Selling Shares of recently deceased.

[henrylbh]

My father had some shares in CDP in sole name and some shares in joint name with me. I went through the CDP statement of shares holding. The shares were negligible in value. I went to see CDP with the Letter of Administration etc and because of the hassle and cost of transferring the shares, I decided to forget about all the shares worth less than $1,000 including counters that were suspended, though one of the counters is giving annual dividend of $12. The dividend went straight into my father's posb account in joint name with me and till date, I have yet to close the joint account. Both CDP and POSB are not aware that my father has died 5 years since 2018.

Even CDP shares held in joint names, I could not trade as I failed to open a joint trading account. Stupid remiser never told me to open one and now I can't open one as my father is not around.

 

[henrylbh]

Thanks for all your good suggestion. I guess this is the form

https://api2.sgx.com/sites/default/files/2023-11/1. Apply for Joint Securities Account 27102023.pdf

Looking at the form, so if my father wants to add me into his account then he is the main applicant and then I am the joint applicant am I right? Am I also right that my own individual account will still remain as it is?

Go to the broking firm to change and for advice, if the persons are around.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Those who hold foreign assets, make sure you or your beneficiary knows how to deal with the assets and taxes if any.

Sure, but I think the rest of your post is too strongly worded. Some jurisdictions and custodians are amazingly efficient, more efficient than above average comparable Singapore experiences.

Fairly recently I sold some real property in another country. It was astonishingly easy, much easier than the equivalent transaction would be here.

Don’t assume Singapore has a monopoly on financial and transactional convenience. That’s most definitely not true.

If you’re concerned that a survivor may need immediate help then there are some basic things you should do now:

• Equip that survivor with his/her own, independent emergency financial means. A bank account with a couple months of household expenses, a debit card, and SSBs to handle a few more months is an excellent combination.
• Create and periodically update a list of assets. Store that list someplace safe where survivors can find it. The government recently introduced digital services for exactly this purpose. Simply finding a deceased or incapacitated person’s assets is the hard part. The rest is usually quite easy. Include brief comments about how you think the assets should be handled, for example any tax-related matters. (Example: “This asset is U.S. estate taxable and requires filing IRS Form 706-NA and paying U.S. estate tax within 9 months of my death.”)
• Have a will, advance medical directive, child guardianship instructions, and other documents that guide your survivors should you become incapacitated. (I would add that you really should sign up for full organ donation, not just the statutory minimum.)

 

[snoopyeo]

Hi, I just finished verification call with CDP. I wanted to just sell all the shares but they said need set up estate account or transfer to my account and get a broker to sell off the shares. Problem is there are a lot of odd lots in there. Does anyone know of any broker who offers good rates for estate account or odd lots?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Does anyone know of any broker who offers good rates for estate account or odd lots?

FSMOne is probably competitive. But bear in mind heirs have absolutely no obligation to sell inherited assets. Heirs can keep legally inherited assets in their CDP accounts as long as they wish.

 

[zi]

There is no need to prove relationship as share transferor can choose to transfer shares to anyone he likes.

i believe all transfer are much controlled after fujian and scam incidents

 

[snoopyeo]

FSMOne is probably competitive. But bear in mind heirs have absolutely no obligation to sell inherited assets. Heirs can keep legally inherited assets in their CDP accounts as long as they wish.

I contacted FSMOne but the customer service says they do not have estate account opening. I feedback that it is quite funny for them to advertise estate planning services but not offer estate account opening. That fellow says he's afraid that's management decision.

Any other recommendation? I'm looking to sell off because I need to split the proceeds with my family. So no wish to hold.

 

[lzydata]

I contacted FSMOne but the customer service says they do not have estate account opening. I feedback that it is quite funny for them to advertise estate planning services but not offer estate account opening. That fellow says he's afraid that's management decision.

Any other recommendation? I'm looking to sell off because I need to split the proceeds with my family. So no wish to hold.

You can transfer to your CDP account first and then sell them via FSMOne because their fees are $8.80++ for selling from CDP accounts, cheaper than other brokers. But also check if those odd lots are suspended counters that you can't sell off anyway. Those you won't need to transfer.

 

[snoopyeo]

You can transfer to your CDP account first and then sell them via FSMOne because their fees are $8.80++ for selling from CDP accounts, cheaper than other brokers. But also check if those odd lots are suspended counters that you can't sell off anyway. Those you won't need to transfer.

Thanks, a lot. This was what I did eventually after exploring a few avenues. For the benefit of others, these were the channels I tried:

1) Estate account with brokerages: Phillip Securities quoted me $40 per trade. Told me was market practice. Too expensive. No go.
2) Transfer to my SCB online equities trading account: Went down to the branch, submitted the share transfer forms, grant of probate, etc. After a week, got message from SCB operations telling me one part of the share transfer form had to be filled by CDP. I emailed CDP, they said SCB should fill that part. I gave up.
3) As above.
- Transferred the shares which had value to my CDP account (S$10.90 per security per transfer). I did not transfer one counter which was worth only around $6. The CDP rep said I could not leave it in the estate account and said that the estate account would be closed after 6 months. I told her this was not my understanding and I would not pay $10.90 to transfer something which was worth just $6. She asked what I intended to do with the shares, I told her I would wait for delisting or some other corporate action unless CDP was willing to waive the transfer fee. She had no choice but to leave the shares in the estate account since I did not agree to transfer them.
- Linked my FSMOne account to my CDP account.
- Sold the odd lots through the phone. The process was easy. Called the number and got connected rather quickly. The lady advised the prices for the odd lot market. Some of the odd lot prices were a bit lower than the board lot prices, but since the difference was just a few cents in total, I was OK and she helped to place the orders. They charged just one commission even though some trades were broken into board and odd lots when selling. I found their service good.
- If FSMOne had option for estate account, it would have saved me $10.90 for each counter, but so far, they seemed to be the best option in terms of fees, ease of use, and customer service.

It's already very sad to lose someone you love and respect dearly, but reality has no intention of making life any easier for those left behind...

 

[vsvs24]

Hi, I just finished verification call with CDP. I wanted to just sell all the shares but they said need set up estate account or transfer to my account and get a broker to sell off the shares. Problem is there are a lot of odd lots in there. Does anyone know of any broker who offers good rates for estate account or odd lots?

Trying to understand the process.

So you are the executor of the estate. The shares can be transferred to your own CDP account (at a fee) even though the will indicates that it is to be distributed to a few people ?

So CDP won't insist it must go into Estate account ?

Btw, if go to Estate account, will CDP still charge the fees for transfer to estate account ?

 

[snoopyeo]

Trying to understand the process.

So you are the executor of the estate. The shares can be transferred to your own CDP account (at a fee) even though the will indicates that it is to be distributed to a few people ?

So CDP won't insist it must go into Estate account ?

Btw, if go to Estate account, will CDP still charge the fees for transfer to estate account ?

First off all, after you inform CDP, they will turn the existing account into a deceased account (estate account). This process is free of charge.

I was the executor of the will and I confirmed with all the beneficiaries in the will that they were agreeable to sell off at prevailing prices and distribute the proceeds as cash. I then tried to find ways to sell off the shares as described in my previous post. For my case, CDP allowed me to transfer all the shares to my own CDP account even though the will indicated that the assets should be distributed to a few people. During the recorded interview, I told the CDP rep that the intention was to transfer over, sell off, and distribute the proceeds accordingly, which was what I did.

CDP also allows to transfer the shares to multiple parties' CDP accounts in different proportions, but I do not know whether they will charge one fee for the transfer of each security, or charge separate fees for each destination account. Given that some of the beneficiaries did not have CDP accounts, and that selling individually would have incurred higher brokerage fees due to minimum charges, it was a lot more efficient to just transfer over to one person's account and sell off since everyone was agreeable.

 

[vsvs24]

First off all, after you inform CDP, they will turn the existing account into a deceased account (estate account). This process is free of charge.

I was the executor of the will and I confirmed with all the beneficiaries in the will that they were agreeable to sell off at prevailing prices and distribute the proceeds as cash. I then tried to find ways to sell off the shares as described in my previous post. For my case, CDP allowed me to transfer all the shares to my own CDP account even though the will indicated that the assets should be distributed to a few people. During the recorded interview, I told the CDP rep that the intention was to transfer over, sell off, and distribute the proceeds accordingly, which was what I did.

CDP also allows to transfer the shares to multiple parties' CDP accounts in different proportions, but I do not know whether they will charge one fee for the transfer of each security, or charge separate fees for each destination account. Given that some of the beneficiaries did not have CDP accounts, and that selling individually would have incurred higher brokerage fees due to minimum charges, it was a lot more efficient to just transfer over to one person's account and sell off since everyone was agreeable.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[sohguanh]

First off all, after you inform CDP, they will turn the existing account into a deceased account (estate account). This process is free of charge.

I was the executor of the will and I confirmed with all the beneficiaries in the will that they were agreeable to sell off at prevailing prices and distribute the proceeds as cash. I then tried to find ways to sell off the shares as described in my previous post. For my case, CDP allowed me to transfer all the shares to my own CDP account even though the will indicated that the assets should be distributed to a few people. During the recorded interview, I told the CDP rep that the intention was to transfer over, sell off, and distribute the proceeds accordingly, which was what I did.

CDP also allows to transfer the shares to multiple parties' CDP accounts in different proportions, but I do not know whether they will charge one fee for the transfer of each security, or charge separate fees for each destination account. Given that some of the beneficiaries did not have CDP accounts, and that selling individually would have incurred higher brokerage fees due to minimum charges, it was a lot more efficient to just transfer over to one person's account and sell off since everyone was agreeable.

I would like to know you go through this long drawn out process becuz the total number of shares sold off hold substantial monies correct? Like you say one counter $6 only so no point doing. So end of the day it is about how much monies to gain to be distributed among everyone that determine how one want to go a long process to do such tedious to and fro.

So lesson to ppl who predict going to die soon is to die a pauper then surviving ppl no headache logical?

 

[reddevil0728]

I would like to know you go through this long drawn out process becuz the total number of shares sold off hold substantial monies correct? Like you say one counter $6 only so no point doing. So end of the day it is about how much monies to gain to be distributed among everyone that determine how one want to go a long process to do such tedious to and fro.

So lesson to ppl who predict going to die soon is to die a pauper then surviving ppl no headache logical?

I would suggest for you to restrain yourself from contributing to such discussion if you are unable to control your emotions with regard to how you feel about your own family.

Because your line of reasoning has been repeated again and again and is meaningless.

What you said doesn't make sense at all, i.e., ILLOGICAL.

Whether one dies a pauper or wealthy, the surviving people can have EITHER headache or no headache.

Died wealthy = Fight = Headache
Died wealthy = Choose not to fight or don't bother about the money = No Headache

Died pauper = don't need money = no headache
Died pauper = but need money = headache

So your hypothesis that die a pauper will have no headache is proven to be illogical

 

[lzydata]

Legal documents no longer needed for small claims on a deceased’s CDP assets

The change means relatives of those who die intestate and have assets of S$5,000 or less need not run up legal costs

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...nger-needed-small-claims-deceaseds-cdp-assets

Not sure what this means for all the costs like transferring stocks.

 

[zi]

Legal documents no longer needed for small claims on a deceased’s CDP assets

The change means relatives of those who die intestate and have assets of S$5,000 or less need not run up legal costs

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...nger-needed-small-claims-deceaseds-cdp-assets

Not sure what this means for all the costs like transferring stocks.

perhaps this is mainly for singtel shares which was allocated to everyone then？

 

[60Remajust]

if the CDP so little and family thinks asset don't justify letter of admin/probate then might as well let public trustee settle everything?

 

[vsvs24]

perhaps this is mainly for singtel shares which was allocated to everyone then？

Singtel shares handled by CPF Board. Not in CDP unless specially requested

 

[reddevil0728]

perhaps this is mainly for singtel shares which was allocated to everyone then？

Everyone got allocated by default? Or still need to apply then?

 

[zi]

Singtel shares handled by CPF Board. Not in CDP unless specially requested

yes. my bad