Prudential Pruflexicash

[Shion]

I don't wish to talk to you as you have repeatedly dodged away some of my questions.

You keep on focus on how returns are made while I am focusing on how Prudential is marketing this policy.

We are both at different sides.

Btw, that is meant to be a EDMW-style comment. EDMW-style comments need not much logic.

 

[Shion]

And let me repeat one more time

I don't want to hear anymore complaints on PruFlexiCash. You as a client don't want to go through the policy, or lack in the financial knowledge of this plan, it is your fault. Don't blame it on Pru agents who tells you this is a "savings plan".

At the end of the day, you can choose to sign or not to sign.

All in all, forever is clients fault.

CLIENTS DESERVE IT IF THEY WANT TO SURRENDER EARLY.

 

[Shion]

Wow, just wow. I see you've thrown all sense of logic out the window.

I've made my point here and in several other threads of how your returns are made, if you choose to surrender early for whatever reason then don't expect to get back as much as what you put in.

https://www.prudential.com.sg/expor...es/downloads/reports/abu/2014/RPL_English.pdf

I guess half a billion paid out in 2014 is fake /sarcasm.

Yes, when you request for a cashback, you also can don't expect to get back as much as what you put in because the interest that will be generated will also be lower.

However, in your words, from another post, you have suggested that there will be no change because the "non-cashback" value will still generate the same amount of interest and total amount will not be affected which is untrue as interest earned from the accumulated cashback will be listed under "non-guaranteed" instead of "guaranteed"

Should I keep my cashbacks accumulated and add in all those bonuses, my returns eventually should be higher instead.

 

[Lewis.T]

Misled/Confused. That's what's happening in those.
Happening on a random basis is perhaps fine but when tons of threads is about this, that means something is seriously wrong with the policy/agents/company. Specifically the way they are presented.



As can be seen in this agent stated example, regular savings plan is a clearly misleading/confusing term to use on investment plans.

There are many examples of misleading/confusing words by the company/policy/agents which is allowed by the authority but misleading/confusing for the layman.

It might be the case, but funnily enough it's the general public that's asking for savings plans, because they don't know what an endowment is.

I can only hope things get better as we go forward, and the importance of both the agent and to-be policy owner ironing out all questions about the proposed plan.

The best is if the policy owner understands his own policy in full too.

 

[Lewis.T]

Yes, when you request for a cashback, you also can don't expect to get back as much as what you put in because the interest that will be generated will also be lower.

However, in your words, from another post, you have suggested that there will be no change because the "non-cashback" value will still generate the same amount of interest and total amount will not be affected which is untrue.

Should I keep my cashbacks accumulated and add in all those bonuses, my returns eventually should be higher instead.

You are misquoting me. I did say that the overall returns will be lower, but that is because the cashback that you withdrew are not 'growing'.

What I'm saying is, if Pru continues to manage the fund like they have, the little bit that is 'growing', coupled with the cashback that you have withdrawn from the plan, will be more than the total amount of premiums put in. Which is a win for policy holders and Prudential and the agent.

Accumulate cashback option.
You accumulate your cashback at the prevailing interest, and it grows.
The premium that is not your cashback also grows to become 'x'.

Cashback every year option from when it's available.
You withdraw your guaranteed cashback and there is nothing to grow here.
The premium that is not your cashback grows to become the same 'x' as above.

There is no decrease in the x, but the total growth is slightly lesser because of the cashback not earning interest. Overall between your withdrawals and premiums and growth, there is still money to be made - unless Pru funds goes to hell year on year for every year until your policy is over and then your policy goes down with it.

This is what I said.

 

[Shion]

You also failed, totally FAILED, to note the simple fact that your PruFlexiCash is a big big disadvantage as compared to other plans because your plan is a mixed "savings + term insurance" which MOST OF THE AGENTS DO NOT EVEN MENTION THIS AND MERELY SAYS "IT IS A SAVINGS PLAN".

I might as well put my money inside Tokio Marine's Nest Egg (GIO Cashback) whereby the returns are so much higher than Prudential, and then take up a pure term insurance that can provide me with a higher death benefit, CI and TPD.

 

[Shion]

It might be the case, but funnily enough it's the general public that's asking for savings plans, because they don't know what an endowment is.

I can only hope things get better as we go forward, and the importance of both the agent and to-be policy owner ironing out all questions about the proposed plan.

The best is if the policy owner understands his own policy in full too.

That is why, agents should explain clearly instead of bluntly saying "this is a savings plan" which is bullshyt.

Really, take a good look around the forum, how many members talked about this policy ? You can do a search yourself on other forums too. This policy always have doubts and problems, what makes this policy so "special" and "outstanding" ?

Of course, policy owners should also understand their policy as well, I do not doubt that. But don't you think that the sellers should be equally ethical enough to tell clients the correct information instead of some smoking effect ?

I used to engage with Pru agents before when they try to sell these products. I immediately thrash them in their face "why is this a savings plan which you claimed when it is printed so big it is not savings plan". They just smoke my way through.

Is this the correct way ? Is this ethical ? Can you please tell me is this what Pru is teaching ?

 

[Lewis.T]

You also failed, totally FAILED, to note the simple fact that your PruFlexiCash is a big big disadvantage as compared to other plans because your plan is a mixed "savings + term insurance" which MOST OF THE AGENTS DO NOT EVEN MENTION THIS AND MERELY SAYS "IT IS A SAVINGS PLAN".

I might as well put my money inside Tokio Marine's Nest Egg (GIO Cashback) whereby the returns are so much higher than Prudential, and then take up a pure term insurance that can provide me with a higher death benefit, CI and TPD.

I'm talking about the merits of holding onto the plan, and making it work for you, as well as understanding the plan. Please don't go strawman on me now.

If you think the term insurance portion of it is huge, for about $200/mth premiums you get 30k coverage. To put it into perspective for you, for a term plan that covers 25 years, the same 200/mth can get me $3.68M coverage. It's not even 1%.

But look, if it comes from an insurance company, expect some coverage. Even the TM Nest Egg plan you were talking about has it. They've just structured it so that it is capital guaranteed. TM Nest Egg also does not have a cashback feature, and is limited premium term, so you're not exactly comparing it fairly here.

If you want to compare something similar you may want to look at our PruSave Limited pay series or PruWealth.

I'm not saying Flexicash is good or bad, it really depends on what your intention for it is. The flexibility could be good if you're in your 20s and may have additional spending needs in the near future, but still want to have a little bit of assurance in case something goes wrong and the plan will be fully paid up if you took the waiver riders for example.

It also can be bad when you have no idea what you want it for and just wanted some place to park your money in a safe environment with higher interest than what a regular bank account can do for you (your case perhaps).

 

[Shion]

I'm talking about the merits of holding onto the plan, and making it work for you, as well as understanding the plan. Please don't go strawman on me now.

Let me tell you bluntly, my hatred for Prudential is very very deep

If you think the term insurance portion of it is huge, for about $200/mth premiums you get 30k coverage. To put it into perspective for you, for a term plan that covers 25 years, the same 200/mth can get me $3.68M coverage. It's not even 1%.

The portion is not huge but however using the money and get a term insurance is more logical and beneficial rather than mixing savings with insurance.

This is totally comparable to why you should not buy ILP because it is a mixed investments + whole life policy

But look, if it comes from an insurance company, expect some coverage. Even the TM Nest Egg plan you were talking about has it. They've just structured it so that it is capital guaranteed. TM Nest Egg also does not have a cashback feature, and is limited premium term, so you're not exactly comparing it fairly here.

Kindly do your research again as Tokio Marine Nest Egg has a cashback plan. Do you need me to scan entire policy on both the non-cashback plan and the cashback plan?

Do you think I will even bring this out if I know it is not apple-to-apple comparison ?

I'm not saying Flexicash is good or bad, it really depends on what your intention for it is. The flexibility could be good if you're in your 20s and may have additional spending needs in the near future, but still want to have a little bit of assurance in case something goes wrong and the plan will be fully paid up if you took the waiver riders for example.

From the start till the end,

1) I did not claim that this policy does not earn money
2) I did not claim that this policy is good or bad

I, from the start, has been questioning on the way how this policy is marketed.

It also can be bad when you have no idea what you want it for and just wanted some place to park your money in a safe environment with higher interest than what a regular bank account can do for you (your case perhaps).

This is indeed a slap across everyone who bought this policy and complained/have doubts about it.

You have, once again, effectively dodged all responsibilities agents and Pru should take but push it all to clients.

Blame it on clients who do not know what they want, and remove the blame on agents who are blindly selling this product without doing much financial planning for the clients.

 

[Lewis.T]

Hi, before you start your slander, I am in no way responsible to you as I have not sold anything to you or even proposed any plans to you.

Let me tell you bluntly, my hatred for Prudential is very very deep

Yes, we all can see that. Is it unfounded? Maybe not. Should you argue based on emotions? Definitely not.

I am here to try and figure out and explain the sequence of events that happened that makes some people lose (surrender) from the policy, or gain from the policy.

The portion is not huge but however using the money and get a term insurance is more logical and beneficial rather than mixing savings with insurance.

This is totally comparable to why you should not buy ILP because it is a mixed investments + whole life policy

Then why talk about TM nest egg now? It has a term insurance portion too does it not?

Kindly do your research again as Tokio Marine Nest Egg has a cashback plan. Do you need me to scan entire policy on both the non-cashback plan and the cashback plan?

You didn't mention you were looking at the one with the cashback feature. I was looking at the one without. Fair enough I should have assumed you were trying to compare something as similar as possible. Still, it is limited pay. Limited pay products usually have a higher guaranteed amount. So although similar in some aspects, still not the same.

Also, the brochure shows that it is only capital guaranteed if you do an annual premium. Thus still making it not suitable for a monthly savings plan in your opinion? I don't want to try and understand your logic because it clearly contradicts what you say at times.

From the start till the end,

1) I did not claim that this policy does not earn money
2) I did not claim that this policy is good or bad

I also did not say that you mentioned you will never make money from the plan. How did you come to that conclusion? Twice now.

I, from the start, has been questioning on the way how this policy is marketed.

Fair enough, but don't bundle me with other agents. I make sure my clients understand the benefits as well as the downsides of the plan.

This is indeed a plain slap across everyone who bought this policy and complained/have doubts about it.

I understand where this is coming from, that's why as much as possible I'm trying to help people find alternative uses for the plan, instead of taking that big slap across the face. I helped the TS find a solution for his pains did I not?

 

[Shion]

Yes, we all can see that. Is it unfounded? Maybe not. Should you argue based on emotions? Definitely not.

The fact is that this policy is misrepresented and you refuse to comment about this makes me mad and you keep on talking about returns which I am not that interested in.

Then why talk about TM nest egg now? It has a term insurance portion too does it not?

You didn't mention you were looking at the one with the cashback feature. I was looking at the one without. Fair enough I should have assumed you were trying to compare something as similar as possible. Still, it is limited pay. Limited pay products usually have a higher guaranteed amount. So although similar in some aspects, still not the same.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/97430162-post66.html

Look carefully.

I said

Tokio Marine's Nest Egg (GIO Cashback)

I also did not say that you mentioned you will never make money from the plan. How did you come to that conclusion? Twice now.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/97420667-post45.html
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/97422338-post47.html

Your idea is there

Fair enough, but don't bundle me with other agents. I make sure my clients understand the benefits as well as the downsides of the plan.

Good, good, keep it up.

I understand where this is coming from, that's why as much as possible I'm trying to help people find alternative uses for the plan, instead of taking that big slap across the face. I helped the TS find a solution for his pains did I not?

You did help, but your latest comment is a slap across the face.

To repeat what I said

Blame it on clients who do not know what they want, and remove the blame on agents who are blindly selling this product without doing much financial planning for the clients.

 

[Shion]

Really, if you think what I said is illogical, nonsense, baseless...

There is no need to reply to me, because nothing will change...

 

[Lewis.T]

Really, if you think what I said is illogical, nonsense, baseless...

There is no need to reply to me, because nothing will change...

That's true. Thanks for your arguments then.

 

[Perisher]

Thread closed.