Haagen Diaz
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So, what happened to the CAD's investigation on City Harvest?
- Thread starter bangkern
- Start date
Haagen Diaz
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Juz dun understand y they made a big hoo ha n then allow them to leave sinkapo... No conclusion .. Siberia gangjion see what will happen to them..
So they can spent some of the money?
Haagen Diaz
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Haagen Diaz
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This is crazy video.
Haagen Diaz
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CityHarvestFanboy - YouTube
Woah! That guy is dead against Kong Hee. Wow, he collected every new clippings about Kong hee and his wife. Faint!
Woah! That guy is dead against Kong Hee. Wow, he collected every new clippings about Kong hee and his wife. Faint!
Haagen Diaz
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That certain clip shows the younger version of Kong Hee speaking his vision.
Haagen Diaz
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C3ChurchWatch - Kong Hee At Presence 2012, Night 2, (Part 3)
http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/how-can-kong-hee-say-i-do-maintain-my-integritypart-3/
In this article, we would like to point out to readers that Kong Hee HAS in the past pitted God and the church against Singaporean authorities. This is wrong and not Christian.
We would like to remind listeners that Kong Hee is not Jesus even though he paraded that he was a ‘Jesus’ at the Presence Conference 2012. This is blasphemy. Kong Hee is not God. Kong Hee did not die on a cross crying “My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!” Kong Hee – like everyone else, is a sinner.
We will also point out that God also is not a liar as Kong Hee has made God out to be in the below segment we quoted him in.
We are slowly but assuredly demonstrating with evidence that Kong Hee has very little integrity to maintain – and that his congregation should not accept him as a genuine Christian minister but as an “impostor” going “from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived” (2 Timothy 3:13).
He has unaccredited credentials but still advertises himself as Dr Kong Hee:
How Can Kong Hee Say “I Do Maintain My Integrity”? (Part 1)
He attacks Christianity, preaching his own made-up message and has a ministry that counters the biblical ministry of Christ and his church:
How Can Kong Hee Say “I Do Maintain My Integrity”? (Part 2)
We’ve already shown that Kong Hee not only attacks Christianity by twisting the scriptures and the integrity of God, he also lies to people AND emotionally manipulates people to empty their bank accounts:
The Pirate, The Presence & The Peddlers
Empty your Bank Account | Phil Pringle’s negligence in allowing Kong Hee to fleece at Presence 2012
When we reported that the Singaporean news informed that Kong Hee and church officials were arrested, Chris Rosebrough reviewed a bit of Kong Hee’s sermon at Phil Pringle’s Presence Conference here:
At the C3 Presence Conference, Kong Hee spoke to audiences all around Australia, all around the world and to many different denominations. In portraying himself as a type of innocent Jesus Christ, Kong Hee is painting those that are persecuting (investigating) him as brutal and unjust.
Here is part of the transcript of Kong Hee on the first official night of Presence Conference (our emphasis in bold):
“And [God the Father] said, ‘My son, I’m so sorry that you need to go through this alone. But you need to die and you need to go through this to be the Saviour of the world!’ And God the Father had broken and He wept as He turned His face, when His son took the sin of the whole world.
I was saying all this and I’m hearing myself behind the pulpit- and I froze. I could not utter another word. And I sobbed and I shook. Because those were my exact sentiments.
“Father, Father! Why?
My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me and thrown me to the dogs?” [Clicks fingers] And for the first time in eight months, I heard the voice. It is not the voice of a strict angry judge that only want me to perform and build a big church and nothing I do is ever good enough for him. No. It’s not a voice of angry judge. It’s not the voice of a slave driver. That just wants to take and take and wring me dry. But it was a voice of a tender, loving, broken-hearted Father.
For the first time in eight months, God – I heard Him crying. And He said, “My son, Kong, thank you! Thank you for going through this. I need you to go through this alone so that you and City Harvest Church can be the man and the ministry I call it to be. I’m so sorry. But you need to go through with this by yourself, to bring a change to your generation”. [Crowds applause]
Oh come on! Give the Lord a big hand tonight!
I hear God saying for the first time in eight months, “I love you! I love you! I love you!” Waves upon waves of God’s love- the love of the Father, just, saturated me. All I could say was, “Abba! Abba!! AABBAAH!!! Daddy! ABBA!!!”
And I knew, everything was going to be, alright. [Crowds applause]
Everything was going to be alright.” – Kong Hee.
As Chris Rosebrough said, everything now is not all right for Kong Hee.
In regards to Kong Hee saying, “thrown to the dogs” – it could be an expression. However it is possible that Kong Hee was alluding to the ‘authorities’ crucifying him in the Messianic psalm since he is playing himself as a messiah-like figure:
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? . . . you lay me in the dust of death for dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet.” Psalm 22:1, 15-16
This coded language is language Phil Pringle also uses. Radio host Chris Rosebrough alerts listeners to this deceptive preaching technique Pringle used in his ‘March 17, 2012′ edition of ‘Fighting For the Faith’. While onlookers may not know what Kong Hee or Phil Pringle are saying, Christians would make the connection Kong Hee is talking about in regards to the popular Messianic psalm.
However, even if we are simply reading too much into this ‘expression’, this does negate the fact Kong Hee (the victim) is still portraying himself as Christ being persecuted by unjust authorities. Christians know that the bible teaches that Jesus was tried unfairly, persecuted and crucified by corrupt leaders. So why is Kong Hee associating his experience to Christ’s experience of persecution?
The unbiblical associations Kong Hee draws between himself and the Singaporean authorities and Christ’s experience is shameful.
(Personal side note: after talking to individuals after the C3 Conference, many said they admired that Kong Hee was being persecuted for the cause of Christ. They seemed hostile to think likewise. They pointed out things he said I missed. After re-watching the footage, the entire talk Kong Hee gave was propaganda at best to pit Christianity against a ‘pagan country’.)
If anyone wants access to the footage, we will present this on C3 Church Watch once we have critiqued the majority of the session for copyright reason. Dan Gorter has also critiqued other segments of this footage (read below), exposing Pringle’s negligence in warning people that Hee was being investigated for financial misconduct.
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Haagen Diaz
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Kong Hee deserves his luxury Sentosa Cove mansion « praisevariants
Christians and especially members of the public should just shut up about Pastor Kong Hee’s multi-million dollar residence in Sentosa Cove, or his wife’s luxury residence in the US. Because he deserves it, according to the Prosperity Gospel:
I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. – Genesis 12:12 (NLT)
It is easy to read it as God will give us wealth so that we can use our material wealth to bless others. Notice how everything about blessing can be interpreted to be in the material sense, although we know the term has been used in other ways, like having many children, spiritual blessing, etc. Combine this with the various promises of increasing your wealth by x number of times – eg. Five-fold, ten-fold and so on, which are promises given to patriarchs in the old testament, and you know you’ve got a great thing going.
So it is perfectly consistent, and rational, that according to his teaching, since he has touched so many lives and he has blessed so many, and is a devout man of God, that these luxury residences are God’s blessing to him.
Another one I keep hearing is:
Jesus nailed your poverty (and sickness, etc) on the cross
Can’t find a bible reference, but just google the phrase, I didn’t make this up. Also doesn’t leave much to the imagination once the Son of God removes your material poverty! And let’s not forget:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. – John 10:10 (1984NIV)
Which can be easily understood to referring to a materially abundant life. Not like this.
By the way, those who believe the above teachings and try to claim them but failed, just haven’t had ‘enough’ faith!
But I want to say right now that this is not the Gospel according to the Apostles Mark, Matthew, Luke or John, but an intelligent patchwork of verses to sell the idea that Jesus came to make you rich.
The Prosperity Gospel’s selective reading of the bible runs contrary to Jesus’ many words in the new testament – where He teaches
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.” – Matthew 6:19 (1984NIV)
which is a general discourse against coveting material wealth. And this is consistent with the rest of the gospel.
So the rest of us should not complain about Kong Hee’s great mansion on earth, for that is his rightful reward, according to his Prosperity Gospel. But those who seek God’s true Kingdom, and the spiritual riches of God, and the forgiveness promised in Jesus, should look elsewhere.
Ever wonder about the origins of the phrase “as poor as a churchmouse”?
(Afternote: This is not a condemnation of rich people. It is about the false teaching that Jesus will make you rich if you believe in him, or Jesus wants you to pursue wealth in order to glorify him)
Christians and especially members of the public should just shut up about Pastor Kong Hee’s multi-million dollar residence in Sentosa Cove, or his wife’s luxury residence in the US. Because he deserves it, according to the Prosperity Gospel:
I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. – Genesis 12:12 (NLT)
It is easy to read it as God will give us wealth so that we can use our material wealth to bless others. Notice how everything about blessing can be interpreted to be in the material sense, although we know the term has been used in other ways, like having many children, spiritual blessing, etc. Combine this with the various promises of increasing your wealth by x number of times – eg. Five-fold, ten-fold and so on, which are promises given to patriarchs in the old testament, and you know you’ve got a great thing going.
So it is perfectly consistent, and rational, that according to his teaching, since he has touched so many lives and he has blessed so many, and is a devout man of God, that these luxury residences are God’s blessing to him.
Another one I keep hearing is:
Jesus nailed your poverty (and sickness, etc) on the cross
Can’t find a bible reference, but just google the phrase, I didn’t make this up. Also doesn’t leave much to the imagination once the Son of God removes your material poverty! And let’s not forget:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. – John 10:10 (1984NIV)
Which can be easily understood to referring to a materially abundant life. Not like this.
By the way, those who believe the above teachings and try to claim them but failed, just haven’t had ‘enough’ faith!
But I want to say right now that this is not the Gospel according to the Apostles Mark, Matthew, Luke or John, but an intelligent patchwork of verses to sell the idea that Jesus came to make you rich.
The Prosperity Gospel’s selective reading of the bible runs contrary to Jesus’ many words in the new testament – where He teaches
“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.” – Matthew 6:19 (1984NIV)
which is a general discourse against coveting material wealth. And this is consistent with the rest of the gospel.
So the rest of us should not complain about Kong Hee’s great mansion on earth, for that is his rightful reward, according to his Prosperity Gospel. But those who seek God’s true Kingdom, and the spiritual riches of God, and the forgiveness promised in Jesus, should look elsewhere.
Ever wonder about the origins of the phrase “as poor as a churchmouse”?
(Afternote: This is not a condemnation of rich people. It is about the false teaching that Jesus will make you rich if you believe in him, or Jesus wants you to pursue wealth in order to glorify him)
mryang
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I wonder when will the court start? I can't wait to hear the other side of KH's story.
So long!!!!
Haagen Diaz
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I wonder which side win and lose. Can we play the guessing game? 
Haagen Diaz
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From pastor-singer to geisha girl
It was published in Malaysia.
Sun Ho’s career has raised a few eyebrows since her debut in 2002.
FROM the start of her singing career, Ho Yeow Sun, or Sun Ho, stood out from the crowd because she was marketed as a pastor’s wife.
But by the time Ho was dirty dancing in the 2007 video for China Wine, the pastor’s wife label had long been set aside.
Her husband, Kong Hee, 47, is the founder of Singapore’s City Harvest Church. The couple have a seven-year-old son. Along with four others, Kong has been charged with conspiring to cheat the church in order to finance his wife’s music career.
The rise of Sun: In Kuala Lumpur for the launching of her debut Mandopop album Sun With Love in August 2002. – Filepic
Ho, 42, made her Mandopop debut with the album Sun With Love in 2002. In keeping with her then wholesome image, the album cover is a close-up of her barely made-up face, complete with freckles. Singapore’s Radio 100.3 vice-president Anna Lim says of the religious connection: “That was her selling point – something for people to remember and talk about.”
Even then, the album was not overtly religious.
Xiaohan, 38, who wrote the lyrics for Andersen on that record, recalls: “The direction given to the songwriters was that it was to be an album about love of all kinds, and that you could perceive it as love of God or love for your other half. But we knew she was a pastor’s wife.”
The lyricist says the songwriters were told that the songs ought not to hard-sell Christianity, but should sound like “regular commercial songs”. Ho’s popularity rocketed with the subsequent release of Sun*day in 2002 and Lonely Travel the year after.
Both albums sold more than 30,000 copies each in Singapore, estimates Warner Music marketing director James Kang. A top-selling artiste would sell at least this number of copies.
Sun*day won the Best Selling Album Of The Year accolade at the Singapore Hit Awards in 2003, pipping popular acts such as Taiwan’s boy band 5566 and homegrown singer Stefanie Sun.
The group 5566 caused a stir by threatening to boycott the awards that year, alleging “unfair practice”. Their First Album, released in 2002, had sold close to 50,000 copies and the group had expected to pick up the trophy for best-selling album.
Music industry insiders say Ho’s popularity was in part driven by extensive marketing. Lim says: “When she released her first album, she bought programmes to appear on the station to promote herself. It’s quite rare for singers to buy programmes; usually the record companies do it.”
Ho’s fourth and fifth Mandarin albums, distributed by Warner, fared less well in Singapore. Kang estimates that Gain (2006) and Embrace (2007) sold between 5,000 and 10,000 copies each in the city-state.
Kang says that for the earlier albums, Ho was concentrating her efforts locally “to achieve the highest sales and greatest exposure she could get”.
But from her second album Sun*day on, she shifted her attention to Taiwan. Taiwanese radio deejay Tso Kuang-ping, 30, recalls Ho doing really well in Taiwan about seven years ago. Her songs were being sung in karaoke sessions and her albums topped the sales charts. Lonely Travel, released in 2003, as well as Gain and Embrace all went to No.1 in Taiwan on the authoritative G-Music Mandarin album chart.
Tso says: “In Taiwan, people did not see her as having a strong Christian image. They saw her as a pop singer with songs that felt fashionable.”
In 2003, Ho ventured into the American music market with the single Where Did Love Go?. It hit No.1 on Billboard’s dance breakout chart. Subsequent singles such as One With You and Without Love, both in 2004, and Gone in 2006, made it to No.1 on the Billboard Dance Chart. Tso says: “I thought the US dance singles were very forward-looking and had a lot of ideas in them.”
Ho’s decision to head West raised eyebrows in the local industry. Kang says: “The US was quite an eye-opening choice for people in the industry because no Asian artistes had been able to break into the market.”
Controversial: Ho collaborated with Wyclef Jean and musicians Tony Matterhorn and Elephant Man on her 2007 video for the song China Wine. In it the Singaporean singer adopted a geisha persona and was dressed sexily.
He estimates that it would take “a few million” dollars just to do a decent job of marketing an artiste, and that it could have cost “close to a million” to make the China Wine video.
That China Wine music video – a collaboration with Wyclef Jean from hip-hop group the Fugees, which came along in 2007 – had her adopting a persona she called Geisha and prancing about in a midriff-baring top and hot pants.
Teacher Jasmine Ho, 31, a church member since 2002, says: “When you’re in a different country, you have to follow the trend and appeal to the market. For an Asian to make it to music award ceremonies, she did Singapore proud.” She was referring to Ho walking the red carpet at the 46th Annual Grammy Awards in 2004.
There were also other music videos. At the start of the reggae-flavoured Mr Bill (2009), Sun Ho berates a cheating lover in Mandarin, while Fancy Free (2009) has her in dramatic get-ups which invite comparisons to Lady Gaga.
But it was the China Wine video that set tongues wagging. Homegrown music company Ocean Butterflies director Colin Goh says: “To use pop music to promote Christianity, I think, is fine. But there are many types of images you can adopt and that was so inappropriate to Christianity.” – The Straits Times, Singapore/Asia News Network
Career milestones
2002: Releases debut Mandarin album Sun With Love and album Sun*day.
2003: Releases Lonely Travel, a Mandarin album.
Where Did Love Go?, her debut English single, is No.1 on the US Billboard’s dance breakout chart.
Named Best-Selling Female Artiste Of The Year and wins Best-Selling Album Of The Year award for Sun*day at Singapore Hit Awards.
2004: English singles Without Love and One With You hit No.1 on the US Billboard Dance Chart.
Named Best-Selling Female Artiste Of The Year at Singapore Hit Awards.
2005: Ends Of The Earth is No.1 on UK Music Week Commercial Pop Chart.
2006: Gain is No.5 best-selling album of the year in Taiwan.
English single Gone hits No.1 on the US Billboard Dance Chart.
2007: Embrace is No.3 best-selling album of the year in Taiwan.
Causes stir with China Wine video.
2009: Releases Fancy Free, a single supposedly from forthcoming English album Cause A Ruckus. The album has yet to materialise.
It was published in Malaysia.
Sun Ho’s career has raised a few eyebrows since her debut in 2002.
FROM the start of her singing career, Ho Yeow Sun, or Sun Ho, stood out from the crowd because she was marketed as a pastor’s wife.
But by the time Ho was dirty dancing in the 2007 video for China Wine, the pastor’s wife label had long been set aside.
Her husband, Kong Hee, 47, is the founder of Singapore’s City Harvest Church. The couple have a seven-year-old son. Along with four others, Kong has been charged with conspiring to cheat the church in order to finance his wife’s music career.
The rise of Sun: In Kuala Lumpur for the launching of her debut Mandopop album Sun With Love in August 2002. – Filepic
Ho, 42, made her Mandopop debut with the album Sun With Love in 2002. In keeping with her then wholesome image, the album cover is a close-up of her barely made-up face, complete with freckles. Singapore’s Radio 100.3 vice-president Anna Lim says of the religious connection: “That was her selling point – something for people to remember and talk about.”
Even then, the album was not overtly religious.
Xiaohan, 38, who wrote the lyrics for Andersen on that record, recalls: “The direction given to the songwriters was that it was to be an album about love of all kinds, and that you could perceive it as love of God or love for your other half. But we knew she was a pastor’s wife.”
The lyricist says the songwriters were told that the songs ought not to hard-sell Christianity, but should sound like “regular commercial songs”. Ho’s popularity rocketed with the subsequent release of Sun*day in 2002 and Lonely Travel the year after.
Both albums sold more than 30,000 copies each in Singapore, estimates Warner Music marketing director James Kang. A top-selling artiste would sell at least this number of copies.
Sun*day won the Best Selling Album Of The Year accolade at the Singapore Hit Awards in 2003, pipping popular acts such as Taiwan’s boy band 5566 and homegrown singer Stefanie Sun.
The group 5566 caused a stir by threatening to boycott the awards that year, alleging “unfair practice”. Their First Album, released in 2002, had sold close to 50,000 copies and the group had expected to pick up the trophy for best-selling album.
Music industry insiders say Ho’s popularity was in part driven by extensive marketing. Lim says: “When she released her first album, she bought programmes to appear on the station to promote herself. It’s quite rare for singers to buy programmes; usually the record companies do it.”
Ho’s fourth and fifth Mandarin albums, distributed by Warner, fared less well in Singapore. Kang estimates that Gain (2006) and Embrace (2007) sold between 5,000 and 10,000 copies each in the city-state.
Kang says that for the earlier albums, Ho was concentrating her efforts locally “to achieve the highest sales and greatest exposure she could get”.
But from her second album Sun*day on, she shifted her attention to Taiwan. Taiwanese radio deejay Tso Kuang-ping, 30, recalls Ho doing really well in Taiwan about seven years ago. Her songs were being sung in karaoke sessions and her albums topped the sales charts. Lonely Travel, released in 2003, as well as Gain and Embrace all went to No.1 in Taiwan on the authoritative G-Music Mandarin album chart.
Tso says: “In Taiwan, people did not see her as having a strong Christian image. They saw her as a pop singer with songs that felt fashionable.”
In 2003, Ho ventured into the American music market with the single Where Did Love Go?. It hit No.1 on Billboard’s dance breakout chart. Subsequent singles such as One With You and Without Love, both in 2004, and Gone in 2006, made it to No.1 on the Billboard Dance Chart. Tso says: “I thought the US dance singles were very forward-looking and had a lot of ideas in them.”
Ho’s decision to head West raised eyebrows in the local industry. Kang says: “The US was quite an eye-opening choice for people in the industry because no Asian artistes had been able to break into the market.”
Controversial: Ho collaborated with Wyclef Jean and musicians Tony Matterhorn and Elephant Man on her 2007 video for the song China Wine. In it the Singaporean singer adopted a geisha persona and was dressed sexily.
He estimates that it would take “a few million” dollars just to do a decent job of marketing an artiste, and that it could have cost “close to a million” to make the China Wine video.
That China Wine music video – a collaboration with Wyclef Jean from hip-hop group the Fugees, which came along in 2007 – had her adopting a persona she called Geisha and prancing about in a midriff-baring top and hot pants.
Teacher Jasmine Ho, 31, a church member since 2002, says: “When you’re in a different country, you have to follow the trend and appeal to the market. For an Asian to make it to music award ceremonies, she did Singapore proud.” She was referring to Ho walking the red carpet at the 46th Annual Grammy Awards in 2004.
There were also other music videos. At the start of the reggae-flavoured Mr Bill (2009), Sun Ho berates a cheating lover in Mandarin, while Fancy Free (2009) has her in dramatic get-ups which invite comparisons to Lady Gaga.
But it was the China Wine video that set tongues wagging. Homegrown music company Ocean Butterflies director Colin Goh says: “To use pop music to promote Christianity, I think, is fine. But there are many types of images you can adopt and that was so inappropriate to Christianity.” – The Straits Times, Singapore/Asia News Network
Career milestones
2002: Releases debut Mandarin album Sun With Love and album Sun*day.
2003: Releases Lonely Travel, a Mandarin album.
Where Did Love Go?, her debut English single, is No.1 on the US Billboard’s dance breakout chart.
Named Best-Selling Female Artiste Of The Year and wins Best-Selling Album Of The Year award for Sun*day at Singapore Hit Awards.
2004: English singles Without Love and One With You hit No.1 on the US Billboard Dance Chart.
Named Best-Selling Female Artiste Of The Year at Singapore Hit Awards.
2005: Ends Of The Earth is No.1 on UK Music Week Commercial Pop Chart.
2006: Gain is No.5 best-selling album of the year in Taiwan.
English single Gone hits No.1 on the US Billboard Dance Chart.
2007: Embrace is No.3 best-selling album of the year in Taiwan.
Causes stir with China Wine video.
2009: Releases Fancy Free, a single supposedly from forthcoming English album Cause A Ruckus. The album has yet to materialise.
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Haagen Diaz
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Discussions with Frankie Lee | Was Jesus Poor?
Very interesting argument. Please click this link above. Thks.
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/9-reason-he-wore-good-clothes/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/8-reason-he-had-his-own-house/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...ared-for-the-poor-and-regularly-gave-to-them/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/6-reason-he-never-considered-himself-poor/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/25/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/4-reason-jesus-generously-fed-the-hungry/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...was-able-to-pay-for-his-entire-ministry-team/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...sus-had-many-wealthy-partners-supporting-him/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/hello-world/
Very interesting argument. Please click this link above. Thks.
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/9-reason-he-wore-good-clothes/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/8-reason-he-had-his-own-house/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...ared-for-the-poor-and-regularly-gave-to-them/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/6-reason-he-never-considered-himself-poor/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/05/25/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/4-reason-jesus-generously-fed-the-hungry/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...was-able-to-pay-for-his-entire-ministry-team/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2...sus-had-many-wealthy-partners-supporting-him/
http://wasjesuspoor.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/hello-world/
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I wonder when will the court start? I can't wait to hear the other side of KH's story.
So long!!!!
The hearing date has not been decided yet. Now still at pre-trail conference stage !
TGG lah!
Haagen Diaz
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Pastor CON tHEE
The rabbit hole is deeper than you think
In truth, the rabbit hole is deeper than what many think. Roland Poon isn’t the only one who alleged that Ho’s musical career was funded by the church then.
Way back in 2002 – 2003, Jarrod** (not his real name) was a section commander in his army unit. One of the men under his charge was a member of City Harvest church. One day, during lunch time, this serviceman jokingly asked if Jarrod minded treating him. Jarrod was coming to the end of his national service term (ORD), and it wasn’t unusual for ORDing servicemen to treat their men or superiors alike. Jarrod treated him to lunch.
Two days later, the same serviceman asked Jarrod if he minded paying for his lunch again. Being the nice section commander that he was, Jarrod paid for the lunch, but the fact that the same serviceman asked him to pay for his lunch twice raised some suspicions.
He took the serviceman aside and asked if he had any financial difficulties. Jarrod soon learnt that this serviceman pledged to donate 80% of his monthly allowance (an allowance that the Singapore Armed Forces pays every serviceman, according to rank and vocation) to his church. When asked why he pledged such a large amount, the serviceman shrugged his shoulders and explained that it was the standard amount that the people in his church group would contribute.
Urging the serviceman to make a lesser contribution given his situation, Jarrod found that there was nothing the former could do about it. He feared ostracization by his group. The group, Jarrod found, comprised members from the serviceman’s age group, and they were all pledging donations to the church at that range.
Intrigued, Jarrod decided to do some investigations on his own. He wanted to know how members of a church such as City Harvest are willing to part with that much money to donate to it. Jarrod decided to gatecrash City Harvest together with some friends.
It was at City Harvest that Jarrod discovered about Ho and her music albums. Speaking to random strangers and observing activities aimed at promoting Ho, he concluded that resources were directed at promoting Ho’s albums.
Disturbed, he decided to join a Christian chatroom on the Internet Relay Chat (IRC) network, the prominent social media at that point of time (2002 – 2003). It was in one of the Christian chatrooms that Jarrod brought up the possibility of City Harvest directing resources towards promoting Ho’s singing career.
Jarrod was promptly disavowed, and he was accused of “doing the works of the Devil” by causing divisions among Christians. He was subsequently kicked out of the chatroom and banned. However, the ban can be circumvented if one has a dynamic IP address. Jarrod rebooted his Internet and rejoined the chatroom.
He privately messaged members of the Christian chatroom and enquired about the operators who managed it. Operators had the right to kick/ban users from the chatroom. He learnt that the bulk of operators came from charismatic churches.
One disturbing thing that he found was that the bots of the chatroom (bots are like operators of the chatroom, they can perform a variety of functions, like find out the other channels that a user is simultaneously on, also known as the “whois” function, and they can also kick/ban users if they typed vulgarities in the main channel) tended to ban users joining the channel who had also joined another channel known as “sgboys”. Sgboys is predominantly a gay channel. It was among the list of banned channels in that Christian chatroom. Another disturbing thing that he learnt was that at one point of time, channels belonging to that of other religions like Buddhism were previously banned.
Jarrod persevered and tried to raise up the topic of City Harvest again. This time, he not only got a kick/ban from the operator, but at the same time, received a message from an irate user threatening legal action. He never returned to the chatroom again.
In a sense, there are important things that we can glean from Jarrod’s experience, who made the same allegation of the devotion of City Harvest’s resources to promote Ho’s singing career around the same time as Roland Poon.
Accountability is important, but draconian practices could be adopted to quash debate on the topic or whistleblowers. An example of this was Jarrod’s kick/ban from the chatroom. Such draconian practices could also involve more subtle means. Group leaders wield much influence within their group, and those with dissenting opinions would ultimately be swayed by group pressure to tow the line. It is precisely the same peer pressure mechanism that resulted in Jarrod’s man pledging much of his national service allowance to his church. The same could have happened to Roland, where he could have been pressured by the group to recant on his views. He subsequently issued his apologies in 4 of our national papers.
In a way, this very much represents the intolerant stance towards critics and attempts at silencing them. The other problem lies in the popularity of pastors like Kong Hee per se. Such individuals with gifted oratorical skills can exert such a grip over a segment of their audiences that they come to perceive such clergymen as “god-like” and “above criticism”. And those who defer to such pastoral authority cannot tolerate criticisms aimed at the pastor they hold in high esteem. To criticise the pastor is to criticise them. It is little wonder, some sceptical Christians comment on whether these people have gotten their priorities right, in terms of rightfully worshipping God, instead of a man (pastor). This also explained why Jarrod got the threat of legal action, obviously someone who was incensed at his criticism of Kong Hee, whom he held in high esteem.
Another question is whether Jarrod’s experience represented a sociological snapshot of the charismatic Christian community’s attitudes (operators of the chatroom, as you recall are predominantly charismatic Christians). It is indeed worrying that the Buddhism channel was at one time a banned channel, as was the same for SgBoys, a gay channel. Yet years later, we learn of senior pastors of charismatic churches like Derek Hong and Rony Tan demonstrating intolerant attitudes towards gays and Buddhism respectively.
A new normal
Will there be a new normal as to how church staff run their churches after the news on charges levelled at Kong Hee and his accomplices surfaced? More specifically, will we see churches being run with more accountability, transparency and truthfulness with regards to use of church funds that will be readily accessible by the congregation?
We indeed live in different times. There are good Christians leading exemplary lives, but it seems for some, the 10 commandments aren’t enough. I have two more good ones to suggest.
11. Thou shalt be merciful to thy critics. Lend them a listening ear, and reflect.
12. Thou shalt be truthful, accountable and transparent to not only Me, but also thy church and congregation.
This twelfth commandment is more appropriate to the likes of Pastor Con tHee, ooops sorry, Kong Hee.
The rabbit hole is deeper than you think
In truth, the rabbit hole is deeper than what many think. Roland Poon isn’t the only one who alleged that Ho’s musical career was funded by the church then.
Way back in 2002 – 2003, Jarrod** (not his real name) was a section commander in his army unit. One of the men under his charge was a member of City Harvest church. One day, during lunch time, this serviceman jokingly asked if Jarrod minded treating him. Jarrod was coming to the end of his national service term (ORD), and it wasn’t unusual for ORDing servicemen to treat their men or superiors alike. Jarrod treated him to lunch.
Two days later, the same serviceman asked Jarrod if he minded paying for his lunch again. Being the nice section commander that he was, Jarrod paid for the lunch, but the fact that the same serviceman asked him to pay for his lunch twice raised some suspicions.
He took the serviceman aside and asked if he had any financial difficulties. Jarrod soon learnt that this serviceman pledged to donate 80% of his monthly allowance (an allowance that the Singapore Armed Forces pays every serviceman, according to rank and vocation) to his church. When asked why he pledged such a large amount, the serviceman shrugged his shoulders and explained that it was the standard amount that the people in his church group would contribute.
Urging the serviceman to make a lesser contribution given his situation, Jarrod found that there was nothing the former could do about it. He feared ostracization by his group. The group, Jarrod found, comprised members from the serviceman’s age group, and they were all pledging donations to the church at that range.
Intrigued, Jarrod decided to do some investigations on his own. He wanted to know how members of a church such as City Harvest are willing to part with that much money to donate to it. Jarrod decided to gatecrash City Harvest together with some friends.
It was at City Harvest that Jarrod discovered about Ho and her music albums. Speaking to random strangers and observing activities aimed at promoting Ho, he concluded that resources were directed at promoting Ho’s albums.
Disturbed, he decided to join a Christian chatroom on the Internet Relay Chat (IRC) network, the prominent social media at that point of time (2002 – 2003). It was in one of the Christian chatrooms that Jarrod brought up the possibility of City Harvest directing resources towards promoting Ho’s singing career.
Jarrod was promptly disavowed, and he was accused of “doing the works of the Devil” by causing divisions among Christians. He was subsequently kicked out of the chatroom and banned. However, the ban can be circumvented if one has a dynamic IP address. Jarrod rebooted his Internet and rejoined the chatroom.
He privately messaged members of the Christian chatroom and enquired about the operators who managed it. Operators had the right to kick/ban users from the chatroom. He learnt that the bulk of operators came from charismatic churches.
One disturbing thing that he found was that the bots of the chatroom (bots are like operators of the chatroom, they can perform a variety of functions, like find out the other channels that a user is simultaneously on, also known as the “whois” function, and they can also kick/ban users if they typed vulgarities in the main channel) tended to ban users joining the channel who had also joined another channel known as “sgboys”. Sgboys is predominantly a gay channel. It was among the list of banned channels in that Christian chatroom. Another disturbing thing that he learnt was that at one point of time, channels belonging to that of other religions like Buddhism were previously banned.
Jarrod persevered and tried to raise up the topic of City Harvest again. This time, he not only got a kick/ban from the operator, but at the same time, received a message from an irate user threatening legal action. He never returned to the chatroom again.
In a sense, there are important things that we can glean from Jarrod’s experience, who made the same allegation of the devotion of City Harvest’s resources to promote Ho’s singing career around the same time as Roland Poon.
Accountability is important, but draconian practices could be adopted to quash debate on the topic or whistleblowers. An example of this was Jarrod’s kick/ban from the chatroom. Such draconian practices could also involve more subtle means. Group leaders wield much influence within their group, and those with dissenting opinions would ultimately be swayed by group pressure to tow the line. It is precisely the same peer pressure mechanism that resulted in Jarrod’s man pledging much of his national service allowance to his church. The same could have happened to Roland, where he could have been pressured by the group to recant on his views. He subsequently issued his apologies in 4 of our national papers.
In a way, this very much represents the intolerant stance towards critics and attempts at silencing them. The other problem lies in the popularity of pastors like Kong Hee per se. Such individuals with gifted oratorical skills can exert such a grip over a segment of their audiences that they come to perceive such clergymen as “god-like” and “above criticism”. And those who defer to such pastoral authority cannot tolerate criticisms aimed at the pastor they hold in high esteem. To criticise the pastor is to criticise them. It is little wonder, some sceptical Christians comment on whether these people have gotten their priorities right, in terms of rightfully worshipping God, instead of a man (pastor). This also explained why Jarrod got the threat of legal action, obviously someone who was incensed at his criticism of Kong Hee, whom he held in high esteem.
Another question is whether Jarrod’s experience represented a sociological snapshot of the charismatic Christian community’s attitudes (operators of the chatroom, as you recall are predominantly charismatic Christians). It is indeed worrying that the Buddhism channel was at one time a banned channel, as was the same for SgBoys, a gay channel. Yet years later, we learn of senior pastors of charismatic churches like Derek Hong and Rony Tan demonstrating intolerant attitudes towards gays and Buddhism respectively.
A new normal
Will there be a new normal as to how church staff run their churches after the news on charges levelled at Kong Hee and his accomplices surfaced? More specifically, will we see churches being run with more accountability, transparency and truthfulness with regards to use of church funds that will be readily accessible by the congregation?
We indeed live in different times. There are good Christians leading exemplary lives, but it seems for some, the 10 commandments aren’t enough. I have two more good ones to suggest.
11. Thou shalt be merciful to thy critics. Lend them a listening ear, and reflect.
12. Thou shalt be truthful, accountable and transparent to not only Me, but also thy church and congregation.
This twelfth commandment is more appropriate to the likes of Pastor Con tHee, ooops sorry, Kong Hee.
Haagen Diaz
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Messages
- 251
- Reaction score
- 0
Yapdates: A Spiritual Odyssey: Five Responses to Consider (CHC Arrests)
The big news in Singapore is the arrest of key leaders, including Kong Hee, the founder of City Harvest Church, a Singapore Megachurch established in 1989. They have been charged with financial mismanagement and fraud. Arguably the single largest church in Singapore, it boasts an attendance of more than 23000 people weekly. I have attended the church meetings before, and am amazed at the vibrancy of the people, but also the huge proportion of young people. If you are to do a search on Twitter or Google, it is common to see CHC supporters expressing wholehearted allegiance to the leadership and the Church. These are the die-hard supporters. Some may even behave as if the church has been persecuted.
On the other hand, many others in the public have thrown in heaps of sarcasm and cynicism on the Church. One popular blogger, XiaXue feels "disgusted" about the "amount of deluded people praying for Kong Hee." Anger and disgust appear to be the general sentiment of the day among those outside the Church.
My blogger friend, currently based in Singapore has kindly reproduced his professor, Dr Daniel Koh's prompt response for the Christian community to consider. In a nutshell, the writer urges restraint for both groups of people mentioned above. To the first group who are pro-supporters, he suggests refraining from blind faith. To the second group who are aggressively condemning the leaders, the CHC members, he recommends suspending judgment to let justice flows its natural course. He then points all to learn to pray for all parties affected or involved in the whole process.
Like Dr Koh, I am similarly concerned for many of the younger believers in City Harvest Church. There will be repercussions. There will be a general mood of despondency among many. There will also be additional salt added to the wounds by insensitive people who behave as if they themselves are on a higher moral ground to judge.
While it is important to remember that one is innocent until proven guilty, it is fair to say that something has gone horribly wrong in the financial aspect of the Church. Whether we fault the person or persons, the organization or its poor financial transparency, or the overall investigative process, I want to focus on the assumption that the worst case is true, that the 5 leaders arrested are guilty as charged. The difference is in terms of the extent to which the charges are true. Having done that, I will suggest some way forward for any genuinely concerned or interested member of the Christian community. I will base my meditation on how King David was found out in his adultery and murder, and how he coped with it. It is important to note that while the crimes committed are different, there are teaching moments about how to cope.
Remember, the following is based on an ASSUMPTION that the charges are true. I make no final judgment on the arrests, but merely want to pose responses based on this position.
1) Call a Spade a Spade
First, the prophet Nathan helped to open the eyes of King David to his sin (2 Samuel 12:1-12). Instead of fighting back, see how David responded.
"Then David said to Nathan, 'I have sinned against the LORD.'" (2 Samuel 12:13a)
David recognized his sin. Instead of hiding, he admitted it. Even the smallest sin is still a sin. The Bible says that all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Before a Holy God, the smallest speck of sin is still sin. For those of us who argue that small sins are nothing compared to big sins, they have totally missed the significance of purity and holiness. Call a spade a spade, and stop any devilish forces from tempting us toward self-deception.
2) Suspend Judgment
I agree with Dr Daniel Koh that until investigations are complete and the courts have determined the results, we ought to suspend judgment with regards to the case. This means both ways. The pro-supporters need to suspend judgment about how "right" or how "innocent" their leaders are. It is one thing to support leaders. It is yet another to apply blind faith. The vociferous accusers and sarcastic corners of the public will also need to suspend their judgment, lest they themselves are guilty of casting the first stone. Look at Nathan's reply.
Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die." (2 Samuel 12:13b)
If there is any judgment to be made, it is definitely not us distant observers. The responsibility and the ultimate Judge is God.
3) Truth Must Be Told
Whenever we read news from the media, we cannot base our entire opinion on one single piece of news. For that matter, there are also multiple news outlets, social media, and foreign reporting as well. Which do we believe? Who is speaking the truth? Remember that every piece of news material is biased to some degree. Even if we can gather all the available news material, it is still second-hand news.
Have we seen the evidence first hand?
Have we heard the confessions of the five leaders charged?
Have we understood and analyzed the information gathered from the investigators?
Have we any privy knowledge of what is actually happening, the background etc?
Truth must be told. Yet, it is not easy to get at truth. This is why we will need to be open and let any opinion or mini-conclusion be always a qualified one. See the judgment of God meted out, and see how truth is matched by action.
"But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die.” (2 Samuel 12:14)
God is honoured when truth is revealed. Granted that David's admission of guilt has brought along harsh punishment, the important thing is when truth is revealed, the path to righteousness is lighted up. However, before that can happen, punishment needs to take its course. The painful one is the death of David's firstborn son.
4) Learn From Mistakes
David's remorse is evident from the Psalms he writes, especially in Psalm 51:1-2. The admission of guilt and the plea for mercy is nothing less than amazing. It is not justifying one's deeds, but seeking God's mercy. Unreservedly and totally.
Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.
While this is the response of David, the rest of us need to learn how to pray as well. The story of the Pharisee and the tax collector is an appropriate lesson for us to learn.
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
(Luke 18:9-13)
Those of us looking in from outside, are we to behave like the Pharisee, or to seek mercy like the tax collector. This is perhaps the key response tip for all of us. The CHC arrests need to make us look to behave more like the tax collector, that we recognize our own sin and weaknesses. That we do not put ourselves higher than the people at CHC. At the same time, we need to warn ourselves against any acts of self-righteousness like the Pharisee. For instance, not being arrested like the five men, does not mean we can tell everyone,
"Thank God I am not like them!"
God forbid! We are sinners and all of us are capable of doing the wrongs that have been charged. No one is immune from wrongdoing. We need mercy. We need grace. In the same way, we need to show mercy and grace to others.
5) The Gospel Must Still Be Preached - Start CLEAN
Finally, I want to acknowledge that the reputation of CHC and even for the Church at large will be negatively affected, at least for a while. We cannot run away from it. We can only pray, seek forgiveness, learn, and do our best to be competent and ethical in what we do. No one is immune from sin but everyone is capable of honouring God with doing the right thing. Let me suggest five things.
First, Comfort One Another. See how David goes to comfort his distraught wife, Bathsheba. Even though they have committed adultery, they are still people who need love and comfort. As a Christian community, we can comfort one another by praying, and by seeking to do all the good we can, in spite of all the bad that we are hearing.
Second, be always Learning. What has happened to CHC does not mean it will not happen to any other churches.
Third, Encourage one another to improve our own systems of governance. If there are weaknesses, do our best to implement checks and balances. If there are any wrongdoing by anyone, stop. Repent. Correct.
Four, Accept one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. Family members do not disown one another simply because one has committed a crime. A family is a family. We rejoice together, we grieve together, we serve together. Like Jesus said, the world will know we are His disciples through our love for one another.
Five, Need for God. May this be a time for which all Christians will turn to God in a more intensive way. We tell others that they need God, now is a time for us to demonstrate with our own lives that we ourselves need God.
Be comforting, be learning, be encouraging, be accepting, and be needful of God. Together, they form the acronym CLEAN. Through CLEAN, may the gospel be preached with our lives that are filled with grace toward one another.
Praying for mercy beginning with myself.
Conrade Yap (Dr)
The big news in Singapore is the arrest of key leaders, including Kong Hee, the founder of City Harvest Church, a Singapore Megachurch established in 1989. They have been charged with financial mismanagement and fraud. Arguably the single largest church in Singapore, it boasts an attendance of more than 23000 people weekly. I have attended the church meetings before, and am amazed at the vibrancy of the people, but also the huge proportion of young people. If you are to do a search on Twitter or Google, it is common to see CHC supporters expressing wholehearted allegiance to the leadership and the Church. These are the die-hard supporters. Some may even behave as if the church has been persecuted.
On the other hand, many others in the public have thrown in heaps of sarcasm and cynicism on the Church. One popular blogger, XiaXue feels "disgusted" about the "amount of deluded people praying for Kong Hee." Anger and disgust appear to be the general sentiment of the day among those outside the Church.
My blogger friend, currently based in Singapore has kindly reproduced his professor, Dr Daniel Koh's prompt response for the Christian community to consider. In a nutshell, the writer urges restraint for both groups of people mentioned above. To the first group who are pro-supporters, he suggests refraining from blind faith. To the second group who are aggressively condemning the leaders, the CHC members, he recommends suspending judgment to let justice flows its natural course. He then points all to learn to pray for all parties affected or involved in the whole process.
Like Dr Koh, I am similarly concerned for many of the younger believers in City Harvest Church. There will be repercussions. There will be a general mood of despondency among many. There will also be additional salt added to the wounds by insensitive people who behave as if they themselves are on a higher moral ground to judge.
While it is important to remember that one is innocent until proven guilty, it is fair to say that something has gone horribly wrong in the financial aspect of the Church. Whether we fault the person or persons, the organization or its poor financial transparency, or the overall investigative process, I want to focus on the assumption that the worst case is true, that the 5 leaders arrested are guilty as charged. The difference is in terms of the extent to which the charges are true. Having done that, I will suggest some way forward for any genuinely concerned or interested member of the Christian community. I will base my meditation on how King David was found out in his adultery and murder, and how he coped with it. It is important to note that while the crimes committed are different, there are teaching moments about how to cope.
Remember, the following is based on an ASSUMPTION that the charges are true. I make no final judgment on the arrests, but merely want to pose responses based on this position.
1) Call a Spade a Spade
First, the prophet Nathan helped to open the eyes of King David to his sin (2 Samuel 12:1-12). Instead of fighting back, see how David responded.
"Then David said to Nathan, 'I have sinned against the LORD.'" (2 Samuel 12:13a)
David recognized his sin. Instead of hiding, he admitted it. Even the smallest sin is still a sin. The Bible says that all of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Before a Holy God, the smallest speck of sin is still sin. For those of us who argue that small sins are nothing compared to big sins, they have totally missed the significance of purity and holiness. Call a spade a spade, and stop any devilish forces from tempting us toward self-deception.
2) Suspend Judgment
I agree with Dr Daniel Koh that until investigations are complete and the courts have determined the results, we ought to suspend judgment with regards to the case. This means both ways. The pro-supporters need to suspend judgment about how "right" or how "innocent" their leaders are. It is one thing to support leaders. It is yet another to apply blind faith. The vociferous accusers and sarcastic corners of the public will also need to suspend their judgment, lest they themselves are guilty of casting the first stone. Look at Nathan's reply.
Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die." (2 Samuel 12:13b)
If there is any judgment to be made, it is definitely not us distant observers. The responsibility and the ultimate Judge is God.
3) Truth Must Be Told
Whenever we read news from the media, we cannot base our entire opinion on one single piece of news. For that matter, there are also multiple news outlets, social media, and foreign reporting as well. Which do we believe? Who is speaking the truth? Remember that every piece of news material is biased to some degree. Even if we can gather all the available news material, it is still second-hand news.
Have we seen the evidence first hand?
Have we heard the confessions of the five leaders charged?
Have we understood and analyzed the information gathered from the investigators?
Have we any privy knowledge of what is actually happening, the background etc?
Truth must be told. Yet, it is not easy to get at truth. This is why we will need to be open and let any opinion or mini-conclusion be always a qualified one. See the judgment of God meted out, and see how truth is matched by action.
"But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die.” (2 Samuel 12:14)
God is honoured when truth is revealed. Granted that David's admission of guilt has brought along harsh punishment, the important thing is when truth is revealed, the path to righteousness is lighted up. However, before that can happen, punishment needs to take its course. The painful one is the death of David's firstborn son.
4) Learn From Mistakes
David's remorse is evident from the Psalms he writes, especially in Psalm 51:1-2. The admission of guilt and the plea for mercy is nothing less than amazing. It is not justifying one's deeds, but seeking God's mercy. Unreservedly and totally.
Have mercy on me, O God, according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion blot out my transgressions.
Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.
While this is the response of David, the rest of us need to learn how to pray as well. The story of the Pharisee and the tax collector is an appropriate lesson for us to learn.
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
(Luke 18:9-13)
Those of us looking in from outside, are we to behave like the Pharisee, or to seek mercy like the tax collector. This is perhaps the key response tip for all of us. The CHC arrests need to make us look to behave more like the tax collector, that we recognize our own sin and weaknesses. That we do not put ourselves higher than the people at CHC. At the same time, we need to warn ourselves against any acts of self-righteousness like the Pharisee. For instance, not being arrested like the five men, does not mean we can tell everyone,
"Thank God I am not like them!"
God forbid! We are sinners and all of us are capable of doing the wrongs that have been charged. No one is immune from wrongdoing. We need mercy. We need grace. In the same way, we need to show mercy and grace to others.
5) The Gospel Must Still Be Preached - Start CLEAN
Finally, I want to acknowledge that the reputation of CHC and even for the Church at large will be negatively affected, at least for a while. We cannot run away from it. We can only pray, seek forgiveness, learn, and do our best to be competent and ethical in what we do. No one is immune from sin but everyone is capable of honouring God with doing the right thing. Let me suggest five things.
First, Comfort One Another. See how David goes to comfort his distraught wife, Bathsheba. Even though they have committed adultery, they are still people who need love and comfort. As a Christian community, we can comfort one another by praying, and by seeking to do all the good we can, in spite of all the bad that we are hearing.
Second, be always Learning. What has happened to CHC does not mean it will not happen to any other churches.
Third, Encourage one another to improve our own systems of governance. If there are weaknesses, do our best to implement checks and balances. If there are any wrongdoing by anyone, stop. Repent. Correct.
Four, Accept one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. Family members do not disown one another simply because one has committed a crime. A family is a family. We rejoice together, we grieve together, we serve together. Like Jesus said, the world will know we are His disciples through our love for one another.
Five, Need for God. May this be a time for which all Christians will turn to God in a more intensive way. We tell others that they need God, now is a time for us to demonstrate with our own lives that we ourselves need God.
Be comforting, be learning, be encouraging, be accepting, and be needful of God. Together, they form the acronym CLEAN. Through CLEAN, may the gospel be preached with our lives that are filled with grace toward one another.
Praying for mercy beginning with myself.
Conrade Yap (Dr)
Haagen Diaz
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
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- 251
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THE POTATO TIMES - City Harvest Church Scandal
City Harvest Church Scandal
Recently, one of Singapore’s biggest mega churches made news for the wrong reasons, when 5 of its leaders were arrested after a 2-year police investigation, which found at least $23 million in church funds misused. Kong Hee, the charismatic founder of City Harvest Church, as well as four others, were arrested on suspicion of using church contributions to finance the music career of his wife, pop singer Ho Yeow Sun, over 3 years, from 2007 to 2010. Allegedly, the church’s executive members were unaware of this, and had insisted repeatedly in public that it has not funded Ho’s career. DPM Teo Chee Hean was also very quick to issue a statement, given the prominence of the Christian community in Singapore, that the charges filed by Commercial Affairs Department were against the individuals, and not against the church itself.
Though the trials have not started and one is assumed innocent unless proven otherwise, it is common knowledge that the police usually only acts upon strong incriminating evidence. Nevertheless, thousands of comments have poured onto Kong’s public facebook page in support of him and his wife. Many stood by him, saying things like ‘We trust in you and will stand by your side’, ‘We will support you, have faith in god’, ‘Your love reaches me’, and no less ‘Thank you for your sacrifice!’. Another friend posted on her page this –
“ I've got a friend who asked me this question today after the news broke out:
"so how much have you given to the church"?
I replied "thousands of dollars which I cannot count".
But I forgot to add on & I am doing it now - "that I also receive millions of blessings from God; my pastors & CHC which I cannot deny."
O Lord, part the red sea for us today! Deliver us! “
If that is not considered blind faith, I do not know what is.
Do not get me wrong. I have nothing against Christianity, and rightly so. Back in my JC days when I started thinking hard about the meaning of life, I developed many unorthodox theories about religions, and how the world at large operates in multi-dimensions. None of it involves writing down any religion or belief. I have gone to different Christian and Catholic churches, joined close-knitted cell groups, experienced for myself how an almost 500-strong audience in an auditorium speaking tongues in unison feels like (trust me, it’s very overwhelming), read the bible each day to understand it better, for a period of time. There is an especially interesting conversation I remember I had with a pastor, 1-on-1.
It started out as an attempt to convince me using scientific means (knowing I am more skeptical than other church-goers and that I am more empirical and evidence driven – a coincidental good assumption based on the fact that he knew I was an Engineering undergrad), using historical findings of wooden structures of known dimensions found on a high mountain for instance (suggesting a logical inference that there was indeed a flood that runs through Earth a long time ago, further suggesting the possibility of Noah’s Ark). One conversation (rather meaningless on hindsight) went like this:
Pastor: You believe in science and physics don’t you?
Me: Yes.
Pastor: Do you believe there is a maker behind this? (pointing to a chair)
Me: Yes.
Pastor: How about the respective parts? The plastic seat, the metal legs, the paint, etc?
Me: Yes.
Pastor: Now can you imagine extending the principle to all creations of this world, including mankind?
Me: Yes?
Pastor: Can you now see there must be a Creator then?
Me: If I were to follow your logic, who created the Creator then? Why are the rules not applicable here? Doesn’t it not make sense that there is an unknown exception here? Why so?
Pastor: Cos God is the Creator? He doesn’t need someone to create him?
(Coincidentally, this was linked to one of the unorthodox theories that I was thinking about during my JC days)
The thing is - There were many other questions which I didn’t quite get good answers, though there were others that were addressed adequately, but that’s the beauty of theories and beliefs (or is it?) Different individuals usually dissect and interpret different verses and teachings differently, due to the development of various languages, races, religions, practices, and even factions within the same (Christian) religions with time (The story of the Tower of Babylon offers the reasons why, but instead I ask more why’s when I heard about it) The queer but accepted fact is that the root of all assumptions and theories lie in the word ‘faith’. But the stranger fact and observation to me is that many more individuals extend the concept of ‘faith’ to anything that baffles them, even in areas where it may clearly lie in the realm of logical inferences that may be deduced rationally.
This is not the first time that City Harvest Church is in public spotlight. Back in 2010, CHC announced a $310 million investment in Suntec. Details were kept secretive on grounds of a non-disclosure agreement with the consortium, even though church members wrote in demanding to know how the money is being spent. Many people are alarmed at the financial prowess that a church is capable of, with many more questioning the framework of transparency that such public institutions operate under. Some expressed discontent and disappointment. On the other side I recalled similarly many more vocalists posted their support online, to the extent of some of them being very openly defensive.
Some people have started calling CHC a cult. Is CHC a cult? According to Dictionary.com, a cult is:
a. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
b. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
c. the object of such devotion.
d. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
e. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
Based on these broad definitions, it would appear then that all religions would appear cultish. If we were to rely on TheFreeDictionary.com instead, a cult is defined as:
a1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
a2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
b. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
c. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
d. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
e1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
e2. The object of such devotion.
f. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest
By definition e1, is the devotion to Kong obsessive and faddish? I believe it definitely is. Faddish means being intensely fashionable for a short time, and I believe that effectively safely excludes the reference to all religions aka ‘thing’, since they have been around for centuries. (hence this definition is validly useful)
From my limited understanding of Christianity, I do not remember there was any notion of selfless devotion to another fellow being. There is definitely a component of devotion to faith in a religion, or to a God, but I do not believe it is right that such veneration should extend to a fellow individual. I do not believe such faith rightly extends to accepting everything as being good so long as it comes from the right person (in this case a charismatic pastor cum leader), and that the person can do no wrong. And I hardly think that the prospect of committing a crime in the eyes of the law is considered ‘a great sacrifice’ and certainly do not warrant ‘we will stand by you’ in any way.
As a Catholic once told me in her own words, 'Every man has a price, no man is infallible. It is in the bible.'
Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem if everyone responsible with the donations are agreeable to the leaders using the funds in any way they deem fit, even if it is for their own use, despite the fact that it is a public institution. Well, they are willing parties right? If everyone feels that they have received an inordinate amount of blessings from the church (synonymous with the Pastor in many cases?), and their contribution is well spent, there is no problem right?
Unfortunately the problem is, I don’t think everyone is agreeable. To have regular church go-ers (who probably contributed to their church too) come out and ask for more accountability and transparency on the church funds is good enough testament to that. And I think it is a fair remark that not all church go-ers are in the know of what happens to their contributions, or perhaps even hold a different noble view of how it is dispensed altogether. I find it deplorable if certain more influential beings exploit their position of power to achieve their objectives unfairly, and even more pathetic when louder followers band together to vocalise their support for their perceived leader, especially if their leader has clearly done wrong in the eyes of the law. This is blind. I am especially cautious to post my true feelings onto such facebook postings these days, it is easier to get flamed even before we get to discuss the specifics.
Sometime back in May, there was this article being posted on City News – 10 years of the crossover project.
It was said:
“It was then that they realized that pop music could be a powerful bridge to communicate the love of God to the youth. What if they could repackage the message of faith, hope and love of Jesus Christ and bring it into the schools, the boardrooms and the bedrooms of the unchurched? At that time, it was unheard of for those in the Christian world to share the Gospel through the secular entertainment platform.”
How convenient. And I reckon it was already in the final stages of the investigation by May 2012. One probably does not even need to read the entire article to know where it’s leading to.
In another similar high profile case of corruption back in 2008, charges were brought against Buddhist monk Ming Yi, the chief of the Ren Ci Hospital and Medicare Centre. One cannot help but compare how both personas handled the event. I remembered reading the news and articles of the prosecution, and one particular news scene that I recalled was how Ming Yi walked in confidently in and out of the court, despite being charged for the criminal act. It was a major disappointment in what he did, truth be told. Yet it was a vastly different scene when I saw Kong over the TV news recently, where he was draped in a jacket, cap and sunglasses, and whisked off by a small entourage in a flashy car. No charming smile, no suave disposition, no confident poise that one sees of his delivery in his church. One cannot help but compare and come up with a different opinion of both men.
If Dalai Lama himself were to be involved in such a high profile corruption case one day, I wonder how would Buddhists react?
City Harvest Church Scandal
Recently, one of Singapore’s biggest mega churches made news for the wrong reasons, when 5 of its leaders were arrested after a 2-year police investigation, which found at least $23 million in church funds misused. Kong Hee, the charismatic founder of City Harvest Church, as well as four others, were arrested on suspicion of using church contributions to finance the music career of his wife, pop singer Ho Yeow Sun, over 3 years, from 2007 to 2010. Allegedly, the church’s executive members were unaware of this, and had insisted repeatedly in public that it has not funded Ho’s career. DPM Teo Chee Hean was also very quick to issue a statement, given the prominence of the Christian community in Singapore, that the charges filed by Commercial Affairs Department were against the individuals, and not against the church itself.
Though the trials have not started and one is assumed innocent unless proven otherwise, it is common knowledge that the police usually only acts upon strong incriminating evidence. Nevertheless, thousands of comments have poured onto Kong’s public facebook page in support of him and his wife. Many stood by him, saying things like ‘We trust in you and will stand by your side’, ‘We will support you, have faith in god’, ‘Your love reaches me’, and no less ‘Thank you for your sacrifice!’. Another friend posted on her page this –
“ I've got a friend who asked me this question today after the news broke out:
"so how much have you given to the church"?
I replied "thousands of dollars which I cannot count".
But I forgot to add on & I am doing it now - "that I also receive millions of blessings from God; my pastors & CHC which I cannot deny."
O Lord, part the red sea for us today! Deliver us! “
If that is not considered blind faith, I do not know what is.
Do not get me wrong. I have nothing against Christianity, and rightly so. Back in my JC days when I started thinking hard about the meaning of life, I developed many unorthodox theories about religions, and how the world at large operates in multi-dimensions. None of it involves writing down any religion or belief. I have gone to different Christian and Catholic churches, joined close-knitted cell groups, experienced for myself how an almost 500-strong audience in an auditorium speaking tongues in unison feels like (trust me, it’s very overwhelming), read the bible each day to understand it better, for a period of time. There is an especially interesting conversation I remember I had with a pastor, 1-on-1.
It started out as an attempt to convince me using scientific means (knowing I am more skeptical than other church-goers and that I am more empirical and evidence driven – a coincidental good assumption based on the fact that he knew I was an Engineering undergrad), using historical findings of wooden structures of known dimensions found on a high mountain for instance (suggesting a logical inference that there was indeed a flood that runs through Earth a long time ago, further suggesting the possibility of Noah’s Ark). One conversation (rather meaningless on hindsight) went like this:
Pastor: You believe in science and physics don’t you?
Me: Yes.
Pastor: Do you believe there is a maker behind this? (pointing to a chair)
Me: Yes.
Pastor: How about the respective parts? The plastic seat, the metal legs, the paint, etc?
Me: Yes.
Pastor: Now can you imagine extending the principle to all creations of this world, including mankind?
Me: Yes?
Pastor: Can you now see there must be a Creator then?
Me: If I were to follow your logic, who created the Creator then? Why are the rules not applicable here? Doesn’t it not make sense that there is an unknown exception here? Why so?
Pastor: Cos God is the Creator? He doesn’t need someone to create him?
(Coincidentally, this was linked to one of the unorthodox theories that I was thinking about during my JC days)
The thing is - There were many other questions which I didn’t quite get good answers, though there were others that were addressed adequately, but that’s the beauty of theories and beliefs (or is it?) Different individuals usually dissect and interpret different verses and teachings differently, due to the development of various languages, races, religions, practices, and even factions within the same (Christian) religions with time (The story of the Tower of Babylon offers the reasons why, but instead I ask more why’s when I heard about it) The queer but accepted fact is that the root of all assumptions and theories lie in the word ‘faith’. But the stranger fact and observation to me is that many more individuals extend the concept of ‘faith’ to anything that baffles them, even in areas where it may clearly lie in the realm of logical inferences that may be deduced rationally.
This is not the first time that City Harvest Church is in public spotlight. Back in 2010, CHC announced a $310 million investment in Suntec. Details were kept secretive on grounds of a non-disclosure agreement with the consortium, even though church members wrote in demanding to know how the money is being spent. Many people are alarmed at the financial prowess that a church is capable of, with many more questioning the framework of transparency that such public institutions operate under. Some expressed discontent and disappointment. On the other side I recalled similarly many more vocalists posted their support online, to the extent of some of them being very openly defensive.
Some people have started calling CHC a cult. Is CHC a cult? According to Dictionary.com, a cult is:
a. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
b. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
c. the object of such devotion.
d. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
e. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
Based on these broad definitions, it would appear then that all religions would appear cultish. If we were to rely on TheFreeDictionary.com instead, a cult is defined as:
a1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
a2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
b. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
c. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
d. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
e1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
e2. The object of such devotion.
f. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest
By definition e1, is the devotion to Kong obsessive and faddish? I believe it definitely is. Faddish means being intensely fashionable for a short time, and I believe that effectively safely excludes the reference to all religions aka ‘thing’, since they have been around for centuries. (hence this definition is validly useful)
From my limited understanding of Christianity, I do not remember there was any notion of selfless devotion to another fellow being. There is definitely a component of devotion to faith in a religion, or to a God, but I do not believe it is right that such veneration should extend to a fellow individual. I do not believe such faith rightly extends to accepting everything as being good so long as it comes from the right person (in this case a charismatic pastor cum leader), and that the person can do no wrong. And I hardly think that the prospect of committing a crime in the eyes of the law is considered ‘a great sacrifice’ and certainly do not warrant ‘we will stand by you’ in any way.
As a Catholic once told me in her own words, 'Every man has a price, no man is infallible. It is in the bible.'
Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem if everyone responsible with the donations are agreeable to the leaders using the funds in any way they deem fit, even if it is for their own use, despite the fact that it is a public institution. Well, they are willing parties right? If everyone feels that they have received an inordinate amount of blessings from the church (synonymous with the Pastor in many cases?), and their contribution is well spent, there is no problem right?
Unfortunately the problem is, I don’t think everyone is agreeable. To have regular church go-ers (who probably contributed to their church too) come out and ask for more accountability and transparency on the church funds is good enough testament to that. And I think it is a fair remark that not all church go-ers are in the know of what happens to their contributions, or perhaps even hold a different noble view of how it is dispensed altogether. I find it deplorable if certain more influential beings exploit their position of power to achieve their objectives unfairly, and even more pathetic when louder followers band together to vocalise their support for their perceived leader, especially if their leader has clearly done wrong in the eyes of the law. This is blind. I am especially cautious to post my true feelings onto such facebook postings these days, it is easier to get flamed even before we get to discuss the specifics.
Sometime back in May, there was this article being posted on City News – 10 years of the crossover project.
It was said:
“It was then that they realized that pop music could be a powerful bridge to communicate the love of God to the youth. What if they could repackage the message of faith, hope and love of Jesus Christ and bring it into the schools, the boardrooms and the bedrooms of the unchurched? At that time, it was unheard of for those in the Christian world to share the Gospel through the secular entertainment platform.”
How convenient. And I reckon it was already in the final stages of the investigation by May 2012. One probably does not even need to read the entire article to know where it’s leading to.
In another similar high profile case of corruption back in 2008, charges were brought against Buddhist monk Ming Yi, the chief of the Ren Ci Hospital and Medicare Centre. One cannot help but compare how both personas handled the event. I remembered reading the news and articles of the prosecution, and one particular news scene that I recalled was how Ming Yi walked in confidently in and out of the court, despite being charged for the criminal act. It was a major disappointment in what he did, truth be told. Yet it was a vastly different scene when I saw Kong over the TV news recently, where he was draped in a jacket, cap and sunglasses, and whisked off by a small entourage in a flashy car. No charming smile, no suave disposition, no confident poise that one sees of his delivery in his church. One cannot help but compare and come up with a different opinion of both men.
If Dalai Lama himself were to be involved in such a high profile corruption case one day, I wonder how would Buddhists react?
Haagen Diaz
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Convex Set: My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves
I was discussing the City Harvest Church (CHC) case with a colleague who is a non-Christian with a particular distaste for CHC. His view is that if one is trying to evangelize, one should at least know enough about the subject matter to answer simple questions. He said that the best answer he got out of CHC's "evangelists" was "I see you are very interested in this, why don't you come down and there will be people who will be able to discuss this further with you." More quick wit than substantive content, he declined.
I was pleasantly surprised that he was familiar with the above biblical anecdote which has resonated with me (for a long time). When I was much younger, I found it extremely distasteful how my church was a cesspool of discussion about stock trading, discussion about property, boasting of children's exam results with little mention of "God", "Jesus" or "The Holy Spirit" in the fellowship hall. Much later, I understood that these people were in church to network with other "English-speaking professionals" much like some boys go to church to meet girls. (Granted, it may have been a biased picture not representative of the whole, but it was a big enough segment, and thankfully, the youth ministry made up for that deficiency.) This childhood background has fueled my disdain for the zombies that lust for money (as opposed to chewy grey matter). These impressions, in turn, fuel my vehement distaste for the money grubbery that is CHC.
Since ancient times, those seeking money have understood that foot traffic is strongly correlated with commerce (location, location, location), just as today attendences are correlated with takings. This would be a great case study at the Harvard Business School with its low cost of customer acqusition (through a viral engine of growth), high retention rates by giving people what they want: "you will be wealthy" and "God is indeed Santa Claus" and effective cross selling to increase lifetime customer value.
There is much schadenfreude going around on this matter. Many people have written about this matter in the past days. Disgusting anecdotes of coercion to "give" have emerged. Criticism of teachings at CHC, having been around for an even longer time, are receiving a fresh infusion of readership. (I am pleased. *chuckles*)
On a seperate note, the level of brainwashing is quite clear noting that some CHC members "remain loyal" in spite of clear signs of aspiritual greed (e.g.: giving a "discount" of $770k and then recovering that discount from some other fund). We should bear in mind that the amounts we are talking about are not peanuts, we're talking about the entire bag. Those people... it will take some time...
I was discussing the City Harvest Church (CHC) case with a colleague who is a non-Christian with a particular distaste for CHC. His view is that if one is trying to evangelize, one should at least know enough about the subject matter to answer simple questions. He said that the best answer he got out of CHC's "evangelists" was "I see you are very interested in this, why don't you come down and there will be people who will be able to discuss this further with you." More quick wit than substantive content, he declined.
I was pleasantly surprised that he was familiar with the above biblical anecdote which has resonated with me (for a long time). When I was much younger, I found it extremely distasteful how my church was a cesspool of discussion about stock trading, discussion about property, boasting of children's exam results with little mention of "God", "Jesus" or "The Holy Spirit" in the fellowship hall. Much later, I understood that these people were in church to network with other "English-speaking professionals" much like some boys go to church to meet girls. (Granted, it may have been a biased picture not representative of the whole, but it was a big enough segment, and thankfully, the youth ministry made up for that deficiency.) This childhood background has fueled my disdain for the zombies that lust for money (as opposed to chewy grey matter). These impressions, in turn, fuel my vehement distaste for the money grubbery that is CHC.
Since ancient times, those seeking money have understood that foot traffic is strongly correlated with commerce (location, location, location), just as today attendences are correlated with takings. This would be a great case study at the Harvard Business School with its low cost of customer acqusition (through a viral engine of growth), high retention rates by giving people what they want: "you will be wealthy" and "God is indeed Santa Claus" and effective cross selling to increase lifetime customer value.
There is much schadenfreude going around on this matter. Many people have written about this matter in the past days. Disgusting anecdotes of coercion to "give" have emerged. Criticism of teachings at CHC, having been around for an even longer time, are receiving a fresh infusion of readership. (I am pleased. *chuckles*)
On a seperate note, the level of brainwashing is quite clear noting that some CHC members "remain loyal" in spite of clear signs of aspiritual greed (e.g.: giving a "discount" of $770k and then recovering that discount from some other fund). We should bear in mind that the amounts we are talking about are not peanuts, we're talking about the entire bag. Those people... it will take some time...
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