PRUDENTIAL SAVINGS SAGA

iperiodic

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https://www.prudential.com.sg/expor...Vantage_Technical_Product_Booklet_english.pdf

Based on the surrender charge table, if i surrender before 2 years, the surrender charge is 100%? Meaning i dun get back all of it?

Not you don't get back all of it. You get back NOTHING.

The % you see is how much you will give them. So if it's 90% for example, you only get 10% back and so on. 100% means you get 0$ back.

Would highly suggest u start a new thread and share your current policies and the experts will comment. :)
 
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shadow84

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Not you don't get back all of it. You get back NOTHING.

The % you see is how much you will give them. So if it's 90% for example, you only get 10% back and so on. 100% means you get 0$ back.

Would highly suggest u start a new thread and share your current policies and the experts will comment. :)

Will do that when im home.
 

iperiodic

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Will do that when im home.

Don't rush it, it's not as if your money is headed for a loss. You will earn (non guanranteed) if the projected returns are accurate, I am merely highlighting the fees involved, don't be too concerned.
 

koja6049

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koja6049

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http://dollarsandsense.sg/understandingendowment-plan-in-singapore/

good read for those who want to understand why endowments are useless products

This picture should be stickied on any thread about endowments plans :D

Endowment-Plan.png
 

Lewis.T

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Cute how that article can't even calculate properly lol

Plus their choice of endowment to show seems pretty bad. Pru isn't known for being cheap on deductions but ours is projecting 2.4+% for the same limited premium endowment.
 

Lewis.T

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Very selective in the articles you wish to share as well, here's another article by the same author.

http://dollarsandsense.sg/5-things-financial-advisors-cant-seem-to-agree-on-and-how-it-affects-you-as-a-customer/ said:
While I advocate a ‘buy a term and invest the rest’ approach, I also agree that there is still a need for basic protection for life.

In the current market, there are hybrid term-life plans. This type of plan provide basic coverage for life and a multiplier on the basic coverage until a certain age. This will serve the purpose of having higher coverage during our prime years and basic coverage for life time. If you add in CI or early CI as a rider, the plan may be more affordable as compared to a term plan.

When it comes to investment returns, there are always two factors to consider – risk and return.

Investing directly in the market will result in higher returns but may also carry a higher risk. What if you invest for 2 years and then something happen to you? You will have no more earnings and no more free cash for investment. How then do you ensure that you will still be able to accumulate sufficient savings for your child education?

What if the stock market crashes at the year when your child needs to go to university? Are you able to liquidate your investment to pay for your child education there and then?

I always propose a balanced approach. One should consider getting a basic endowment plan and also invest directly in the market to get higher returns. This should give better return in totality and also provide a certain payout if a catastrophic event should happen.
 

akwl88

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You still haven sic the BI with guranteed returns of the endowments plans u are selling
 

Lewis.T

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You still haven sic the BI with guranteed returns of the endowments plans u are selling

Your question is obviously inclined towards SSB, what kind of person makes that kind of argument? Circular reasoning is an argumentative fallacy.

You don't understand the non-guaranteed portion exists or you refuse to recognize it exists? :s11:

Trying my best not to question your logic but how does one always argue using fallacies? I don't think that's normal for logical people.
 
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akwl88

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Your question is obviously inclined towards SSB, what kind of person makes that kind of argument? Circular reasoning is an argumentative fallacy.

You don't understand the non-guaranteed portion exists or you refuse to recognize it exists? :s11:

Trying my best not to question your logic but how does one always argue using fallacies? I don't think that's normal for logical people.

Chiu understand the meaning of non guaranteed?

And then chiu recommend products with non-guaranteed elements as savings products?

Chiu trying to pull a fast one?
 

archcherub

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for a long time i always think we shld know better and buying investment or endowment plans from insurance agents is stupid.

the truth is, if we make the effort to visit a forum named "money mind", we are already a lot better and informed than most of the general public out there.

most people do not know or would NOT even want to know how to get better returns.

there are lot of people who could not, and does not possess the ability to understand these.

putting money in endowment plan is waaay better than what they could achieve in their own.
we laugh when we make a joke at how people "invest" in toto and 4d. but there are people who really see it as a long term "investment".

and of course there are people who without the compulsory savings of insurance, probably would not even manage to save.

i believe most of us here are smart enough to not need CPF for our retirement.
i would not dare to make the same conclusion for 90% of the singaporeans out there.....
 

iperiodic

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for a long time i always think we shld know better and buying investment or endowment plans from insurance agents is stupid.

the truth is, if we make the effort to visit a forum named "money mind", we are already a lot better and informed than most of the general public out there.

most people do not know or would NOT even want to know how to get better returns.

there are lot of people who could not, and does not possess the ability to understand these.

putting money in endowment plan is waaay better than what they could achieve in their own.
we laugh when we make a joke at how people "invest" in toto and 4d. but there are people who really see it as a long term "investment".

and of course there are people who without the compulsory savings of insurance, probably would not even manage to save.

i believe most of us here are smart enough to not need CPF for our retirement.
i would not dare to make the same conclusion for 90% of the singaporeans out there.....

Agreed. Had no idea about passive investing and all. One day I decided to google 'AXA Pulsar good or not', clicked the first link, and I've been reading Money Mind all the time. Mummy says don't listen to advice online, i think sometimes it's worth a read. :s12:
 

Lewis.T

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Chiu understand the meaning of non guaranteed?

And then chiu recommend products with non-guaranteed elements as savings products?

Chiu trying to pull a fast one?

Here we go

Firstly I cannot answer your question because each individual's definition of savings is different.

However, to determine which is a more suitable product for person x, we have to set certain parameters for person x.

Let us determine that person x is an extremely conservative person who is not capable of taking on absolutely any risk. Suitable investment vehicles for him would include bank savings accounts, fixed deposits and certain CDs, SSB, and certain endowments among other solutions.

What is the next logical step to determine the best solution?

Let us take out the 'noise' for this comparison and only compare SSB and one of Pru's endowments for example. Also, for the purpose of this comparison, we will be looking at expected returns and take out all the fluff like premium waiver and death benefit.

Various factors are at play here, including the need for liquidity, time horizon, amount to be saved, method of saving (regular, irregular, lump sum) for example. There are many other factors.

Lets say person x wishes to save a lump sum of $50000, has a need for liquidity and has 10 years before he wants to use it for his original purpose. SSB is fantastic here, it meets all the criteria of person x plus his time horizon allows him to fully maximize his interest earned from SSB!

What if person x wishes to save a regular amount of $200 per month from his salary, has no need for liquidity, and has 20 years before he wants to use the money. An endowment serves this purpose well.

Reasons why SSB would not be favourable in this scenario is as listed, and could include more.

1. You cannot start an SSB with $200, because the minimum is $500.

2. When you do accumulate enough to start, you've lost some time for compounding.

3. SSB is horrible for regular savings as it has a poor long term compounding effect. Even if you could start the SSB on $200 in the first month, that issue will end after 10 years. You will then have to take that amount and reinvest it again for another 10 years. If you cannot see this point, I'll make it easier to understand. It's akin to comparing FD 1 year to SSB for the long term. I'm sure we know which is more convenient and has a bigger compounding effect here.

4. Convenience. You have to take up a new SSB every 2-3 months at the start, and even more towards the end as you receive the coupons and have the $500 min to get another SSB issue.

5. Expected returns. SSB wins in a certain aspect that all its returns are guaranteed. However, realistically speaking, an endowment in that scenario should almost always come out on top for returns, due to the fact that in 20 years the SSB will average 1+% interest (based on this Month's issue, and using similar interest over the 20 year period). How unlikely is an endowment to underperform 1+% over 20 years is up for debate.

Conclusion - One is better than the other depending on the individual's circumstance. There is no clear winner.

There are more points to cover but I'm getting lazy at this point, I think this should be sufficient as I doubt you read my posts in full, and I'm probably wasting my time on you. To be honest you've never come across to me as an intellectual. I hope you can prove me wrong and we can have intellectual discussions on this and future matters.
 
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Perisher

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Here we go

Firstly I cannot answer your question because each individual's definition of savings is different.

However, to determine which is a more suitable product for person x, we have to set certain parameters for person x.

Let us determine that person x is an extremely conservative person who is not capable of taking on absolutely any risk. Suitable investment vehicles for him would include bank savings accounts, fixed deposits and certain CDs, SSB, and certain endowments among other solutions.

What is the next logical step to determine the best solution?

Let us take out the 'noise' for this comparison and only compare SSB and one of Pru's endowments for example. Also, for the purpose of this comparison, we will be looking at expected returns and take out all the fluff like premium waiver and death benefit.

Various factors are at play here, including the need for liquidity, time horizon, amount to be saved, method of saving (regular, irregular, lump sum) for example. There are many other factors.

Lets say person x wishes to save a lump sum of $50000, has a need for liquidity and has 10 years before he wants to use it for his original purpose. SSB is fantastic here, it meets all the criteria of person x plus his time horizon allows him to fully maximize his interest earned from SSB!

What if person x wishes to save a regular amount of $200 per month from his salary, has no need for liquidity, and has 20 years before he wants to use the money. An endowment serves this purpose well.

Reasons why SSB would not be favourable in this scenario is as listed, and could include more.

1. You cannot start an SSB with $200, because the minimum is $500.

2. When you do accumulate enough to start, you've lost some time for compounding.

3. SSB is horrible for regular savings as it has a poor long term compounding effect. Even if you could start the SSB on $200 in the first month, that issue will end after 10 years. You will then have to take that amount and reinvest it again for another 10 years. If you cannot see this point, I'll make it easier to understand. It's akin to comparing FD 1 year to SSB for the long term. I'm sure we know which is more convenient and has a bigger compounding effect here.

4. Convenience. You have to take up a new SSB every 2-3 months at the start, and even more towards the end as you receive the coupons and have the $500 min to get another SSB issue.

5. Expected returns. SSB wins in a certain aspect that all its returns are guaranteed. However, realistically speaking, an endowment in that scenario should almost always come out on top for returns, due to the fact that in 20 years the SSB will average 1+% interest (based on this Month's issue, and using similar interest over the 20 year period). How unlikely is an endowment to underperform 1+% over 20 years is up for debate.

Conclusion - One is better than the other depending on the individual's circumstance. There is no clear winner.

There are more points to cover but I'm getting lazy at this point, I think this should be sufficient as I doubt you read my posts in full, and I'm probably wasting my time on you. To be honest you've never come across to me as an intellectual. I hope you can prove me wrong and we can have intellectual discussions on this and future matters.

The bolded part is quite a bias opinion. I don't see any part where you put 'horrible' on endowment in this post while once a product is not suitable in very niche area, you tag 'horrible'?

That's the same as you saying endowment is horrible product for
1. any long term savers if they wanna take it out anytime
2. or if they want guaranteed 2%+ returns
3. or they want shorter than 20 years product.
4. or they want regular savers product that guaranteed returns and do more than break-even
5. or they want a 10 year liquid product
6. or they want a no penalty product
7. or they want a pro-rated returns product
8. or they want any combination of the above factors.

Now, will agents put that up for comparison? :s11:
I doubt it. Not one agent has mentioned SSB without me mentioning it when meeting. Some agents here even posted before that he would not say this product even if he knew it exist unless probed.

Also, how is SSB even horrible for regular long term savings when it can be compounded if you wanna build a bond ladder?
It is not for those without a little discipline. But other than the very niche area whereby it needs to be under $500/month, how can one even conclude a horrible tag for regular long term savings? What even justify that?

So Agents uses such wordings to push down a product when they keep harping on that different products serves different needs? Now they are saying products are horrible when it doesn't match? Haven't heard any agents meet up and say ILP/endowment/wholelife is horrible coz of these and these blah blah... :s11:

Number 5 is also really weird, the overall returns for this month's SSB is averaged out to be 2.32% using similar returns over 20 years. Don't understand how you even get 1% which is far from the 2.32% averaged out over the 10 years(or your case, 20 years with similar returns) even accounting for the effect of compounding no?
 
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akwl88

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Here we go

Firstly I cannot answer your question because each individual's definition of savings is different.

However, to determine which is a more suitable product for person x, we have to set certain parameters for person x.

Let us determine that person x is an extremely conservative person who is not capable of taking on absolutely any risk. Suitable investment vehicles for him would include bank savings accounts, fixed deposits and certain CDs, SSB, and certain endowments among other solutions.

What is the next logical step to determine the best solution?

Let us take out the 'noise' for this comparison and only compare SSB and one of Pru's endowments for example. Also, for the purpose of this comparison, we will be looking at expected returns and take out all the fluff like premium waiver and death benefit.

Various factors are at play here, including the need for liquidity, time horizon, amount to be saved, method of saving (regular, irregular, lump sum) for example. There are many other factors.

Lets say person x wishes to save a lump sum of $50000, has a need for liquidity and has 10 years before he wants to use it for his original purpose. SSB is fantastic here, it meets all the criteria of person x plus his time horizon allows him to fully maximize his interest earned from SSB!

What if person x wishes to save a regular amount of $200 per month from his salary, has no need for liquidity, and has 20 years before he wants to use the money. An endowment serves this purpose well.

Reasons why SSB would not be favourable in this scenario is as listed, and could include more.

1. You cannot start an SSB with $200, because the minimum is $500.

2. When you do accumulate enough to start, you've lost some time for compounding.

3. SSB is horrible for regular savings as it has a poor long term compounding effect. Even if you could start the SSB on $200 in the first month, that issue will end after 10 years. You will then have to take that amount and reinvest it again for another 10 years. If you cannot see this point, I'll make it easier to understand. It's akin to comparing FD 1 year to SSB for the long term. I'm sure we know which is more convenient and has a bigger compounding effect here.

4. Convenience. You have to take up a new SSB every 2-3 months at the start, and even more towards the end as you receive the coupons and have the $500 min to get another SSB issue.

5. Expected returns. SSB wins in a certain aspect that all its returns are guaranteed. However, realistically speaking, an endowment in that scenario should almost always come out on top for returns, due to the fact that in 20 years the SSB will average 1+% interest (based on this Month's issue, and using similar interest over the 20 year period). How unlikely is an endowment to underperform 1+% over 20 years is up for debate.

Conclusion - One is better than the other depending on the individual's circumstance. There is no clear winner.

There are more points to cover but I'm getting lazy at this point, I think this should be sufficient as I doubt you read my posts in full, and I'm probably wasting my time on you. To be honest you've never come across to me as an intellectual. I hope you can prove me wrong and we can have intellectual discussions on this and future matters.

Like i said, sic the BI of a 20 yrs endowment plan and we cont our discussion

No point writting wall of text when u are not being transparent
 

akwl88

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Futhermore, if he is only able to save 200 per month, he shld be focussing on increasing his earnings and savinga rate, instead of locking up his money in endowment.

The cash flow will be tight if he is only able to save 200 per month.

U paint such a perfect scenario but are you able to guaranteed he wont need the money before 20 yrs is up?

Will you bring out ssb as another alternative?

Like perisher said, the agents he met has not bring up other better alternatives. Same exp as me. And if u kenna agents from roadshow, its the same tactic comparing bank int rate vs their endowment plans. Agents only pushes their own products because of commissions. It is the hard truth and fact.

And then they call themselves financial planner....
 

Shion

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Erm...Since you guys feel negative, not too sure why still engage with agents at roadshows ?
 
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