SRS Investment

[assiak71]

You can purchase PIMCO Income Fund SGD Hedged using SRS on Poems and DollarDex, with the option to RSP on both platforms. 0% purchase fee, 0% platform fee, 0% redemption fee. You don't need a robo for this.

For info
Endowus' pimco funds are institutional class
And i recall they have 3. Something like global, inflation linked and EM

Anyway i have mentioned before elsewhere. The whole pt of going for robo is portfolio management and for the case of endowus their sgd-hedged bond funds. Hence i will go for 80/20 or 60/40 and not 100/0.

 

[Han Shot First]

That's true, but in my specific case, since I'm depositing into it monthly, and my current balance haven't even crept up to 10k, the overall fees incurred by the robo platform is significantly lower than fees from doing it myself, since I'm buying monthly, and at my current AUM, the transaction fees alone already cost more than the management fee I'm currently paying for my robo.

There is no dispute that doing it yourself is significantly cheaper, but that's only once you're past a certain AUM, and also depending on how you invest (one lump sum vs monthly). I'm not claiming robos are cheaper. Just that they're cheaper for me, right now.

May I enquire the amount you are investing per month through the robo-advisor? If the amount is really small, there could be a case that it might make sense to invest through a robo-advisor.

Actually one issue one should be aware of in investing through StashAway is that the beneficial owner of the (fractional) ETF shares is Asia Wealth Platform Pte Ltd which is StashAway’s legal entity. In the eyes of the law, the so-called investor does not own the ETF shares purchased with the investor's monies.

 

[s0crates]

Noooo those funds you are accessing on POEMS are retail share class...... Look at the expense ratio...... It's different from endowus. POEMS also needs to earn money ok, they earn through trailer fees and is more expensive than Endowus in totality!!!!

You can purchase PIMCO Income Fund SGD Hedged using SRS on Poems and DollarDex, with the option to RSP on both platforms. 0% purchase fee, 0% platform fee, 0% redemption fee. You don't need a robo for this.

 

[Han Shot First]

Sometimes it is also about access to better fund products. I definitely like the PIMCO SGD hedged funds more than A35 and MBH.

Why do you like the PIMCO SGD hedged funds more than A35 and MBH?

Which PIMCO fund do you prefer?

 

[tangent314]

Has anyone actually seen the fees for the PIMCO Income Fund SGD Hedged institutional class before making the assumption that it will be cheaper overall after adding the endowus fees?

 

[tangent314]

Assume you set aside 1k per month for investments, the transaction fees alone is already $120 per year. By comparison, 0.8%* per monthly balance of 1k compounded over a year is only $96. All these is omitting any returns from the investment for ease of comparison. If you were to continue doing that for 4 years (48 months), you'll incur a total of $480(since transaction fees are not compounded), while management fees, even after compounding 0.8%* on monthly balances is only $384.

So yes, even after 4 years when you're close to hitting 50k AUM via monthly 1k contributions, it makes sense to stick to robos for a sizeable number of people here who make tiny monthly contributions to their investments.

Of course, when you're doing huge lump sum deposits (from your yearly bonus or whatever), then it makes sense to use IBKR or Saxo or any of the brokers), but other than that, given my scenario, robos are still cheaper.

For monthly, there's no transaction fees involved if purchasing LionGlobal funds. Yes it gets fairly costly if purchasing STI ETF through brokers every month. ATM OCBC BCIP would be the cheapest at $5.

Lumpsum investment into SRS isn't uncommon. From what I see a lot of people do wait until almost end of the year to pump the money into SRS.

You won't be using IBKR or Saxo to invest your SRS monies.

The strategy I'm considering is to RSP $1275/month into LGAS, then twice a year redeem an appropriate amount to purchase STI ETF.

 

[s0crates]

Same question back to you?

The PIMCO hedged funds on endowus is around 0.55% TER, plus endowus 0.4/0.6% fees, that adds up to 1.1% max.

The PIMCO hedged funds on fsmone is 1.4% TER.

Yes people actually do their homework!!

Has anyone actually seen the fees for the PIMCO Income Fund SGD Hedged institutional class before making the assumption that it will be cheaper overall after adding the endowus fees?

 

[tangent314]

Do you have a link to the factsheet or similar that shows the management fees of the Institutional Class SGD Hedged funds?

 

[assiak71]

Do you have a link to the factsheet or similar that shows the management fees of the Institutional Class SGD Hedged funds?

Some info.
Click view more under Investment, Fund Managers

https://endowus.com/support

Issue i have with endowus is
- the valuey dimensional world equity fund for cash and srs portfolio
- the higher fee for cash portfolio compared to srs

 

[s0crates]

https://secure.fundsupermart.com/fsm/funds/factsheet/ALZ155/PIMCO-Global-Bond-Fund-Cl-E-Acc-USD

https://storage.googleapis.com/endowus-funddocs/PIMCO_Global_Bond_Fund_SGD_IE00B3Q8VQ13_PHS.pdf

Some of the funds are not even SGD hedged on FSMONE

Do you have a link to the factsheet or similar that shows the management fees of the Institutional Class SGD Hedged funds?

 

[tangent314]

Ok thanks. I will concede that endowus may be the better way to go if the expensive unit trusts are what you really want.

Obviously that's not going to dissuade me from continuing to recommend a combination of STI ETF and Lion Global funds over endowus since the point has always been to avoid expenses including that from expensive unit trusts.

 

[ravi2653]

You can purchase PIMCO Income Fund SGD Hedged using SRS on Poems and DollarDex, with the option to RSP on both platforms. 0% purchase fee, 0% platform fee, 0% redemption fee. You don't need a robo for this.

That’s great indeed. Wanted to clarify a bit - I’m putting SRS money into equity (bcz bond portion of my portfolio already heavy). Is the an equivalent global equity focused fund with reasonable expense ratio? I know of Lion Global options so other than that for SRS? I’m already investing portion of SRS into Lion series and looking for one more alternative to complete SRS investment. Not looking for local investment

Also what’s the expense ratio for PIMCO income fund?

 

[ravi2653]

Some info.
Click view more under Investment, Fund Managers

https://endowus.com/support

Issue i have with endowus is
- the valuey dimensional world equity fund for cash and srs portfolio
- the higher fee for cash portfolio compared to srs

Any idea if I can do 80/20 portfolio for SRS only investment via Endowus? I read earlier that for SRS only option is to go 100% in equity into dimensional world EQ fund.

 

[w1rbelw1nd]

Ok thanks. I will concede that endowus may be the better way to go if the expensive unit trusts are what you really want.

Obviously that's not going to dissuade me from continuing to recommend a combination of STI ETF and Lion Global funds over endowus since the point has always been to avoid expenses including that from expensive unit trusts.

You do you, boss. Its your choice.

I just find it strange that you are actually ok with switching between a 70:30 equity/bond globally diversified, partially active portfolio for SRS, over to a long term STI exposure on a half yearly basis.

Where is the consistency in that, beyond cost minimisation?

For the record of all people I definitely rather pay less fees, and I would very much rather pay a one-off brokerage rather than recurring fees. Guess beggars of better products, and skeptic of STI exposure like me cannot be choosers.

Too bad for me.

 

[ravi2653]

That’s great indeed. Wanted to clarify a bit - I’m putting SRS money into equity (bcz bond portion of my portfolio already heavy). Is the an equivalent global equity focused fund with reasonable expense ratio? I know of Lion Global options so other than that for SRS? I’m already investing portion of SRS into Lion series and looking for one more alternative to complete SRS investment. Not looking for local investment

Also what’s the expense ratio for PIMCO income fund?

though no platform fee from POEMS but just saw management fee of 1.45% (quite high) for this fund. Endowus option looks much cheaper for SRS investment. Not sure if I’m missing something here

 

[assiak71]

Any idea if I can do 80/20 portfolio for SRS only investment via Endowus? I read earlier that for SRS only option is to go 100% in equity into dimensional world EQ fund.

You can.
100/0
80/20
60/40
40/60
20/80
0/100

 

[boredboiboi]

though no platform fee from POEMS but just saw management fee of 1.45% (quite high) for this fund. Endowus option looks much cheaper for SRS investment. Not sure if I’m missing something here

Managenent fee is embeded if i am not wrong be it which platform you use for the same fund. Prices shown are already accounted for.

 

[Okenba]

Managenent fee is embeded if i am not wrong be it which platform you use for the same fund. Prices shown are already accounted for.

Endowus 0.4% does not include fund management fees.

Endowus claims that they refund trailer fees, so I would expect the management fees to be cheaper under them.

I guess this would be one way to see how POEMS is earning off your trailer fees.

 

[tangent314]

That’s great indeed. Wanted to clarify a bit - I’m putting SRS money into equity (bcz bond portion of my portfolio already heavy). Is the an equivalent global equity focused fund with reasonable expense ratio? I know of Lion Global options so other than that for SRS? I’m already investing portion of SRS into Lion series and looking for one more alternative to complete SRS investment. Not looking for local investment

If you must have 100% equities, then yes the option with the lowest cost is Lion Infinity Global Stock Index Fund of 0.81%. Endowus + DFA's fund is slightly higher at ~0.83%

though no platform fee from POEMS but just saw management fee of 1.45% (quite high) for this fund. Endowus option looks much cheaper for SRS investment. Not sure if I’m missing something here

This is a bond fund, not quite what you are looking for?

 

[tangent314]

You do you, boss. Its your choice.

I just find it strange that you are actually ok with switching between a 70:30 equity/bond globally diversified, partially active portfolio for SRS, over to a long term STI exposure on a half yearly basis.

Where is the consistency in that, beyond cost minimisation?

For the record of all people I definitely rather pay less fees, and I would very much rather pay a one-off brokerage rather than recurring fees. Guess beggars of better products, and skeptic of STI exposure like me cannot be choosers.

Too bad for me.

So you believe a 3-fund portfolio is stupid because it has local equities allocation?