The Shirting Thread (with PEEKTURES)

[boysdontcryy]

Think it'll be easier for fellow SGPoreans to go through the thread on shirts, and learn about what makes a good shirt, and why.

Maybe if I have time, I'll write a post on how to tell if your shirt fits you well, and what to look out for (from a consumer's perspective). Always good to be an informed customer.

For this post, I'lll share about one of my adventures in Naples, a land renown for their handwork and shirt-making skills, and notorious for their dropped deadlines.

The Atelier:



Here I'm having a fitting for a shirt. Shirt is 'basted' up (was done within 20 hours, a marvel), and it is later taken apart and re-cut before being put together to my measurements.

Shirt is always larger at the fitting, and cut to size thereafter. You can't make a shirt wider, but can make it smaller. That logic applies.



Fabric is by Carlo Riva, long regarded as the Rolls Royce of fabrics. It's 40 euros/m on a 36 inch width loom (WHEN ON SALE), that means, you need approximately 2.3 m for a shirt. That's 170 SGD for the FABRIC alone (don't forget there's little mark-up because I went to Naples.

Also visited a smaller shirt-maker whom my friend recommended. Very jovial guy. Didn't speak a word of English. I relied on a handheld translator. Ha.

Here he's cutting the fabrics. On HIS left, you'll see a cardboard like thing on the table. He's cutting what is called a 'paper pattern' created according to the constituent parts of the shirt, according to customer's measurements. Makes it easier for him to recreate an order. When a customer asks for a shirt, he just takes those patterns out, lay them on the fabric and snip snip snip.



Here are some of the hallmarks of a well-made Neapolitan shirt that features a lot of handwork (and time, which, as you know, is money). This is made by the guy just above:

Shoulder seams are hand stitched (you can see those . . . . that denote hand work)



EACH AND EVERY button hole is handsewn. That's seriously time consuming!



NORMAL button hole below. Essentially, they just cut the buttonhole open with a pair of scissors:

Shirt sleeves attached by hand:



Thick MOP (literally), and there are many grades of MOP unfortunately, and not all are created equal. There are cheap China ones, there's Trocas, and then there's MOP. The Italians use Australian grade MOP. The creme de la creme.

 

[boysdontcryy]

Shirt collar also attached by hand:



Hope this helps. Will share the price if you guys are interested.

 

[dj_flame]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[RTPJRTPJ]

Is there a difference between a shirt sewn by hand and a shirt sewn by a sewing machine?
Beside that it is time cosuming, buttonholes doesn't fray and buttons are shank higher, what other benefits does a hand sewn shirt has?

 

[i.curtis]

ya got difference meh between hand sewn shirts and shirts sewn by machine?

I can understand a handmade suit, but is a handmade shirt have that much difference?

Is there a difference between a shirt sewn by hand and a shirt sewn by a sewing machine?
Beside that it is time cosuming, buttonholes doesn't fray and buttons are shank higher, what other benefits does a hand sewn shirt has?

 

[boysdontcryy]

No functional difference except for the romantic elements. Also, it tells a tale of tradition, and how the tailoring scene was like, before the industrial revolution. It harks back to an era where machines were not as good as deft fingers. It attests to the skill of artisans in Italy who can do what machines cannot. It appeals to many to know that Italian grandmothers have put the shirt together, stitch by stitch, by hand, for you. Each stitch is a labour of love and it satisfies me hearing the shirtmaker exult about his shirt and craft. 'Who cares about making a lot of money? I rather make one good shirt than three', he told me. It's his labour of love.

It is the dying art of artisanal shirt-making, just like our Hawker culture.

I can eat chicken rice at Mandarin Hotel or I can eat chicken rice at a third generation hawker stall whose son will not be continuing the business because he thinks there's not enough money in it.

That's the difference.

ya got difference meh between hand sewn shirts and shirts sewn by machine?

I can understand a handmade suit, but is a handmade shirt have that much difference?

 

[i.curtis]

Ah okay,

Does that mean we have to X3 the price for one shirt or more? How much would a handmade shirt cost just out of curiosity

Any tailors in SG would be able to do a handmade shirt?

No functional difference except for the romantic elements. Also, it tells a tale of tradition, and how the tailoring scene was like, before the industrial revolution. It harks back to an era where machines were not as good as deft fingers. It attests to the skill of artisans in Italy who can do what machines cannot. It appeals to many to know that Italian grandmothers have put the shirt together, stitch by stitch, by hand, for you. Each stitch is a labour of love and it satisfies me hearing the shirtmaker exult about his shirt and craft. 'Who cares about making a lot of money? I rather make one good shirt than three', he told me. It's his labour of love. It is the dying art of artisanal shirt-making, just like our Hawker culture.

I can eat chicken rice at Mandarin Hotel and I can eat chicken rice at a third generation hawker stall whose son will not be continuing the business because he thinks there's not enough money in it.

That's the difference.

 

[boysdontcryy]

Well, whether you want to pay x3 the cost is your prerogative. I mean, why use KbKS or Dylan & Sons who charge (I think) 150 if, according to the thread, Lai En makes them for 30 SGD CMT. It's perceived value.

I paid 150 SGD CMT max (for the second guy). Doesn't sound that expensive to me given it takes 3 times the time to make the shirt with that much effort + you have a fitting like you do suits. That, plus I'm supporting a dying trade. Convert that into euros and it's only 90 euros. Try getting a shirt like that for 90 SGD.

Ah okay,

Does that mean we have to X3 the price for one shirt or more? How much would a handmade shirt cost just out of curiosity

Any tailors in SG would be able to do a handmade shirt?

 

[elpis55]

Agreed fully with bdc, in essence u pay for what u get or the value u perceived

150 cmt for full hand work is not that expensive if u know the value for it

As compared to one paying 150 for the mentioned tailors who are merely taking your measurements and giving numbers to the seamstress who is really the one doing the hard work but getting paid peanuts.

So think of where your money is paying to, and you can perceive if it of true value

Well, whether you want to pay x3 the cost is your prerogative. I mean, why use KbKS or Dylan & Sons who charge (I think) 150 if, according to the thread, Lai En makes them for 30 SGD CMT. It's perceived value.

I paid 150 SGD CMT max (for the second guy). Doesn't sound that expensive to me given it takes 3 times the time to make the shirt with that much effort + you have a fitting like you do suits. That, plus I'm supporting a dying trade. Convert that into euros and it's only 90 euros. Try getting a shirt like that for 90 SGD.

 

[RTPJRTPJ]

True true, I agree it's good value to pay a cmt of $150 for a handmade shirt. I will if I could. But then again there's no one in Singapore who can do a proper handmade shirt. So it's redundant for one to go all the way to Italy to make a handmade shirt. So the closest I can get one in Singapore is at Kiton but that's like $900 plus for one I believe? Then it's just like paying over price for a brand and the seamstress gets peanuts too.

 

[boysdontcryy]

There are shirtmakers in SG who can do a handmade shirt. Theyre a dime a dozen in Bangkok for even cheaper than the Neapolitan ones. Why not?

Though I think that's besides the point. Merely raising awareness as to the going-ons in the shirt-making scene and what people have done, and the capabilities of shirt-makers in Singapore. And actually, if one travels to Italy, it isn't that redundant to have smth made up there.

True true, I agree it's good value to pay a cmt of $150 for a handmade shirt. I will if I could. But then again there's no one in Singapore who can do a proper handmade shirt. So it's redundant for one to go all the way to Italy to make a handmade shirt. So the closest I can get one in Singapore is at Kiton but that's like $900 plus for one I believe? Then it's just like paying over price for a brand and the seamstress gets peanuts too.

 

[Azrielsc]

There are shirtmakers in SG who can do a handmade shirt. Theyre a dime a dozen in Bangkok for even cheaper than the Neapolitan ones. Why not?

Though I think that's besides the point. Merely raising awareness as to the going-ons in the shirt-making scene and what people have done, and the capabilities of shirt-makers in Singapore. And actually, if one travels to Italy, it isn't that redundant to have smth made up there.

This is a great read and thanks for sharing.

Please let me know this Atelier that you mentioned. I will be making a trip there soon and will try to get a couple of shirts handmade by a craftsman. At least it is different from run of the mill shirts and has tradition sewed into them (pun intended).

 

[boysdontcryy]

Here are a couple more features of a well-made shirt.

Tailoring has advanced, and there are many innovative tailoring techniques that have been developed to allow for clothing that fit better.

Enter 1) The conical cuff.

In the picture immediately below, you'll see that the cuff is wider at the top, and it narrows towards the wrist area. It's conical shaped. The cuff has been cut this way so it will hug the wrist snugly. Yet, at the same time, it isn't tight and uncomfortable. You don't have to worry about the cuff moving up and down when you move your hands.

Yes, it's NOT a tailoring gimmick and it ACTUALLY works. Still am in shock after wearing it. Now, that's what I call an innovative AND FUNCTIONAL tailoring technique.

PS: You'll also notice that the patterns (stripes) match up EVEN though it's conical shaped. Effort has been taken to match the patterns (in this case, the stripes).

Here's mine:

2) Enter the reversible cuff. This conical shaped cuff has another nifty feature.

It can be worn as a french cuff, with cufflinks, and can double up as a normal button cuff.

You saw the cuff (like a normal functioning cuff above).

Now, take a look at it here!



Where did the button go?

Peek-a-boo!



Button has been hand-shanked with an extra long stalk so that it can be popped through the hole with ease. On a normal hand-shanked stalk. It WILL not work. Remember to tell you tailor you want it extra long! This is what good tailors know as the jigger button:



Pop it through the hole! And ... a normal button cuff again.

 

[boysdontcryy]

Welcome. You're heading to Bangkok or Naples?

This is a great read and thanks for sharing.

Please let me know this Atelier that you mentioned. I will be making a trip there soon and will try to get a couple of shirts handmade by a craftsman. At least it is different from run of the mill shirts and has tradition sewed into them (pun intended).

 

[RTPJRTPJ]

There are shirtmakers in SG who can do a handmade shirt. Theyre a dime a dozen in Bangkok for even cheaper than the Neapolitan ones. Why not?

Though I think that's besides the point. Merely raising awareness as to the going-ons in the shirt-making scene and what people have done, and the capabilities of shirt-makers in Singapore. And actually, if one travels to Italy, it isn't that redundant to have smth made up there.

Yeah I would make a hand made shirt if I was in Italy travelling. By the way, which shirt marker in Singapore can do hand made shirts? I would wanna try! I would be proud to wear a hand made artisanal shirt made in Singapore!

 

[iamneverenough]

nice thread dude (Y)

any fits pic for us to admire the fitting?

 

[boysdontcryy]

It actually cut according to very classic proportions (maybe slightly slimmer). I don't really fancy shirts that are tight. Feels very uncomfortable. Will post peektures of the fit

nice thread dude (Y)

any fits pic for us to admire the fitting?

 

[boysdontcryy]

COLLAR ME NOT

On collar variety

When I returned to SG, after spending nearly 6 years abroad, and after living in the cold, I was hit by the sudden (okay, not so sudden since I was bracing myself for it) surge of humidity and heat.

Didn't take me too long to realise that I needed a wardrobe overhaul and that I won't be wearing ties as often as I'd have liked -- at least, not when I decide to go alfresco dining. And when I leave my tie tied to my bed post and go out sans tie, I like to show a bit of chest (yes, yes, voyeurism, and I know some people don't really like it).

PS: Incidentally, that's why I was looking forward to sunny Singapore -- abroad, in the wintry months, all the ladies are bundled up in thick overcoats, here, it's hot ... you get my gist ...

One 'problem' I faced, and an issue I didn't quite like when I go tie-less and leave a single button undone, in addition to the collar button, is how the shirt 'placket' just crumbles in. It doesn't stay spread and open, in the casual manner I prefer.

Some people are fine with it closed. For somebody as fastidious as I am about position and skin, it irks me.

Here's a picture to illustrate what I mean, and how the collar doesn't stay open, and the 'placket' portion flaps all around.

Spoiler

Spoke to my Asian tailor (YES, who says Asian shirt-making pales in comparison to the West?) who introduced a specific collar style and how the shirt could be constructed differently to address the problem I spoke about -- on the 'placket' crumbling in and not staying open in a dynamic V-shape.

It's always insightful learning from these Asian tailors who literally make you a shirt that solves the problems you describe. I call them mini-'engineers' -- they explain the problem to me, why the problem happens, and then, they address the problems. The italicized portion is important. Now, that's some problem-solving tailor.

Enter, the shirt with a one-piece collar where the shirt stays open and in place when it's unbuttoned.

The collar, unlike other collars, is made up of a single piece that extends all the way to the front. Very different from normal shirts.

You'll see how the opening roooooolls into a V-shape the way I like it, and stays open without crumbling inwards and losing its shape.





Even when I'm slipping on my braces!



Shirt below not worn by me. Used to illustrate how wearing such a shirt with a coat looks infinitely more casual, with a dash of sprezzatura. Definition here.

 

[boysdontcryy]

I'll answer your question with a post on SGP shirts soon. Okay? GPGT

Yeah I would make a hand made shirt if I was in Italy travelling. By the way, which shirt marker in Singapore can do hand made shirts? I would wanna try! I would be proud to wear a hand made artisanal shirt made in Singapore!

 

[i.curtis]

Would love to know of shirtmakers that could do a handmake shirt in SG,

But since Italy is known for its handwork, how would the handwork of a SG or BKK tailor for a handmade shirt, if it isnt as fine or good as an italian tailor, i dont see a point of doing it?

There are shirtmakers in SG who can do a handmade shirt. Theyre a dime a dozen in Bangkok for even cheaper than the Neapolitan ones. Why not?

Though I think that's besides the point. Merely raising awareness as to the going-ons in the shirt-making scene and what people have done, and the capabilities of shirt-makers in Singapore. And actually, if one travels to Italy, it isn't that redundant to have smth made up there.