RSS old scheme vs CPF life basic ? CPF Life Basic vs Std/Esc

[kelhot2001]

Then, assuming that i buy an private longevity annuities plan that provide me up to 4k per mth. And the cpf does agree to opt out of cpf life

Can my cpf fund still remain in my OA and SA?
Will they still create an RA?
Can i now do a withdrawal of monthly 1400 like ATm from My CPF?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Then, assuming that i buy an private longevity annuities plan that provide me up to 4k per mth. And the cpf does agree to opt out of cpf life

Can my cpf fund still remain in my OA and SA?

Yes, but this part is the same regardless of whether you obtain a waiver from CPF LIFE or not.

Will they still create an RA?

Yes.

Can i now do a withdrawal of monthly 1400 like ATm from My CPF?

Yes, according to standard withdrawal rules (non-CPF LIFE/non-RSS).

 

[kelhot2001]

Yes, but this part is the same regardless of whether you obtain a waiver from CPF LIFE or not.


Yes.


Yes, according to standard withdrawal rules (non-CPF LIFE/non-RSS).

Thanks for the reply.So I will go with this plan since i prefer old RSS and prefer not to be in CPF life.
If this is feasible, I get an private annuity longevity plan that provide me 4k per month

I do a ERS at 55 years age, then leave the amount at 65 without any withdrawal
And monthly I Just withdraw 1400 out.Meaning at any point of my death, my principal amount will remain at 400k
Because my withdrawal is never more than my interest earn? If event I really need monies, I am still able to do a lump sum withdrawal

Feasible?

 

[maple96]

So confirm in the past one can choose to delay beyond 70?

Thanks for confirming.

Because there is a CPF champion who said a different story.

I thought u were the CPF champion who still insists in living in the past and nobody here bothered to answer your past question?

Today, every RSS member upon reaching 70 years of age and still alive will automatically receive payout, unless they opt out of the scheme

 

[maple96]

Then, assuming that i buy an private longevity annuities plan that provide me up to 4k per mth. And the cpf does agree to opt out of cpf life

Can my cpf fund still remain in my OA and SA?
Will they still create an RA?
Can i now do a withdrawal of monthly 1400 like ATm from My CPF?

All your questions (intention) can be answered with the FAQ from CPF website.


Q Can I be exempted from setting aside a retirement sum in my Retirement Account? What are the conditions for exemption?

Q What should I take note of when applying to be exempted from setting aside a retirement sum in my Retirement Account (RA)?

Q How much monthly payout from my pension or annuity should I be receiving to be fully exempted from setting aside a retirement sum in my Retirement Account?

Q I have received top-ups to my Retirement Account (RA). Can I apply for an exemption from setting aside the Retirement Sum in my RA?

There are alot info there, I need to do a long writeup to answer all your questions, which may not be what u intend to do BBC answered your questions, but those are not your target objectiives if I understand your intentions correctly (which u wrote in a subsequent comment)

 

[maple96]

Thanks for the reply.So I will go with this plan since i prefer old RSS and prefer not to be in CPF life.
If this is feasible, I get an private annuity longevity plan that provide me 4k per month

I do a ERS at 55 years age, then leave the amount at 65 without any withdrawal
And monthly I Just withdraw 1400 out.Meaning at any point of my death, my principal amount will remain at 400k
Because my withdrawal is never more than my interest earn? If event I really need monies, I am still able to do a lump sum withdrawal

Feasible?

Read the FAQ, u might be disappointed But your questions/intention not clear, I read as u want to opt out of CPF Life with your pte annuity?

 

[maple96]

Thanks for the reply.So I will go with this plan since i prefer old RSS and prefer not to be in CPF life.
If this is feasible, I get an private annuity longevity plan that provide me 4k per month

I do a ERS at 55 years age, then leave the amount at 65 without any withdrawal
And monthly I Just withdraw 1400 out.Meaning at any point of my death, my principal amount will remain at 400k
Because my withdrawal is never more than my interest earn? If event I really need monies, I am still able to do a lump sum withdrawal

Feasible?

Q What should I take note of when applying to be exempted from setting aside a retirement sum in my Retirement Account (RA)?
A
Please note the following when applying for exemption:

You must be 55 and above to apply for an exemption.

The use of investment instruments such as endowments and bonds for exemption is not allowed.

You must be in receipt of the monthly payment from your annuity policy/pension which pays you for as long as you live.

If an exemption is granted and you surrender or terminate your annuity policy, the retirement sum withdrawn plus the accrued interest have to be refunded to your Retirement Account (RA).


The annuity policy cannot be pledged for granting you a loan as the Board needs to secure the refund of the retirement sum plus the accrued interest upon termination of the policy.

You must be both the policy holder and the sole insured person of the annuity policy.

You can use multiple annuity policies to seek exemption.

The amount you may withdraw from your RA excludes any monies topped up to your RA under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme and the interest earned on it.

Upon exemption, you will not be eligible to receive top-ups under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme unless you opt to join the CPF LIFE Scheme.

You cannot choose to only withdraw an amount which is lower than the amount payable to you upon exemption.

 

[kelhot2001]

Q What should I take note of when applying to be exempted from setting aside a retirement sum in my Retirement Account (RA)?
A
Please note the following when applying for exemption:

You must be 55 and above to apply for an exemption.

The use of investment instruments such as endowments and bonds for exemption is not allowed.

You must be in receipt of the monthly payment from your annuity policy/pension which pays you for as long as you live.

If an exemption is granted and you surrender or terminate your annuity policy, the retirement sum withdrawn plus the accrued interest have to be refunded to your Retirement Account (RA).


The annuity policy cannot be pledged for granting you a loan as the Board needs to secure the refund of the retirement sum plus the accrued interest upon termination of the policy.

You must be both the policy holder and the sole insured person of the annuity policy.

You can use multiple annuity policies to seek exemption.

The amount you may withdraw from your RA excludes any monies topped up to your RA under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme and the interest earned on it.

Upon exemption, you will not be eligible to receive top-ups under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme unless you opt to join the CPF LIFE Scheme.

You cannot choose to only withdraw an amount which is lower than the amount payable to you upon exemption.

Okok, I will take a look at the part, can you point me the dir3xtion
Seem like my plan not feasible liao

 

[maple96]

Okok, I will take a look at the part, can you point me the dir3xtion
Seem like my plan not feasible liao

Link here :

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme#

 

[kelhot2001]

Link here :

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme#

OKOK, got benchmark from CPF liao, to exempted CPF life at 65 or 70, you need minimum figure below.

Birth Date
Payout Benchmark for
Male Female
Jan 1963 to Dec 1963 $1,417 $1,320
Jan 1964 to Dec 1964 $1,454 $1,354
Jan 1965 to Dec 1965 $1,490 $1,388

Reckon that my time will be at least $1750 per month for life to be exempted

 

[henrylbh]

Read the FAQ, u might be disappointed But your questions/intention not clear, I read as u want to opt out of CPF Life with your pte annuity?

It is indeed discouraging to opt out of CPF Life, but he is willing or intend to leave a big request. So the only point that might matter is 'upon exemption, you will not be eligible to receive top-ups under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme unless you opt to join the CPF LIFE Scheme' and he must exercise it before mandatory payout starts.

 

[kelhot2001]

It is indeed discouraging to opt out of CPF Life, but he is willing or intend to leave a big request. So the only point that might matter is 'upon exemption, you will not be eligible to receive top-ups under the Retirement Sum Topping-Up Scheme unless you opt to join the CPF LIFE Scheme' and he must exercise it before mandatory payout starts.

There is certainly alot of unclear things with I have not got an answer which I would need to clear up

1) At 55 FRS$181,000.00, interest is 4+1+1 which is around 4.3% average
How is it calculate to $264,000.00 at 65 (where I calculated to a figure of $278,000)

2) What is the policy amount at (10-20%) it is pretty ambigious? for Basic withdrawal

3) Is this premium return to us upon death ? Some say yes, some say no?
Anyway, I wrote in to CPF, will expect their answer next week

4) I can defer or keep my CPF till 70 before going to exemption, so still ok

5) What happens after exemption? Again I wrote in for answer, expect it next week

I would if i could still leave the amount in CPF , just that I am doing more like an RSS withdrawal if that permit Assuming, CPF allow me to be exempted from CPF life at age 70, I still top up to ERS at 55, allow the monies to built up, monies still allow in RA after exemption, I withdraw 1600 per month till my RA dried up at age 65. Awaiting for answer

 

[maple96]

There is certainly alot of unclear things with I have not got an answer which I would need to clear up

1) At 55 FRS$181,000.00, interest is 4+1+1 which is around 4.3% average
How is it calculate to $264,000.00 at 65 (where I calculated to a figure of $278,000)

Is about there 278K using the internet calculator.

2) What is the policy amount at (10-20%) it is pretty ambigious? for Basic withdrawal

Per website, amt is dependent on some factors such as age, etc upon joining. If u asked CPF, wait for their replies

3) Is this premium return to us upon death ? Some say yes, some say no?
Anyway, I wrote in to CPF, will expect their answer next week

Unused premium will be returned upon death as clearly stated in website

4) I can defer or keep my CPF till 70 before going to exemption, so still ok

Yes your choice.

5) What happens after exemption? Again I wrote in for answer, expect it next week

I would if i could still leave the amount in CPF , just that I am doing more like an RSS withdrawal if that permit

Per the FAQ and Application form, CPF will refund the RA applicable/allowed (see below for exclusions) exempted amounts to u via cheque/other methods. It will be withdrawn from RA. That's the intention/purpose of applying for exemption from maintaining RA min sum or joining CPF Life.

Assuming, CPF allow me to be exempted from CPF life at age 70, I still top up to ERS at 55, allow the monies to built up, monies still allow in RA after exemption, I withdraw 1600 per month till my RA dried up at age 65. Awaiting for answer

If u topup to ERS at 55 or before u apply for exemption, those topup monies and interest will not be included as amounts applicable/allowed for exemption and cannot be withdrawn as lump sum. So those topup monies+interest will likely remain in RA to be paid out like RSS monies I guess (nothing specific mentioned at website).

See my comments in blue above.

U can wait for CPF replies on above.

If I interprete the FAQ correctly, then your hope to leave the RA monies in RA to earn interest after exemption is obtained via pte annuity/pension scheme is “doomed”, except for topup monies.

 

[kelhot2001]

Anyone with questions can pose here, I dont mind asking, there are too many grey areas in the explaination. One more thing that you actually find unfair

When using the CPF estimator, they take into consideration that women tend to live longer and hence the payout is lower than the man of same birthday and age. In this case, shouldnt you be using life expectancy based man and woman instead of medium of both?

 

[Toni90]

1) Can ask them?
If you have FRS of $181,000 at 55, I calculated that you should have $281,702 at age 65.
Strangely, if you died at age 65, CPF Life Basic Bequest is only =
$260,988-$272,342 (or average of $266,665)!

2) I have same query too! Nobody here could give a definite answer.
Even CPF Life payout and Bequest is a range (not a fixed figure) even if you key in your DOB and RA $ figure, as though giving us the impression that different people can get different $ amount for same DOB and RA $ figure? How can it be right?!

Still don’t dare to ask CPF? Or u don’t have an IC so can not ask?

 

[henrylbh]

1) Can ask them?
If you have FRS of $181,000 at 55, I calculated that you should have $281,702 at age 65.
Strangely, if you died at age 65, CPF Life Basic Bequest is only =
$260,988-$272,342 (or average of $266,665)!

2) I have same query too! Nobody here could give a definite answer.
Even CPF Life payout and Bequest is a range (not a fixed figure) even if you key in your DOB and RA $ figure, as though giving us the impression that different people can get different $ amount for same DOB and RA $ figure? How can it be right?!

My maths may be poor. But using excel the hard way, $181k would accumulate to about $278,730 and not $281,702.

Yes same DOB and RA but DOD?

The bequest of between $260,988 and $272,342 (after 1st payout) is for the age 65. The most significant explanation could be - you mati at 65y 1m or 65y 11m, you expect the same bequest?

 

[kelhot2001]

My maths may be poor. But using excel the hard way, $181k would accumulate to about $278,730 and not $281,702.

Yes same DOB and RA but DOD?

The bequest of between $260,988 and $272,342 (after 1st payout) is for the age 65. The most significant explanation could be - you mati at 65y 1m or 65y 11m, you expect the same bequest?

Another Math problems arise from CPF life for my wife
Basic Plan payout $1273 - $1370 (Man and woman almost the same)
FRS at $181,000 on 55 of age
FRS at $278,000 on 65 of age

Let use $1273 to calculate the payout sum , it will take me to 100 years old to finish my RA (35 years) or based on RSS model (Anyway, what is the difference then?)

https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/investing/annuity-calculator.aspx

I am still scratching my head, how do CPF compute the payout (min and max)? And why are they so reserved in coming the figures at the point of 65 of age, what is the exact amount do we have at 65 years old? And why is the 10-20% difference ( I guess out probably, BRS - 10 %, FRS-15% , ERS-20%)

Hope to get reply in 3 days time but as the above example, anyone with explaination ?

 

[dork32]

Another Math problems arise from CPF life for my wife
Basic Plan payout $1273 - $1370 (Man and woman almost the same)
FRS at $181,000 on 55 of age
FRS at $278,000 on 65 of age

Let use $1273 to calculate the payout sum , it will take me to 100 years old to finish my RA (35 years) or based on RSS model (Anyway, what is the difference then?)

https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/investing/annuity-calculator.aspx

I am still scratching my head, how do CPF compute the payout (min and max)? And why are they so reserved in coming the figures at the point of 65 of age, what is the exact amount do we have at 65 years old? And why is the 10-20% difference ( I guess out probably, BRS - 10 %, FRS-15% , ERS-20%)

Hope to get reply in 3 days time but as the above example, anyone with explaination ?

the spread is due to the difference in expected interest rate.

 

[henrylbh]

Another Math problems arise from CPF life for my wife
Basic Plan payout $1273 - $1370 (Man and woman almost the same)
FRS at $181,000 on 55 of age
FRS at $278,000 on 65 of age

Let use $1273 to calculate the payout sum , it will take me to 100 years old to finish my RA (35 years) or based on RSS model (Anyway, what is the difference then?)

https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/investing/annuity-calculator.aspx

I am still scratching my head, how do CPF compute the payout (min and max)? And why are they so reserved in coming the figures at the point of 65 of age, what is the exact amount do we have at 65 years old? And why is the 10-20% difference ( I guess out probably, BRS - 10 %, FRS-15% , ERS-20%)

Hope to get reply in 3 days time but as the above example, anyone with explaination ?

I guess only. The estimated payout is based on several variables between 55 and 65.

As dork32 pointed out, interest could be the main cause as interest is estimated at between 3.75% and 4.25%. Another factor could be the annuity premium of about 20%. Changes in mortality during the 10 years could also affect the estimated payout. Hence, you can only know the actual payout when you want to commence payout. How can we make them commit a number now?

 

[kelhot2001]

the spread is due to the difference in expected interest rate.

Probably right, I use at 3.75 % and bingo, $264,000.00 at 65