Sharing: experience with RMs

[akdwivedi]

I had RMs with a big global bank for some 15 years now. first, they assign me a new RM every 2-3 years as the RMs churn quite regularly. Second except for one RM, who was very savvy, most RMs were regularly advising me to switch funds, sometimes even if the fund was doing well and expected to do well. Result was that while from NAV perspective all my funds were better than what I invested, I still lost due to constant switching of funds.

The movement in funds is slow and they dont appreciate like stocks, so in a year, I got 2-3% NAV appreciation, but lost 5% due to fund switching fee..

I still have a RM and I gave her a goal that I do not want to track my funds from NAV perspective but from $$ invested and ROI on that $$ invested. I also asked her to stop recommending ILPs, endowment funds etc. After that I receive fewer calls from her and I am now catching up to manage investments myself.

Though I must say that a local bank has just assigned a RM to me and he seems to be much better. but it is still too early to assess.

 

[wahkao3]

most RMs were regularly advising me to switch funds, sometimes even if the fund was doing well and expected to do well..

when funds doing well, they say the profit has already ran its course and time to switch
when funds not doing well they will say time to abandon ship and switch fund

 

[edmund77]

i beg to differ.
i believe there are low risk high reward opportunities out there. the problem is you need to work hard, do your own research to find those free lunch. that's how investing is truely done.

in investment, you only invest into low risk high return opportunities. It stupid to invest into high risk high return. or low risk low return, or worse, high risk low return.

just sitting there, relying on hot tips will not work

Better risk adjusted returns such as Sharpe ratio and Treynor ratio, yes. Low risk, high return products? Never heard of it

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[wahkao3]

Low risk, high return products? Never heard of it
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that's because they are really rare. and you need to work hard to find them.

if you never heard of them, you havent done your homework

 

[xxxjhxxx]

I had RMs with a big global bank for some 15 years now. first, they assign me a new RM every 2-3 years as the RMs churn quite regularly. Second except for one RM, who was very savvy, most RMs were regularly advising me to switch funds, sometimes even if the fund was doing well and expected to do well. Result was that while from NAV perspective all my funds were better than what I invested, I still lost due to constant switching of funds.

The movement in funds is slow and they dont appreciate like stocks, so in a year, I got 2-3% NAV appreciation, but lost 5% due to fund switching fee..

I still have a RM and I gave her a goal that I do not want to track my funds from NAV perspective but from $$ invested and ROI on that $$ invested. I also asked her to stop recommending ILPs, endowment funds etc. After that I receive fewer calls from her and I am now catching up to manage investments myself.

Though I must say that a local bank has just assigned a RM to me and he seems to be much better. but it is still too early to assess.

I think as a whole, my issue is most of the RMs out there are not savvy enough. I dont really care abt the service (eg. Whether they send u angbao packets or birthday card) but they should at the very least be knowledgeable enough to handle the client's request on financial stuff. If basic things like filling up form for account opening also can make mistakes then dun expext us the client to listen to the RM's recommendations.

If the RM dunno he shld go check n confirm before telling the client this or that

 

[Bigoya]

That's right. Once you signed. Their job end. Never believe any promised as their job also short term. Either they make good result and move on or cannot make quota and finally quit.

For insurance product. If you must have one. I guess best way is go insurance company directly. Hardly able to find those RM is good in it as they are not full time. Also my advice is not to look at those non protected column. That's MAS requirement. Company hardly make it anywhere near it now a day.

Thank you for sharing the same perspective as me.

RMs only chiong for daily quota, never hit must OT. Their main target day in day out is to sell as much as possible, doesn't matter if the plan benefits you or not. 2 of my cousins have left the banks even though they earn good money from selling products, the guilt is torturing them.

Albeit earning a fixed basic salary, the basic pay comes at a cost of quota hitting and failing to meet means loosing one's job. An insurance agent on the other hand have more time available for you as low sales does not means he'd have to leave his job, question is, is he just blindly chasing comms?

While they have been called RMs, what relationships are they even managing?

 

[Bigoya]

I think as a whole, my issue is most of the RMs out there are not savvy enough. I dont really care abt the service (eg. Whether they send u angbao packets or birthday card) but they should at the very least be knowledgeable enough to handle the client's request on financial stuff. If basic things like filling up form for account opening also can make mistakes then dun expext us the client to listen to the RM's recommendations.

If the RM dunno he shld go check n confirm before telling the client this or that

I'm not sure of the academic qualifications required to become a RM, but insurance agent wise, anyone above the age of 21 with a Degree in whatever field can become an insurance agent. I was from the life science industry.

Considering this, will everyone in the finance industry be financially savvy?
In addition, if they are in the job just to sell and sell for premium targets, would they sell you lousy products with high premiums, or useful products which usually cost a whole lot lesser? Even if they are savvy, they have strong vested interest that conflicts with yours.

And as a sales representative, everyone is brainwashed that as long as they buy their clients' meals, give angbao, birthday cake, mooncake etc, they are doing well in building rapport with their clients and this would strengthen customer's loyalty. But the truth is, this isn't what a savvy client would be expecting as a basic service, these are the just the whipped cream on top of the Chocolate Chip Crème Frappuccino.

 

[cybercom8]

They sell u insurance plans like ILP issit?
If yes, you can forget about making money short term. Long term also cannot guarantee.
RMs albeit not insurance agents, their sole purpose is to get sales, sales and sales! No time to manage your portfolio.

i wanted specific elns...they claimed will monitor and track for me but we all know how that turned out

if only can find just one reliable rm...i would have continued to buy such elns regularly and they would have regular business from me

 

[cybercom8]

I'm not sure of the academic qualifications required to become a RM, but insurance agent wise, anyone above the age of 21 with a Degree in whatever field can become an insurance agent. I was from the life science industry.

i know of insurance agents who do not even have a degree...some who do well just have poly certs or possibly less

guess you don't need to have a degree to do well in mlms

 

[dkgamer]

Better risk adjusted returns such as Sharpe ratio and Treynor ratio, yes. Low risk, high return products? Never heard of it

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Lol this is so textbook. If people have low risk high return, who will want to share. Common sense right.

 

[Bigoya]

i wanted specific elns...they claimed will monitor and track for me but we all know how that turned out

if only can find just one reliable rm...i would have continued to buy such elns regularly and they would have regular business from me

ELNs are low cost investment products. Low cost means lower contribution to hitting their target tier. If their main job scope is to hit target and your purchase(s) do not make their job any easier, it is likely they won't be bothered much. Their sole intention of selling you the 1st product was probably for the potential relationship built for future upselling.

i know of insurance agents who do not even have a degree...some who do well just have poly certs or possibly less

guess you don't need to have a degree to do well in mlms

That sure sounded a tad offensive, but well, you're not wrong.

 

[Majestic12]

ELNs are low cost investment products? Clearly you've never been a banker.

ELNs are low cost investment products. Low cost means lower contribution to hitting their target tier. If their main job scope is to hit target and your purchase(s) do not make their job any easier, it is likely they won't be bothered much. Their sole intention of selling you the 1st product was probably for the potential relationship built for future upselling.



That sure sounded a tad offensive, but well, you're not wrong.

 

[vince123123]

good lesson learnt. I always record all dealings in writing or if not feasible, record the telephone conversations. It is very important to keep evidence so you can prove what you say. You may be right, but if you cannot prove what you say, it is as good as being wrong.

back to TS topic on sharing experience with RM. Mine is a very very bad experience (made me lose $)

RM from SCB few years back. Here goes the story:

First of all, i went to him knowing exactly what i want (since a fren has done it with another RM), told him the type of product i am interested in. First bad experience - account opening took 3-4 weeks when he promised maximum of 2 weeks.

nvm.. next i wanted to transfer in some securities A, B and C to use as collateral for loan. he verified the securities and said ok. After i transferred in, he said A cannot be used as collateral. i was like wtf.

And so i sold it off.. guess what.. i happen to know that the bank actually allowed my securities to be used as loan. At this point, i wrote an email to the branch manager to complain but as usual, nothing came out of it.

Worst still.. before the loan was processed, he happily told me that if i need to sell off my securities, i can do so even if it is being used as a collateral.

No surprises for guessing what happened next.. i couldnt sell off when i need to. And when i managed to sell off i made a huge loss. Total loss was opportunity cost from the delays + monetary loss. i thought of complaining but did not in the end coz i got no hard proof of what the RM said to me

i am still with SCB, only for the some of the products they offer. And because of this bad experience, i am never buying anything from my current or future SCB RM (this RM which i am talking abt has since left SCB).

This experience also made me more skeptical of whatever promises they say. Now, when i buy products or whatever and the RM promise certain things, i will email them to confirm. (serve as a record in case anything goes wrong)

 

[cybercom8]

ELNs are low cost investment products. Low cost means lower contribution to hitting their target tier. If their main job scope is to hit target and your purchase(s) do not make their job any easier, it is likely they won't be bothered much. Their sole intention of selling you the 1st product was probably for the potential relationship built for future upselling.



That sure sounded a tad offensive, but well, you're not wrong.

ELNs low cost? crap, then why is it minimum US$50k-100k per shot?

purcahses are very easy, they just get the specialist to call you to confirm the purchase over the phone so if i were them, heck, i will sell anyone as much elns as they like

sorry if i offended you on the degree reqt of insurance folks

 

[edmund77]

that's because they are really rare. and you need to work hard to find them.

if you never heard of them, you havent done your homework

Means they are not regulated products or sold by financial institutions

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[Bigoya]

ELNs are low cost investment products? Clearly you've never been a banker.

Is there something wrrong about not being a banker?

ELNs low cost? crap, then why is it minimum US$50k-100k per shot?

purcahses are very easy, they just get the specialist to call you to confirm the purchase over the phone so if i were them, heck, i will sell anyone as much elns as they like

sorry if i offended you on the degree reqt of insurance folks

Honestly I haven't heard about ELNs untill you mentioned it yesterday. Did some googling and what I found is really low cost.

"You do not have to pay any brokerage charges, clearing fees, or GST on the purchase of the underlying shares. You only have to pay the costs (if any) incurred for the delivery of the underlying shares.
No upfront fees payable/charged"

How many percent of this $50k - $100k are used to buy into the asset and how much of it goes to cost? I think a high minimal sum required to purchase doesn't necessarily have to translate into high cost, and by cost I was referring to expenses like fees and charges, not the price of the product.

 

[elnewbie]

FYI, the commissions these RMs make from ELN is really a lot.

Is there something wrrong about not being a banker?




Honestly I haven't heard about ELNs untill you mentioned it yesterday. Did some googling and what I found is really low cost.

"You do not have to pay any brokerage charges, clearing fees, or GST on the purchase of the underlying shares. You only have to pay the costs (if any) incurred for the delivery of the underlying shares.
No upfront fees payable/charged"

How many percent of this $50k - $100k are used to buy into the asset and how much of it goes to cost? I think a high minimal sum required to purchase doesn't necessarily have to translate into high cost, and by cost I was referring to expenses like fees and charges, not the price of the product.

 

[Bigoya]

FYI, the commissions these RMs make from ELN is really a lot.

Mind sharing the commission structure?

 

[wahkao3]

Lol this is so textbook. If people have low risk high return, who will want to share. Common sense right.

i got share ah....

 

[cybercom8]

Is there something wrrong about not being a banker?




Honestly I haven't heard about ELNs untill you mentioned it yesterday. Did some googling and what I found is really low cost.

"You do not have to pay any brokerage charges, clearing fees, or GST on the purchase of the underlying shares. You only have to pay the costs (if any) incurred for the delivery of the underlying shares.
No upfront fees payable/charged"

How many percent of this $50k - $100k are used to buy into the asset and how much of it goes to cost? I think a high minimal sum required to purchase doesn't necessarily have to translate into high cost, and by cost I was referring to expenses like fees and charges, not the price of the product.

think elns is one of the most profitable product for the banks as they hedged your bets but i am not a savvy person so maybe can ask your bankers to explain more about elns to you.