Roboadvisor: Stashaway vs Syfe

cfleee

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
115
Reaction score
7
From the webinars I've seen, Syfe basically just rebalances as many times as necessary if the risk exceeds their risk corridor. Not 100% sure how they determine if the risk exceeds, or what the perceived risk is benchmarked against.

After looking some more at their stuff this seems like it is by design -- overweight riskier assets during less-volatile run-up, then rely on frequent adjustments (based on sustained volatility?) to get out of the riskier assets when it drops. So it will perform especially well during a long run-up, as they like to mention their algos would have brought some portfolios to 100% equity (!!) during a bull run, but overall performance really hinges on how their algo responds during the drawdown. That's what we are seeing now.

It sounds very human in a way :s13: Everything looks good, let's go to 100% equity (or even extra risky but performing very well subsections of equity), then oops market is dropping I'm very scared let's sell equity and buy bonds to prevent portfolio dropping too much.

Interesting. Very different strategy from StashAway which does their medium-term macro kind of thing, even if both talk about constructing portfolios based on value at risk and expected loss in a year kinda thing.
 

zarray

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
147
Reaction score
0
After looking some more at their stuff this seems like it is by design -- overweight riskier assets during less-volatile run-up, then rely on frequent adjustments (based on sustained volatility?) to get out of the riskier assets when it drops. So it will perform especially well during a long run-up, as they like to mention their algos would have brought some portfolios to 100% equity (!!) during a bull run, but overall performance really hinges on how their algo responds during the drawdown. That's what we are seeing now.

It sounds very human in a way :s13: Everything looks good, let's go to 100% equity (or even extra risky but performing very well subsections of equity), then oops market is dropping I'm very scared let's sell equity and buy bonds to prevent portfolio dropping too much.

Interesting. Very different strategy from StashAway which does their medium-term macro kind of thing, even if both talk about constructing portfolios based on value at risk and expected loss in a year kinda thing.

which is why tactical asset allocation is a very interesting subject in itself. It is timing the market even though these firms advocate otherwise.

It is precisely why one shouldn’t bet 100% equities because nobody ever knows when **** hits the fan.
 

Scherzinger

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
48,469
Reaction score
86
Only way to invest in high risk investment on stash is to submit my reports from sgx right
 

s0crates

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
596
Reaction score
56
Think quite worrying some of these robos. Autowealth said that they having been working on SRS since last year, supposed to soft launch cpf and srs in may also. Why say you gonna do it when you have issues delivering zzz



not yet. still "looking into it"
 

Mr. Wood

Arch-Supremacy Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
19,779
Reaction score
1,344
Think quite worrying some of these robos. Autowealth said that they having been working on SRS since last year, supposed to soft launch cpf and srs in may also. Why say you gonna do it when you have issues delivering zzz

mayb not their priority. srs cannot charge high fees i think. cannot charge high fees, robos cannot make money, so dun bother.
invest cash is good enuff for me. of coz if got tax deferment is better. so in the mean time, i just invest in cash for syfe and srs for stashaway.
 

mirage_16

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
With introduction of Syfe REIT+, anyone considering to stick to just Syfe platform for investing in global ETFs+bonds and REIT?

Although Stashaway seems to outperform Syfe for global ETF+bonds, i'm also keen to invest in SG REITS. And it doesn't seem to make sense to pay platform fees for both sites?

Any thoughts on this?
 

Captain89

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
With introduction of Syfe REIT+, anyone considering to stick to just Syfe platform for investing in global ETFs+bonds and REIT?

Although Stashaway seems to outperform Syfe for global ETF+bonds, i'm also keen to invest in SG REITS. And it doesn't seem to make sense to pay platform fees for both sites?

Any thoughts on this?

I invested stashaway for global and syfe for reits. Even if u invest in syfe for both portfolios, u still gonna pay for both fees. Just tt the fees varies.
 

assiak71

Master Member
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
4,567
Reaction score
28
Think quite worrying some of these robos. Autowealth said that they having been working on SRS since last year, supposed to soft launch cpf and srs in may also. Why say you gonna do it when you have issues delivering zzz

Wonder how endowus can be approved so fast. Some possible reasons (which are the differences from other robos):
- unit trust which i guess sg is more familiar with
- sgd-demoninated, and sgd-hedged bonds
- simple static AA
 

jyteo95

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Shopback / Referral

Hi, as Shopback now has upsized cash back of $38 for StashAway signups/first deposit of $500, would like to ask if has anyone tried the following:
1) Signing up using someone's referral for the free 6 months management fee, then clicking through shopback to top up min. $500
2) Signing up through shopback directly, then putting in referral "promo code" to enjoy the free 6 months

Do both of the above work? Saw earlier post that someone suggested (1) but didn't see any confirmation on whether it works. As for (2), saw StashAway's FAQ for referral and it says you must click a referral link to sign up for you to get the free management fees and if this is so then (2) should not work.

Feel that if neither works then signing up through Shopback would be best as $38 is very attractive for people putting small sums (definitely more than 6 months worth of management fees). Any advice would be appreciated :)
 
Last edited:

s0crates

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
596
Reaction score
56
Oh I signed up with Stashaway using simple. $38 cash, almost risk free. 40 days can take out. Good deal!

Don't intend to invest with them using their investment product anyway lol

Hi, as Shopback now has upsized cash back of $38 for StashAway signups/first deposit of $500, would like to ask if has anyone tried the following:
1) Signing up using someone's referral for the free 6 months management fee, then clicking through shopback to top up min. $500
2) Signing up through shopback directly, then putting in referral "promo code" to enjoy the free 6 months

Do both of the above work? Saw earlier post that someone suggested (1) but didn't see any confirmation on whether it works. As for (2), saw StashAway's FAQ for referral and it says you must click a referral link to sign up for you to get the free management fees and if this is so then (2) should not work.

Feel that if neither works then signing up through Shopback would be best as $38 is very attractive for people putting small sums (definitely more than 6 months worth of management fees). Any advice would be appreciated :)
 

mirage_16

Junior Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
I invested stashaway for global and syfe for reits. Even if u invest in syfe for both portfolios, u still gonna pay for both fees. Just tt the fees varies.

yes, you are still paying the %.

But based on the assumption I want to invest equally in Syfe and Stashaway, wouldn't the overall fees still be more if i invested in both instead of only syfe - because Stashaway is charging 0.8%, while Syfe is only charging 0.65%?

I guess the question is, does stashaway's returns justify the higher overall fees?
 

jyteo95

Junior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Oh I signed up with Stashaway using simple. $38 cash, almost risk free. 40 days can take out. Good deal!

Don't intend to invest with them using their investment product anyway lol
Have you gotten the cashback tracked yet after putting in simple?
 

tutonic

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
1,202
Reaction score
9
yes, you are still paying the %.

But based on the assumption I want to invest equally in Syfe and Stashaway, wouldn't the overall fees still be more if i invested in both instead of only syfe - because Stashaway is charging 0.8%, while Syfe is only charging 0.65%?

I guess the question is, does stashaway's returns justify the higher overall fees?

Yes. You'll end up paying more in fees if you invest in both Syfe and stashaway, as compared to just dumping your money in one (since you'll cross certain AUM thresholds quicker and qualify for lower fees). For the few of us, Stashaway's global portfolio is more of our thing, while Syfe REIT portfolio is very attractive, for the local holdings portion of our portfolio. Stashaway no plans on introducing any reit focused local portfolio, so no choice. Need go to Syfe for that.

If you look at Syfe, their global portfolio will invest in lower %, but in wider range of the XL ETFs (xlf xle xlc etc), while stashaway takes a more targeted approach; they only invest in some of the XL ETFs (like xlv xly xlp).

Doesn't mean one strategy is better than the other, but I personally prefer stashaway one. Also, it's without a doubt that the app for stashaway is miles better than Syfe one. Although, that one not really important ah.
 

maxtaykw

Junior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Hi All

Here's a new comparison thread to compare stashaway vs syfe.

A short introduction of the companies:





Experiment Outline
Monthly investment of $100 into each portfolio on every 15th of the month beginning 15th Aug 2019.

- Stashaway Profile 30
- Syfe Profile 25 (Highest Risk)



Will be updating this thread on the performance periodically. Stay Tuned

Investment updates (Stashaway vs Syfe) :
15 Aug 2019 (Invested: $100/acc) : $100.00/$100.00
20 Aug 2019 (Invested: $100/acc) :$101.07/$100.92
23 Aug 2019 (Invested: $100/acc) : $101.13/$102.06
31 Aug 2019 (Invested: $100/acc) : $101.31/$102.29
08 Sep 2019 (Invested: $100/acc) : $102.30/$103.76
16 Sep 2019 (Invested: $200/acc) : $202.62/$204.64
25 Sep 2019 (Invested: $200/acc) : $200.96/$203.20
03 Oct 2019 (Invested: $200/acc) : $197.56/$202.63
07 Oct 2019 (Invested: $200/acc) : $199.71/$199.79
13 Oct 2019 (Invested: $200/acc) : $198.95/$200.31
21 Oct 2019 (Invested: $300/acc) : $300.23/$302.27
28 Oct 2019 (Invested: $300/acc) : $302.48/$305.23
02 Nov 2019 (Invested: $300/acc) : $305.18/$305.07
11 Nov 2019 (Invested: $300/acc) : $305.61/$309.33
20 Nov 2019 (Invested: $400/acc) : $408.59/$410.26
29 Nov 2019 (Invested: $400/acc) : $415.17/$415.27
06 Dec 2019 (Invested: $400/acc) : $410.98/$409.97
20 Dec 2019 (Invested: $500/acc) : $517.71/$518.14
25 Dec 2019 (Invested: $500/acc) : $521.91/$521.07
31 Dec 2019 (Invested: $500/acc) : $523.56/$521.80
19 Jan 2020 (Invested: $600/acc) : $633.68/$628.44
27 Jan 2020 (Invested: $600/acc) : $628.57/$629.19
30 Jan 2020 (Invested: $600/acc) : $628.93/$622.24
11 Feb 2020 (Invested: $600/acc) : $654.91/$643.31
19 Feb 2020 (Invested: $700/acc) : $760.08/$748.50
28 Feb 2020 (Invested: $700/acc) : $689.74/$673.14
11 Mar 2020 (Invested: $700/acc) : $646.12/$637.80
14 Mar 2020 (Invested: $700/acc) : $633.25/$618.36
30 Mar 2020 (Invested: $800/acc) : $714.87/$722.13
07 Apr 2020 (Invested: $800/acc) : $747.18/$735.10
10 Apr 2020 (Invested: $800/acc) : $773.41/$731.32
18 Apr 2020 (Invested: $900/acc) : $899.30/$849.78
23 Apr 2020 (Invested: $900/acc) : $881.90/$846.44
08 May 2020 (Invested: $900/acc) : $894.59/$829.56
21 May 2020 (Invested: $1000/acc) : $1014.44/$928.97
30 May 2020 (Invested: $1000/acc) : $1031.70/$933.84

Thanks for providing this useful comparison that i have been looking for.
I have done up another representation of your data for your reference.

Date Stashaway Syfe
15-Aug-19 : -100 / -100
15-Sep-19 : -100 / -100
15-Oct-19 : -100 / -100
15-Nov-19 : -100 / -100
15-Dec-19 : -100 / -100
15-Jan-20 : -100 / -100
15-Feb-20 : -100 / -100
15-Mar-20 : -100 / -100
15-Apr-20 : -100 / -100
15-May-20 : -100 / -100
30-May-20 : 1031.7 / 933.84

XIRR : 7.76% / -15.36%
 

testingabc

Supremacy Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
9,743
Reaction score
70
Thanks for providing this useful comparison that i have been looking for.
I have done up another representation of your data for your reference.

Date Stashaway Syfe
15-Aug-19 : -100 / -100
15-Sep-19 : -100 / -100
15-Oct-19 : -100 / -100
15-Nov-19 : -100 / -100
15-Dec-19 : -100 / -100
15-Jan-20 : -100 / -100
15-Feb-20 : -100 / -100
15-Mar-20 : -100 / -100
15-Apr-20 : -100 / -100
15-May-20 : -100 / -100
30-May-20 : 1031.7 / 933.84

XIRR : 7.76% / -15.36%

Does this means stashaway better currently? Can i know what is your stashaway profile? Thanks ~
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts.

Please refer to our Terms of Service for more information.
Top