Selling Shares of recently deceased.

[socrates]

My friend's father recently passd away. He has a will and also Singapore shares and US shares. I think once a person dies his CDP account is frozen and all the SIngapore shares cannot be transacted. He is now applying to get a Grant of Probate in order to sell of the shares and was told that to do this there is a charge of $200 for every counter (share). I am not sure I understand or hear him correctly. So that means for a person who says owns Singtel, Keppel, DBS, Starhub, OCBC he would have to come out $1000 just to sell away the shares? How about US shares, is it also frozen or can go ahead and sell ? Appreciate any advice.

 

[zeroX26]

My friend's father recently passd away. He has a will and also Singapore shares and US shares. I think once a person dies his CDP account is frozen and all the SIngapore shares cannot be transacted. He is now applying to get a Grant of Probate in order to sell of the shares and was told that to do this there is a charge of $200 for every counter (share). I am not sure I understand or hear him correctly. So that means for a person who says owns Singtel, Keppel, DBS, Starhub, OCBC he would have to come out $1000 just to sell away the shares? How about US shares, is it also frozen or can go ahead and sell ? Appreciate any advice.

For SG shares what you can do is transfer the shares to the person your friend's dad willed them to. Each transfer is only $10 per counter / company. Then after that, the person can just sell like any normal person at typical brokerage charges since legally he/she owns the shares now. That's what happened with my late mum's Singtel shares.

 

[AndroidComa]

sometimes these leave to lawyers to do better lah
maybe he was so fixed on selling that he did not ask if can transfer to his own account and then once in already then sell?

many a times in situations like these, asking the right questions is very impt

 

[BBCWatcher]

Moreover, it might not make sense for the heir to sell the shares.

The U.S. shares are most probably U.S. estate taxable. Examples might include shares of Apple (AAPL), Microsoft (MSFT), AT&T (T), Alphabet (GOOG), etc. If the total value of the U.S. estate taxable assets exceeds US$60,000 (measured at fair market value on the date of his father's death), he'll need to file IRS Form 706-NA and pay the U.S. estate tax within 9 months of his father's death. I'm assuming his father was not a U.S. person when he died and that your friend is not a U.S. person (and will not become a U.S. person within 9 months of his father's death). If there's any U.S. personhood involved, please advise.

 

[Devilsire]

if amount of assets <$50k, can arrange via PTO route for a small fees of few %, save alot of hassles
https://pto.mlaw.gov.sg/deceased-cpf-estate-monies/information-for-next-of-kin-estate-monies/

i applied PTO for my late-dad just for his CDP, rest of the assets DIY (having access and no Intestate complications)

 

[socrates]

For SG shares what you can do is transfer the shares to the person your friend's dad willed them to. Each transfer is only $10 per counter / company. Then after that, the person can just sell like any normal person at typical brokerage charges since legally he/she owns the shares now. That's what happened with my late mum's Singtel shares.

Thanks that sounds like a good solution and cheaper as well. Can the same be done for US shares? Or If he knows the brokerage and the password that his father used, could he possibly sell the US shares in that way whenever he needs like it?

 

[zeroX26]

Thanks that sounds like a good solution and cheaper as well. Can the same be done for US shares? Or If he knows the brokerage and the password that his father used, could he possibly sell the US shares in that way whenever he needs like it?

No idea for US shares coz its not under CDP. But yes, PERSONALLY lah (not saying legally right or not), I don't see any issue with logging into his late father's brokerage account to sell the US shares.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Even leaving aside important legal and ethical questions, there could be avoidable brokerage commissions in selling shares.

What’s the rush? Go through the processes. Settle affairs properly to reduce or eliminate the chance of problems later.

 

[Lè Crayons]

For those with elderly parents, good to do the share transfer when your parents are still around. My parents did that and transferred all their shares to me. Need to produce birth certificate to prove relationship.

 

[zeroX26]

For those with elderly parents, good to do the share transfer when your parents are still around. My parents did that and transferred all their shares to me. Need to produce birth certificate to prove relationship.

Did you have to bring them down all the way to CDP for this? 13 yrs ago when I did for my late mum I had to go down all the way there siah..

 

[socrates]

Yes my friend is taking his time and considering various options. Does not need the money urgently. Thanks for the advice.

 

[socrates]

For those with elderly parents, good to do the share transfer when your parents are still around. My parents did that and transferred all their shares to me. Need to produce birth certificate to prove relationship.

How do you do the share transfer? Must go down to CDP or through broker etc?

 

[Lè Crayons]

Did you have to bring them down all the way to CDP for this? 13 yrs ago when I did for my late mum I had to go down all the way there siah..

How do you do the share transfer? Must go down to CDP or through broker etc?

I did this 8 years ago. We went to the SGX at MetroPolis to sign the forms, got the counter lady to verify relationship and I paid for the transfer fees. They told us the transfer would take about one week at most to be effective.

I just checked SGX website and saw a form online. Seems now can mail the form to SGX which is more convenient. But my boomer parents no matter what will still prefer to go down personally to ask questions and to have peace of mind before they do the transfer.

https://api2.sgx.com/sites/default/files/2023-11/8. Request for Transfer of Securities 01112023.pdf

My parents are now in their 80s. I am their only child so they do not want me to go through a lot of administrative or probate matters after they pass on. They try to do what they can to lessen the burden of probate matters as I am all alone.

 

[henrylbh]

if amount of assets <$50k, can arrange via PTO route for a small fees of few %, save alot of hassles
https://pto.mlaw.gov.sg/deceased-cpf-estate-monies/information-for-next-of-kin-estate-monies/

i applied PTO for my late-dad just for his CDP, rest of the assets DIY (having access and no Intestate complications)

What talking you? He already said that the deceased has a will.

 

[henrylbh]

Thanks that sounds like a good solution and cheaper as well. Can the same be done for US shares? Or If he knows the brokerage and the password that his father used, could he possibly sell the US shares in that way whenever he needs like it?

For Sg shares , the executor got to go CDP with the probate and supporting doc to get the shares transferred to the executor as trustee and then the executor decides whether to dispose the shares or transfer them to the beneficiary/ies. Same for shares held in CPF. For foreign shares, God help you. If can has access to the deceased trading account, dispose the shares and transfer proceed to the deceased Sg bank account. For unlisted shares, go to the company secretary to transfer the shares to the executor or depending on how the secretary wants to help.

 

[henrylbh]

For those with elderly parents, good to do the share transfer when your parents are still around. My parents did that and transferred all their shares to me. Need to produce birth certificate to prove relationship.

There is no need to prove relationship as share transferor can choose to transfer shares to anyone he likes.

 

[henrylbh]

How do you do the share transfer? Must go down to CDP or through broker etc?

Go CDP with the probate and shares will be transferred to the executor as trustee on payment of $10 per counter and executor can then transfer the shares to beneficiary's CDP account or open a trading account to dispose the shares in the market. It simpler to dispose the shares if there are more than one beneficiary.

 

[henrylbh]

I did this 8 years ago. We went to the SGX at MetroPolis to sign the forms, got the counter lady to verify relationship and I paid for the transfer fees. They told us the transfer would take about one week at most to be effective.

I just checked SGX website and saw a form online. Seems now can mail the form to SGX which is more convenient. But my boomer parents no matter what will still prefer to go down personally to ask questions and to have peace of mind before they do the transfer.

https://api2.sgx.com/sites/default/files/2023-11/8. Request for Transfer of Securities 01112023.pdf

My parents are now in their 80s. I am their only child so they do not want me to go through a lot of administrative or probate matters after they pass on. They try to do what they can to lessen the burden of probate matters as I am all alone.

If you wish to avoid the problem, get parents to change the holding to joint holding including trading accounts.

 

[henrylbh]

Those who hold foreign assets, make sure you or your beneficiary knows how to deal with the assets and taxes if any. Otherwise, avoid holding foreign assets even if there is a will. Many already finding it a hassle to deal with deceased's assets held locally, what more of foreign assets that require additional documents that need to meet foreign statutory requirements and tax laws. I only have 2 bank accounts in Malaysia and I let my beneficiary know my atm pin number and whether i keep my atm card. My beneficiary is told to atm out every possible cent and abandon the accounts. But for real estate or the likes, the executor will face uphill tasks and cost of engaging a cross border lawyer to help.

 

[socrates]

If you wish to avoid the problem, get parents to change the holding to joint holding including trading accounts.

Thanks for all your good suggestion. I guess this is the form

https://api2.sgx.com/sites/default/files/2023-11/1. Apply for Joint Securities Account 27102023.pdf

Looking at the form, so if my father wants to add me into his account then he is the main applicant and then I am the joint applicant am I right? Am I also right that my own individual account will still remain as it is?