Question regarding admission competitiveness

[CloudJames]

Hi all,
I saw my friend every 'pia' his A-level. Really feel hard pain for him. Like no life like that. Poor thing sia. He is actually a very close friend. I am not saying he sure won't do well. He is trying to go into NTU to get Mathematics and Economics. He say want to be rich by studying actury science or actuarial science? About investment one I think. He say he want be Actuary. I dont know whats that sia. I just tell him if he rich help me grow my money can le. lol Sorry I don't know his dream course name. I ask him, no other options meh? Must NTU ar? He say 'siao. if cannot go in, I rather re-take A-level. do or die bro'. I same class with him so many years liao since sec 1, first time see him study so hard, sacrifice and uninstall his Dota and Skyrim. His O level is okok la. Only Amath, Math and physics A1. The rest is C or D. No B. We took O level same year. But I am quite worried for him. For me I do private diploma leh, easy. He after O level go NS. Then study A level privately. This year he taking A levels exams in Oct.

Anyway, back to main topic. I worried for my bro. GP,Math, Econs and Accounts. He never go JC before so I don't know how well he can handle it. I heard all the horror story of people cannot go in. Must all A. I did a bit of searching la. He send me a PDF. The NTU profile thing.

My question is, how competitive is competitive? Really must all A? The pdf I see got the 10th percentile and 90th percentile. the 10th percentile is BBB/C and 90th percentile means AAA/A. So what does this mean? I only know 10th percentile means you do better than 10%. 90% means you do better than 90%. But 10% of 'what'?
10% of the people applied? or
10% of the people ACCEPTED to the course?
I ask him, he say don't know. He assumed it is 10% of the people applied.

Second question is, I see the mathematics and econs degree it says BBB/C for 10th percentile. The rest ar, all is AAA/A one. or almost there. Am I right to assume the course he choose not as competitive as the rest?

Third question, any advice for my friend. He is study full time at home and work part time. He never go any school to study one. Realistically, you all think he can make it?

Last question, (touch wood), if he fail. (please dont anyhow think I jealous my friend 'zai' want him fail, I just concern and curious) IF IN THE EVENT, he cannot get accepted to NTU, what alternate route can he take to study math and be actuary in Singapore? Economical solution lol. (wtf is actuary sia)

Thank you all!

 

[unicornGun]

Self study or just go work and get $$.

Why so desperate? Retake A level again should be ok?

Well, if he succeeded in AAA/A, please do tell us. I believe it will make a great news.

 

[ScrewThingsUp]

Might be correct might be wrong.. but best to my knowledge...

An actuary is a business professional who analyzes the financial consequences of risk. Actuaries use mathematics, statistics and financial theory to study uncertain future events, especially those of concern to insurance and pension programs. They evaluate the likelihood of those events, design creative ways to reduce the likelihood and decrease the impact of adverse events that actually do occur.

Simply put, they come up with policies.

I.E. If you join any insurance companies... you will come up with policies for the insurance.

 

[Matt Damon]

Your friend, is he private A level or from local JC. Which JC.

Mathematics and Economics, Mathematical Sciences, Economics, these are NTU's choices. While there is no such full degree programme which caters to their field of statistics and actuarial sciences, NTU does offer it as an elective which would compliment it with the degree he wants to take. Perhaps even a straight Bs or ABB/B would give him a fighting chance to get into that course.

On another note, if his choice of career is to be an investment banker (which for starters sake, its called an analyst/consultant since no one becomes an IB just like that instantly), then he would have to consider getting his CFA to be a certified financial analyst first. Being able to analyse a prospectus, assessing a company's portfolio, basics of market making and even the knowledge of underwriting are quintessential skills one must have to break into the banking industry. This is of course, in addition to his stellar grades once/if he enters NTU and makes some very good friends there.

If he doesn't make it to local U, getting a CFA would be the next step in conjunction to a degree that deals with general business, banking and finance.
Of course, as IB itself is a highly esteemed field, basically if your grades in local U are stellar enough, the question of the course won't matter. An Engineering student or Business student can equally vie for such a position though studying Mathematical sciences does give you a better glimpse into how numbers can work in a market.


I must air one important degree of caution.
Tell your friend to consider other careers other than this. DO NOT be fixated with being an IB. It is a highly stressful job. Rewarding yes but you can easily find something out there with a better balance of good pay with a maths degree and leisure. Lets also not forget the fact that the number of fresh graduates that break into IB are far and few between. Unless your a Rhodes scholar/Cambridge/Harvard/Yale/York etc, Companies like Blackrock, Merrill Lynch, Barclays or those other big banks won't hire you unless you are lucky enough to have a friend inside or you have a 5.0.
It is truly a sunset industry with so much more regulation and rules now ever since the economic crisis. Barclays recently announced that its going to axe 19000 jobs worldwide with 7000 or more so coming from its Asian offices germane to the its IB offices.

Look to greener pastures like the ministry sector, consultancy in mid-end bank office
roles or even Mckinsey and Co. Because having a maths degree means having to be good with numbers and more importantly so, the number of options that he should be open to is more than 1.

 

[CloudJames]

Self study or just go work and get $$.

Why so desperate? Retake A level again should be ok?

Well, if he succeeded in AAA/A, please do tell us. I believe it will make a great news.

He work part time evening as telemarketer. He say he wake up morning study till evening go work.

Yea. I think if next year he get result AAA/A and enter NTU ar, I contact TNP interview him haha. Never hear before sia people do private A level study on their own. But he really is study, no entertainment at all.

 

[CloudJames]

Your friend, is he private A level or from local JC. Which JC.

Mathematics and Economics, Mathematical Sciences, Economics, these are NTU's choices. While there is no such full degree programme which caters to their field of statistics and actuarial sciences, NTU does offer it as an elective which would compliment it with the degree he wants to take. Perhaps even a straight Bs or ABB/B would give him a fighting chance to get into that course.

On another note, if his choice of career is to be an investment banker (which for starters sake, its called an analyst/consultant since no one becomes an IB just like that instantly), then he would have to consider getting his CFA to be a certified financial analyst first. Being able to analyse a prospectus, assessing a company's portfolio, basics of market making and even the knowledge of underwriting are quintessential skills one must have to break into the banking industry. This is of course, in addition to his stellar grades once/if he enters NTU and makes some very good friends there.

If he doesn't make it to local U, getting a CFA would be the next step in conjunction to a degree that deals with general business, banking and finance.
Of course, as IB itself is a highly esteemed field, basically if your grades in local U are stellar enough, the question of the course won't matter. An Engineering student or Business student can equally vie for such a position though studying Mathematical sciences does give you a better glimpse into how numbers can work in a market.


I must air one important degree of caution.
Tell your friend to consider other careers other than this. DO NOT be fixated with being an IB. It is a highly stressful job. Rewarding yes but you can easily find something out there with a better balance of good pay with a maths degree and leisure. Lets also not forget the fact that the number of fresh graduates that break into IB are far and few between. Unless your a Rhodes scholar/Cambridge/Harvard/Yale/York etc, Companies like Blackrock, Merrill Lynch, Barclays or those other big banks won't hire you unless you are lucky enough to have a friend inside or you have a 5.0.
It is truly a sunset industry with so much more regulation and rules now ever since the economic crisis. Barclays recently announced that its going to axe 19000 jobs worldwide with 7000 or more so coming from its Asian offices germane to the its IB offices.

Look to greener pastures like the ministry sector, consultancy in mid-end bank office
roles or even Mckinsey and Co. Because having a maths degree means having to be good with numbers and more importantly so, the number of options that he should be open to is more than 1.

Thank you for this advice. I going copy this whatsapp this to him it you don't mind?
He study at home by himself. Wake up study then go work evening.

Waaaah Investment Banker ar? Can I assume an IB means he will be rich? Like, can use his money grow and early retire? Forex? Buy low sell high stocks. lol.

If you don't mind me asking, I am curious, what is it about this job that only the elites can make it through and highly stressful?? Am I right to say, he may be working with huge funds?

 

[Matt Damon]

Thank you for this advice. I going copy this whatsapp this to him it you don't mind?
He study at home by himself. Wake up study then go work evening.

Waaaah Investment Banker ar? Can I assume an IB means he will be rich? Like, can use his money grow and early retire? Forex? Buy low sell high stocks. lol.

If you don't mind me asking, I am curious, what is it about this job that only the elites can make it through and highly stressful?? Am I right to say, he may be working with huge funds?

Wow, your friend is a private candidate for A levels then. It is very tough. I wish you all the best with a touch of a Hail Marys.

I believe that is no real job title that says "Investment Banker". But the job scope of an investment banker can entail a lot of things. One of which is a hedge fund manager. As the title suggest, Hedge funds encompasses a lot of high risk...or rather riskier assets than the normal securities cum commodities that one would normally purchase like an insurance or life saving plan, this would fall under commercial banking anyway not investment banking.. High risk does normally entail high returns. So if your incredibly good with numbers, have a wide client base to tap from as well as being an incredibly good liar, you can sell or market a lot of "attractive products" to the consumers. Even people who study Actuarial science need not become a trader or a banker still, companies pay good money for these "think tanks", for their inputs into a new financial package, on what price they should set this new product based on the statistics of the public.

The most important thing if one is really absolutely sure in getting into the IB world, he must clear his CFAs first and they are not easy. A CFA or even reading online materials can give you the knowledge of stocks and portfolios of publicly listed companies. But having a CFA certificate allows you to HANDLE these stocks(securities/bonds). Hence the concept of IPO's come into play here. One way a banker/trader makes tons of money is by underwriting a company's stock. The trader himself has a good eye that this particular company, which is going to be publicly listed soon. He buys a great deal of stocks (aka lots) from this company at an initial price and takes on the burden of having to sell these stocks to the market/general populace/other companies. The profit to be made here is known as the spread or Bid-Offer spread in which the trader purchases the stocks as a said price and sells them at a higher price.
One can see how this can be truly lucrative especially if the company your working for provides you the financial capital to invest heavily into such riskier assets. The returns can be extremely high. You will be able to purchase millions of dollars of bonds/stocks/securities and handle them as how you deem fit in the market. Hence, a hedge fund manager better know what he is doing. He must be knowledgeable in his field. He must be familiar with current affairs, the market, the regulations, which products are hot on the market now. Normally people who do this kind of work must be elite/smart because they have the proper grooming and educational backgrounds to break relatively easier into this industry then other tom dick and harry. They are aware of the working hours, they are aware of the consequences of bad decisions. Importantly, they have the connections to provide the bread and butter to having a successful portfolio and career.

Just my 2 cents worth. There are many other ways to make money. Your friend should use his time now to plan his career and how is he going to get there. Many other options open out there for a applied science grad anyway.

 

[unicornGun]

Wow, your friend is a private candidate for A levels then. It is very tough. I wish you all the best with a touch of a Hail Marys.

I believe that is no real job title that says "Investment Banker". But the job scope of an investment banker can entail a lot of things. One of which is a hedge fund manager. As the title suggest, Hedge funds encompasses a lot of high risk...or rather riskier assets than the normal securities cum commodities that one would normally purchase like an insurance or life saving plan, this would fall under commercial banking anyway not investment banking.. High risk does normally entail high returns. So if your incredibly good with numbers, have a wide client base to tap from as well as being an incredibly good liar, you can sell or market a lot of "attractive products" to the consumers. Even people who study Actuarial science need not become a trader or a banker still, companies pay good money for these "think tanks", for their inputs into a new financial package, on what price they should set this new product based on the statistics of the public.

The most important thing if one is really absolutely sure in getting into the IB world, he must clear his CFAs first and they are not easy. A CFA or even reading online materials can give you the knowledge of stocks and portfolios of publicly listed companies. But having a CFA certificate allows you to HANDLE these stocks(securities/bonds). Hence the concept of IPO's come into play here. One way a banker/trader makes tons of money is by underwriting a company's stock. The trader himself has a good eye that this particular company, which is going to be publicly listed soon. He buys a great deal of stocks (aka lots) from this company at an initial price and takes on the burden of having to sell these stocks to the market/general populace/other companies. The profit to be made here is known as the spread or Bid-Offer spread in which the trader purchases the stocks as a said price and sells them at a higher price.
One can see how this can be truly lucrative especially if the company your working for provides you the financial capital to invest heavily into such riskier assets. The returns can be extremely high. You will be able to purchase millions of dollars of bonds/stocks/securities and handle them as how you deem fit in the market. Hence, a hedge fund manager better know what he is doing. He must be knowledgeable in his field. He must be familiar with current affairs, the market, the regulations, which products are hot on the market now. Normally people who do this kind of work must be elite/smart because they have the proper grooming and educational backgrounds to break relatively easier into this industry then other tom dick and harry. They are aware of the working hours, they are aware of the consequences of bad decisions. Importantly, they have the connections to provide the bread and butter to having a successful portfolio and career.

Just my 2 cents worth. There are many other ways to make money. Your friend should use his time now to plan his career and how is he going to get there. Many other options open out there for a applied science grad anyway.

I dont see u in Bourne legacy

 

[CloudJames]

Wow, your friend is a private candidate for A levels then. It is very tough. I wish you all the best with a touch of a Hail Marys.

I believe that is no real job title that says "Investment Banker". But the job scope of an investment banker can entail a lot of things. One of which is a hedge fund manager. As the title suggest, Hedge funds encompasses a lot of high risk...or rather riskier assets than the normal securities cum commodities that one would normally purchase like an insurance or life saving plan, this would fall under commercial banking anyway not investment banking.. High risk does normally entail high returns. So if your incredibly good with numbers, have a wide client base to tap from as well as being an incredibly good liar, you can sell or market a lot of "attractive products" to the consumers. Even people who study Actuarial science need not become a trader or a banker still, companies pay good money for these "think tanks", for their inputs into a new financial package, on what price they should set this new product based on the statistics of the public.

The most important thing if one is really absolutely sure in getting into the IB world, he must clear his CFAs first and they are not easy. A CFA or even reading online materials can give you the knowledge of stocks and portfolios of publicly listed companies. But having a CFA certificate allows you to HANDLE these stocks(securities/bonds). Hence the concept of IPO's come into play here. One way a banker/trader makes tons of money is by underwriting a company's stock. The trader himself has a good eye that this particular company, which is going to be publicly listed soon. He buys a great deal of stocks (aka lots) from this company at an initial price and takes on the burden of having to sell these stocks to the market/general populace/other companies. The profit to be made here is known as the spread or Bid-Offer spread in which the trader purchases the stocks as a said price and sells them at a higher price.
One can see how this can be truly lucrative especially if the company your working for provides you the financial capital to invest heavily into such riskier assets. The returns can be extremely high. You will be able to purchase millions of dollars of bonds/stocks/securities and handle them as how you deem fit in the market. Hence, a hedge fund manager better know what he is doing. He must be knowledgeable in his field. He must be familiar with current affairs, the market, the regulations, which products are hot on the market now. Normally people who do this kind of work must be elite/smart because they have the proper grooming and educational backgrounds to break relatively easier into this industry then other tom dick and harry. They are aware of the working hours, they are aware of the consequences of bad decisions. Importantly, they have the connections to provide the bread and butter to having a successful portfolio and career.

Just my 2 cents worth. There are many other ways to make money. Your friend should use his time now to plan his career and how is he going to get there. Many other options open out there for a applied science grad anyway.

Wow. Thank you very much for your advice Matt and the time taken to type the response. I am sure he will appreciate this. He also say very tough. That's why sacrifice so many things.

NO WONDER he keep telling me he go this course can get knowledge to invest and retire early. His goal is want to retire early, so work damn hard now learn invest. Don't need rich, just enough so he can no need work always play Dota. I don't understand what he is talking about. lol.

What other options would you suggest for someone like him? In terms of balanced money and time?

 

[Darkzi0n]

No patient to browse through those wall of text... But I saw some ppl mention investment n cfa all that... Which is not useful for actuary. To be actuary, u need to take actuary exams... It dosnt matter wat course u r in. I know ppl from chem who is an actuary now.

The min requirement is to have a deg n pass a few exams before grad... But the most important factor is to have relevant work/internship experience which are hard to come by. I do heard of story that the president of ntu actuarial club couldn't find an actuarial internship.

The actuarial path is not easy because the vacancy is extremely little. Only very few will manage to squeeze in each year. Competition to get into the industry is steep bcos popularity of the job is outpacing the job demand.

Salary wise, they won't earn as much as investment bankers... But they can definitely earn a very very decent living a few years down the road ( they start low tho)

 

[CloudJames]

No patient to browse through those wall of text... But I saw some ppl mention investment n cfa all that... Which is not useful for actuary. To be actuary, u need to take actuary exams... It dosnt matter wat course u r in. I know ppl from chem who is an actuary now.

The min requirement is to have a deg n pass a few exams before grad... But the most important factor is to have relevant work/internship experience which are hard to come by. I do heard of story that the president of ntu actuarial club couldn't find an actuarial internship.

The actuarial path is not easy because the vacancy is extremely little. Only very few will manage to squeeze in each year. Competition to get into the industry is steep bcos popularity of the job is outpacing the job demand.

Salary wise, they won't earn as much as investment bankers... But they can definitely earn a very very decent living a few years down the road ( they start low tho)

Oh I see. That's cool. Thank you. I don't know what his thinking also la. He say want go to Actuarial Science specialisation so he can learn investment. Learn investment so he can retire before 40. Got so good meh? Study investment can retire at 40? Like that everybody would have go take CFA or Actuary Exam liao lor. lol

 

[Matt Damon]

Wow. Thank you very much for your advice Matt and the time taken to type the response. I am sure he will appreciate this. He also say very tough. That's why sacrifice so many things.

NO WONDER he keep telling me he go this course can get knowledge to invest and retire early. His goal is want to retire early, so work damn hard now learn invest. Don't need rich, just enough so he can no need work always play Dota. I don't understand what he is talking about. lol.

What other options would you suggest for someone like him? In terms of balanced money and time?

How old is your friend and what is his educational background like. In Singapore, it being a knowledge based economy, there is a lot on emphasis on high valued employees aka, more knowledgeable kinds. They are equip with unique skillsets. That being said, engineering is never a dying trait still. Engineers can look at fields like aerospace or oil and gas. Companies like shell, BP, rolls Royce, prat and whitney are all good.
Besides engineers there is also an ubiquitous demand and supply of accountants in Singapore. Standard office job. Work in the big 4 before you have a good portfolio to venture out on your own.
A growing field in Singapore is the software side i.e computer engineering software engineering, computer science. Tech companies are paying top dollars for people that can do complex C++ for big projects like a new user interface for a company, defense architecture, server applications etc.

I guess for your friend, he'll probably follow where most business students would want to go. Banks.
A good work life balance? Well, I am not a business student by trade, going to be an engineer student. But I can tell you that it would be wise to look out for those MA(Management associate programmes) offered by the banks. The kind that puts you on rotation through various departments over a period of a few years before putting you in charge on 1 particular one like HR, Support, Sales, Tech, Marketing. A good way to find out about this programmes is sadly through friends or contacts. Still, it pays to do one's research. Read online forums, find out what graduate programmes do some of these companies offer and see if its good and not some inflated title that's a dead end. Though keep in mind these MA programmes are highly sought after and grades are important.

Not looking at banks? How about marketing. A good company would be Procter & Gamble. Though these jobs don't necessarily pay as high as a successful investment banker but I believe the exposure and knowledge you can gain from these meaningful careers to be highly transferable and rewarding.

No smart person would stay in the same job forever, same goes and especially goes for IB. Do well in the corporate world and maybe some few years and jobs down the line you might just get an interview with McK & Co or BCG afterwhich, its pretty much semi retirement from there on out.

 

[Matt Damon]

Oh and yes, to be an actuary, one does not need to take a CFA. I am guessing there are other competency certificates for that. BUT, to go into IB, you should really have a CFA in your resume and I am guessing that is where most people who do study business in general want to go. Since I saw you mentioned your friend was interested in investments, I assumed with relation to the degree he wants to take, he would be equally interested in IB. Only exception goes if you already have a very large capital with you without and obligations and you are doing free trading, then your basically all on your own and not attached to any bodies or companies in which case, there is no need for a CFA.

 

[CloudJames]

How old is your friend and what is his educational background like. In Singapore, it being a knowledge based economy, there is a lot on emphasis on high valued employees aka, more knowledgeable kinds. They are equip with unique skillsets. That being said, engineering is never a dying trait still. Engineers can look at fields like aerospace or oil and gas. Companies like shell, BP, rolls Royce, prat and whitney are all good.
Besides engineers there is also an ubiquitous demand and supply of accountants in Singapore. Standard office job. Work in the big 4 before you have a good portfolio to venture out on your own.
A growing field in Singapore is the software side i.e computer engineering software engineering, computer science. Tech companies are paying top dollars for people that can do complex C++ for big projects like a new user interface for a company, defense architecture, server applications etc.

I guess for your friend, he'll probably follow where most business students would want to go. Banks.
A good work life balance? Well, I am not a business student by trade, going to be an engineer student. But I can tell you that it would be wise to look out for those MA(Management associate programmes) offered by the banks. The kind that puts you on rotation through various departments over a period of a few years before putting you in charge on 1 particular one like HR, Support, Sales, Tech, Marketing. A good way to find out about this programmes is sadly through friends or contacts. Still, it pays to do one's research. Read online forums, find out what graduate programmes do some of these companies offer and see if its good and not some inflated title that's a dead end. Though keep in mind these MA programmes are highly sought after and grades are important.

Not looking at banks? How about marketing. A good company would be Procter & Gamble. Though these jobs don't necessarily pay as high as a successful investment banker but I believe the exposure and knowledge you can gain from these meaningful careers to be highly transferable and rewarding.

No smart person would stay in the same job forever, same goes and especially goes for IB. Do well in the corporate world and maybe some few years and jobs down the line you might just get an interview with McK & Co or BCG afterwhich, its pretty much semi retirement from there on out.

Hey Matt. I appreciate you taking the time to type. Really appreciate it.

There is a reason why I am so worried for my friend. His highest qualification right now is only O-levels. To me, he is smart la. In our sec school, he used to top the whole express in Mathematics and physics. This two subjects he always 90% one. Never go down. Always go up school hall take trophy one. He got one problem, he is an introvert, and he got communication problems I think. He isn't very social. For me, he same class as me. I always go to him ask him help me with math and physics. He doesn't have much friends. Mainly because of his non-social behaviour. During NS, come home he play Dota. Then call me go out eat supper, he will cry. Just cry and tell me, he say no one to talk to and kena bully at Camp. You can say I am his only friend. I mean I think la. Maybe he got other friends I don't know. He spend most of his time either lepak with me or play dota (before he go for a-levels).

Given his nature, how he want to survive in the business world? Everyone is so social. I scared this path might not be suitable for him. I also don't want to "pour cold water" on him. I believe he can do well. He more 'zai' than I am. That's why he say he want stay home, work, don't want to face people. So he choose the investment path. I don't know what are his passion. Anyway he already paid for the A-levels exam. I hope he do well.

What do you think a kind of career path for a person like him?

Thanks!

 

[Matt Damon]

That could be a real problem. Even for conventional jobs, grades can only get you the interview, but to ace an interview, he needs to be presentable and engaging. More so for jobs pertaining to business, he cannot afford to be "introvert". I guess one way would be to get into NTU and join activities and CCAs. It is important to build a social network there and then.
It would be the ultimate waste if someone had great grades and scored an interview with a premier company but can't converse well during so. Bear in mind job interviews for such esteemed positions usually come with multiple rounds of interviews so it is something everyone has to work on.

Every job out there, for graduates or non graduates demands people to socialise to one extent or another. Don't throw away opportunities just because your too shy or kept. It would be a travesty.

I wish your friend all the best.

 

[Darkzi0n]

If u cannot sell urself to the employer.. No matter how brilliant ur friend may be he also won't get the chance to demonstrate it. N if ur friend is to the extend where ppl find it weird to held a simple conversation, it will be very difficult for him to advance.

Anyway, introvert dosnt necessarily mean cannot tok. They jus dont like to tok too much.

 

[bugmenot45]

might be useful -
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/e...ficial]-everything-about-actuary-4296853.html

 

[IAmZTX]

aiyo.. wall of text. end up is ask qns for yourself only.. yawn~