Retirement plans

purpleberry

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Not for retirement 35+ years from now, not with simple dollar cost averaging into a low cost/well diversified index fund (and with dividends reinvested), no, I don't think it's very risky.


I don't think an insurance company is going to beat CPF MA/SA with bonus interest and tax relief, no. At 4% interest (past the bonus interest limit) it's more of a contest, but my personal view is CPF still wins that contest overall.

Thanks for your input. Let me digest again on this. If I have 11 more years to fund an overseas education, say in the UK/US, how much do I need to invest at this stage?

Based on this website https://www.greateasternlife.com/sg...-know-what-you-need/child-education-fund.html I may need a total of at least $500k within 11 years.

Starting to think that I cant put 2 objectives in 1 plan. Back to the beginning, this means retirement will be CPF SA and for education, it's either endowmnet for those 11 years or so or perhaps a combination like you proposed above which I know nuts about.
 
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maple96

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Thanks for your input. Let me digest again on this. If I have 11 more years to fund an overseas education, say in the UK/US, how much do I need to invest at this stage?

Based on this website https://www.greateasternlife.com/sg...-know-what-you-need/child-education-fund.html I may need a total of at least $500k within 11 years.

Starting to think that I cant put 2 objectives in 1 plan. Back to the beginning, this means retirement will be CPF SA and for education, it's either endowmnet for those 11 years or so or perhaps a combination like you proposed above which I know nuts about.

Just sharing my own preference, I am risk averse.

CPF Life is mandatory retirement plan for Singaporeans, best interest rate, unless I have it adequately (my own benchmark) funded, I will not look for a private annuity plan to supplement, and not necessary another annuity plan if I have other better sources of income.

It is very simple to estimate and compare the returns from CPF SA vs a private annuity plan. Assuming u dump 50k into SA now, just compound it with 4% pa return till age 55, can the alternative pte annuity plan give u that return (guaranteed) by 55? CPF is risk-free guaranteed return vehicle.

If I need funds at the end of 11 years, I would prefer to put in a low-risk guaranteed capital and preferably guaranteed return vehicle. Investing in the stock market does not give u guaranteed capital and guaranteed return at the end of 11 years. I was lucky to have bought a single premium endowment plan for 11 years with "almost" guaranteed return of more than 4% pa and it matured as promised. But I dun think such is available now, so need to accept a lower return, like I have 2.7%pa for 5 year plan a few years ago. Do your own research.

Good luck.
 
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polyglob

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Thanks for your input. Let me digest again on this. If I have 11 more years to fund an overseas education, say in the UK/US, how much do I need to invest at this stage?

Based on this website https://www.greateasternlife.com/sg...-know-what-you-need/child-education-fund.html I may need a total of at least $500k within 11 years.

I know Sinkie parents who have funded or are now funding their kids' US/UK/AU uni education. Depending on the course taken, >$500k all in, some closer to 1 mil when done. It's not just school fees but all the stuff associated with living alone abroad. I think the GE estimator is understating it. Not surprising since they are trying to sell you a product.

I also know US parents who fund their kids' out of state private uni education. Already $500k for them.

11 years from now expect the number to be much higher. Also the world is changing, NUS and NTU are now well ranked and there are enough foreign brand private universities here if CMI into the public ones.
 

purpleberry

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Just sharing my own preference, I am risk averse.

CPF Life is mandatory retirement plan for Singaporeans, best interest rate, unless I have it adequately (my own benchmark) funded, I will not look for a private annuity plan to supplement, and not necessary another annuity plan if I have other better sources of income.

It is very simple to estimate and compare the returns from CPF SA vs a private annuity plan. Assuming u dump 50k into SA now, just compound it with 4% pa return till age 55, can the alternative pte annuity plan give u that return (guaranteed) by 55? CPF is risk-free guaranteed return vehicle.

If I need funds at the end of 11 years, I would prefer to put in a low-risk guaranteed capital and preferably guaranteed return vehicle. Investing in the stock market does not give u guaranteed capital and guaranteed return at the end of 11 years. I was lucky to have bought a single premium endowment plan for 11 years with "almost" guaranteed return of more than 4% pa and it matured as promised. But I dun think such is available now, so need to accept a lower return, like I have 2.7%pa for 5 year plan a few years ago. Do your own research.

Good luck.

Yes, CPF SA is good for retirement and I will be focusing here instead of insurance products. I am also risk averse and dont really trust things I dont understand fully.

For education, BBC shared https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/articles/5-best-childs-education-savings-plans-in-singapore/. How did you get the guaranteed returns part? Is NTUC Income good enough?
 

purpleberry

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I know Sinkie parents who have funded or are now funding their kids' US/UK/AU uni education. Depending on the course taken, >$500k all in, some closer to 1 mil when done. It's not just school fees but all the stuff associated with living alone abroad. I think the GE estimator is understating it. Not surprising since they are trying to sell you a product.

I also know US parents who fund their kids' out of state private uni education. Already $500k for them.

11 years from now expect the number to be much higher. Also the world is changing, NUS and NTU are now well ranked and there are enough foreign brand private universities here if CMI into the public ones.

I dont mind if he can get into the local uni here but I wouldn't go for the foreign brand private ones. $500k is a rough ballpark but definitely not the limit, especially when the US is charging at ridiculous rates compared to other countries.
 

mummynew

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I dont mind if he can get into the local uni here but I wouldn't go for the foreign brand private ones. $500k is a rough ballpark but definitely not the limit, especially when the US is charging at ridiculous rates compared to other countries.

Unless it is a med degree, other areas of studies are not as costly. My two kids 3-yr UK degrees (science) cost about S$180K each a few years ago (UK living expenses are not as high as I used to think they would be. Actual costs were lower if want to incl the incomes from the part time jobs they held while studying). US degree costs are definitely higher currently.

I share with you a saving endowment that I gifting to my nephew (pay 5 years and maturing on the 12th year) for his university education. Gteed is about 1.65% and if matures with the non-gteed will be best at about 4%. Usually the shorter the tenure, the lower the irr would be (as compared to the recent 'longer life' retirement plans that I bought with a gteed of 2.6% if holding on for 25 years).

Always have to note the big loss if want to surrender it before maturity. The below plan is currently in its 6th year.


https://imgur.com/a/BG7XBDS
 

boredboiboi

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Unless it is a med degree, other areas of studies are not as costly. My two kids 3-yr UK degrees (science) cost about S$180K each a few years ago (UK living expenses are not as high as I used to think they would be. Actual costs were lower if want to incl the incomes from the part time jobs they held while studying). US degree costs are definitely higher currently.

I share with you a saving endowment that I gifting to my nephew (pay 5 years and maturing on the 12th year) for his university education. Gteed is about 1.65% and if matures with the non-gteed will be best at about 4%. Usually the shorter the tenure, the lower the irr would be (as compared to the recent 'longer life' retirement plans that I bought with a gteed of 2.6% if holding on for 25 years).

Always have to note the big loss if want to surrender it before maturity. The below plan is currently in its 6th year.


https://imgur.com/a/BG7XBDS

My wealth plan. Hmmm the guaranteed i look at it, its lower than that. Unless u use simple calculation. But this is 1 of the safe vehicle for the objective. With the guaranteed higher than the current low interest environment.
 

mummynew

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My wealth plan. Hmmm the guaranteed i look at it, its lower than that. Unless u use simple calculation. But this is 1 of the safe vehicle for the objective. With the guaranteed higher than the current low interest environment.


Mind to help me calculate the xirr coz I calculated it as 1.65% for the gteed part?
 
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boredboiboi

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Mind to help me calculate the xirr coz I calculated it as 1.65% for the gteed part?

About 0.8-0.85% p.a for guaranteed portion.
If use accumulation method
Meaning 19924+0.9% and repeat it. The number is about there
 
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yongsaver

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Mind to help me calculate the xirr coz I calculated it as 1.65% for the gteed part?

the numbers are actually right.

but u mentioned this plan 6 years ago one. i think with the recent drop in yield, i am guessing the top end for new plans will most likely be closer to 3%?

anyone recently bought something similar and can share? if rates are decent, dont mind buying for my kids oso.:D
 

mummynew

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the numbers are actually right.

but u mentioned this plan 6 years ago one. i think with the recent drop in yield, i am guessing the top end for new plans will most likely be closer to 3%?

anyone recently bought something similar and can share? if rates are decent, dont mind buying for my kids oso.:D


I read the link BBC shared and the returns actually still look decent enough if they are still available.
 

purpleberry

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Think about whether you would like to have the option of small payouts at significant milestones in your child’s education journey to reward him/her with vacations or gifts, and whether you want these small payouts only closer to the University years (Aviva’s MyEduPlan or Manulife’s Educate) or even earlier (NTUC Income’s Gro Junior Saver ). If you do not need to spend the money, these payouts can always be deposited with the insurer to earn a good interest (around 3%, subject to the insurer’s discretion) and can be withdrawn anytime. Such liquidity is an advantage, but if it is not of paramount importance, you should probably consider Tokio Marine’s Kidstart instead. In return for giving up this liquidity, this plan gives the highest projected return of more than 4% p.a.

From the site. If the above is still valid, it is quite attractive for 11-12 year time frame.
 

boredboiboi

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the numbers are actually right.

but u mentioned this plan 6 years ago one. i think with the recent drop in yield, i am guessing the top end for new plans will most likely be closer to 3%?

anyone recently bought something similar and can share? if rates are decent, dont mind buying for my kids oso.:D

Most plan drop the rate like u mentioned. There are plans that guaranteed captial says year 5 or 10 depending on how you want it to be. Example is the Aviva MyLifeIncome
 

BBCWatcher

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Yes, you have to take that MoneyOwl article with a pinch of salt. Market interest rates are lower, and the guaranteed returns with those educational savings plans are definitely lower. And you really should be focusing on the guaranteed returns. All of them can project fantasies up to the Monetary Authority of Singapore's advertising limits, but they are mere fantasies.

If you're pretty sure that at least one of your children is going to attend a U.S. university, and if you happen to have a trusted family member who is a U.S. citizen or U.S. permanent resident, then there are some options available there. One of them is called a "529 plan," which is a U.S. tax advantaged educational savings plan. Last I checked, California's 529 plan is quite good, assuming you pick the low cost target age fund. But the "best" plan is often the one sponsored by the state where your trusted family member lives due to state tax advantages in addition to the federal ones, unless your family member happens to live in a state without state income tax. A 529 plan is pretty simple, really: you (via your trusted family member) put money in the account -- every calendar quarter for example -- where it's automatically managed to converge on your child's university age, and then it's completely U.S. tax free when you use it to pay for qualified educational expenses. Technically those 529 plan funds belong to your trusted family member, so this family member really needs to be trustworthy. However, since the funds technically no longer belong to you (the parent) or to your child, to the limited extent financial need-based aid is available to international students these 529 plan resources generally won't count against your child in those financial need calculations.

With the same assumption (having a trusted U.S. citizen or U.S. permanent resident family member), Massachusetts offers a prepaid tuition plan called "U.Plan." That's simple, too: deposit funds in the account (via that trusted family member again), and you're buying university tuition at the current sticker price. For example, Wellesley College (Hillary Clinton's alma mater) is listed as US$56,052 for total tuition and fees (but not room, board, and incidentals) in the 2019-2020 academic year, the most recent year that I see listed. (The 2020-2021 academic year just started as I write this.) If you deposit US$5,605.20 (10%), you receive a tuition certificate that's valid for 10% of the cost of one year at Wellesley College whenever your child enrolls, whatever the future (higher) price is. The percentage of tuition and fees at any of the other ~69 colleges and universities on the list in Massachusetts is fixed when you make a deposit, too. As another example, that US$5,605.20 deposit would be good for about 9.56% of one year at Amherst College. You can pay for all 4 years (400%) of Wellesley or Amherst or Boston College in one deposit if you wish.

OK, but what if your child doesn't attend one of the universities or colleges on the U.Plan list? No problem: there's still a fallback, minimum, higher education inflation-based return.

OK, but what if your child gets a full scholarship? No problem, same basic deal: minimum return guaranteed. But please read the terms and conditions carefully for details.

Up until recently I didn't think U.Plan was such a great deal, but now, in the current low market interest rate environment and with ~11 years to go, it's a little more interesting. The list of colleges and universities is pretty good, although Harvard, M.I.T., and oh-so-lovely Williams College aren't on the U.Plan list. Funds could still be used at those institutions, and others in the U.S., based on the fallback inflation-based returns.

I agree with mummynew that many people think it costs more to live in the U.K. as a student than it actually does, but there's a reason for that: London. If you're a student pretty much anywhere outside London, the cost of living can be quite reasonable or even downright cheap. London is an anomaly.

There are some countries, mostly in Europe, that offer tuition free university and college educations to every admitted student. A few of these courses of instruction are conducted in English.

I'd also like to highlight Canada as a potential university destination, for example McGill University in Montreal.

The "sticker prices" at U.S. universities and colleges are breathtakingly high, really. However, most students don't pay the sticker prices, so don't get too scared off. "Shop around" when the time comes. Granted, this was many years ago, but the actual price offers I got at the undergraduate universities where I was accepted ranged from literally zero (free tuition, room, and board for the whole 4 years) to about US$20,000/year all-in as I recall. All of them were at least a little lower than the advertised sticker prices. And it was pretty random. One of the literally zero offers was a compelling offer, actually, and the ~US$20,000/year offer was strangely not (a university that was kind of average).
 
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Mr. Wood

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there have been cases where insurance companies revise to a lower projected yield. Does it affect all in force policies or is it only for new sign ups?
I understand dat non-guaranteed portion are juz dat. non-guaranteed.
personally, i dun mind if it is differs by maybe 0.1%. but what if it at the end of policy term, get 0.5 or 1% lesser?
 

chrisloh65

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Generally affects all.

Always remember this: Buy Term (insurance) and invest the Rest!

And remember this - Don't buy:
- whole-life insurance
- endowment
- investment-linked policies
- annuities
- I would rate ElderShield in this category.


there have been cases where insurance companies revise to a lower projected yield. Does it affect all in force policies or is it only for new sign ups?
I understand dat non-guaranteed portion are juz dat. non-guaranteed.
personally, i dun mind if it is differs by maybe 0.1%. but what if it at the end of policy term, get 0.5 or 1% lesser?
 

purpleberry

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Generally affects all.

Always remember this: Buy Term (insurance) and invest the Rest!

And remember this - Don't buy:
- whole-life insurance
- endowment
- investment-linked policies
- annuities
- I would rate ElderShield in this category.

Those who bought TM endowment 10-15 years ago have received their 4% now if the rumors are correct. But yes, if you buy endowmnet with additional benefits like death, terminal illness, etc. this will definitely affect your overall gain.
 
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