Question on NTUC IncomeShield + MediShield Life

[shygal2017]

hi all,

I'm new to the forum.

My auntie received a letter from NTUC asking her whether she wants to convert her Incomeshield Plan B to Standard Plan or not.

I've helped her gone through the benefits but am confused coz according to the Standard Plan, the surgery benefits have increased but the 90 days pre-post hospitalization benefits have ceased. Also, for example, dialysis treatment has increased to $2750 per mth for standard plan compared to $2500 for Plan B but the drugs claim for dialysis has also been reduced from $600 per month (plan B) to $450 per month (standard plan). These are just some examples I've provided.

Has anyone converted from Plan B to Standard Plan and is it advisable to do so?

Hope to hear from you guys!

Thanks!

 

[C Justice]

I was faced with this dilemma last month but chose to "upgrade" to Std plan from plan b at the end. It is not a clear cut choice, but a conservative one based on it seems it is easier to downgrade back to Plan B in future vs "upgrade without underwriting".
Also, it seems that inpatient benefits of plan b is marginally better than medi-shield life while std plan inpatient benefits is significantly better than medi-shield life. Premiums wise, std plan premium is not significantly higher than plan b.
Of course, there are some areas have to compromise including std plan lose out on pre/ post hospitalisation benefit and the portion on proration on outpatient hospital treatment in private medical institution which i interpret from some forummers include being disadvantaged in Renal dialysis if being assessed as private patient.

My humble opinion. Welcome any comments/ insights.

 

[peaceone]

I was faced with this dilemma last month but chose to "upgrade" to Std plan from plan b at the end. It is not a clear cut choice, but a conservative one based on it seems it is easier to downgrade back to Plan B in future vs "upgrade without underwriting".
Also, it seems that inpatient benefits of plan b is marginally better than medi-shield life while std plan inpatient benefits is significantly better than medi-shield life. Premiums wise, std plan premium is not significantly higher than plan b.
Of course, there are some areas have to compromise including std plan lose out on pre/ post hospitalisation benefit and the portion on proration on outpatient hospital treatment in private medical institution which i interpret from some forummers include being disadvantaged in Renal dialysis if being assessed as private patient.

My humble opinion. Welcome any comments/ insights.

Must well upgrade to an enhance basic plan. I don't think you can downgrade back to plan B as it's a old plan actually or obsolete soon?

 

[C Justice]

Must well upgrade to an enhance basic plan. I don't think you can downgrade back to plan B as it's a old plan actually or obsolete soon?

If one is ok with underwriting by the insurer, by all means choose the best one can afford. But if one already has existing health issues, then that is not an option.

 

[RoLanTo]

sorry to hijack this thread.. i have a question with regards to enhanced incomeshield plan.

my dad went for heart surgery, i help him bought the "advantage" plan, meaning can go upto A class in govt hospital.. but in midst of discussion with hospital people. i realize that even though i can go for A class.. they advised me not to because heart surgery require long term medication till death OR very long time..

So, if i opt of A class. yes, most of the cost while he is in hospital are covered. but subsequent return visit, he will no longer be a subsidized patient.. meaning the cost will go up significantly for consultation and medication..

right now, i am in dilemma..
1) should i downgrade my parents plan since they will always opt for the B2 class for subsidize rate
2) in the event that i really choose A class for the surgery, is there a way that my parents can become subsidize patient again for their long term medication care??

 

[shygal2017]

hi,

a few of my friends are actually quite pissed off with NTUC benefits for the standard plan.

They say if standard plan premium increases, why some benefits decrease? And this has made them very very confused, especially the old ones. In the end, none of them signed to switch to standard plan as they feel NTUC is just out to get more money. All of them stayed on Plan B.

For example, if standard plan dialysis increases from $2500 (plan b) to $2750 (standard plan) per month, why must NTUC decrease the claim for dialysis drugs from $600 to $450 per month? If we based on a simplistic calculation, isn't it close to nett zero extra benefits for this category and yet increased premium for standard plan?

I feel NTUC should explain in detail what are the actual real life benefits of the standard plan OVER plan B in a manner that can be understood by the average lay person since the premium increases. For eg. Maybe if 90% of the cohort pays more for dialysis treatment per month and less for dialysis drugs in real life, then the amended standard plan will help coz there are more benefits for dialysis treatment and less benefits for dialysis drugs. Of course, I do not know if this is true and it is up to NTUC to explain to all of us insurers.

And not just shove a table comparing Plan B and Standard Plan to all their customers. Not all are medical surgeons and doctors.

There's no standard answer to your questions.

Under the new Standard Plan, you sacrifice the pre/post benefits for overall better inpatient benefits.

The big ticket items in a typical hospitalisation are the inpatient stay and certain long-term outpatient treatments such as chemotherapy and kidney dialysis. Do note that certain outpatient treatments such as the two which was mentioned are still covered under the Standard Plan.

So the normal pre/post benefits in the grand scheme of things become a secondary concern. Ultimately, it's your auntie's decision whether to maintain or upgrade.

She should check with her friendly insurance agent for more professional advice.

 

[shygal2017]

hi there,

I've got a friend who has diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension and bladder cancer stage 1 (yea, poor thing, so many ailments) and he's on Plan B.

And yet, hes paying peanuts for all his hospital expenses.

NTUC sent him a letter to upgrade to standard plan. He read through and couldn't comphrehend why some benefits actually decrease if switch to standard plan when the premium increases for standard plan. He feels NTUC is trying to shortchange him and so he remains on Plan B + medishield Life.

Till today, his $20,000 heart bypass surgery and associated medical costs cost only $500, based on Plan B. And his chemo treatment, is not much either. Certainly not thousands per month. Very affordable. And of course, he stays in Ward B2.

So from this real life case, I think its completely ok to stay on Plan B?

I was faced with this dilemma last month but chose to "upgrade" to Std plan from plan b at the end. It is not a clear cut choice, but a conservative one based on it seems it is easier to downgrade back to Plan B in future vs "upgrade without underwriting".
Also, it seems that inpatient benefits of plan b is marginally better than medi-shield life while std plan inpatient benefits is significantly better than medi-shield life. Premiums wise, std plan premium is not significantly higher than plan b.
Of course, there are some areas have to compromise including std plan lose out on pre/ post hospitalisation benefit and the portion on proration on outpatient hospital treatment in private medical institution which i interpret from some forummers include being disadvantaged in Renal dialysis if being assessed as private patient.

My humble opinion. Welcome any comments/ insights.

 

[shygal2017]

But we should also choose the best value for money plan.

One of my friends in her very early 20s and in prime health got psychoed by an insurance agent to buy a super premium Plan A. Its not NTUC but the same applies for all companies' Plan As.

I asked her, do you intend to stay in single room aircon ward for a long time? Are you going to have such a delibilating illness at such a young age? She's the type who's easily manipulated and scared into submission. I don't think a person that young should buy a Plan A, its money lost into the drain.

I've studied the Medishield Life booklet and it seems that high income earners get hit the most after the subsidized years are over. Some have to pay twice the premium if I'm not wrong. So Medishield Life is actually going to cost them a bomb over the long run already. If they pay even more for NTUC standard Plan over Plan B, then I think they might as well migrate to Australia where I heard old citizen folks over the age of 65 gets free medication and the Australian drugs there are markedly cheaper than in SG, where prices are marked up so high and then subsidized again to make them look "cheaper".

If one is ok with underwriting by the insurer, by all means choose the best one can afford. But if one already has existing
health issues, then that is not an option.

 

[shygal2017]

I think just downgrade to Plan B1 or even B2 is sufficient.

B1 is already quite "luxurious" for our elderly. And B2 is clearly sufficient for them to recover. My friend who went for a $20,000 heart bypass surgery with other associated medical costs in the end pay only $500 for a Ward B2 and is on NTUC Plan B + Medishield Life. This allows him to save up lots of ammunition for long term fight against the illness. If hes on B1 or A1, I reckon he would have to pay thousands of dollars more.

If Plan A got problems with subsidy, then better avoid.

sorry to hijack this thread.. i have a question with regards to enhanced incomeshield plan.

my dad went for heart surgery, i help him bought the "advantage" plan, meaning can go upto A class in govt hospital.. but in midst of discussion with hospital people. i realize that even though i can go for A class.. they advised me not to because heart surgery require long term medication till death OR very long time..

So, if i opt of A class. yes, most of the cost while he is in hospital are covered. but subsequent return visit, he will no longer be a subsidized patient.. meaning the cost will go up significantly for consultation and medication..

right now, i am in dilemma..
1) should i downgrade my parents plan since they will always opt for the B2 class for subsidize rate
2) in the event that i really choose A class for the surgery, is there a way that my parents can become subsidize patient again for their long term medication care??

 

[qhong61]

hi all,

I'm new to the forum.

My auntie received a letter from NTUC asking her whether she wants to convert her Incomeshield Plan B to Standard Plan or not.

I've helped her gone through the benefits but am confused coz according to the Standard Plan, the surgery benefits have increased but the 90 days pre-post hospitalization benefits have ceased. Also, for example, dialysis treatment has increased to $2750 per mth for standard plan compared to $2500 for Plan B but the drugs claim for dialysis has also been reduced from $600 per month (plan B) to $450 per month (standard plan). These are just some examples I've provided.

Has anyone converted from Plan B to Standard Plan and is it advisable to do so?

Hope to hear from you guys!

Thanks!

So which has ur aunt or u decided? Or should we just opt for medishied life only will do?

 

[C Justice]

But we should also choose the best value for money plan.

One of my friends in her very early 20s and in prime health got psychoed by an insurance agent to buy a super premium Plan A. Its not NTUC but the same applies for all companies' Plan As.

I asked her, do you intend to stay in single room aircon ward for a long time? Are you going to have such a delibilating illness at such a young age? She's the type who's easily manipulated and scared into submission. I don't think a person that young should buy a Plan A, its money lost into the drain.

I've studied the Medishield Life booklet and it seems that high income earners get hit the most after the subsidized years are over. Some have to pay twice the premium if I'm not wrong. So Medishield Life is actually going to cost them a bomb over the long run already. If they pay even more for NTUC standard Plan over Plan B, then I think they might as well migrate to Australia where I heard old citizen folks over the age of 65 gets free medication and the Australian drugs there are markedly cheaper than in SG, where prices are marked up so high and then subsidized again to make them look "cheaper".

Agree to choosing the Best value for money plan. If u look at the "newer" health insurance plan like Standard and Enhanced Income Shield, all have proration factor. In fact proration factor of Std plan is not worse than Enhanced Basic (Restructured hospital for ward class B1 and below) for inpatient hospital treatment. For outpatient hospital treatment, proration factor for Std plan is better than Enhanced Basic and comparable to Enhanced Advantage. Furthermore, Inpatient hospital treatment limits under Std plan is even higher for some category as compared to Income Shield plan A, not to mention plan b.

I am not advocating choosing the best most expensive plan. However, Std plan does give an option of choosing doctor and more comfort if u want. Else B2 is ok too as i personally stay in B2 b4 i find it ok while i am covered under plan A previously and upgrade to Enhanced Advantage last yr.

I find that the As charged portion of my plan is mostly the inpatient including surgery, which i guess is the area where cost expected to go up faster inching more towards the limits of old plan over the longer term.

Tough choice

 

[peaceone]

Agree to choosing the Best value for money plan. If u look at the "newer" health insurance plan like Standard and Enhanced Income Shield, all have proration factor. In fact proration factor of Std plan is not worse than Enhanced Basic (Restructured hospital for ward class B1 and below) for inpatient hospital treatment. For outpatient hospital treatment, proration factor for Std plan is better than Enhanced Basic and comparable to Enhanced Advantage. Furthermore, Inpatient hospital treatment limits under Std plan is even higher for some category as compared to Income Shield plan A, not to mention plan b.

I am not advocating choosing the best most expensive plan. However, Std plan does give an option of choosing doctor and more comfort if u want. Else B2 is ok too as i personally stay in B2 b4 i find it ok while i am covered under plan A previously and upgrade to Enhanced Advantage last yr.

I find that the As charged portion of my plan is mostly the inpatient including surgery, which i guess is the area where cost expected to go up faster inching more towards the limits of old plan over the longer term.

Tough choice

a very tough choice indeed but since it's using cpf medisave and pay only annual premium, I threw towels to the ntuc to enhance my shield and eldershield to primeshield for lifetime payout. Both shields will take care and relief my future health care burden. I heard of many cases of person got stroke and got disabilities, etc. To my surprise, Our minister, Heng also out of sudden got it. Anyway, our cpf maybe cannot touch till the later age65, let it cover for health insurance if one can afford.

I wonder those who think otherwise on the worthiness to enhance on the shield plans, do you insure more on non-cpf meaning using cash monthly payment for other sort of life/accidental/hospitalize/endowment insurances?

Well, I don't buy those and just spend a bit on term insurance for my family and invest the rest cash myself as true cash is with me holding and not cpf as of now

 

[shygal2017]

my aunt is leaning more towards staying with Plan B and not shifting to standard plan as it seems unfair that the standard plan is more ex and yet some of the benefits are lower than Plan B. And NTUC did not provide any reason at all as to why a person should shift to the standard plan. Only some vague wording and a table listing out the differences. That's not professional imo. Also, if the premium increases for standard plan, then there shouldn't be any reduction in benefits compared to plan B at all. It's like a step forward and another step backward. Only the premium is forward in NTUC standard plan as far as I can see.

But would like to hear more comments, opinions and advise before deciding since 31 Jul is the deadline.

And I think medishield Life alone wont be sufficient. Best to have another private shield plan, need not be premium type, just a basic add on will do.

So which has ur aunt or u decided? Or should we just opt for medishied life only will do?

 

[shygal2017]

my aunt has
- accident policy
- term policy
- whole life policy
- limited pay policy (pay 15 years)
- eldershield

now just thinking whether should shift to standard plan or remain as Plan B or not.

I think she should write in to NTUC? and ask what are the benefits if shift to standard plan? coz the letter make no mention of real actual benefits at all nor provide any real life examples and only serve to confuse ppl by increasing benefits and decreasing benefits in some areas, really give ppl and impression of trying to shortchange ppl. Bad management from NTUC insurance. My aunt says she will never consider any other insurance plans from NTUC based on this.

a very tough choice indeed but since it's using cpf medisave and pay only annual premium, I threw towels to the ntuc to enhance my shield and eldershield to primeshield for lifetime payout. Both shields will take care and relief my future health care burden. I heard of many cases of person got stroke and got disabilities, etc. To my surprise, Our minister, Heng also out of sudden got it. Anyway, our cpf maybe cannot touch till the later age65, let it cover for health insurance if one can afford.

I wonder those who think otherwise on the worthiness to enhance on the shield plans, do you insure more on non-cpf meaning using cash monthly payment for other sort of life/accidental/hospitalize/endowment insurances?

Well, I don't buy those and just spend a bit on term insurance for my family and invest the rest cash myself as true cash is with me holding and not cpf as of now

 

[shygal2017]

Coming to think of standard plan, its not as per charged for the surgeries. So premium increase but still not as per charged.

The immunotherapy of S$700 per mth in Plan B is gone as well in the Standard Plan. Anyway, I don't think the S$700 per mth immunotherapy in Plan B will help much, as immunotherapy is very expensive and most probably wont cost S$700 a mth. But I read immunotherapy can mean life and death for certain types of cancer as it is a more advanced form of therapy compared to traditional radio and chemo.

btw, standard plan means 100% subsidy if one stays in Ward B1 and plan B means 100% subsidy if one stays in Ward B2? Or am I wrong?

Agree to choosing the Best value for money plan. If u look at the "newer" health insurance plan like Standard and Enhanced Income Shield, all have proration factor. In fact proration factor of Std plan is not worse than Enhanced Basic (Restructured hospital for ward class B1 and below) for inpatient hospital treatment. For outpatient hospital treatment, proration factor for Std plan is better than Enhanced Basic and comparable to Enhanced Advantage. Furthermore, Inpatient hospital treatment limits under Std plan is even higher for some category as compared to Income Shield plan A, not to mention plan b.

I am not advocating choosing the best most expensive plan. However, Std plan does give an option of choosing doctor and more comfort if u want. Else B2 is ok too as i personally stay in B2 b4 i find it ok while i am covered under plan A previously and upgrade to Enhanced Advantage last yr.

I find that the As charged portion of my plan is mostly the inpatient including surgery, which i guess is the area where cost expected to go up faster inching more towards the limits of old plan over the longer term.

Tough choice

 

[qhong61]

Coming to think of standard plan, its not as per charged for the surgeries. So premium increase but still not as per charged.

The immunotherapy of S$700 per mth in Plan B is gone as well in the Standard Plan. Anyway, I don't think the S$700 per mth immunotherapy in Plan B will help much, as immunotherapy is very expensive and most probably wont cost S$700 a mth. But I read immunotherapy can mean life and death for certain types of cancer as it is a more advanced form of therapy compared to traditional radio and chemo.

btw, standard plan means 100% subsidy if one stays in Ward B1 and plan B means 100% subsidy if one stays in Ward B2? Or am I wrong?

Not 100% subsidy. Depend on riders.

 

[shygal2017]

Assuming no riders at all,

For standard plan, what is the best ward to live in to get the highest subsidy?

For Plan B, what is the best ward to live in to get the highest subsidy?

Not 100% subsidy. Depend on riders.

 

[eauyong]

Endowment wise, it is still a sound plan. Even a good investor may not risk 100% of his cash on hand into investments. A good portion would be saved up minus all the risks. Interest rate wise still better than banks and certain bonds.

Btw, since u are an investor you might want to consider investing your OA account as well.

The endowment is an investment but invested on your behalf by an Insurance Company so the Insurance Company takes a big cut out of any returns.
Typically, an insurance Company will take your money and invest most of it on Bonds such as U.S. Bonds. If the Bonds returns 3% per Annum, you may get half of it and the Insurance Companies keeps the other half.
If they suffer a loss such as the U.S.$ drops too much against the Sing $, both you and the Insurance Company suffers and they may not declare any gains for your endowments that year.

 

[peaceone]

Bro, health insurance is paid with money in medisave acc. This money even aft 65 also cannot draw out, it is only meant for health care use, either u use a huge amt + cold hard cash to pay hospital bills, or u use a bit of it to get hospital insurance and get protected. What you have done is correct.
However, just take note that your money in MA is sustainable to pay the increasing premiums as u age, many ppl just buy and din realize their MA risk depletion (usually older people who may no longer be working or holding high paying job). This is impt since relatively speaking, shield coverage is actually way impt at the golden age than now, no point now spend on most expensive plan but when ur chance of hospitalsation is so high at age 50 u realize u cant afford premiums anymore.

Based on importance of insuramce, personally I find shiels plan is a must due to high medical inflation rate. Also, death coverage if u have dependants, TPD and CI coverage whether you have dependants or not, this money is for urself.

Accident plan is more of a good to have, but not a.need. unless u cannot afford life insurance or shield plan or cannot be insured due to pre-existing conditions.

Endowment wise, it is still a sound plan. Even a good investor may not risk 100% of his cash on hand into investments. A good portion would be saved up minus all the risks. Interest rate wise still better than banks and certain bonds.

Btw, since u are an investor you might want to consider investing your OA account as well.

I always ensure the cpf money to work hard for me and hope my core MA is untouched and it's earned interest is sustainable cover me till old. Through my invest experience on cpf and I believe OA to SA serves with a better safe returned and let it be into the cold storage doing the annual interest% compounding work.

Self invest, I deal only with hard cash.

 

[eauyong]

What you say is true enough. Banks are essentially investing the money we save with them too, if they make 10% they give us back only 0.05% (that is a much bigger cut). Good thing this if they make -10% they still gonna give us 0.05%.

Insurance practice soothing bonus, hence the losses are usually covered by the reserves from the previous good year.

Otherwise, where else would you reccomand saving part of the uninvested monthly cash surplus frm ur income?

On a side note, if u invest in the said bonds urself, if u loose money like your mentioned senerio due to FX rates, u gonna loose ur capital, at lease with endowment, u loose on the interest. Ofcos, if u make profit, u get to keep 100% of it.

It is not possible for Banks to make 10% especially current environment where you have negative rates in certain countries.

These are the Bond rates yesterday:

3 Month 0.31%
6 Month 0.42%
2 Year 0.71%
5 Year 1.12%
10 Year 1.57%
30 Year 2.28%

The CPF is giving a very good deal at the moment 2.5% to around 5%.
EPF is even better at the last payout at 6.40%. All at guaranteed capital.

EPF last 5 years:-
2011
6.00%

2012
6.15%

2013
6.35%

2014
6.75%

2015
6.40%

They are much better than Banks which recently I invested MayBank at 3.9% only for their one-off capital raising. Once in a while, you can get deals.

Hunt around and do not let Insurance Companies take your "lunch".