Regarding Basic Insurance (first policy)

[silentears]

Hi all, pretty new here just wanna get some inputs cause i feel like that this might be over-insured and under-insured at the same time because of the price. Below is the quotation i obtained and i feel like i havn't really asked the correct question to the FA and kinda feel like pressured to sign up soon because birthday is coming up and the premium will increase


31 year old soon, non smoker looking for to cover the basics first, as i have no insurance. Pay about 4k+, 1 dependent (parent)
- Hospital - looking for private (since i am younger now, and i can downgrade later), should i max out the 90% copay or 50% co pay
- Term & or
- Life
- where should i put the early CI + CI
- what is the "formula" for the different amount e.g. 5x annnual income

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/official-bbcwatcher-club.5855578/#post-115139527
i roughly read this and for now what should i go for? because 400+ per mth is quite alot for a pay of 4k+?
then what about disability protection?

https://investmentmoats.com/investment-advice/insurance-philosophy/here it says we should kinda split out CIs + disability ones from the main package

Thanks
- can give me some recommendations on hopsital/term/life? I read that AXA hospital insurance quite affordable?

 

[pencil-leads]

my own personal view:

hospital plan max out. sh*t happens and you dont want to have to worry about hospital bills.

life insurance is buy your own death, ie you die liao your family got money. whole life much more expensive as it contains the little investment portion, which after approx 25 years will so call earn your premiums back. term plan is throw money into drain to get the coverage. with inflation and future value of money, you will do better to spend much lesser on a term plan which gives you more coverage, then the extra money go invest yourself somewhere (such as buying DBS stock and earn 4% dividend yearly, although now DBS too expensive, but you get the idea).

insurance agent will tell you term plan cover you only until 70, but your life plan covers you for life. but honestly by 60 your children also all grow up liao. you ownself also earn and save enough for yourself should you go before your spouse.

in summary, it is a better deal to get a term plan which is much cheaper than life plan, which you can cancel off at about 55 or 60 once your kids hit 21. the extra money saved from not buying life plan go invest elsewhere.

as for critical illness, they are bloody expensive and i do not buy them. this is just pure personal preference, but critical illness plans are marketed such that when you sick, you still get payout during the time when you unable to work. since your hospital insurance already cover your hospital bills, your only worry should be if i no work, where do i get income? for me i rather save up the premium from the critical illness plan and invest in somewhere safe (such as the DBS stock as mentioned), and let it slowly generate a healthy passive income over the years. of course, when i am healthy i also try to build up multiple sources of passive income.

 

[lzydata]

As this is a long and complicated topic, just some brief remarks for now.

Should not conflate "medical" as hospitalisation & surgery together with life insurance and critical illness. These 3 are different. H&S is arguably essential, then life insurance (more so if you have dependants) and then critical illness.

Also have you approached other insurance companies to compare their products? Personally I think NTUC Income has more affordable ones.

 

[reddevil0728]

As this is a long and complicated topic, just some brief remarks for now.

Should not conflate "medical" as hospitalisation & surgery together with life insurance and critical illness. These 3 are different. H&S is arguably essential, then life insurance (more so if you have dependants) and then critical illness.

Also have you approached other insurance companies to compare their products? Personally I think NTUC Income has more affordable ones.

Wouldn’t CI be more important?

 

[lzydata]

Wouldn’t CI be more important?

Life (and TPD) is irreversible while CI is not. And part or even all of the expenses of CI is covered by H&S.

 

[reddevil0728]

Life (and TPD) is irreversible while CI is not. And part or even all of the expenses of CI is covered by H&S.

TPD I get. But for life, technically it’s for your dependants. If no dependants technically don’t need life.

whereas for CI, if you can’t work… (yes that is DII), but for CI, it can be used for self no? Thought CI would be more useful

 

[BBCWatcher]

31 year old soon, non smoker looking for to cover the basics first, as i have no insurance. Pay about 4k+, 1 dependent (parent)
- Hospital - looking for private (since i am younger now, and i can downgrade later), should i max out the 90% copay or 50% co pay

The lowest cost rider is entirely sufficient. Singapore has compulsory medical savings. It's a really strange thing to pay more unrestricted cash to slightly reduce the number of MediSave dollars you might have to use. And that's really what buying the more expensive rider means.

If you'd like the lowest cost Integrated Shield plan that covers private hospital care without a proration factor then that's Raffles Shield A+Raffles Hospital Option+Key Rider. That particular Integrated Shield plan combination covers care (without a proration factor) at Raffles Hospital plus all public restructured hospitals. If you go to any other private hospital then a proration factor applies. I think that's an excellent trade (if you insist on a private hospital plan), although since the annual limit is 6 figures not 7 figures I suggest staying in Raffles Hospital's 4 bedded ward just to keep the room charges down a bit.

- Term & or

What's "or"? Are you asking whether simple term life insurance makes sense? Yes, it does, since you have a dependent. You can get quotes on direct purchase term life insurance at CompareFirst.sg.

- Life
- where should i put the early CI + CI
- what is the "formula" for the different amount e.g. 5x annnual income

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/official-bbcwatcher-club.5855578/#post-115139527
i roughly read this and for now what should i go for? because 400+ per mth is quite alot for a pay of 4k+?
then what about disability protection?

Disability Income Insurance is much higher priority than CI or ECI. Term life insurance answers the question "What happens if I die too early, obviously cannot generate income from work, and my dependent still needs support?" DII answers fundamentally the same question but with only one twist: "What happens if I don't die but I become disabled (even for the rest of my life), cannot generate income from work, and now I'm my own dependent?" VERY important.

In my view after these 3 policies:

• DII
• term life insurance (since you have a dependent)
• public hospital B1 ward Integrated Shield with lowest cost rider

you have money left to burn then you might consider a higher tier Integrated Shield plan, CI, and/or ECI. Personally I wouldn't buy much CI if I were to buy it.

https://investmentmoats.com/investment-advice/insurance-philosophy/here it says we should kinda split out CIs + disability ones from the main package

You can sometimes buy DII as a rider attached to term life insurance. I wouldn't do that unless there's a material premium savings. Just shop around (including CompareFirst.sg) and see what makes the most sense.

The reason is (to be morbid for a moment) that you don't need term life insurance any more if your sole dependent were to die. So there's an advantage to keeping the DII and term life insurance separable, because then you could just stop paying premiums on the term life insurance.

CI is typically much less expensive as a rider attached to term life insurance, so that could make some sense. If you even buy CI.

Thanks
- can give me some recommendations on hopsital/term/life? I read that AXA hospital insurance quite affordable?

If you qualify for the Singlife MINDEF/MHA group term life insurance and group DII rider then check those terms, conditions, and premiums. That group term life insurance coverage is an excellent value. Their DII rider isn't as terrific as other DII policies, but it's affordable, and it'd be better to buy that DII rider than nothing. They also have a CI rider available (if you even buy it).

 

[ctan84]

Hi all, pretty new here just wanna get some inputs cause i feel like that this might be over-insured and under-insured at the same time because of the price. Below is the quotation i obtained and i feel like i havn't really asked the correct question to the FA and kinda feel like pressured to sign up soon because birthday is coming up and the premium will increase


31 year old soon, non smoker looking for to cover the basics first, as i have no insurance. Pay about 4k+, 1 dependent (parent)
- Hospital - looking for private (since i am younger now, and i can downgrade later), should i max out the 90% copay or 50% co pay
- Term & or
- Life
- where should i put the early CI + CI
- what is the "formula" for the different amount e.g. 5x annnual income

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/official-bbcwatcher-club.5855578/#post-115139527
i roughly read this and for now what should i go for? because 400+ per mth is quite alot for a pay of 4k+?
then what about disability protection?

https://investmentmoats.com/investment-advice/insurance-philosophy/here it says we should kinda split out CIs + disability ones from the main package

Thanks
- can give me some recommendations on hopsital/term/life? I read that AXA hospital insurance quite affordable?

1) Hospitalization go for 90% co-pay. Private can be rather pricey; our restructured hospital A ward is pretty good liao.

2) I won't comment on the Term or Life part coz it can be a slippery slope in this forum. For me I use a combination of whole life (legacy plans) and DIY Term to cut out the middleman (agent). How much to cover for life plans depends on your DEPENDENT's needs. Remember, its not to cover your needs. You are already dead, so the only expenditure for dead people is the funeral which I parked a figure of $10k after having to help out in a few funerals in recent yrs.

3) 5X annual income for CI coverage is BS lah. That will only max out the agent's commission nia. If you want to buy CI, a better rule of thumb is 2.5 - 4 yrs EXPENDITURE, not income. CI payout is to cover your expenditure since there's no income. 5 years is really stretching it. I've a few friends and loved ones who kanna CI (not early CI) and on average they rested well, recovered and back to work in about 3 yrs. Most of your medical expenditure will be covered by your hospitalization rider liao anyway.

4) Early CI coverage usually is recommended to be 6-8 months expenditure. Anyway, ECI is a pricey rider and unless you do health checkups often, you might want to rethink if its worth having this coverage.

 

[Okenba]

If you work for gahmen, you might want to check out POGIS. Public Officer Group Insurance Scheme.
If you don't, it may be worth asking HR if your company has any group insurance.

 

[sohguanh]

TPD I get. But for life, technically it’s for your dependants. If no dependants technically don’t need life.

That is why for experienced insurance advisors they will always ask you a few questions first. E.g are you single? Do you intend to marry or remain single forever? After marry do you want to have kids etc etc. All these are inputs to the advisor which best plan they will recommend. Like you say if you got no dependents there is really no need for life. But last time one advisor tell me depends say you go do Army NS die, the life payout can give your surviving parents on top of the saf paid out. So my parents bought for me and this life has now "become profitable" over the premiums I have paid over the years. As if I terminate and surrender now I will get surplus after deduct the premiums I have paid.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Sohguanh, it just doesn't matter if a whole life insurance policy eventually "becomes profitable." A government bond or t-bill will do that. Your bank account will do that. Your CPF balances will do that. And all 3 of these are better protected than a whole life insurance policy is. What matters is whether you have any genuine dependents or not. If you don't, you simply don't need life insurance (insurance that pays a death benefit). Never mind what the sweetest talking insurance salesperson says. It just ain't true.

I really wish even half the energy and emotion put into life insurance (and often mediocre products) were focused on what young adults actually do need whether or not they have dependents: disability income insurance. Because what the heck is the plan if you become disabled and cannot work for the rest of your life? Darned if I know, unless you're extremely wealthy (or the dependent of someone who is). And if you're worried about the National Service death scenario, shouldn't you also be worried about the National Service severe injury/disability scenario?

 

[ctan84]

Sohguanh, it just doesn't matter if a whole life insurance policy eventually "becomes profitable." A government bond or t-bill will do that. Your bank account will do that. Your CPF balances will do that. And all 3 of these are better protected than a whole life insurance policy is. What matters is whether you have any genuine dependents or not. If you don't, you simply don't need life insurance (insurance that pays a death benefit). Never mind what the sweetest talking insurance salesperson says. It just ain't true.

I really wish even half the energy and emotion put into life insurance (and often mediocre products) were focused on what young adults actually do need whether or not they have dependents: disability income insurance. Because what the heck is the plan if you become disabled and cannot work for the rest of your life? Darned if I know, unless you're extremely wealthy (or the dependent of someone who is). And if you're worried about the National Service death scenario, shouldn't you also be worried about the National Service severe injury/disability scenario?

Aiyohhhh Sohguanh's NS era where got disability income insurance? He was enlisted in like early to mid 90s? That era don't even have ILP and endowment plans were new loh. The common thing sold by agent then was whole life plan lah. Need to see the context pls.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Aiyohhhh Sohguanh's NS era where got disability income insurance? He was enlisted in like early to mid 90s? That era don't even have ILP and endowment plans were new loh. The common thing sold by agent then was whole life plan lah. Need to see the context pls.

Great Eastern has been marketing Disability Income Insurance in Singapore since the late 1980s. Earlier iterations were called "PayCare" and later "PaySecure." Now they're "Pay Assure."

John Hancock used to market DII in Singapore under the name "Income Protector," but when Manulife acquired John Hancock in 2003 I think Manulife stopped issuing new Income Protector policies. Existing policies presumably remain in force as long as policyholders keep paying premiums. Minimum entry age was 21, and maximum term is to age 65, so the youngest possible Income Protector policyholder would be about 40 now.

 

[sohguanh]

Sohguanh, it just doesn't matter if a whole life insurance policy eventually "becomes profitable." A government bond or t-bill will do that. Your bank account will do that. Your CPF balances will do that. And all 3 of these are better protected than a whole life insurance policy is. What matters is whether you have any genuine dependents or not. If you don't, you simply don't need life insurance (insurance that pays a death benefit). Never mind what the sweetest talking insurance salesperson says. It just ain't true.

I really wish even half the energy and emotion put into life insurance (and often mediocre products) were focused on what young adults actually do need whether or not they have dependents: disability income insurance. Because what the heck is the plan if you become disabled and cannot work for the rest of your life? Darned if I know, unless you're extremely wealthy (or the dependent of someone who is). And if you're worried about the National Service death scenario, shouldn't you also be worried about the National Service severe injury/disability scenario?

The life plan come with an accident rider but lump sum instead of a monthly pay out. Unfortunately it is not a standalone rider. Also most life come with tpd which is also lump sum payout. Insurance plan change along the years so for me as ctan84 mention is early 90s.

As for your mention Hancock Manulife take over age 21 too late as we enlist at age 18 onwards. 21 already come out of army so cannot buy when we are doing army service

 

[BBCWatcher]

As for your mention Hancock Manulife take over age 21 too late as we enlist at age 18 onwards. 21 already come out of army so cannot buy when we are doing army service

DII requires current employment income to buy. Less than ideal, but there are no perfect insurance policies.

 

[silentears]

so far i have began my in-depth research on the Hospitalisation plans
- why would one take the cheaper rider vs the more expensive rider to reduce the co-pay/deductible

- can I understand if 600k for public hospital (ward A) is sufficient for Annual claim Limit? not sure what is the average bill in the class A ward
- impact of the pre/post coverage
so what I am thinking right now is either Prudential or Great Eastern Private Plans while I am younger, then switch to "A" ward later.

- however i noticed that when i do downgrade to "A" in the future, the maximum coverage for Prudential is only 600k vs Great Eastern 1M
- this is another point why i didn't looked at NTUC Income because at Class A, the coverage is 500k with 100 days pre/post coverage.
Private

Class A

Sauce: https://dollarbureau.com/blog/best-health-insurance-singapore/
https://blog.seedly.sg/singaporean-integrated-shield-plan-comparison/

 

[silentears]

after doing some research i am still kinda lost, pardon me for the poor english/ format

1) Hospitalisation downgrade path
- currently to choose Private + cheapest rider = Prudential
- eventually downgrade to Govt Class A + cheapest rider at age 40/50
- problem = lack of Class B1, however can be mitigated by choosing GE instead, however, GE is too expensive for Private, and Class A is more expensive compared to Prudential Class A
- only at age 82 GE class A will be cheaper (cumulatively) compared to Prudential Class A
- some rough maths GE A = $72k untill age 100 vs Prudential A = $101k untill age 100

Prudential private till hits 50 year old
change to class A GE before 75

2) Disability Income
- GE Pay assure = 75% of salary, assuming 3k, but i am afraid if i changed job will reduce salary, so should i just buy 3k now or the currently salary, else if would i be overpaying? e.g. say i am drawing 5k now.
- problem = 180 days or 90days? agent mentioned that very little ppl claimed before for 180days

3) 1M Term Insurance (standalone) + 100k Multi pay Critical Illness or should i go with
4) 1M Term insurance (rider) + 100k Early CI + 300k CI

-looking at singlife as it is cheaper, not sure if should go via moneyowl
- currently = age 70 Multi CI + age 70 Term (total = $72k) , should i go up to age 75 Multi CI + age 70 term (92k). Is the 20k extra justified for 5 years?
- else should i go for 1M term (rider) + 100K ECI + 300k CI instead? -- but since this will reduce the 1M if i claim, then i should top up to 1.3M right?
- problem = should i buy till 70 or 75? since the age of retirement keeps increasing, 75 seems not too far away? i am concerned with the ability to pay after retirement, say 70 onwards because i wont have any income, so not sure if can pay the premiums afterwards.

5) Accident Plans (necessity? or not? )
- DIY or cheapest available insured up to 100k?
-problem = DIY filling up of forms, not sure if easy to claim or not
- any recommendations?

6) Careshield life (necessity? or not? )
- problem 1 = 2 out of 6 ADL or 3 out of 6 ADL? because 3 out 6 i can stretch to the highest claims of 1.9k
- problem 2 = payment to 99 or 69/67, this will take from medisave, but not sure if i will have enough money inside when i am older say after retirement.

Thanks

 

[OngHuatHuat]

1) Hospitalization go for 90% co-pay. Private can be rather pricey; our restructured hospital A ward is pretty good liao.

2) I won't comment on the Term or Life part coz it can be a slippery slope in this forum. For me I use a combination of whole life (legacy plans) and DIY Term to cut out the middleman (agent). How much to cover for life plans depends on your DEPENDENT's needs. Remember, its not to cover your needs. You are already dead, so the only expenditure for dead people is the funeral which I parked a figure of $10k after having to help out in a few funerals in recent yrs.

3) 5X annual income for CI coverage is BS lah. That will only max out the agent's commission nia. If you want to buy CI, a better rule of thumb is 2.5 - 4 yrs EXPENDITURE, not income. CI payout is to cover your expenditure since there's no income. 5 years is really stretching it. I've a few friends and loved ones who kanna CI (not early CI) and on average they rested well, recovered and back to work in about 3 yrs. Most of your medical expenditure will be covered by your hospitalization rider liao anyway.

4) Early CI coverage usually is recommended to be 6-8 months expenditure. Anyway, ECI is a pricey rider and unless you do health checkups often, you might want to rethink if its worth having this coverage.

Ward class doesn’t change the treatment, it changes where you gonna stay when you are hospitalized only.

 

[OngHuatHuat]

after doing some research i am still kinda lost, pardon me for the poor english/ format

1) Hospitalisation downgrade path
- currently to choose Private + cheapest rider = Prudential
- eventually downgrade to Govt Class A + cheapest rider at age 40/50
- problem = lack of Class B1, however can be mitigated by choosing GE instead, however, GE is too expensive for Private, and Class A is more expensive compared to Prudential Class A
- only at age 82 GE class A will be cheaper (cumulatively) compared to Prudential Class A
- some rough maths GE A = $72k untill age 100 vs Prudential A = $101k untill age 100


2) Disability Income
- GE Pay assure = 75% of salary, assuming 3k, but i am afraid if i changed job will reduce salary, so should i just buy 3k now or the currently salary, else if would i be overpaying? e.g. say i am drawing 5k now.
- problem = 180 days or 90days? agent mentioned that very little ppl claimed before for 180days

3) 1M Term Insurance (standalone) + 100k Multi pay Critical Illness or should i go with
4) 1M Term insurance (rider) + 100k Early CI + 300k CI

-looking at singlife as it is cheaper, not sure if should go via moneyowl
- currently = age 70 Multi CI + age 70 Term (total = $72k) , should i go up to age 75 Multi CI + age 70 term (92k). Is the 20k extra justified for 5 years?
- else should i go for 1M term (rider) + 100K ECI + 300k CI instead? -- but since this will reduce the 1M if i claim, then i should top up to 1.3M right?
- problem = should i buy till 70 or 75? since the age of retirement keeps increasing, 75 seems not too far away? i am concerned with the ability to pay after retirement, say 70 onwards because i wont have any income, so not sure if can pay the premiums afterwards.

5) Accident Plans (necessity? or not? )
- DIY or cheapest available insured up to 100k?
-problem = DIY filling up of forms, not sure if easy to claim or not
- any recommendations?

6) Careshield life (necessity? or not? )
- problem 1 = 2 out of 6 ADL or 3 out of 6 ADL? because 3 out 6 i can stretch to the highest claims of 1.9k
- problem 2 = payment to 99 or 69/67, this will take from medisave, but not sure if i will have enough money inside when i am older say after retirement.

Thanks

prushield plus and prushield plus extra should be good enough.
get a term life 1 M sgd should be sufficient.
If your parents have no integrated shield, priority should be getting medical insurance for them first.

 

[reddevil0728]

after doing some research i am still kinda lost, pardon me for the poor english/ format

1) Hospitalisation downgrade path
- currently to choose Private + cheapest rider = Prudential
- eventually downgrade to Govt Class A + cheapest rider at age 40/50
- problem = lack of Class B1, however can be mitigated by choosing GE instead, however, GE is too expensive for Private, and Class A is more expensive compared to Prudential Class A
- only at age 82 GE class A will be cheaper (cumulatively) compared to Prudential Class A
- some rough maths GE A = $72k untill age 100 vs Prudential A = $101k untill age 100

As much as it’s easier to downgrade than to upgrade, the qns is do you really need private hospital ISP?

if you aren’t the really sick kind that constantly get admitted (of course the argument is you wouldn’t know till that matters) you are essentially subsidising people who keeps going and eat https://www.straitstimes.com/business/invest/do-lobster-meals-add-to-high-hospital-charges

And private premium increase quite crazily

2) Disability Income
- GE Pay assure = 75% of salary, assuming 3k, but i am afraid if i changed job will reduce salary, so should i just buy 3k now or the currently salary, else if would i be overpaying? e.g. say i am drawing 5k now.
- problem = 180 days or 90days? agent mentioned that very little ppl claimed before for 180days

It’s a function of how much savings you have and you can kinda control that.

if you are quite thrifty and save a lot kind, you can afford to delay the activation longer

3) 1M Term Insurance (standalone) + 100k Multi pay Critical Illness or should i go with
4) 1M Term insurance (rider) + 100k Early CI + 300k CI

-looking at singlife as it is cheaper, not sure if should go via moneyowl
- currently = age 70 Multi CI + age 70 Term (total = $72k) , should i go up to age 75 Multi CI + age 70 term (92k). Is the 20k extra justified for 5 years?
- else should i go for 1M term (rider) + 100K ECI + 300k CI instead? -- but since this will reduce the 1M if i claim, then i should top up to 1.3M right?
- problem = should i buy till 70 or 75? since the age of retirement keeps increasing, 75 seems not too far away? i am concerned with the ability to pay after retirement, say 70 onwards because i wont have any income, so not sure if can pay the premiums afterwards.

Technically such plans are for your dependants in the event you cannot financially support them. If you don’t have dependants you don’t really need.

and your qns about cover until what age. If you aren’t going to work at 70/75, then how can anyone be your financial dependant to need this coverage?

5) Accident Plans (necessity? or not? )
- DIY or cheapest available insured up to 100k?
-problem = DIY filling up of forms, not sure if easy to claim or not
- any recommendations?

Good to have not necessary. If really want basic if you qualify for the Singlife mindef mha get that?

6) Careshield life (necessity? or not? )
- problem 1 = 2 out of 6 ADL or 3 out of 6 ADL? because 3 out 6 i can stretch to the highest claims of 1.9k
- problem 2 = payment to 99 or 69/67, this will take from medisave, but not sure if i will have enough money inside when i am older say after retirement.

Thanks

Ideal to have.

2 adls seems more gimmick. If you see the ADLs, if you have 1/2, you will likely to have a 3rd

u should try to drag the payment out for this for as long as possible.

since you dunno if you will claim and how soon you will pass on.