you compare it with other endowments from Pru...

 

[havetheveryfun]

Ok, I can see where your frustration is coming from. You were perhaps looking for a plan where you can grow your wealth but have been recommended a plan with a higher sum assured, thus eroding into the returns.

PruFlexicash Protection Plus has 4x the sum assured compared to a regular PruFlexicash, making it unsuitable when looking from a growth standpoint.

I think you still dont understand what he means. His frustration comes from this plan being marketed as a savings plan, (just ignore all the insurance portion and returns and crap for now).

Basically for this plan, lets say if you have paid $36000 premiums over the years, your guaranteed capital is only $24000. Yes, if you add in all the projected returns and all, it may be more than $36000, but the point still stands - the original capital put in is not guaranteed at all, so how can it even be considered as a savings plan? Dont come and say "Based on past 10 yrs performance etc, the projected returns is XXXX", not guaranteed means not guaranteed, period.

But of course, since you have earlier argued that the description of the plan and brochure etc does not state that this is a pure savings plan, and that the definition of a pure savings plan is subjective, then there is no point arguing over this as both of you are coming from different perspectives.

One thing is Im quite sure of is that if this policy wasnt sold as a savings plan, the amount of people whom have bought into it would probably decrease by at least 50%.. and sometimes its the lao jiaos who teach their juniors to market this as a savings plan.

 

[Lewis.T]

I think you still dont understand what he means. His frustration comes from this plan being marketed as a savings plan, (just ignore all the insurance portion and returns and crap for now).

Basically for this plan, lets say if you have paid $36000 premiums over the years, your guaranteed capital is only $24000. Yes, if you add in all the projected returns and all, it may be more than $36000, but the point still stands - the original capital put in is not guaranteed at all, so how can it even be considered as a savings plan? Dont come and say "Based on past 10 yrs performance etc, the projected returns is XXXX", not guaranteed means not guaranteed, period.

But of course, since you have earlier argued that the description of the plan and brochure etc does not state that this is a pure savings plan, and that the definition of a pure savings plan is subjective, then there is no point arguing over this as both of you are coming from different perspectives.

One thing is Im quite sure of is that if this policy wasnt sold as a savings plan, the amount of people whom have bought into it would probably decrease by at least 50%.. and sometimes its the lao jiaos who teach their juniors to market this as a savings plan.

Technically it's called an anticipated endowment, or a savings and insurance plan. Somewhere along the line people started calling it savings plan and that word has stuck since.

If you tell a layman you want to talk about an anticipated endowment plan they will be confused. They've come to recognize such plans as savings plans, but everybody's definition of it will differ.

Like you said, some may think it is capital guaranteed etc and this is where confusion may happen.

The important thing is to go through the B.I with the prospect so he/she fully understands what he/she is getting into!

 

[Shion]

Technically it's called an anticipated endowment, or a savings and insurance plan. Somewhere along the line people started calling it savings plan and that word has stuck since.

If you tell a layman you want to talk about an anticipated endowment plan they will be confused. They've come to recognize such plans as savings plans, but everybody's definition of it will differ.

Like you said, some may think it is capital guaranteed etc and this is where confusion may happen.

The important thing is to go through the B.I with the prospect so he/she fully understands what he/she is getting into!

Since agents and even the company also know people might not understand fully, then change the way the product is introduced and presented.

Instead of just saying "this one not savings la, is anticipated endowment", an agent can choose to spend a few more minutes to explain abit more to the clients that this is not "pure savings" and it comes with a "term insurance" portion. A portion of your premiums will be channeled for this "term insurance".

Is this something very hard to say, or does agents feel it is better to just simply flash this as a "pure savings" and close their deal asap ?

Of course, we must also take a look at benefit illustration but truly speaking, how many people really can understand ? If I ask my mother or father to read, they will not comprehend at all. In Cantonese, it is called "mong cha cha", and then coupled with nice words from agents, they might be misled and sign up for the policy.

 

[Perisher]

Technically it's called an anticipated endowment, or a savings and insurance plan. Somewhere along the line people started calling it savings plan and that word has stuck since.

If you tell a layman you want to talk about an anticipated endowment plan they will be confused. They've come to recognize such plans as savings plans, but everybody's definition of it will differ.

Like you said, some may think it is capital guaranteed etc and this is where confusion may happen.

The important thing is to go through the B.I with the prospect so he/she fully understands what he/she is getting into!

I doubt anyone who realise that the capital put in is not guaranteed would deem it a savings plan. Sometimes agents explain too many things about that policy and lost the crucial points which my 1 sentence above would have alert them to.

Oh, and the projected % interest thing is really a waste of time too. People wants to know the absolute return %, not what they will never get. Even if you tell me your policy earns a 1000% a year but if I only get back 1%, what's the point?

The projected % thing should take a backseat and be a footnote instead of being a attraction bait. The whole insurance industry(not saying the agents but the companies) just care too much about earning $$ and thus mislead everyone. Even the regulators are not smart enough to recognise this.

 

[Perisher]

Since agents and even the company also know people might not understand fully, then change the way the product is introduced and presented.

Instead of just saying "this one not savings la, is anticipated endowment", an agent can choose to spend a few more minutes to explain abit more to the clients that this is not "pure savings" and it comes with a "term insurance" portion. A portion of your premiums will be channeled for this "term insurance".

Is this something very hard to say, or does agents feel it is better to just simply flash this as a "pure savings" and close their deal asap ?

Of course, we must also take a look at benefit illustration but truly speaking, how many people really can understand ? If I ask my mother or father to read, they will not comprehend at all. In Cantonese, it is called "mong cha cha", and then coupled with nice words from agents, they might be misled and sign up for the policy.

Exactly. The time taken to fully understand so many of these complex policies can be better put to other much more simplified plans that can earn higher and protect more.

 

[edwinttt1978]

Naturally, when something goes wrong, all fault goes to the agents who have painted attractive colours on policies. Clients, however greedy, ignorant or lacking intelligence, are not blameworthy at all.

 

[Perisher]

Naturally, when something goes wrong, all fault goes to the agents who have painted attractive colours on policies. Clients, however greedy, ignorant or lacking intelligence, are not blameworthy at all.

Greed perhaps but

1) Ignorance?
So blame one's own ignorance when they clearly hired FA for advices because they are less knowledgeable in this aspect?

2) Lacking intelligence?
It's just difficult for some people to understand complex policies, why blame them? So everyone must be damn smart before asking FA for advice?

Let's just say this, a lot of FA/IFA out there have a tendency to misled.
As you said, painting attractive colours on policies...

The insurance companies themselves and the regulator too have a duty to say things as it is instead of putting gimmicks like 5.25%/4.75% or whatever attractive %returns when it's not the case...

Anyway, yup, there is no one who cares more about your own $$ than yourselves.

 

[wts2013]

hahaha, that's why moi always say insurance is pian chiak one, they play on your greed and fear

so far moi only read alot of complains on pru here, hahaha

 

[spiritGate]

Naturally, when something goes wrong, all fault goes to the agents who have painted attractive colours on policies. Clients, however greedy, ignorant or lacking intelligence, are not blameworthy at all.

You must understand that not everyone is financial savvy and certainly, and the one who initiate/propose such plan are the so called financial advisor. With the title if financial advisor, they should provide appropriate plan for their customers. The so called "FA" are the ones who promise that they will get high returns and etc. Certainly, if someone told u tat you can get 5% return say until like confirm will get, you will buy in de mah. I know you might say you are smart and etc. Yes you might be but not all people are financial savvy.

Sent from sent from gagt using GAGT

 

[edwinttt1978]

It is perfectly understandable that moths are drawn to flame.
We can only pity the moths' innate fragility and put the blame entirely on the wicked flame.

 

[Shion]

Anyway, this is not the 1st time someone casts doubts on PruFlexiCash.

Perhaps the number of doubts from this forum is too little to be significant, yet on the other hand one can wonder about why this particular plan is a somewhat common topic after ILPs.

Too many people bought this plan and end up having more qns in their mind years later ?

A problem with clients ?
A problem with agents ?
A problem with Pru ?
A problem with policy ?

You make your judgement.

 

[Perisher]

It is perfectly understandable that moths are drawn to flame.
We can only pity the moths' innate fragility and put the blame entirely on the wicked flame.

Be objective.

 

[Lewis.T]

Anyway, this is not the 1st time someone casts doubts on PruFlexiCash.

Perhaps the number of doubts from this forum is too little to be significant, yet on the other hand one can wonder about why this particular plan is a somewhat common topic after ILPs.

Too many people bought this plan and end up having more qns in their mind years later ?

A problem with clients ?
A problem with agents ?
A problem with Pru ?
A problem with policy ?

You make your judgement.

Probably because we were the first to start with the anticipated endowment idea, and that our plan has been in the market for quite awhile. Just my guess, I may not be correct.

 

[wts2013]

hahaha, moi never like pru, their aggressive selling tactics, always selling "savings plan", everything also call "savings plan", hahaha, once moi signup an endowment plan, then changed my mind, agent refuse to allow moi to cancel within free look period, pester n pester, in the end still cancel, this is too much, hahaha

now moi got prudential mthly premium, pay with cc to get 3% cashback, hahaha, improve moi's return on investment lor, luckily only got endowment "sure make" plan, hahaha, bundled with high interest rate FD, hahaha, they (bank) managed to play with my greed lor, hahaha

 

[Shion]

Probably because we were the first to start with the anticipated endowment idea, and that our plan has been in the market for quite awhile. Just my guess, I may not be correct.

I would boldly say, its with the agent. Why ? Because so many are selling this as a "pure savings plan"

 

[Shion]

I give you an example, a 25 year plan.

If you take out cashback every year from when you are able to, you will receive this 24 times in 25 years.

Lets assume you are doing a $200/mth plan, cashback will be about $1500/mth, total premiums will be $60k.

Total cashback received will be 36k, the remaining in the plan that you cannot withdraw is 24k.

The 24k will still continue to grow, to become 35k.

Cashback received = 36k
Maturity value = 35k
Total received = 71k
Total premiums paid = 60k

If you do not intend to use the cashback and let it compound, your 60k will become about 85k.

Please show me a sample of the benefit illustration because this is not what I know.

Also, cashbacks is yearly and not monthly

I have samples of benefit illustrations for both PruFlexiCash and PruFlexiCash Protection Plus.

 

[Lewis.T]

Please show me a sample of the benefit illustration because this is not what I know.

Also, cashbacks is yearly and not monthly

I have samples of benefit illustrations for both PruFlexiCash and PruFlexiCash Protection Plus.

Sorry, great catch. It's per year, but my calculations are based on per year, so calculations wise still remains the same.

 

[Shion]

Please provide that sample of benefit illustration with OPTION 3 -- ACCUMULATED CASHBACK