Should we invest our CPF?

firepathlion

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Hi guys,

Since the CPF Board allow us to use our CPF to invest in government-approved investing vehicles, I was thinking whether we should. I see the money sitting in the account and get to itch to put it to better use, so I took some time to consider the options available and what you can do with the CPF to determine whether it is a good idea and when I should start.

I've wrote up my findings in my blog but have copy pasted it here for you to read. I'd like to know your thoughts on whether this makes sense. Thanks!

If you want to read the actual post on the blog where there's an additional table, you can check it here (just add HTTPS in front): firepathlion.com/10-commandments-before-investing-cpf-money/

Cheers!

-----

CPF on FIRE: The 10 Commandments you must follow before investing your CPF money

After the analysis I’ve been doing on the STI ETF and the findings that came from that analysis, it’s been making me wonder if we should be investing our CPF OA monies in the STI ETF for the better returns.

If you’re not yet aware, as part of the CPF Investment Scheme (CPFIS), the Singapore Government allows CPF members to invest their CPF Ordinary Account (OA) and Special Account (SA) monies into a set of government-approved investment vehicles instead of leaving it in the account to earn the risk-free interest. Two of those approved vehicles are the SPDR STI ETF and the Nikko AM STI ETF, so you can choose either to invest in, but should you?

Since the STI ETF has demonstrate such high returns over the last 11 years, for both DCA and Lump Sum, it’s easy to see why it might be attractive to forego the guaranteed-but-small returns of the CPF OA and instead park it into the STI instead.

However, there are many things you need to consider before jumping to invest your hard-earned CPF money as there are other things you can use it for. Plus, risk-free returns is nothing to sneeze at. So when should you consider investing your CPF? Does it ever make sense?

After a bit of thinking and looking through all the options, I found that there are 10 conditions that you must meet before thinking about investing the CPF money, I even have the clickbaity title to go with it. So as you go through these conditions, check to see if you meet the criteria.

Here are the 10 Commandments you must meet before you consider investing your CPF money:

Commandment #1: Thou shall be more than 18 years old
The first conditions are simple, you are not allowed to invest your CPF money using the CPFIS until you are older than 18 years old. Only start looking at investing the CPF money after you turn 19.

Commandment #2: Thou shall have more than S$20,000 in your CPF OA
Another condition to qualify for CPFIS, you are only able to invest CPF OA money that is above the first S$20,000. If you have yet to reach this level of CPF OA balance, forget about investing it.

Commandment #3: Thou shall have reached the Full Retirement Sum in your CPF SA
The last condition to qualify for CPFIS is the amount in your CPF SA. The minimum amount required in your CPF SA is any amount above S$40,000, however you have to also be mindful of the Full Retirement Sum. Previously, I wrote about how to optimally handle your CPF LIFE with the conclusion that in order to make full use of the CPF LIFE, you should try to reach the Full Retirement Sum as quickly as possible to enjoy the benefits of the payout when you reach the age of 65.

So if you haven’t already reached your Full Retirement Sum in your CPF SA, you have no reason to be considering investing your CPF money.

Commandment #4: Thou shall only invest your CPF OA monies
Although you are allowed to invest both your CPF OA and SA, the money in the CPF SA earns a much higher risk-free return (4%) than CPF OA does (2.5%) - for amounts past the bonus interest. You should be taking full advantage of that before starting any investment.

If you are following these commandments exactly, then you’d be trying to get to the Full Retirement Sum as per commandment #3. After that, any money that would have gone into the CPF SA will be diverted to the CPF OA, which gives a much lower interest. That can potentially justify you investing the money instead in an attempt to earn a higher return.

Commandment #5: Thou shall not need the CPF money for housing
For the amounts of money within your CPF OA, you are allowed to use this money to purchase a home. The several uses in this regard are:
  1. Pay for the down payment on the property.
  2. Pay for the monthly instalment of the mortgage on the property.
If you have a plan to purchase a home or getting a mortgage to purchase a property, you should make use of the CPF money for this purpose first or else you will end up having to fork over money from outside your CPF to pay for your down payment and mortgage instalment.

There’s really no point to try to invest your CPF money but you end up having to use cash to pay for a mortgage. Only start investing your CPF if you already have your mortgages and down payment covered by your CPF.

Commandment #6: Thou shall not need the CPF money for education
Aside from housing you can also make use of CPF to pay for education expenses for yourself, your spouse, children or siblings with the CPF Education Scheme. Although it is a loan and you must pay back the principle plus the interest after you graduate, with the bank’s prime rate hovering between 5.2% and 5.4% in the last 10 years (and this is as low as it’s ever been), the 2.5% interest rate of the CPF OA is a steal.

So if you or your spouse and children are looking to further your studies, you should use your CPF OA monies for that first before looking to investing it.

Commandment #7: Thou shall not need to top up your parents or spouse’s CPF SA
In addition to topping up your own CPF SA to earn higher interest rate and reach the Full Retirement Sum faster, you are also able to use your CPF OA to topup the CPF SA of your parents or spouse to help them build up their Retirement Sum. As their CPF SA also receive the higher 4%-5% interest, you may want to first contribute to that to help them out before considering to invest the money in your OA.

If you are certain that you won’t need to help out your parents or spouse, you can look to the next commandment.

Commandment #8: Thou shall only invest in the STI ETF or not at all
The only time that you should consider investing your CPF OA monies is when you can make a better return on your investment to sufficiently out perform the 2.5% interest enough to make up for the risk you are taking. With that kind of criteria, the only investment vehicle in the government-approved list is the STI ETF, and here’s why:
  • It has a low expense ratio. With the expense ratio of only 0.30% and 0.34% (for SPDR STI ETF and Nikki AM STI ETF respectively) it has lower expense ratio than all the available Unit Trusts (which starts around 0.60% and goes as high as 1.75%.) As we all know, the best predictor of future returns is the expense ratio of a fund. The higher the expense ratio, the lower the future returns. As Unit Trusts are actively managed, they cannot compete with the expense ratio of the passively managed STI ETF.
  • It is passively managed. Although some actively managed funds do outperform the market, past performance does not predict their future returns and your chances of selecting a fund today that will outperform the market tomorrow is slim to none. Taken in aggregate, actively managed funds underperform passively managed funds after accounting for fees, you will be better served to ignore all Unit Trusts and Managed Funds in favor of a passively managed fund that tracks the performance of the market like the STI ETF instead. This article from Market Watch breaks this down quite well.
  • It is more diversified. Comprising of 30 of the biggest Singapore-listed companies, the STI ETF provides a more diversified portfolio of shares that roughly represents the performance of Singapore’s economy. This will provide lower risk than things like the available Gold ETF and you are investing in companies which are actively working to provide you with better performance and returns - commodities do not have this characteristic.
  • It provides a better risk-adjusted return. Lastly, we must compare the returns of the investment vehicles against the returns of the CPF OA. Given that the CPF OA provides a risk-free return of 2.5%, any investment vehicle we consider must provide a higher return than this. Taking this lease, we can forget about any Fixed Deposit, Treasury Bills, Singapore Government Bonds or any other bonds for that matter. This includes the ABF Singapore Bond Fund. Why? Based on the fund’s fact sheet, the fund only provided 2.58% return p.a. since inception, which is not much better than the CPA OA, and is likely negative when you adjust for risk. Compare this to the 6.58% p.a. return since inception of the SPDR STI ETF and you can clearly see that the STI ETF is a much better choice in terms of potential returns. If you want to invest in the ABF Bond Index Fund or the any other low-risk-low-return vehicles mentioned, you’re better off keeping the money in your CPF OA instead.

In a cheat sheet table format, here are the reasons why each of the investment products aren’t as good as the STI ETF for CPF investment (cheat sheet is a table on my blog):
firepathlion.com/10-commandments-before-investing-cpf-money/

Commandment #9: Thou shall not need the CPF money for at least 10 years
Investing is risky and the short term returns are never guaranteed. The returns of index investing, no matter which index you follow is only going to trend positive over a long term, in this case the length of time is likely going to be around 10 years.

You can refer to my 4 part series on the returns of the STI ETF for a better understanding of the rate of returns in the last 11 years. In the short term the rate of returns is extremely volatile and only trends towards less volatility as the time horizon increases. You’re more likely to have a positive return - a return higher than the CPF OA - if you hold on to the investment for a longer period. So make sure you won’t need this money for anything else in the above commandments before even considering to invest this money. If you do need it, you may be forced to sell your investment when the timing is not favorable and end up losing money.

Of course if you are investing already, remember to also reinvest your dividends.

Commandment #10: Thou shall have a high tolerance for risk
Before doing any investments, you must understand your own risk tolerance. All investments involve risk and it’s possible that your investment tanks 50% over night. You must have the mental fortitude to handle this kind of drop without panicking and selling your investments if you want to park your hard-earned money into equities. Even though investing in index funds like the STI ETF lowers the risk due to diversification, if Singapore or the global economy enters a recession, then a large drop like in 2008-2009 is not impossible. By investing into an index fund like the STI ETF, you are ensuring that your holdings never goes to 0 unlikely investing in individual companies (which can go bankrupt.) Of course if the STI ETF goes to 0, we all probably has much bigger things to worry about.

In order to understand your risk tolerance, you can take the Risk Tolerance Questionnaire provided by the CPF Board before investing your funds. If you finish the questionnaire with a high risk tolerance then you may be able to handle the risk involved in investing your CPF monies in the STI ETF.

Conclusion
So how did you do? If you’re like me, you’d find that you’re far from ready to invest your CPF dollars. I currently haven’t met the requirements for Commandments 3 and 5 and likely won’t meet that for a long time.

Your situation may be different so assess it thoroughly based on your circumstances and the contents in this article should not be taken as investment advice. However, I believe the criteria above are quite stringent and there isn’t going to be a lot of people who will be able to meet all of the requirements. This leads me to a conclusion that for most people, investing your CPF money will likely be a bad idea.

What do you think about the 10 Commandments? Do you agree or disagree or have anything to add to this list? As always, I’d love to hear your feedback and comments. Feel free to leave it down below or message me on Twitter @firepathlion.

Until next time!

FPL
 

Summer78

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Hi guys,

Since the CPF Board allow us to use our CPF to invest in government-approved investing vehicles, I was thinking whether we should. I see the money sitting in the account and get to itch to put it to better use, so I took some time to consider the options available and what you can do with the CPF to determine whether it is a good idea and when I should start.

I've wrote up my findings in my blog but have copy pasted it here for you to read. I'd like to know your thoughts on whether this makes sense. Thanks!

If you want to read the actual post on the blog where there's an additional table, you can check it here (just add HTTPS in front): firepathlion.com/10-commandments-before-investing-cpf-money/

Cheers!

-----

CPF on FIRE: The 10 Commandments you must follow before investing your CPF money

After the analysis I’ve been doing on the STI ETF and the findings that came from that analysis, it’s been making me wonder if we should be investing our CPF OA monies in the STI ETF for the better returns.

If you’re not yet aware, as part of the CPF Investment Scheme (CPFIS), the Singapore Government allows CPF members to invest their CPF Ordinary Account (OA) and Special Account (SA) monies into a set of government-approved investment vehicles instead of leaving it in the account to earn the risk-free interest. Two of those approved vehicles are the SPDR STI ETF and the Nikko AM STI ETF, so you can choose either to invest in, but should you?

Since the STI ETF has demonstrate such high returns over the last 11 years, for both DCA and Lump Sum, it’s easy to see why it might be attractive to forego the guaranteed-but-small returns of the CPF OA and instead park it into the STI instead.

However, there are many things you need to consider before jumping to invest your hard-earned CPF money as there are other things you can use it for. Plus, risk-free returns is nothing to sneeze at. So when should you consider investing your CPF? Does it ever make sense?

After a bit of thinking and looking through all the options, I found that there are 10 conditions that you must meet before thinking about investing the CPF money, I even have the clickbaity title to go with it. So as you go through these conditions, check to see if you meet the criteria.

Here are the 10 Commandments you must meet before you consider investing your CPF money:

Commandment #1: Thou shall be more than 18 years old
The first conditions are simple, you are not allowed to invest your CPF money using the CPFIS until you are older than 18 years old. Only start looking at investing the CPF money after you turn 19.

Commandment #2: Thou shall have more than S$20,000 in your CPF OA
Another condition to qualify for CPFIS, you are only able to invest CPF OA money that is above the first S$20,000. If you have yet to reach this level of CPF OA balance, forget about investing it.

Commandment #3: Thou shall have reached the Full Retirement Sum in your CPF SA
The last condition to qualify for CPFIS is the amount in your CPF SA. The minimum amount required in your CPF SA is any amount above S$40,000, however you have to also be mindful of the Full Retirement Sum. Previously, I wrote about how to optimally handle your CPF LIFE with the conclusion that in order to make full use of the CPF LIFE, you should try to reach the Full Retirement Sum as quickly as possible to enjoy the benefits of the payout when you reach the age of 65.

So if you haven’t already reached your Full Retirement Sum in your CPF SA, you have no reason to be considering investing your CPF money.

Commandment #4: Thou shall only invest your CPF OA monies
Although you are allowed to invest both your CPF OA and SA, the money in the CPF SA earns a much higher risk-free return (4%) than CPF OA does (2.5%) - for amounts past the bonus interest. You should be taking full advantage of that before starting any investment.

If you are following these commandments exactly, then you’d be trying to get to the Full Retirement Sum as per commandment #3. After that, any money that would have gone into the CPF SA will be diverted to the CPF OA, which gives a much lower interest. That can potentially justify you investing the money instead in an attempt to earn a higher return.

Commandment #5: Thou shall not need the CPF money for housing
For the amounts of money within your CPF OA, you are allowed to use this money to purchase a home. The several uses in this regard are:
  1. Pay for the down payment on the property.
  2. Pay for the monthly instalment of the mortgage on the property.
If you have a plan to purchase a home or getting a mortgage to purchase a property, you should make use of the CPF money for this purpose first or else you will end up having to fork over money from outside your CPF to pay for your down payment and mortgage instalment.

There’s really no point to try to invest your CPF money but you end up having to use cash to pay for a mortgage. Only start investing your CPF if you already have your mortgages and down payment covered by your CPF.

Commandment #6: Thou shall not need the CPF money for education
Aside from housing you can also make use of CPF to pay for education expenses for yourself, your spouse, children or siblings with the CPF Education Scheme. Although it is a loan and you must pay back the principle plus the interest after you graduate, with the bank’s prime rate hovering between 5.2% and 5.4% in the last 10 years (and this is as low as it’s ever been), the 2.5% interest rate of the CPF OA is a steal.

So if you or your spouse and children are looking to further your studies, you should use your CPF OA monies for that first before looking to investing it.

Commandment #7: Thou shall not need to top up your parents or spouse’s CPF SA
In addition to topping up your own CPF SA to earn higher interest rate and reach the Full Retirement Sum faster, you are also able to use your CPF OA to topup the CPF SA of your parents or spouse to help them build up their Retirement Sum. As their CPF SA also receive the higher 4%-5% interest, you may want to first contribute to that to help them out before considering to invest the money in your OA.

If you are certain that you won’t need to help out your parents or spouse, you can look to the next commandment.

Commandment #8: Thou shall only invest in the STI ETF or not at all
The only time that you should consider investing your CPF OA monies is when you can make a better return on your investment to sufficiently out perform the 2.5% interest enough to make up for the risk you are taking. With that kind of criteria, the only investment vehicle in the government-approved list is the STI ETF, and here’s why:
  • It has a low expense ratio. With the expense ratio of only 0.30% and 0.34% (for SPDR STI ETF and Nikki AM STI ETF respectively) it has lower expense ratio than all the available Unit Trusts (which starts around 0.60% and goes as high as 1.75%.) As we all know, the best predictor of future returns is the expense ratio of a fund. The higher the expense ratio, the lower the future returns. As Unit Trusts are actively managed, they cannot compete with the expense ratio of the passively managed STI ETF.
  • It is passively managed. Although some actively managed funds do outperform the market, past performance does not predict their future returns and your chances of selecting a fund today that will outperform the market tomorrow is slim to none. Taken in aggregate, actively managed funds underperform passively managed funds after accounting for fees, you will be better served to ignore all Unit Trusts and Managed Funds in favor of a passively managed fund that tracks the performance of the market like the STI ETF instead. This article from Market Watch breaks this down quite well.
  • It is more diversified. Comprising of 30 of the biggest Singapore-listed companies, the STI ETF provides a more diversified portfolio of shares that roughly represents the performance of Singapore’s economy. This will provide lower risk than things like the available Gold ETF and you are investing in companies which are actively working to provide you with better performance and returns - commodities do not have this characteristic.
  • It provides a better risk-adjusted return. Lastly, we must compare the returns of the investment vehicles against the returns of the CPF OA. Given that the CPF OA provides a risk-free return of 2.5%, any investment vehicle we consider must provide a higher return than this. Taking this lease, we can forget about any Fixed Deposit, Treasury Bills, Singapore Government Bonds or any other bonds for that matter. This includes the ABF Singapore Bond Fund. Why? Based on the fund’s fact sheet, the fund only provided 2.58% return p.a. since inception, which is not much better than the CPA OA, and is likely negative when you adjust for risk. Compare this to the 6.58% p.a. return since inception of the SPDR STI ETF and you can clearly see that the STI ETF is a much better choice in terms of potential returns. If you want to invest in the ABF Bond Index Fund or the any other low-risk-low-return vehicles mentioned, you’re better off keeping the money in your CPF OA instead.

In a cheat sheet table format, here are the reasons why each of the investment products aren’t as good as the STI ETF for CPF investment (cheat sheet is a table on my blog):
firepathlion.com/10-commandments-before-investing-cpf-money/

Commandment #9: Thou shall not need the CPF money for at least 10 years
Investing is risky and the short term returns are never guaranteed. The returns of index investing, no matter which index you follow is only going to trend positive over a long term, in this case the length of time is likely going to be around 10 years.

You can refer to my 4 part series on the returns of the STI ETF for a better understanding of the rate of returns in the last 11 years. In the short term the rate of returns is extremely volatile and only trends towards less volatility as the time horizon increases. You’re more likely to have a positive return - a return higher than the CPF OA - if you hold on to the investment for a longer period. So make sure you won’t need this money for anything else in the above commandments before even considering to invest this money. If you do need it, you may be forced to sell your investment when the timing is not favorable and end up losing money.

Of course if you are investing already, remember to also reinvest your dividends.

Commandment #10: Thou shall have a high tolerance for risk
Before doing any investments, you must understand your own risk tolerance. All investments involve risk and it’s possible that your investment tanks 50% over night. You must have the mental fortitude to handle this kind of drop without panicking and selling your investments if you want to park your hard-earned money into equities. Even though investing in index funds like the STI ETF lowers the risk due to diversification, if Singapore or the global economy enters a recession, then a large drop like in 2008-2009 is not impossible. By investing into an index fund like the STI ETF, you are ensuring that your holdings never goes to 0 unlikely investing in individual companies (which can go bankrupt.) Of course if the STI ETF goes to 0, we all probably has much bigger things to worry about.

In order to understand your risk tolerance, you can take the Risk Tolerance Questionnaire provided by the CPF Board before investing your funds. If you finish the questionnaire with a high risk tolerance then you may be able to handle the risk involved in investing your CPF monies in the STI ETF.

Conclusion
So how did you do? If you’re like me, you’d find that you’re far from ready to invest your CPF dollars. I currently haven’t met the requirements for Commandments 3 and 5 and likely won’t meet that for a long time.

Your situation may be different so assess it thoroughly based on your circumstances and the contents in this article should not be taken as investment advice. However, I believe the criteria above are quite stringent and there isn’t going to be a lot of people who will be able to meet all of the requirements. This leads me to a conclusion that for most people, investing your CPF money will likely be a bad idea.

What do you think about the 10 Commandments? Do you agree or disagree or have anything to add to this list? As always, I’d love to hear your feedback and comments. Feel free to leave it down below or message me on Twitter @firepathlion.

Until next time!

FPL

TL; DL.......
 

firepathlion

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TL;DR: Probably not a good idea to invest CPF for most people, there's a lot of other things you should do first before you should even look at investing it. You should probably just leave it in there, or at least move it to the CPF SA until you reach the FRS.
 

BBCWatcher

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I agree with your logic, firepathlion — well said. A couple minor comments from me:

1. Parents might have Retirement Accounts (RAs) instead of SAs, so Commandment #7 needs a little adjustment. However, cash top ups might qualify for tax relief, and that’s a better deal than transfers from OA.

2. I’d expand on Command #8 to note that UOB currently offers the lowest cost (by a whisker) CPF Investment Account.

3. Commandment #5 is a bit tricky. For example, it should not be interpreted as a call to accelerate repayment on a comparatively low interest rate mortgage.
 

w1rbelw1nd

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Disagree with 4 and 7. I am invested in STI etf, as a late twenties working adult using CPF OA without having max CPF SA.

I don't understand why people think that CPF SA is undisputably the best investment vehicle to be maxed out for all people. I treasure the flexibility of the money in CPF OA, and the higher expected returns of STI ETF.
 

Toni90

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I only invest my CPF on properties (and nothing else)! Reasons being very simple, when you invest in the other gov-approved investing vehicles, they attract:

1) Very high sales charges.
2) Very high recurring annual management fees.
3) Low returns from such vehicles.
4) Can't leverage (meaning low returns).

Good choice. OA is for property. Just buy it.
 

mummy1234

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If you already have a HDB, is there risks using CPF for 2nd property? compare using CPF for STI ETF?

Of course there r risks in every investment. That is why important to make wise investment decisions.
I just sold my second property mainly to get back absd and luckily we made a profit. We r the only unit in our condo so far to make a profit thanks to my hubby who requested redesign of our condo by removing a wall so that it can be a 2 bedder or 1 bedder with bigger living room. Initial design was 1 bedder with small study room and tiny living room.
 

limster

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Disagree with 4 and 7. I am invested in STI etf, as a late twenties working adult using CPF OA without having max CPF SA.

I don't understand why people think that CPF SA is undisputably the best investment vehicle to be maxed out for all people. I treasure the flexibility of the money in CPF OA, and the higher expected returns of STI ETF.

yup i am vested in STI ETF as well using CPF-OA. Since CPFIS charge you holding fees 'per counter', I try not to hold too many counters in CPFIS.
 

firepathlion

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I agree with your logic, firepathlion — well said. A couple minor comments from me:

1. Parents might have Retirement Accounts (RAs) instead of SAs, so Commandment #7 needs a little adjustment. However, cash top ups might qualify for tax relief, and that’s a better deal than transfers from OA.

2. I’d expand on Command #8 to note that UOB currently offers the lowest cost (by a whisker) CPF Investment Account.

3. Commandment #5 is a bit tricky. For example, it should not be interpreted as a call to accelerate repayment on a comparatively low interest rate mortgage.

Definitely agree with all your points BBCWatcher. It is true that you get a better deal due to tax relief by using cash topup in your parent's RA and SA instead of topping up using OA.

For #3, I definitely should clarify that since the mortgage interest rate is so low, you should really only use as much CPF to pay for the required mortgage payment, but nothing more. Spending CPF OA that earns 2.5% interest to pay off a mortgage loan that may only be costing 2% is not a good idea. Especially since the CPF OA money that's used to pay for mortgage is actually a loan which you will have to pay 2.5% in interest for. You're essentially converting a 2% mortgage into a 2.5% CPF loan. The only reason you'd do this is so that you don't have to service the loan with cash, which you can then use to invest outside of CPF to earn (hopefully) higher returns.
 

firepathlion

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Totally disagree with 8.

There are ways to outperform STI ETF.
I guess I subscribe to the idea that a broad-based passive fund outperforms active investments after fees. There may be ways you can outperform the STI ETF with the available instruments in the CPFIS, but you'll be taking on more risk and requires you to be right at picking the right investments / funds which not everybody can do reliably over the long term.
 

firepathlion

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Disagree with 4 and 7. I am invested in STI etf, as a late twenties working adult using CPF OA without having max CPF SA.

I don't understand why people think that CPF SA is undisputably the best investment vehicle to be maxed out for all people. I treasure the flexibility of the money in CPF OA, and the higher expected returns of STI ETF.

I think because the CPF SA provides a risk-free return of at least 4% and that's not horrible. Sure the STI ETF did provide a very good return over the last 11 years (based on my calculations, it was 7.15% p.a. return if you DCA for the last 11 years, which is pretty good!)

It's also viable to invest in the STI ETF as a way to reach the FRS faster by using the higher returns of the STI ETF in the CPF OA.

However, if I adjust for risk, the STI ETF returns will go down and may be closer to 4% than we think. So I think it also comes down to the risk appetite and whether you feel it's worth it.
 

JuniorLion

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I guess I subscribe to the idea that a broad-based passive fund outperforms active investments after fees. There may be ways you can outperform the STI ETF with the available instruments in the CPFIS, but you'll be taking on more risk and requires you to be right at picking the right investments / funds which not everybody can do reliably over the long term.

I guess you haven't analyzed enough mutual funds that are allowed to be purchased with CPFIS-OA. Maybe you should.
 

w1rbelw1nd

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CPF SA is not guaranteed to be 4%. Same as CPF OA 2.5%. I think we need to get these basic right first.

And why are you "adjusting for risk"? Volatility of STI ETF price movement means little if you are talking about the certainty to hit 4%-5% returns over an extended period of time. If one decided to put their funds in a vehicle (SA) long term and get X% returns from it, shouldn't one also ignore the short term volatility of the next best opportunity (OA STI ETF) to make it a like for like comparison?

On the point above, if one doesn't have CPF SA maxed out at say 50 years old, then I would encourage him to do so. But go get a young fresh graduate to top up his SA when he had 30 years of investment horizon to ride out all short term volatility? I think that's far from prudent.

Not to mention. It's been convenientlyassumed that STI ETF is the only low cost, (not so) diversified investment vehicle perpetually. I heard news that there will other ETF/low cost fund available in the near future. Those who have pumped their money in SA would have locked in the 4% and the policy risk that the 4% will be reduced.

I think because the CPF SA provides a risk-free return of at least 4% and that's not horrible. Sure the STI ETF did provide a very good return over the last 11 years (based on my calculations, it was 7.15% p.a. return if you DCA for the last 11 years, which is pretty good!)

It's also viable to invest in the STI ETF as a way to reach the FRS faster by using the higher returns of the STI ETF in the CPF OA.

However, if I adjust for risk, the STI ETF returns will go down and may be closer to 4% than we think. So I think it also comes down to the risk appetite and whether you feel it's worth it.
 
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BBCWatcher

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For #3, I definitely should clarify that since the mortgage interest rate is so low, you should really only use as much CPF to pay for the required mortgage payment, but nothing more. Spending CPF OA that earns 2.5% interest to pay off a mortgage loan that may only be costing 2% is not a good idea.
To accelerate repayment on a low cost mortgage, i.e. to pay off the mortgage at a faster than scheduled pace. That’s right, you don’t want to use 2.5% interest earning dollars to pay off a 2% loan any faster than required. I’m making the important assumption that you save responsibly and invest prudently.

CPF SA is not guaranteed to be 4%. Same as CPF OA 2.5%. I think we need to get these basic right first.
Not technically, no, but just take a look at the remarkably reliable CPF track record.

If CPF’s interest rates were to fall that’d happen in a world when you’d still be grateful for the lower rates, i.e. in a deflationary and low yielding world. And the Asian and Global Financial Crises weren’t bad enough; it’d have to be something even worse.
 
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no diff lah..........CPF is an unsustainable blackhole.........those in their 20's will witness CPF default..........

the next coming financial crisis (bigger than subprime) may just wipe us out........Temasek + GIC will lose minimum 50% on stock price on all their investments......then lose another 30% or more on currency conversion back to SGD......

then financial crisis will bring on recession.........more people lose jobs = less money going into CPF............while more retirees = more money coming out of CPF..........

then FTs going home will get all their CPF money + compounded interests..........Sinkies jialat big-time.........
 

JuniorLion

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no diff lah..........CPF is an unsustainable blackhole.........those in their 20's will witness CPF default..........

the next coming financial crisis (bigger than subprime) may just wipe us out........Temasek + GIC will lose minimum 50% on stock price on all their investments......then lose another 30% or more on currency conversion back to SGD......

then financial crisis will bring on recession.........more people lose jobs = less money going into CPF............while more retirees = more money coming out of CPF..........

then FTs going home will get all their CPF money + compounded interests..........Sinkies jialat big-time.........

Go back to EDMW.
 
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