Singapore SGS Bond

[dappermen]

Been reading many asking similar qns all over the place?! In similar threads

while SGS Bond need to find buyer to take over to cash out. this is the part where will be interesting to know more about how to buy and sell these in order to cash out when you need to (like suddenly) versus SSB

Just like temasek-issued retail bonds, anyone is free to “trade” on sgx

I may have misunderstood wat exactly it mean “take over to cash out”
So long u transacted it just like how u sell your etf or equities, the somebody will “takeover” them/buy ov them

pricing listed here too: (from all time fav Astrea SQ, and once famous Hyflux* etc are all listed here for your trdg)
https://www.sgx.com/fixed-income/retail-fixed-income-securities?code=retailbondshttps://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...ties/Buy-and-Sell-SGS-on-the-Secondary-Market
But u may not get back your principal at most situatn….. in the mkt



* EVEN the trdg details are all listed for u
Securities Market Trading Hours: 0900 - 1200 hrs | 1300 - 1700 hrs

Pre-Open: 0830 – 0858-59* hrs | Non-Cancel: 0858-59* – 0900 hrs | Mid Day Pre-Open: 1200 – 1258-59* hrs | Mid Day Non-Cancel: 1258-59* – 1300 hrs | Pre-Close: 1700 – 1704-05* hrs | Non-Cancel: 1704-05 –1706 hrs | Trade at Close: 1706 – 1716 hrs

 

[d5dude]

Been reading many asking similar qns all over the place?! In similar threads

Just like temasek-issued retail bonds, anyone is free to “trade” on sgx

I may have misunderstood wat exactly it mean “take over to cash out”
So long u transacted it just like how u sell your etf or equities, the somebody will “takeover” them/buy ov them

pricing listed here too: (from all time fav Astrea SQ, and once famous Hyflux* etc are all listed here for your trdg)
https://www.sgx.com/fixed-income/retail-fixed-income-securities?code=retailbondshttps://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bi...ties/Buy-and-Sell-SGS-on-the-Secondary-Market
But u may not get back your principal at most situatn….. in the mkt



* EVEN the trdg details are all listed for u
Securities Market Trading Hours: 0900 - 1200 hrs | 1300 - 1700 hrs

Pre-Open: 0830 – 0858-59* hrs | Non-Cancel: 0858-59* – 0900 hrs | Mid Day Pre-Open: 1200 – 1258-59* hrs | Mid Day Non-Cancel: 1258-59* – 1300 hrs | Pre-Close: 1700 – 1704-05* hrs | Non-Cancel: 1704-05 –1706 hrs | Trade at Close: 1706 – 1716 hrs

SGX, which tends to be extremely illiquid, is primarily for retail investors. Institutions trade SGS and many other wholesale bonds OTC, FSM's platform allow retail investors to access the OTC market, this is where the exit liquidity comes from.

 

[dappermen]

SGX, which tends to be extremely illiquid, is primarily for retail investors. Institutions trade SGS and many other wholesale bonds OTC, FSM's platform allow retail investors to access the OTC market, this is where the exit liquidity comes from.

Using the https://www.bondsupermart.com/bsm/bond-express " bond express"?
but u sure SGS etc are on that?

 

[d5dude]

Using the https://www.bondsupermart.com/bsm/bond-express " bond express"?
but u sure SGS, Sg t bills etc are on that?

Bond express is a separate "mini exchange" for AI only and most wholesale bonds are not traded on BE, for most wholesale bonds and SGS you have to go thru the OTC market if you want to find liquidity. Basically just think of SGS bond as another type of wholesale bond.

As for T bills, there is no secondary market that I know of for retail investors, even FSM doesnt have them on their platform.

 

[dappermen]

Bro abv , wish to know how to go thru "OTC mkt" to get the best liq, i m more puzzled how Liquid can it get?

for most wholesale bonds and SGS you have to go thru the OTC market if you want to find liquidity. Basically just think of SGS bond as another type of wholesale bond.

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/bonds/sgs-bond

10.00 : Processing Fee (SGD)​

Note: SGS bond prices quoted on SGX are market prices and include accrued interest (known as the “dirty price”).

The daily closing prices shown on MAS are bid rates quoted by primary dealers. These exclude any accrued interest (known as the "clean price").

not sure of the cost if traded on SGX instead

 

[reddevil0728]

Bond express is a separate "mini exchange" for AI only and most wholesale bonds are not traded on BE, for most wholesale bonds and SGS you have to go thru the OTC market if you want to find liquidity. Basically just think of SGS bond as another type of wholesale bond.

As for T bills, there is no secondary market that I know of for retail investors, even FSM doesnt have them on their platform.

Secondary market trading: At DBS, OCBC and UOB main branches. View branch and contact details.

directly with banks it seem

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/Singapore-Government-T-bills-Information-for-Individuals

 

[d5dude]

Bro abv , wish to know how to go thru "OTC mkt" to get the best liq, i m more puzzled how Liquid can it get?

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/bonds/sgs-bond

10.00 : Processing Fee (SGD)​

Note: SGS bond prices quoted on SGX are market prices and include accrued interest (known as the “dirty price”).

The daily closing prices shown on MAS are bid rates quoted by primary dealers. These exclude any accrued interest (known as the "clean price").

not sure of the cost if traded on SGX instead

I think not very liquid, many bonds have no actual daily transactions even in the OTC market, I know this from observing the daily "high/low" prices published on MAS' website, some days there are zero prices recorded, this must mean that the benchmarks were estimated from the median of the bid/ask spread, not actual transactions.

But the fact that there are bids and asks means that there is exit liquidity, but you will have to pay the spread to get out.

 

[dappermen]

i felt so too :

I think not very liquid, many bonds have no actual daily transactions even in the OTC market

and yes, ended up??after all the fees? ...very likely wil nt get back even @ Principal ( 1 will comfort another that at least "there are ( half-yrly ) coupons" recd before his date of redemption

so? not too "comforting" or encouraging for small retail investors, unless they are damned rich and invested alot

there are bids and asks means that there is exit liquidity, but you will have to pay the spread to get out.

But u may not get back your principal at most situatn….. in the mkt

 

[d5dude]

Secondary market trading: At DBS, OCBC and UOB main branches. View branch and contact details.

directly with banks it seem

https://www.mas.gov.sg/bonds-and-bills/Singapore-Government-T-bills-Information-for-Individuals

Yes can deal with banks but it appears nobody does that, not even institutions deal with these things in the secondary market, I've observed that there have been zero transactions for bills in the last couple of months (no prices posted by MAS). I think nobody deals with them in the secondary market because they have extremely short duration, it makes no sense for sellers to pay the spread when one can just wait out the maturity. For buyers it also makes no sense because the auctions are conducted twice a month.

 

[d5dude]

i felt so too :


and yes, ended up??after all the fees? ...very likely wil nt get back even @ Principal ( 1 will comfort another that at least "there are ( half-yrly ) coupons" recd before his date of redemption

so? not too "comforting" or encouraging for small retail investors, unless they are damned rich and invested alot

Can get back capital or not depends on bond prices, I think liquidity is less of a worry.

 

[lzydata]

Personally I would not recommend that individual retail investors hold SGS bonds beyond 2 years or so. Illiquidity and duration risk. SSB is the better option.

I know some people look at the 10 year SGS yield and go wow, I want some of that, but if it goes down 10% in value, and you are unable to sell, are you able to look at it in your CDP statement every month with equanimity Even if so, there are obviously better options.

For example, the current 10 year benchmark NX21100N maturing 2031, price 89.82 as of 1 July.

 

[dappermen]

I didnt wanna emphasize liq at all

to me, it wont even fetch a gd pricing at all be it whichever location u r trdg at

Just hold till the end!

unless there are gd mkt conditions tt warrant a sale/redemptn

But u may not get back your principal at most situatn…..

 

[maumu]

Personally I would not recommend that individual retail investors hold SGS bonds beyond 2 years or so. Illiquidity and duration risk. SSB is the better option.

I know some people look at the 10 year SGS yield and go wow, I want some of that, but if it goes down 10% in value, and you are unable to sell, are you able to look at it in your CDP statement every month with equanimity Even if so, there are obviously better options.

For example, the current 10 year benchmark NX21100N maturing 2031, price 89.82 as of 1 July.

personally when I buy 10-yr SGS I will keep until it mature and collect back principal.

dun wanna dabble into trading it in the market.. it becomes like shares to me. no time for that (to track price, etc.)

it's like a form of passive income when you get to collect coupons every 6 months... same as when we buy those corporate bonds but it's risk-free (or at least unless the govt collapse).

so I treat it very much like SSB. which I also don't intend to redeem unless there's a more attractive tranche that can outperform the current one.

 

[dappermen]

U have wisdom but not everyone will choose not to greed or to ride on the upside!

I supp u!

but which pays (comparatively) better rates/coupon?? eg all are in a 10yr series bond , ssb yield more total returns or SGS?

 

[luvpraline]

What do you mean zero activity recorded? Like u don’t see the holding?

I see the holding, but there are no price fluctuations, no latest price, no high/low prices.. unlike the other equities and bonds that I hold.

Probably similar to what @d5dude talked about. If sgs bonds are being traded through the brokers, why is there no activity recorded by mas?

 

[tangent314]

If sgs bonds are being traded through the brokers, why is there no activity recorded by mas?

https://eservices.mas.gov.sg/statistics/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

 

[dappermen]

Which is why i m bewildered! Be it watever avenue u choose to sell, does it matter??!!?

all obviously purchase to hold, isnt it? Why r there sales once in a blue moon, cos someone need to sell urgently due to some sort of emergencies but ie highly rare!
If one wish to sell and trade such bonds actively, why will they even purchase it n hold in the first place?
Even if there are movement- very limited as we could clearly see and likely at most of the scenario selling below par

I see the holding, but there are no price fluctuations, no latest price, no high/low prices.. unlike the other equities and bonds that I hold.

 

[luvpraline]

personally when I buy 10-yr SGS I will keep until it mature and collect back principal.

dun wanna dabble into trading it in the market.. it becomes like shares to me. no time for that (to track price, etc.)

it's like a form of passive income when you get to collect coupons every 6 months... same as when we buy those corporate bonds but it's risk-free (or at least unless the govt collapse).

so I treat it very much like SSB. which I also don't intend to redeem unless there's a more attractive tranche that can outperform the current one.

Yes I'm of a similar mind as you on longer term sgs. It will be for money that i intend to keep till maturity.

But i would still like to know how to exit in the unfortunate event that something terrible happens and even my emergency funds run out etc. Always good to know our options

 

[luvpraline]

https://eservices.mas.gov.sg/statistics/fdanet/SgsBenchmarkIssuePrices.aspx

I don't have my issue code at the moment but let me go find it and try to search in the link. Cdp portal does not record the latest prices/ transactions for sgs bonds?

 

[reddevil0728]

I don't have my issue code at the moment but let me go find it and try to search in the link. Cdp portal does not record the latest prices/ transactions for sgs bonds?

I think because the liquidity in SGX is thin, hence it’s mostly traded otc