Retirement fund

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
someone told me if you met your 1/2 frs and pledged your property, any excess money in your OA and RA can be withdrawn
Except for Special Account and Retirement Account top-ups, which are added to the Basic Retirement Sum minimum for determining age 55+ withdrawal limits.

Making this sort of decision may not be wise.

but not sure whether its too risky to put excess money into cpf for the higher interest because they can change the rules/limits anytime :o
Please let us know what alternative savings or investment vehicle is NOT subject to possible future government rule changes. (Hint: There isn't one.)
 

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
Hi BBCWatcher,

I am thinking of topping up my wife’s CPF accounts, it is better to use my OA to transfer and then use cash to voluntary contribute the same amount to my own CPF accounts(MA/OA/SA). My main idea is to have some money in my SA since I am above 55. Or is there any other better/efficient way to do it. I have no income in Singapore, so no tax benefits.
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
I am thinking of topping up my wife’s CPF accounts, it is better to use my OA to transfer and then use cash to voluntary contribute the same amount to my own CPF accounts(MA/OA/SA).
I'm not quite following you. What transfer (from which person and account, to which person and account) are you trying to do?

My main idea is to have some money in my SA since I am above 55. Or is there any other better/efficient way to do it. I have no income in Singapore, so no tax benefits.
Has your wife also reached her 55th birthday? Do you and your wife expect to retire in Singapore?
 

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
I'm not quite following you. What transfer (from which person and account, to which person and account) are you trying to do?


Has your wife also reached her 55th birthday? Do you and your wife expect to retire in Singapore?

From my account to hers, she is just below 50. I wish to retire in Singapore.
Currently, I VC to all my 3 accounts. She has almost zero in CPF.

MY own cpf accounts:
MA: 54K
OA: above 300K
RA: 171k
 
Last edited:

JuniorLion

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
8,580
Reaction score
292
From my account to hers, she is just below 50. I wish to retire in Singapore.
Currently, I VC to all my 3 accounts. She has almost zero in CPF.

MY own cpf accounts:
MA: 54K
OA: above 300K
RA: 171k

The first 60k in a person's CPF earns an extra 1.0%. So by transferring from your 60k from your OA to her SA, you will change that 2.5% to 5.0% for her, so it makes sense.
 

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
The first 60k in a person's CPF earns an extra 1.0%. So by transferring from your 60k from your OA to her SA, you will change that 2.5% to 5.0% for her, so it makes sense.

Not sure is there any limit to transfer her SA? Is better to do it on 01Jan2019? or end Dec2018? If I do it in Dec2018, will it affect my OA interest for the year 2018?
 

JuniorLion

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
8,580
Reaction score
292
Not sure is there any limit to transfer her SA? Is better to do it on 01Jan2019? or end Dec2018? If I do it in Dec2018, will it affect my OA interest for the year 2018?

1) You can transfer till the current FRS limit.

2) Interest on CPF accounts are calculated monthly, based on the lowest amount in that month. TL;DR => It won't matter when you transfer; you will always lose out on 1 month of interest.
 

Nofear40

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
142
I understand the question. There’s certainly no forfeiture, and there’s no refund triggered either, assuming you don’t somehow oddly beat interest crediting.

However, the situation you describe is rare. SA interest is running ahead of the rate of FRS increase, so at best you might get once such early January top-up opportunity once in your life.

I have this small window opportunity in this coming Jan. Like what you have mentioned, it is probably going to be the last time till 2021 depending on the new FRS.
 
Last edited:

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
Not sure is there any limit to transfer her SA?
Yes, the Full Retirement Sum. And you should do that -- it makes complete sense.

Is better to do it on 01Jan2019? or end Dec2018?
Yes. ;)

You should transfer the FRS now (December, 2018) then fill any remaining gap to the new 2019 FRS in January, 2019.

If I do it in Dec2018, will it affect my OA interest for the year 2018?
Yes, but she gets one more month of higher interest. SA interest is higher than OA interest, so earlier is better.

As yoongf mentioned, the CPF Annual Limit is, well, annual. If you're going to make an "all three" top-up to either/both your and your wife's accounts, then you need to get that top-up done using CPF Form VC/1 (or electronic equivalent) a few business days before the end of the calendar year. Otherwise the 2018 CPF Annual Limit is unused and never can be used.

The order matters, though, for your wife's accounts. I think I would do it this way for her:

1. OA to SA transfer this month, to zoom her SA up to the 2018 FRS.
2. "All three" top up this month ($37,740).
3. In January, if there's any gap remaining to the new 2019 FRS (probably not), transfer a few more OA dollars into her SA.
4. "All three" top up in January ($37,740), assuming she's not going to have any other CPF contributions, such as compulsory contributions.

You can shove another $37,740 for you this month and $37,740 for you in January, too. So that's up to $150,960 of cash you can stash between the two of you. You won't have much at all land in MediSave, but she'll stock up her MediSave rather nicely.

....Or you can contribute directly into her MediSave Account, but that must fit within the same $37,740 limit. MA earns higher interest than OA, but it's also more restricted (only for qualified medical expenses). But once her MA fills up (reaches the Basic Healthcare Sum), the "piggybank" aspects of CPF work particularly well. Between this month and next month, you could jack your wife's MA all the way up to the 2019 BHS -- you have enough CPF Annual Limit to work with to make that happen. So it'd be like this if you want to do that (assuming her MA is currently $0):

This month: $37,740 into her MA
Next month: $19,460 into her MA, $18,280 "all three" top-up

That combination pushes her MA to $57,200, the Basic Healthcare Sum for 2019, and then pushes her SA even higher (because her SA gets both the MA and SA portions of the "all three" top-up) and starts filling her OA somewhat.

On edit: I think I can improve on this.... For your wife, do this, in this order:

1. Make the "all three" top-up first, this month ($37,740);
2. Transfer her OA to her SA this month;
3. Transfer your OA to her SA, up to the 2018 FRS, this month;
4. Next month, transfer your OA to her SA, up to the new 2019 FRS;
5. Then top up her MA to the Basic Healthcare Sum (or $37,740, whichever is lower);
6. Finally, if there's anything remaining within the 2019 CPF Annual Limit, add an "all three" cash top-up to her accounts.

If you do it that way then I think you leave behind more in your OA (earning 2.5%) and have just as much in her accounts, so that works a little better all around. Check my math, though, please.
 
Last edited:

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
Annual contribution limit is 37,740. Left 30 days to meet 2018 deadline.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/eSvc/Web/Mis...onAllocation/ContributionAllocationCalculator

1) You can transfer till the current FRS limit.

2) Interest on CPF accounts are calculated monthly, based on the lowest amount in that month. TL;DR => It won't matter when you transfer; you will always lose out on 1 month of interest.

Thanks, will do 1 transfer to her CPF SA in Dec18 and one more in Jan19.
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
Thanks, will do 1 transfer to her CPF SA in Dec18 and one more in Jan19.
I think you can do better than that along the lines I described, where her SA ends up above the 2019 FRS and she also ends up with some MA (at least) and maybe also OA. Trying playing with the sequence and see what you can find, and then if you want another opinion (or three), let us know.
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
I should have done it a few years ago!
Yes, absolutely. Always take care of your spouse/partner, and vice versa hopefully. But much better late than never, and you/she have a really great opportunity here.

You should both set CPF nominations, by the way. That becomes much more important when she becomes a wealthier woman, and she will be, shortly.
 

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
I think you can do better than that along the lines I described, where her SA ends up above the 2019 FRS and she also ends up with some MA (at least) and maybe also OA. Trying playing with the sequence and see what you can find, and then if you want another opinion (or three), let us know.

Thanks BBCWatcher,

I am trying to it now through online using OCBC bank as I am currently not in Singapore and won't be back till Feb19.
 

BBCWatcher

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
24,510
Reaction score
5,553
I am trying to it now through online using OCBC bank as I am currently not in Singapore and won't be back till Feb19.
I think you would go direct to CPF for these maneuvers, right?

Another point to make is that you could (also) jack up your own Retirement Account higher, up as high as the Enhanced Retirement Sum (ERS) if you wish. Pushing up to the ERS would increase your CPF LIFE monthly payouts by about 46%. You could use your OA funds to do that, but you could also use cash (or some of both), and thus keep that many more OA dollars parked and earning 2.5%.

If CPF LIFE will be your only consequential lifetime annuity income in retirement, then I'd probably do it.

AND you can also repay any OA funds (plus accrued interest) you used for housing, to go back into your OA where they'll also earn 2.5% and be available on demand, like a weirdly high yielding savings account.

Tons of potential here, especially if you have many Singapore dollars languishing in low interest bank accounts.
 

Tiger9119

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
11
I think you would go direct to CPF for these maneuvers, right?

Another point to make is that you could (also) jack up your own Retirement Account higher, up as high as the Enhanced Retirement Sum (ERS) if you wish. Pushing up to the ERS would increase your CPF LIFE monthly payouts by about 46%. You could use your OA funds to do that, but you could also use cash (or some of both), and thus keep that many more OA dollars parked and earning 2.5%.

If CPF LIFE will be your only consequential lifetime annuity income in retirement, then I'd probably do it.

AND you can also repay any OA funds (plus accrued interest) you used for housing, to go back into your OA where they'll also earn 2.5% and be available on demand, like a weirdly high yielding savings account.

Tons of potential here, especially if you have many Singapore dollars languishing in low interest bank accounts.

Just did the transfer to her SA and it seems the limit is the full FRS. I did a 50K transfer and there is no error from CPF online, so I think the 37,740 limit is for self VC.

We are not using CPF money for housing. And will do a self contribution to my own accounts at the end of this month as there are interest from the bank.
 
Last edited:

doremi_

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2001
Messages
393
Reaction score
6
Thinking of topping up for them to use instead of giving cash. They are retired and above 70, still can get 4%?

Can they withdraw from RA or SA with the deposit? They are under old scheme that full sum can be withdrawn, so cpf is zero now from my understanding.

If your parent is below 55 and has not reached FRS, then yes, any top up to that will reap 4%. But a top-up to his/her account means the money belongs to them and not you, it'll a bit messy to try to get it back from them later. Unless, of course, your intention, is to let them reap the benefits



What product from DBS gives 5% dividend/returns on investment?
 

JuniorLion

Supremacy Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
8,580
Reaction score
292
Thinking of topping up for them to use instead of giving cash. They are retired and above 70, still can get 4%?

Can they withdraw from RA or SA with the deposit? They are under old scheme that full sum can be withdrawn, so cpf is zero now from my understanding.

Will still be able to get 4%.

About the withdrawal portion, I'm not familiar with the RSS so someone else like henrylbl should be able to explain better.
 

SBC

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
19,622
Reaction score
1,224
Thinking of topping up for them to use instead of giving cash. They are retired and above 70, still can get 4%?

Can they withdraw from RA or SA with the deposit? They are under old scheme that full sum can be withdrawn, so cpf is zero now from my understanding.

At least 4% for amount in RA & SA. Plus 1% for amount under 60k.
This is what happened to my father too. My top up to him is earning him 5%.

Can withdraw anytime if under MSS scheme. Min monthly is $297.
Proportionally higher if RA is higher.
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top