Suitable roboadvisor for conservative investor

[kurt111494]

Hi all,

I'm a noob at investing, but I feel that it's a good time to get started soon to prepare for retirement.

I've heard much about the hands-off approach for roboadvisors which I find attractive due to my extreme busy work schedule.

I'm looking to invest for at least 10 years, maximum 30 years.

Hoping to put a lump sum of 75-100k first, followed by periodic monthly topups.

Lowest risk if possible. Just looking at around ~5% returns if possible? Good if it can be higher (still with a low risk of course). Of course, I'd like the annual fees to be low as well.

I'm currently looking at Syfe, but not sure if it's suitable enough. Any reviews about Syfe or any other recommendations?

Thank you all

 

[chaoprokia]

https://blog.moneysmart.sg/invest/robo-advisors-singapore/

Don’t know about Robo .
My fren has Stashaway he seem happy seeing money growing.

 

[BlueRobin]

I am using Endowus. When you start, you could create portfolio based on your own risk appetite and I assume all robos would have the same options?

 

[kurt111494]

https://blog.moneysmart.sg/invest/robo-advisors-singapore/

Don’t know about Robo .
My fren has Stashaway he seem happy seeing money growing.

I am using Endowus. When you start, you could create portfolio based on your own risk appetite and I assume all robos would have the same options?

Thanks guys for your replies

I think each roboadvisor goes for different things to invest in right? I'm just kinda wondering which type of investment would be suitable for my profile hmmm...

 

[kumokumo]

Why not "diversify" your money into a few platforms first to try out, since fees are all in % of your money. Then months later, you can consolidate into the ones you like.

Like 10K each to stashaway, sfye, endowus, DBS, etc...

You can even create 2 portfolios on the same platform, e.g. $5k on 10% risk and $5k on 20% risk to see the difference.

 

[kurt111494]

Why not "diversify" your money into a few platforms first to try out, since fees are all in % of your money. Then months later, you can consolidate into the ones you like.

Like 10K each to stashaway, sfye, endowus, DBS, etc...

You can even create 2 portfolios on the same platform, e.g. $5k on 10% risk and $5k on 20% risk to see the difference.

Thank you sir, this suggestion does sound interesting

I'm just not really into the idea of having too many different platforms to manage though ><

But perhaps I can start with 2 platforms hmmm...

 

[luvalist]

I have StashAway and Endowus. I like them for different reasons - stashaway for speed and simplicity of app and Endowus for ability to invest in institutional funds (as I was told).

So far the referral awards help to block some fees so I do see returns.

Lemme know if you need referral.

 

[chaoprokia]

I have StashAway and Endowus. I like them for different reasons - stashaway for speed and simplicity of app and Endowus for ability to invest in institutional funds (as I was told).

So far the referral awards help to block some fees so I do see returns.

Lemme know if you need referral.

How many Month?

What the return u getting per month?

 

[Okenba]

Endowus does unit trusts. Their overall fees (platform + fund expense ratios) are one of the highest. Flip side is everything is in SGD, so no worries about currency fluctuations and US dividend tax and estate tax. One more thing to note is that Endowus prime offering (Dimensional Funds) is all about value. Unfortunately value has been underperforming for years. Whether it will keep underperforming or revert to mean is anyone's guess, but basically it has been underperforming the market for about the last 10 years I think.

Syfe does ETFs and is the only Robo doing REITs. So if you like REITs, Syfe is the way to go. The total cost is also very respectable and one of the lowest.
Syfe ARI is about risk management, so may be helpful for someone who is risk adverse. Because of sREITs and some of the ETFs in 100%Equities are UCITs compliant, not everything is under US dividend or estate taxable. But you need to know the difference and make an effort in your own portfolio construction. If US taxes are a big deal to you, Endowus is probably better for a no-worries approach.

Stashaway is pure US etfs. No running away from dividend or estate taxes. (Except for the local income portfolio which looks like rubbish. To me.)
Stashaway is also about risk management so you can probably pick a low risk portfolio. It also seems to produce better results than Syfe, but don't quote me on that.
Expense-wise, Stashaway is more expensive than Syfe until you hit about the 7 digit mark. But not by too much and still lower than Endowus.

If you like having all your investments in one place, note that Endowus is the ONLY robo thus far that allows CPF investing. It also allows SRS investing to cover all bases.
Stashaway does SRS, but no CPF.
Syfe only does cash but the claim is that SRS is on the way. No timeline that I know of though.

 

[s0crates]

I think very unfortunately no one calls out stashaway for their very active management in exposures and how much it is dependent on their CIO or whatever algo they are using to get outperformance. I don't see Google or Facebook exposure in any of the funds they have in my 36% risk portfolio and it's dodgy af. At least dimensional has a very long track record and has a consistent way of investing. I don't see how one can place their faith in SA and syfe when they don't have any track record. It's also uncomfortable that they can change the allocation when they want to.

Dbs digiportfolio would have been a decent choice if not for the crappy interface and how much cash they are holding to low-key time the market. All these small details matter. while i am not thrilled about the factor tilt I like how transparent and consistent endowus is with their methodology. I have rejected their portfolio changes in favour of the factor tilt and I want that control.

Endowus does unit trusts. Their overall fees (platform + fund expense ratios) are one of the highest. Flip side is everything is in SGD, so no worries about currency fluctuations and US dividend tax and estate tax. One more thing to note is that Endowus prime offering (Dimensional Funds) is all about value. Unfortunately value has been underperforming for years. Whether it will keep underperforming or revert to mean is anyone's guess, but basically it has been underperforming the market for about the last 10 years I think.

Stashaway is pure US etfs. No running away from dividend or estate taxes. (Except for the local income portfolio which looks like rubbish. To me.)
Stashaway is also about risk management so you can probably pick a low risk portfolio. It also seems to produce better results than Syfe, but don't quote me on that.
Expense-wise, Stashaway is more expensive than Syfe until you hit about the 7 digit mark. But not by too much and still lower than Endowus.
.

 

[Okenba]

I think very unfortunately no one calls out stashaway for their very active management in exposures and how much it is dependent on their CIO or whatever algo they are using to get outperformance. I don't see Google or Facebook exposure in any of the funds they have in my 36% risk portfolio and it's dodgy af. At least dimensional has a very long track record and has a consistent way of investing. I don't see how one can place their faith in SA and syfe when they don't have any track record. It's also uncomfortable that they can change the allocation when they want to.

Dbs digiportfolio would have been a decent choice if not for the crappy interface and how much cash they are holding to low-key time the market. All these small details matter. while i am not thrilled about the factor tilt I like how transparent and consistent endowus is with their methodology. I have rejected their portfolio changes in favour of the factor tilt and I want that control.

This is fair. Syfe and Stashaway with their risk management portfolios are not quite the same as index investing and there is an element of actively rebalancing and trying to time the market for sure.

Syfe at least has non-ARI portfolios that are less active, but Stashaway has no such portfolio. However, if I'm not wrong, Stashaway gives the option for the user to receive recommendations on their rebalancing and then decide for themselves if they want to rebalance or keep things as is.

A robo that thus far is completely passive index investing would be Autowealth. Fees are decent (lower than Endowus but higher than Syfe at 100k+). No CPF or SRS. And everything in US etfs, so all the US taxes apply.

I don't know much about digiportfolio. I was planning to try Utrade Robo, but they discontinued signups. Sounds a bit like what happened to Smartly.

 

[s0crates]

Actually no... For autowealth the US18 fixed fee is quite expensive for amounts less than $20k. The issue with a custodised account is that are not able to stick to the allocation perfectly and invest the full amount.

This is fair. Syfe and Stashaway with their risk management portfolios are not quite the same as index investing and there is an element of actively rebalancing and trying to time the market for sure.

Syfe at least has non-ARI portfolios that are less active, but Stashaway has no such portfolio. However, if I'm not wrong, Stashaway gives the option for the user to receive recommendations on their rebalancing and then decide for themselves if they want to rebalance or keep things as is.

A robo that thus far is completely passive index investing would be Autowealth. Fees are decent (lower than Endowus but higher than Syfe at 100k+). No CPF or SRS. And everything in US etfs, so all the US taxes apply.

I don't know much about digiportfolio. I was planning to try Utrade Robo, but they discontinued signups. Sounds a bit like what happened to Smartly.

 

[Okenba]

Actually no... For autowealth the US18 fixed fee is quite expensive for amounts less than $20k. The issue with a custodised account is that are not able to stick to the allocation perfectly and invest the full amount.

OP mentioned 75-100k. I reckon it should be fine.

 

[tutonic]

Stashaway is really solid. I'm thoroughly pleased with my returns. I'm currently at about 10% return even during these uncertain times. Been with them for just under a year.

Echoing what others have said about the local portfolio in Stashaway. It's complete trash. My only regret was waiting too long to switch to Syfe's REIT+ for my local holding.

It doesn't make sense to split your investment across various platform, since OP has a relatively large sum to invest. That sum can help him get lower fees since the fees are based on your AUM. It would be more prudent to do your research before diving in.

With regards to the referral code for stashaway, for OP specifically, it won't really make that huge of a difference since it only offsets fees for $10k for 6 months, but if you decide to go for Stashaway, might as well save some money anyway.

 

[kurt111494]

Endowus does unit trusts. Their overall fees (platform + fund expense ratios) are one of the highest. Flip side is everything is in SGD, so no worries about currency fluctuations and US dividend tax and estate tax. One more thing to note is that Endowus prime offering (Dimensional Funds) is all about value. Unfortunately value has been underperforming for years. Whether it will keep underperforming or revert to mean is anyone's guess, but basically it has been underperforming the market for about the last 10 years I think.

Syfe does ETFs and is the only Robo doing REITs. So if you like REITs, Syfe is the way to go. The total cost is also very respectable and one of the lowest.
Syfe ARI is about risk management, so may be helpful for someone who is risk adverse. Because of sREITs and some of the ETFs in 100%Equities are UCITs compliant, not everything is under US dividend or estate taxable. But you need to know the difference and make an effort in your own portfolio construction. If US taxes are a big deal to you, Endowus is probably better for a no-worries approach.

Stashaway is pure US etfs. No running away from dividend or estate taxes. (Except for the local income portfolio which looks like rubbish. To me.)
Stashaway is also about risk management so you can probably pick a low risk portfolio. It also seems to produce better results than Syfe, but don't quote me on that.
Expense-wise, Stashaway is more expensive than Syfe until you hit about the 7 digit mark. But not by too much and still lower than Endowus.

If you like having all your investments in one place, note that Endowus is the ONLY robo thus far that allows CPF investing. It also allows SRS investing to cover all bases.
Stashaway does SRS, but no CPF.
Syfe only does cash but the claim is that SRS is on the way. No timeline that I know of though.

I think very unfortunately no one calls out stashaway for their very active management in exposures and how much it is dependent on their CIO or whatever algo they are using to get outperformance. I don't see Google or Facebook exposure in any of the funds they have in my 36% risk portfolio and it's dodgy af. At least dimensional has a very long track record and has a consistent way of investing. I don't see how one can place their faith in SA and syfe when they don't have any track record. It's also uncomfortable that they can change the allocation when they want to.

Dbs digiportfolio would have been a decent choice if not for the crappy interface and how much cash they are holding to low-key time the market. All these small details matter. while i am not thrilled about the factor tilt I like how transparent and consistent endowus is with their methodology. I have rejected their portfolio changes in favour of the factor tilt and I want that control.

This is fair. Syfe and Stashaway with their risk management portfolios are not quite the same as index investing and there is an element of actively rebalancing and trying to time the market for sure.

Syfe at least has non-ARI portfolios that are less active, but Stashaway has no such portfolio. However, if I'm not wrong, Stashaway gives the option for the user to receive recommendations on their rebalancing and then decide for themselves if they want to rebalance or keep things as is.

A robo that thus far is completely passive index investing would be Autowealth. Fees are decent (lower than Endowus but higher than Syfe at 100k+). No CPF or SRS. And everything in US etfs, so all the US taxes apply.

I don't know much about digiportfolio. I was planning to try Utrade Robo, but they discontinued signups. Sounds a bit like what happened to Smartly.

Stashaway is really solid. I'm thoroughly pleased with my returns. I'm currently at about 10% return even during these uncertain times. Been with them for just under a year.

Echoing what others have said about the local portfolio in Stashaway. It's complete trash. My only regret was waiting too long to switch to Syfe's REIT+ for my local holding.

It doesn't make sense to split your investment across various platform, since OP has a relatively large sum to invest. That sum can help him get lower fees since the fees are based on your AUM. It would be more prudent to do your research before diving in.

With regards to the referral code for stashaway, for OP specifically, it won't really make that huge of a difference since it only offsets fees for $10k for 6 months, but if you decide to go for Stashaway, might as well save some money anyway.

Thank you all for your feedback! Really appreciate it

I will choose between Stashaway and Syfe then

 

[tutonic]

Thank you all for your feedback! Really appreciate it

I will choose between Stashaway and Syfe then

For what it's worth, personally, I think there's really no point in going below the 12% risk portfolio for Stashaway. It's really too defensive. I went with the 16% one for my core portfolio, with some holdings in the 30% one.

If you decide to go for Stashaway or Syfe, and don't currently have a referral code, you can PM me and I'll send you mine.

 

[kurt111494]

For what it's worth, personally, I think there's really no point in going below the 12% risk portfolio for Stashaway. It's really too defensive. I went with the 16% one for my core portfolio, with some holdings in the 30% one.

If you decide to go for Stashaway or Syfe, and don't currently have a referral code, you can PM me and I'll send you mine.

Thank you so much for your advice sir

I'm waiting for some incoming funds before going ahead. Will PM you once the time is right

What benefits will the referral codes have?

 

[tutonic]

Thank you so much for your advice sir

I'm waiting for some incoming funds before going ahead. Will PM you once the time is right

What benefits will the referral codes have?

For Stashaway, referral codes give 6 months of no management fee for up to 10k SGD for both referrer and referee. So if you have 11k SGD invested in Stashaway, you'll be paying only the management fee for that 1k, for 6 months. From month 7 onwards, you'll be paying the fee for the full 11k ah.

For Syfe, I think it's some bonus for both referrer and referee like 10SGD or 20SGD or something, depending on how much the referee deposits.

But basically, it should amount to the same thing. The amount you save in management fee from Stashaway's referral should be close to what you get from Syfe's referral.

 

[apriliasiao]

The Robo fees here are damn high leh... like avg 0.5%/pa which is excluding the TER of individual ETF/UT... No worth the money.

 

[seowcc]

I have Syfe, Stash and Endowus accounts and I was "lucky" enough to see how each of the platform performed during Sep 20's US market correction. I used Syfe only for REIT portfolio since it doesn't make sense to use 2 ETF-based Robo Advisors.

My experience thus far are:

[Syfe]
- REIT portfolio is a unique selling point. It tracks the underlying iEDGE REIT so no surprises when market goes up/down.
- I haven't tried Syfe's Equity100 or GlobalARI portfolio but some Youtube reviews commented their ARI strategy can be quite "conservative"
- The mobile app is too simple and have lots of room to improve
- Syfe have a decent number of Youtube webinar to keep us updated.

[StashAway]
- Main product is USD-based ETF and SGD-based Cash Management @1.4%pa
- I use their ETF portfolio so the Sept 20 US market correction did bring down the value by 1-2% overall but nothing drastic. Proves their diversification works. Since it tracks indexes, your portfolio growth also goes in tandem with them.
- Best mobile app among all
- Limited Youtube webinar but do have weekly market updates by their CIO Freddy.

[Endowus]
- Offers SGD-based low-cost unit-trust based and cash management portfolios. Minimizes currency fluctuation as a result.
- Offers low and high returns cash management solutions about 1%-2%pa. Also, 100% bond portfolio if you configure the risk level to 15% - 18%
- Their equity-focused portfolios drops the least in the Sept 20 US market correction perhaps because it is not ETF-based.
- Offers the most wide-ranging webinars and recently release some new product offerings for DIY enthusiasts.


I like diversifying my hard earned money into different Robo Advisors and gradually shift the money into the best performing ones for my risk appetite and style.