Thunderbolt 4 vs USB4

[stanlawj]

My own testing result of IOcrest USB 4 to 10Gbe adapter -- as a cheaper alternative to TB3 to 10G NICs.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-simba-and-vq.6930337/page-177#post-153029542

NASCompare review:
https://nascompares.com/2024/07/05/iocrest-usb4-to-10gbe-adapter-review/


Chinese Youtuber review:
https://diyforfun.cn/1131.html

My conclusion is this USB4 10G adapter is power-limited and thus the performance in numerous small file transfers is slower than 1 Gbps ethernet adapter speed.
This makes it only useful for large file transfers which is limited to 5 Gbps, nowhere near the 10 Gbps theoretical (or advertised) speed. But that is still faster than 2.5 Gbps Realtek USB adapters.
I think a new generation of processor is needed. The existing Aquantia AQC113 chip can't flex its muscle with limited power given to it.
Ref:

Operating Power per Port

2.5W (10GBASE-T), 1.5W (5GBASE-T), 1W (1GBASE-T)

 

[stanlawj]

USB4 hub from UGREEN.
https://www.lazada.sg/products/ugre...ok-pro-and-more-i2831525398-s19517468203.html

 

[xiaofan]

USB4 hub from UGREEN.
https://www.lazada.sg/products/ugre...ok-pro-and-more-i2831525398-s19517468203.html

Other than the 8k display support, this one is more of a fake USB 4 hub as the downstream USB ports are 10Gbps at most.

 

[xiaofan]

Huawei Hi GT Cube (USB4/TB4 external GPU dock with built-in AMD RX7600M XT and 240W power supply)

 

[xiaofan]

DIY eGPU dock (also working for 10G NIC and other PCI-E card).

 

[stanlawj]

Intel Lunar Lake is introducing Thunderbolt Share for Thunderbolt 4 & 5!!

Here's the demo using Lunar Lake laptops.


Caveats:

• At least 1 of the computer/laptop must have Thunderbolt Share licence from Intel. Hence most likely new Lunar Lake laptops only (or Arrow Lake desktops).
  OR: the Thunderbolt dock has Thunderbolt Share licence.
  
  
• Passive Thunderbolt 4 cables are limited to lengths of 2m only.
• Longer 3m max length only available with active Thunderbolt 4 cable from Apple.

Apple already implements their own IP (called Thunderbolt Bridge) in MacOS that functions like Thunderbolt Share, so they don't need to license this from Intel.

Intel Thunderbolt Share
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/822291/thunderbolt-share.html

 

[stanlawj]

If you are looking for a USB4 SSD enclosure: choose one with the ASM2464PD chip. It supports USB4 with PCIE tunneling that enables the top speed of 40Gbps. It supports Thunderbolt 3 too (also 40Gbps).

Example review:


https://www.asmedia.com.tw/product/802zX91Yw3tsFgm4/C64ZX59yu4sY1GW5/ASM2464PD

• USB4/Thunderbolt to PCI Express NVMe SSD Bridge.
• Integrated two USB 20Gbps PHYs.
• Support up to USB4/Thunderbolt Gen3 x2 with USB 3.2 and USB 2.0 (backward compatibility).
• Compliant with Universal Serial Bus 4 (USB4 ®) Specification Rev. 1.0 (including Interoperability with Thunderbolt™ 3 (TBT3) Systems)
• Compliant with Universal Serial Bus Power Delivery Specification Revision 3.1 Version 1.3
• Support up to PCI Express Gen4 x4.

Problems to watch out for:
Sleep issues: some external ssd enclosures have design issues with time-out into sleep.
Heat issues: throttling or drop-outs will occur if the temperature rises too high.

 

[stanlawj]

Another USB4 SSD enclosure with ASM2464PD



USB4 SSD enclosure prices are very high now. Near $100 or more, higher than TB4 SSD enclosure prices.

 

[stanlawj]

Intel JHL7440 (TB3) vs ASM2464PD (USB4)

TLDR: ASM USB4 wins
(Temperature/thermal test not conducted. This can cause drop-outs in certain ssd enclosures)

 

[shadow84]

Intel JHL7440 (TB3) vs ASM2464PD (USB4)

TLDR: ASM USB4 wins.

2464 and 2464PD got a big diff? I see Orico taobao usb4 enclosure going for 459rmb.

 

[Phen8210]

Most important is reliability

 

[stanlawj]

2464 and 2464PD got a big diff? I see Orico taobao usb4 enclosure going for 459rmb.

ASM2464 doesn't exist and should be referring to ASM2464PD. has no PCIE tunneling so it is slower (max 20Gbps).
ASM2464PD supports PCIE tunneling. Hence can reach full 40Gbps.

 

[xiaofan]

FYI, TB5 is out but the support is probably next year.
https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-thunderbolt-5/

 

[Phen8210]

ASM2464 doesn't exist and should be referring to ASM2464PD. has no PCIE tunneling so it is slower (max 20Gbps).
ASM2464PD supports PCIE tunneling. Hence can reach full 40Gbps.

wth.. asmedia no money buy camera

 

[stanlawj]

Chinese review of various cheaper USB 4.0 40Gbps SSD Enclosures. ASM2464 chipset seems to be pretty good now.

Xiaofan's post contains the most extensive reviews of available USB4/Thunderbolt3 SSD enclosures with thermal test.
The winner at that time is Ugreen CM642.
However, this device without the fan is reported to have issues with the ASM2464PD controller chip overheating after some time leading to disconnection issues. The reviewer only benchmarked the SSD temperatures, but didn't test the stability of the SSD enclosure under extended continuous load.



"After I modified my Ugreen CM642 USB4 enclosure, I can now confirm that the slow and intermittent disconnection problem was caused by overheating ASM2464PD chips. My modification involved adding a slim copper heatsink and applying thermal paste to the ASM2464PD chip, similar to how you would with a CPU. As a result, the enclosure now runs very stably, achieving read speeds of 31XX MB/s and write speeds of 17XX MB/s without any disconnections. I tested various firmware versions, and the best one turned out to be ‘40d1b2d8asmedia_ASM2464_240229_85_00_00(station-drivers.com).zip’ (Gopod) because it includes a disconnect and resume connection function.

The most challenging part of the modification procedure is unlocking the ten snap-fit joints to disassemble the enclosure."

A newer Ugreen USB4 enclosure has been released: Ugreen CM850 (45368). It includes a fan.
But no fan is observed to be present.

CM642: https://hi-tech.ua/en/article/ugreen-m2-cm642-nvme-ssd-pocket-review/

CM850: https://www.lazada.sg/products/ugre...th-m-and-bm-keys-model-45368-i3161938499.html

So the conclusion is: the ASM2464PD chip also needs to be cooled properly to prevent disconnection, regardless of what SSD enclosure you buy, not just the SSD NVME needs to be cooled.

Some manufacturers like JEYI have this notice:
There are compatibility issues with some MAC devices, which can be solved by download the firmware from our website (JEYI.COM) and upgrading it in windows. The ASM2464 chip is more suitable for the JHL8XXX Thunderbolt chip. If the problem cannot be solved by updating the firmware, you need to wait for the latest firmware version.
Source: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007184834998.html

 

[stanlawj]

The issue with ASM2464PD SSD enclosures disconnecting with Mac is quite widespread.
Orico also has the same problem.



I'm theorising that another possible source of problem is with the compatibility with the custom Apple Thunderbolt controller on Mac and the ASM2464PD sleep timer that disconnects the drive after a certain time, but is unable to reconnect upon wake.

 

[Phen8210]

reliability bad dont buy, dont waste money and buy rubbish, speed good but unreliable no point la

 

[ipaq4444]

DIY eGPU dock (also working for 10G NIC and other PCI-E card).

Hi xiaofan, i always enjoy your post, do you know where to buy his suggest part list?

 

[xiaofan]

Hi xiaofan, i always enjoy your post, do you know where to buy his suggest part list?

1. I have found Taobao links for Item 1 and Item 4. But I think it is probably not easy to DIY if you do not have the 3D printer.

1) ASM2464 SSD USB4 enclosure (ITGZ) --> Taobao, around RMB 229 as mentioned in the video.

Tmall ITGZ official Flagship shop (ITGZ 旗舰店) is selling it at RMB 251,23 (listed price is RMB 259) but there is another ITGZ offical shop (ITGZ 官方店）is selling it at RMB 231.83.

2) 3D print --> you may have to DIY. He has shared the design file in the comment. RMB 8.02 material fee as per the video. But you need to have the 3D printer.

3) Power supply --> buy your own, no idea how he could get the 460W LiteOn power supply at RMB 37.

4) NVME to PCI-E x16 converter --> Taobao, around RMB 19.9 as mentioned in the video.
It is still selling at this price from JEYI Tmall Flagship store (佳翼旗舰店).

2. But there are also sellers who are selling ready-made USB4/TB4 eGPU dock, from about RMB 400 to RMB 1000. No ideas how good they are. You can search Taobao for "雷电显卡坞“ (Thunderbolt eGPU dock).

3. I am not interested in eGPU dock myself but I was interested in adding external 10G NICs. But in the end I just bought two USB 4 to 10G NICs from IOcrest and GRiS.

 

[ipaq4444]

1. I have found Taobao links for Item 1 and Item 4. But I think it is probably not easy to DIY if you do not have the 3D printer.

1) ASM2464 SSD USB4 enclosure (ITGZ) --> Taobao, around RMB 229 as mentioned in the video.

Tmall ITGZ official Flagship shop (ITGZ 旗舰店) is selling it at RMB 251,23 (listed price is RMB 259) but there is another ITGZ offical shop (ITGZ 官方店）is selling it at RMB 231.83.

2) 3D print --> you may have to DIY. He has shared the design file in the comment. RMB 8.02 material fee as per the video. But you need to have the 3D printer.

3) Power supply --> buy your own, no idea how he could get the 460W LiteOn power supply at RMB 37.

4) NVME to PCI-E x16 converter --> Taobao, around RMB 19.9 as mentioned in the video.
It is still selling at this price from JEYI Tmall Flagship store (佳翼旗舰店).

2. But there are also sellers who are selling ready-made USB4/TB4 eGPU dock, from about RMB 400 to RMB 1000. No ideas how good they are. You can search Taobao for "雷电显卡坞“ (Thunderbolt eGPU dock).

3. I am not interested in eGPU dock myself but I was interested in adding external 10G NICs. But in the end I just bought two USB 4 to 10G NICs from IOcrest and GRiS.

Hi xiaofan, do you know how can get the 3d print file? i might try it out this coming holiday