The Shirting Thread (with PEEKTURES)

[arcturuz]

Those ikea wood hangers tend to leave yellow marks on my white and light colored shirts if use them to air dry after a wash.
Avoid at all costs.

 

[boysdontcryy]

Michael Alden (Founder of a menswear forum and menswear enthusiast) on Shirts and their fit.



Oscar Wilde has one of his more earnest characters remark that “a well tied tie is the first serious step in life.” That may well be, but the first serious step in bespoke tailoring is a well cut shirt.

How often do I see men with no cuff showing or sheets of it in view casting accusatory glances at their innocent tailors when the cut of the shirt is at fault and neither the coat nor its maker? And what is to be said about men who wear off the rack shirts that do not fit and wonder why their fine bespoke jacket is wrinkled and untidy? Or into what infernal bolgia will be cast the man who wants a tailor to cut a coat to fit all of his shirts when all of his shirts are all over the globe in terms of measures, fit and sleeve length?

Coats are crafted to fit shirts whose measures must be constant.

So, the first step in bespoke is to get a serious shirt, one that fits, made by the best craftsmen you can’t afford before you step foot inside a tailor’s shop. When you have acquired short term funding from the IMF and had a proper shirt made, have it duplicated in Bangladesh and never (ever) vary from its measures. Then and only then can you venture to the tailors and ask him to make a coat whose sleeves will be calibrated to the shirt’s measures (now a mathematical constant) so the right amount of shirt cuff is revealed.

This mad science sounds pretty simple, right? Falsch meine kleine kartofellpuffe! The proliferation of bespoke (sic) MTM shirts has muddied the waters of pure Cartesian shirt logic for a few reasons, ones that can drive tailors batty.

MTM shirt makers generally do not pay attention to nor make accommodations for the difference in the length of your arms caused by such things as physical deformation, tilted shoulders, uneven shoulders, awkward stance, poor posture and juvenile knuckle dragging syndrome. So the resulting bespoke (sic) shirt that does not fit will have to be compensated for by your coat and that coat will only fit that offending shirt and no others including ones that might be properly cut.

To make matters worse most MTMers do not even notice the shiny Audemar Piggy that weighs in at half a ton on your wrist. The wrist measures must be taken with the Piggy on the wrist and enough fabric provided on the shirt cuff to allow it to be buttoned firmly at the proper and never changing position your tailor will love you for.

And speaking of buttoning cuffs, most MTM shirts do not button at all. They are so loose at the wrist that the cuff travels between Memphis and Cairo on your forearm and wrist on its own mercurial volition and whimsy leaving you and your tailor to grasp dueling pistols at dawn. The cuff of the shirt needs to be firmly fastened, not blood clottingly tight, but tight enough for the cuff to stay in place where we want it to rest not where it decides to after a few kilometers of anatomical tourism.

Do imagine the pleasure your tailor must feel, after painstakingly crafting a beautiful coat with a wonderfully precise small oval armhole, when you try to cram a shirt with an armhole big enough for a medium sized circus elephant into it? One of the first lessons in bespoke is to recall that a tailor possesses marvelous cutting talent, scissors that are as large as they are razor sharp and your back is turned to him for most of your visit! I hope the wisdom contained in this merry bit of philosophy sinks in.

If you are serious about bespoke and are smart enough to sidestep besmoke, equip yourself with a well cut shirt, no matter the cost. You will make your shirtmaker, your tailor and your life insurance company very happy.

Once you have your shirt made, and a good coat to match you will need to focus your attention on the second most serious step in bespoke: how to knot the well knotted tie. And that will be the subject of some upcoming bombast.

 

[theRenaissance]

My update on the shirt I dropped off with my tailor.

The shirt, in total, cost me less than 130 SGD.

Pardon my stages of undress --







Yes, NOT all MOP buttons are created equal

Buttons are ACE. Thats from the latest tailor I reckon?

 

[steve_macca]

Hi bdc, I do face the same problem as you experienced below and I didn't know there was a solution, until now. Arevthere any bkk tailors that can do this collar style, the conical cuffs and jigger button with ease and without much elaborate explanation?

COLLAR ME NOT

On collar variety

When I returned to SG, after spending nearly 6 years abroad, and after living in the cold, I was hit by the sudden (okay, not so sudden since I was bracing myself for it) surge of humidity and heat.

Didn't take me too long to realise that I needed a wardrobe overhaul and that I won't be wearing ties as often as I'd have liked -- at least, not when I decide to go alfresco dining. And when I leave my tie tied to my bed post and go out sans tie, I like to show a bit of chest (yes, yes, voyeurism, and I know some people don't really like it).

PS: Incidentally, that's why I was looking forward to sunny Singapore -- abroad, in the wintry months, all the ladies are bundled up in thick overcoats, here, it's hot ... you get my gist ...

One 'problem' I faced, and an issue I didn't quite like when I go tie-less and leave a single button undone, in addition to the collar button, is how the shirt 'placket' just crumbles in. It doesn't stay spread and open, in the casual manner I prefer.

Some people are fine with it closed. For somebody as fastidious as I am about position and skin, it irks me.

Here's a picture to illustrate what I mean, and how the collar doesn't stay open, and the 'placket' portion flaps all around.

Spoiler

Spoke to my Asian tailor (YES, who says Asian shirt-making pales in comparison to the West?) who introduced a specific collar style and how the shirt could be constructed differently to address the problem I spoke about -- on the 'placket' crumbling in and not staying open in a dynamic V-shape.

It's always insightful learning from these Asian tailors who literally make you a shirt that solves the problems you describe. I call them mini-'engineers' -- they explain the problem to me, why the problem happens, and then, they address the problems. The italicized portion is important. Now, that's some problem-solving tailor.

Enter, the shirt with a one-piece collar where the shirt stays open and in place when it's unbuttoned.

The collar, unlike other collars, is made up of a single piece that extends all the way to the front. Very different from normal shirts.

You'll see how the opening roooooolls into a V-shape the way I like it, and stays open without crumbling inwards and losing its shape.





Even when I'm slipping on my braces!



Shirt below not worn by me. Used to illustrate how wearing such a shirt with a coat looks infinitely more casual, with a dash of sprezzatura. Definition here.

 

[boysdontcryy]

Hi bdc, I do face the same problem as you experienced below and I didn't know there was a solution, until now. Arevthere any bkk tailors that can do this collar style, the conical cuffs and jigger button with ease and without much elaborate explanation?

Hi, check out Narin Couture at BKK, I posted about him somewhere in this thread.

Therenaissance -- yes. Provided my MOP buttons though.

 

[Swordsman]

which fabric is the most cooling/comfortable/breathable/lightweight/thinnest ?

which brand to buy for shirts - office and casual. ?

 

[boysdontcryy]

which fabric is the most cooling/comfortable/breathable/lightweight/thinnest ?

which brand to buy for shirts - office and casual. ?

Italian shirtings are usually lighter than their English counterparts, though not always. My advice would be to feel and handle the fabrics to ensure they're light enough for you. Opt for 100% cotton.

You might want to experiment with an undershirt that MIGHT help absorb your sweat if you're concerned about sweaty shirt armpits etc.

 

[Swordsman]

Italian shirtings are usually lighter than their English counterparts, though not always. My advice would be to feel and handle the fabrics to ensure they're light enough for you. Opt for 100% cotton.

You might want to experiment with an undershirt that MIGHT help absorb your sweat if you're concerned about sweaty shirt armpits etc.

wouldn't it feel worse ? with another shirt on.. like sibei gao wei.

 

[IceX]

I have undershirts(from uniqlo) and it helps with the sweat stains issue..but kinda uncomfortable wearing them. As I have a belly, wearing another undershirt beneath my shirt feels kinda restricting for my tummy

One more thing, not sure if its just me. If I wear one my undershirt(thin body fitting ones) beneath, the stomach area of my shirt looks much tighter.

 

[Swordsman]

I have undershirts(from uniqlo) and it helps with the sweat stains issue..but kinda uncomfortable wearing them. As I have a belly, wearing another undershirt beneath my shirt feels kinda restricting for my tummy

One more thing, not sure if its just me. If I wear one my undershirt(thin body fitting ones) beneath, the stomach area of my shirt looks much tighter.

Then not for me, think I just use those anti perspire spray

 

[uRiZEn]

which fabric is the most cooling/comfortable/breathable/lightweight/thinnest ?

which brand to buy for shirts - office and casual. ?

Well apparently there's one shirt like this. But the preorder for it is over. I ordered one from their kickstarter to try try.

Wool & Prince Hardly-Ever-Wash-Me Shirt | DudeIWantThat.com

The fella actually tested it wearing for 100days and asked random ppl on the streets whether does it smell.

 

[raist85]

may i know what is the appropriate length for sleeves, assuming it is not worn with a jacket?

cos i realized in order not to have the cuffs ride up when i fold my arms, the sleeves need to be longer. but that will cause the sleeves to have slack when i am standing with my arms by my sides.

it becomes worse when the cuffs are tight cos the sleeves looks to have even more slack.

so not sure what is the recommended length of sleeves.

 

[boysdontcryy]

may i know what is the appropriate length for sleeves, assuming it is not worn with a jacket?

cos i realized in order not to have the cuffs ride up when i fold my arms, the sleeves need to be longer. but that will cause the sleeves to have slack when i am standing with my arms by my sides.

it becomes worse when the cuffs are tight cos the sleeves looks to have even more slack.

so not sure what is the recommended length of sleeves.

Shirt sleeves should end the same place whether or not coats are worn.

The sleeves should always be slightly longer and ought to firmly (not tightly) grip the wrist so it doesn't ride up your arm.

I'll post a picture of my cuffs unbuttoned some time so you can take a look.

 

[PetiaC]

Then not for me, think I just use those anti perspire spray

go easy on the deodorant, will leave stains on white shirts

 

[i.curtis]

I saw on KBKS they do one piece collars as well now?

Dont think anywhere else offers that service

Hi bdc, I do face the same problem as you experienced below and I didn't know there was a solution, until now. Arevthere any bkk tailors that can do this collar style, the conical cuffs and jigger button with ease and without much elaborate explanation?

 

[i.curtis]

SOKTAS

Hello guys,

Just wanted to ask is $180 for Soktas shirts a good price? I was at KBKS, Made in Italy for Soktas $180,

Or would you guys rather do the Thomas Mason Promo 3 for $600 also Made in Italy

 

[Mystech13]

hopefully this is the right thread. I'm just looking to buy casual shirts, those casual wear for work. Saw on facebook a place called shirtwerkz. shirt comes $33 per piece. anyone used them before and any issues?

 

[Soul108]

BDC: do you have any recommendation for sg CMT. I was quoted 115 for cmt at iris. Still mulling about it. That of course doesn't include mop buttons .. was thinking of buying fabric off acorn.

 

[PetiaC]

Hello guys,

Just wanted to ask is $180 for Soktas shirts a good price? I was at KBKS, Made in Italy for Soktas $180,

Or would you guys rather do the Thomas Mason Promo 3 for $600 also Made in Italy

Good price for Soktas. My advice is do one by one. The overseas shirtmaker might have to redo the shirt. so get the first shirt fit correct first.