valdrictan
Junior Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2018
- Messages
- 27
- Reaction score
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TL; DR: When paying via Apple Pay or any other middleman digital payment platform, it is possible you can be in a scenario where you are double charged and denied a refund but not given a reason why and told to "stick it". Furthermore, legal protection is "limited" depending on variables such as purchase amount.
Detailed Story
On 30 Mar 2023 - Thursday, I used Apple Pay to purchase an "in-game/app lootbox" called "Seeker's Supplies" for SGD8.98 (without GST) on a mobile game "Diablo Immortal". For those who play the game, you would know this lootbox can only be purchased ONCE on Monday and Thursday. During the transaction, my app had crashed or had produced an in game error and thus I reloaded the app and tried to perform the transaction again. As it is one time purchase and I was allowed (buy button not greyed out) I assume the transaction did not go thru previously. This time round the transaction was successful.
I then received an email invoice from Apple showing that I had purchased the product TWICE. However, I had checked that I only received ONE of the lootbox and not TWO.
I immediately raised a dispute via the ios platform and "spoonfeed" the assessor that a double charge for this item is not possible. The following day, I received an email asking me to login to view the refund status. Upon logging in, it stated the refund had been denied with reason "Not eligible for refund".
I immediately submitted a second refund request further requesting to check with the game developer or run an audit. The following day, I received an email asking me to login to view the refund status. Upon logging in, it stated the refund had been denied with reason "Not eligible for refund".
On 3 April 2023, I called Apple Support and despite requesting to speak to "higher level" staff such as manager or supervisor etc, the only response is "our decision is final". I asked for a physical human whom I could speak to face to face and was told to go to "Apple South Asia Pte Ltd 7 Ang Mo Kio Street 64 Singapore 569086" and given a case id 101968854454. I tried to call before going down that this was the right place to go so as not to make a wasted trip even despite knowing that even with public transport, this is more than half of the claim amount. I googled the phone number "6481 5511". If you call the phone number, you will hear a voice recording to call the Apple Support hotline and be immediately cut off.
I called Apple Support again and this time a representative "Michael" told me he would "personally deal with my case" and update me the following day. He also provided a link for me to send messages to them. However, i did not receive any followup call.
I waited till 7 April and dropped a message but a representative "Maria" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email. I did not receive a call on 8 April.
On 11 April, I dropped another message as i had not received any callback. but a representative "Eunice" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email.
On 13 April, I received what seem to be an automated email stating "we tried to reach you". However, I had received no missed call.
I dropped another message on 14 April stating i received no missed call and a representative "Maria" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email.
On 18 April, I decided to call Apple Support. Maybe my luck not so good that day, but my line got cut off on both call. Typical apple support waiting time is about 15 - 30 minute inclusive of transfer to senior advisor. I received an email from "Jo" asking me to call them back.
I did so and managed to speak to a representative "Rasida" who told me that I am not eligible for refund and to educate myself on their refund policy
https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/ww/
On a side note, they could have just told me so via email instead of making me go thru the rigmarole of all these messages.
If you have read and followed the long story, I still have no idea why I am denied a refund. I had gone thru all the above and the only thing I am told is "no refund", not allowed to speak to anyone higher up then call center staff but unable to give the reason why.
Consumer Protection
You may assume you are protected in the age of digital payment and "oh its Singapore" supposedly being a place of high consumer confidence, business hub yada yada....
But this is what this post is aimed at, to tell you that you are not.
I went to the police station but was told they do not deal with such cases, but was instead told to go to
https://www.judiciary.gov.sg/civil/cases-eligible-small-claim
I went thru the form filling but it seem that I need to find documents such as their ACRA forms etc which is alot of work and time and definitely not worth 8.98.
I looked at CASE website but seem like need to pay sgd27.
UOBank said they cannot deal with this as it is not scam.
Additional Background
I had been ghost charged (txn i did not make) on apple pay. - refunded
I had been double charged (similar situation as above but for about sgd68) - refunded but had to go thru similar lengthy rigmarole.
Deeper level: Things I feel consumers should be aware of and things to think about which may include or suggest some false insinuation(s)
Do you check your bills in detail? Big companies ghost charge etc. Imagine how much "extra income" they get from customers who do not check.
For those that do check their bills, most people would give up and just throw the towel especially for small purchase and that is ALOT of potential free income as well.
Does the above have a positive impact on consumer confidence? If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone else. in my case I am lucky its just SGD8.98 but i still choose to spend the time to share about this experience. The next time you use Apple Pay or some other platforms to make digital payments for expensive items it is good to DYODD and be mentally prepared for such incidents. Are these middleman able to or invest in the infrastructure to remedy without unnecessary mental stress (long wait time, long hold time etc).
For business owners, if there is "non existent" consumer protection and digital payments being more common, more cases may arise and consumers may not be confident to transact online and can be a vicious cycle.
Detailed Story
On 30 Mar 2023 - Thursday, I used Apple Pay to purchase an "in-game/app lootbox" called "Seeker's Supplies" for SGD8.98 (without GST) on a mobile game "Diablo Immortal". For those who play the game, you would know this lootbox can only be purchased ONCE on Monday and Thursday. During the transaction, my app had crashed or had produced an in game error and thus I reloaded the app and tried to perform the transaction again. As it is one time purchase and I was allowed (buy button not greyed out) I assume the transaction did not go thru previously. This time round the transaction was successful.
I then received an email invoice from Apple showing that I had purchased the product TWICE. However, I had checked that I only received ONE of the lootbox and not TWO.
I immediately raised a dispute via the ios platform and "spoonfeed" the assessor that a double charge for this item is not possible. The following day, I received an email asking me to login to view the refund status. Upon logging in, it stated the refund had been denied with reason "Not eligible for refund".
I immediately submitted a second refund request further requesting to check with the game developer or run an audit. The following day, I received an email asking me to login to view the refund status. Upon logging in, it stated the refund had been denied with reason "Not eligible for refund".
On 3 April 2023, I called Apple Support and despite requesting to speak to "higher level" staff such as manager or supervisor etc, the only response is "our decision is final". I asked for a physical human whom I could speak to face to face and was told to go to "Apple South Asia Pte Ltd 7 Ang Mo Kio Street 64 Singapore 569086" and given a case id 101968854454. I tried to call before going down that this was the right place to go so as not to make a wasted trip even despite knowing that even with public transport, this is more than half of the claim amount. I googled the phone number "6481 5511". If you call the phone number, you will hear a voice recording to call the Apple Support hotline and be immediately cut off.
I called Apple Support again and this time a representative "Michael" told me he would "personally deal with my case" and update me the following day. He also provided a link for me to send messages to them. However, i did not receive any followup call.
I waited till 7 April and dropped a message but a representative "Maria" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email. I did not receive a call on 8 April.
On 11 April, I dropped another message as i had not received any callback. but a representative "Eunice" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email.
On 13 April, I received what seem to be an automated email stating "we tried to reach you". However, I had received no missed call.
I dropped another message on 14 April stating i received no missed call and a representative "Maria" said he is not around today and will be back tomorrow via email.
On 18 April, I decided to call Apple Support. Maybe my luck not so good that day, but my line got cut off on both call. Typical apple support waiting time is about 15 - 30 minute inclusive of transfer to senior advisor. I received an email from "Jo" asking me to call them back.
I did so and managed to speak to a representative "Rasida" who told me that I am not eligible for refund and to educate myself on their refund policy
https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/ww/
On a side note, they could have just told me so via email instead of making me go thru the rigmarole of all these messages.
If you have read and followed the long story, I still have no idea why I am denied a refund. I had gone thru all the above and the only thing I am told is "no refund", not allowed to speak to anyone higher up then call center staff but unable to give the reason why.
Consumer Protection
You may assume you are protected in the age of digital payment and "oh its Singapore" supposedly being a place of high consumer confidence, business hub yada yada....
But this is what this post is aimed at, to tell you that you are not.
I went to the police station but was told they do not deal with such cases, but was instead told to go to
https://www.judiciary.gov.sg/civil/cases-eligible-small-claim
I went thru the form filling but it seem that I need to find documents such as their ACRA forms etc which is alot of work and time and definitely not worth 8.98.
I looked at CASE website but seem like need to pay sgd27.
UOBank said they cannot deal with this as it is not scam.
Additional Background
I had been ghost charged (txn i did not make) on apple pay. - refunded
I had been double charged (similar situation as above but for about sgd68) - refunded but had to go thru similar lengthy rigmarole.
Deeper level: Things I feel consumers should be aware of and things to think about which may include or suggest some false insinuation(s)
Do you check your bills in detail? Big companies ghost charge etc. Imagine how much "extra income" they get from customers who do not check.
For those that do check their bills, most people would give up and just throw the towel especially for small purchase and that is ALOT of potential free income as well.
Does the above have a positive impact on consumer confidence? If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone else. in my case I am lucky its just SGD8.98 but i still choose to spend the time to share about this experience. The next time you use Apple Pay or some other platforms to make digital payments for expensive items it is good to DYODD and be mentally prepared for such incidents. Are these middleman able to or invest in the infrastructure to remedy without unnecessary mental stress (long wait time, long hold time etc).
For business owners, if there is "non existent" consumer protection and digital payments being more common, more cases may arise and consumers may not be confident to transact online and can be a vicious cycle.
