Question on Pes E9

[NobunagaOda]

asking on behalf, can a Pes E9L9 perm Nsman draw sar21 and go for range and also do POI Ops duty?

lets say if its ordered by OC to do so.

 

[reddevil0728]

Talking about medically or procedurally?

 

[NobunagaOda]

Talking about medically or procedurally?

reason for Pes E is leg injury and medical board downgrade him perm after reviewing all x-rays, mri etc.

by the way it is not just my friend but rather the whole coy's Pes E soldiers to go for range and poi ops.

is it legal for OC to do that?

 

[mgx-alander]

afaik, range only required for PES A to C9L9

PES E dun go for it de.. they technically still need to do duty but usually is duty clerk or smth, to do POI is a first

 

[NWT1978]

afaik, range only required for PES A to C9L9

PES E dun go for it de.. they technically still need to do duty but usually is duty clerk or smth, to do POI is a first

OC want to show them u can do it and be proud of them... till later got problem then maybe worry about it...

 

[reddevil0728]

reason for Pes E is leg injury and medical board downgrade him perm after reviewing all x-rays, mri etc.

by the way it is not just my friend but rather the whole coy's Pes E soldiers to go for range and poi ops.

is it legal for OC to do that?

no not asking what's the reason behind PES E, but rather I'm asking you if your question about whether PES E can go for range or not is from a medical point of view or procedural point of view.

 

[chehjin]

reason for Pes E is leg injury and medical board downgrade him perm after reviewing all x-rays, mri etc.

by the way it is not just my friend but rather the whole coy's Pes E soldiers to go for range and poi ops.

is it legal for OC to do that?

why not?

PES E

Fit for administrative duties only.

Further subdivided into:

PES E1 – Able to participate in simple observance parades and LIFE activities.

PES E9 – Unfit for any forms of physical activities.

PES E grading will be followed by L-Code (Land Deployability Code) as follows:

L9 – Able to bear firearms and protect themselves, others and property. Can be deployed in Combat Support vocations in Main Support Area, and/or Combat Service Support vocations of Brigade HQ and above.

bear firearms means must be able to fire right? else use as club?
but you should be excused run down if its combat range.

POI ops is which kind? patrol kind or sit rover kind?

if your "fren" so upset, then bring up this query up the chain of command.

 

[NobunagaOda]

why not?



bear firearms means must be able to fire right? else use as club?
but you should be excused run down if its combat range.

POI ops is which kind? patrol kind or sit rover kind?

if your "fren" so upset, then bring up this query up the chain of command.

Point is chain of command approve this which in this case is OC. Poi is patrol kind where he carry live rounds with full gear.

Anyway issue resolved after the OC went to consult Camp MO and it was not allowed. Camp MO also personally called my friend and told him he is not allowed to draw arms and need not participate.

My friend will be officially lodging a complaint with Mindef but I kind of doubt there will be any action taken.

 

[mgx-alander]

Point is chain of command approve this which in this case is OC. Poi is patrol kind where he carry live rounds with full gear.

Anyway issue resolved after the OC went to consult Camp MO and it was not allowed. Camp MO also personally called my friend and told him he is not allowed to draw arms and need not participate.

My friend will be officially lodging a complaint with Mindef but I kind of doubt there will be any action taken.

the most the OC lim kopi with CO nia

 

[chehjin]

Point is chain of command approve this which in this case is OC. Poi is patrol kind where he carry live rounds with full gear.

Anyway issue resolved after the OC went to consult Camp MO and it was not allowed. Camp MO also personally called my friend and told him he is not allowed to draw arms and need not participate.

My friend will be officially lodging a complaint with Mindef but I kind of doubt there will be any action taken.

errr....so why still need to officially lodge a complaint? and what action you want mindef to do?

 

[hellfire190]

important for nsmen and officers to know their stuff. wonder if the OC asked the MO before the guys drew arms or after - big difference.

anyway, if in a life-and-death situation, I wonder if the PES E guys would rather bear arms or not?

 

[NobunagaOda]

errr....so why still need to officially lodge a complaint? and what action you want mindef to do?

If its me I would have just let it go since I believe Mindef at most would just give warning as those Pes E did not draw arms but my friend insist on doing so.
Lucky for me I have already MR so I don't have to go through such stuffs.

important for nsmen and officers to know their stuff. wonder if the OC asked the MO before the guys drew arms or after - big difference.

anyway, if in a life-and-death situation, I wonder if the PES E guys would rather bear arms or not?

Should be before as my friend did not participate in the range. I also think such information should be made available so that every soldiers know what can be done and what can't.

 

[reddevil0728]

If its me I would have just let it go since I believe Mindef at most would just give warning as those Pes E did not draw arms but my friend insist on doing so.
Lucky for me I have already MR so I don't have to go through such stuffs.



Should be before as my friend did not participate in the range. I also think such information should be made available so that every soldiers know what can be done and what can't.

There's a judgement recently which says soldiers don't have to obey illegal orders ma...

 

[Calander]

As long there is no reportable accidents, everything is legal to them.

 

[derrickgoh]

The PES thing is contradicting itself.

PES E9 – Unfit for any forms of physical activities. To me that would mean PES E9 can't even form a walking party to STROLL 500 metres during the LIFE program.

Yet the deployability status for L9 says "Able to bear firearms and protect themselves, others and property. Can be deployed in Combat Support vocations in Main Support Area, and/or Combat Service Support vocations of Brigade HQ and above."

If the guy is unfit for ANY forms of physical activities, how can he be deployed in combat support vocations? Combat support vocations include but is not limited to combat medic and signaller. When was the last time PES E9 L9 can be combat medic or signaller?

 

[hellfire190]

MO's interpretation vs commander's interpretation vs man's interpretation. Theoretically have to be same, but very often different due to ignorance or different goals...

 

[mgx-alander]

The PES thing is contradicting itself.

PES E9 – Unfit for any forms of physical activities. To me that would mean PES E9 can't even form a walking party to STROLL 500 metres during the LIFE program.

Yet the deployability status for L9 says "Able to bear firearms and protect themselves, others and property. Can be deployed in Combat Support vocations in Main Support Area, and/or Combat Service Support vocations of Brigade HQ and above."

If the guy is unfit for ANY forms of physical activities, how can he be deployed in combat support vocations? Combat support vocations include but is not limited to combat medic and signaller. When was the last time PES E9 L9 can be combat medic or signaller?

SAF interpretation ish physical activities means running kind..

u can hide one corner and shoot rifle not physical ma

SAF LOGIC lehs

 

[j_t_fusion]

actually hor, the OC also not wrong to get TS to do POI Ops duty.

PES E9 – Unfit for any forms of physical activities.

"physical activities" is really subjected to interpretations, just like "excuse heavy load", so cannot really fault the OC.


but then if you take a look at the description for L9,

L9 – Able to bear firearms and protect themselves, others and property. Can be deployed in Combat Support vocations in Main Support Area, and/or Combat Service Support vocations of Brigade HQ and above.

it clearly states L9 is able to bear firearms to property. isn't that what POI is all about, the protection of property?

 

[chehjin]

without hearing everyone's account, also hard to determine the whole story.

from what I read from OP, your fren is a trouble maker. I'm not saying he should keep quiet, but there are much better ways to handle things than make a fuss and complain to Mindef etc. Lets see who he can complain to when he starts a real job.

From OC point of view, could be injury does not hinder weapons training or doing basic patrol.

From MO's pov, could be better not risk it.

From soldier pov, could be best is go bunk sleep for 2 years. dun do anything.

The thing is, now a days, the younger generations like to ask this ask that, like to challenge the norm. This is in conflict with reginmentation where you obey orders first and question later.

whether it is good or bad. Dunno. But it sure makes the lives of commanders a harder job now a days.