To upgrade or not to 4080s

[Phen8210]

what do you mean by rigged?

Tbh I was temped by my colleague got a new 14700 setup but I read much abt it running hotter and stuff.

And the AMD offerings price wise made more worthwhile for my use case. Because I just turn on play games, I probably don’t do much web surfing even and maybe some potential simple video edit when I take travel vids.

1) E-Core problems
2) Bad Power Efficiency

Unlike Intel, AMD only uses real cores in their desktop CPUs, and AMD's power efficiency is way ahead of Intel's. This post is 2022, and even after 2 years, the nail I hit regarding the setbacks of the hybrid architecture is still present today.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...o-many-low-performance-e-cores.6814205/page-2

Application developers must implement specific workarounds so e-cores do not hurt performance.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...uld-be-great-if-it-didnt-cause-other-problems

99% of companies, from application to OS level, will not waste their time on this hybrid design because Intel needs e-cores to improve its power efficiency (which is still horrible regardless) and benchmark scores.

Also, it affects every type of user, from gaming to productivity.
https://superuser.com/questions/174...pose-any-new-issues-for-vms-or-vm-software-li


2-3 years ago, someone mentioned to me that the debut of Intel's 12th-generation processors would be groundbreaking. However, looking at the current scenario, it seems that Intel is out of touch.

Consumers don't seem to favor e-cores in the processors. It's mainly the shills who continue to support it despite several evidence showing that it's overall more of a setback than an advantage.

 

[watzup_ken]

To be objective, the e-cores can be beneficial under the right conditions. This is very subjective to the software being able to appropriately utilize them or not. In benchmarks, it is easier to optimize and most of them like Cinebench, are able to utilize all the cores. In actual use cases, some software and games are unable to utilize all cores, and will run into performance issue if the software layer fails to direct the load the appropriate core type, especially when there is a significant performance delta between the P and E cores and architecture differences. So in my opinion, while Intel can continue to refine their software layer (thread director), but that also means incremental complication of something being coded incorrectly/ bugged. Plus you should remember that MS have a notorious reputation of breaking things with their infamous updates.

The fortunate thing is that you can disable the E-cores and these issues may go away. However, the unfortunate thing is that Intel made you pay for these cores that you don't need. And this is where I can't accept. From a P-core perspective, you max out at 8 the moment you hit an i7. So between the i7 and i9 from a hardware perspective, you are charged quite a bit more for E-cores. Of course one can argue that these are binned chips and should be more efficient/ achieve higher clockspeed. But this is still a lottery, and not guaranteed.

 

[Phen8210]

To be objective, the e-cores can be beneficial under the right conditions. This is very subjective to the software being able to appropriately utilize them or not. In benchmarks, it is easier to optimize and most of them like Cinebench, are able to utilize all the cores. In actual use cases, some software and games are unable to utilize all cores, and will run into performance issue if the software layer fails to direct the load the appropriate core type, especially when there is a significant performance delta between the P and E cores and architecture differences. So in my opinion, while Intel can continue to refine their software layer (thread director), but that also means incremental complication of something being coded incorrectly/ bugged. Plus you should remember that MS have a notorious reputation of breaking things with their infamous updates.

The fortunate thing is that you can disable the E-cores and these issues may go away. However, the unfortunate thing is that Intel made you pay for these cores that you don't need. And this is where I can't accept. From a P-core perspective, you max out at 8 the moment you hit an i7. So between the i7 and i9 from a hardware perspective, you are charged quite a bit more for E-cores. Of course one can argue that these are binned chips and should be more efficient/ achieve higher clockspeed. But this is still a lottery, and not guaranteed.

Yup intel should reduce their CPUs by half and remove the e-cores from their processor, only then its worth considering

 

[watzup_ken]

2-3 years ago, someone mentioned to me that the debut of Intel's 12th-generation processors would be groundbreaking. However, looking at the current scenario, it seems that Intel is out of touch.

Consumers don't seem to favor e-cores in the processors. It's mainly the shills who continue to support it despite several evidence showing that it's overall more of a setback than an advantage.

Back then, I think the idea of E-core is great for mobile, and to be honest, if these are still "efficient" cores, I still think it is beneficial for mobile solutions. However, between Alder Lake to Raptor Lake, it became more evident that the supposed "efficient" cores are not really meant for efficient purpose but more to make up for the lack of threads. I don't know if Intel capped the P-cores at 8 due to combination of cost reduction or die space limits. The e-cores are clearly smaller in size and cheaper to produce. So at this point, I don't think they are out of touch, but in testing results, the current P & E core model seems to be painting a great picture in reviews because when it comes to games, the P-cores will do the heavy lifting, and in highly threaded software and benchmarks, the E-cores is able to make up for the lack of threads. After all, a decent physical core is still better than the likes of Hyperthreading. At the end of the day, I don't think Intel is out of touch, but this is clearly a deliberate decision.

 

[Phen8210]

Back then, I think the idea of E-core is great for mobile, and to be honest, if these are still "efficient" cores, I still think it is beneficial for mobile solutions. However, between Alder Lake to Raptor Lake, it became more evident that the supposed "efficient" cores are not really meant for efficient purpose but more to make up for the lack of threads. I don't know if Intel capped the P-cores at 8 due to combination of cost reduction or die space limits. The e-cores are clearly smaller in size and cheaper to produce. So at this point, I don't think they are out of touch, but in testing results, the current P & E core model seems to be painting a great picture in reviews because when it comes to games, the P-cores will do the heavy lifting, and in highly threaded software and benchmarks, the E-cores is able to make up for the lack of threads. After all, a decent physical core is still better than the likes of Hyperthreading. At the end of the day, I don't think Intel is out of touch, but this is clearly a deliberate decision.

I know it's a deliberate decision. That's why I said they are out of touch.

Intel CPUs have been losing popularity throughout the years as in-depth testing and user experience report several drawbacks with the hybrid architecture.

Even on HWZ, the AMD Zen4 thread has only been out for 1 generation, but it is way more popular than the thread with 3 generations of Intel combined if you didn't notice it already.

It's quite obvious, intel is out of touch.

 

[ragnarok95]

15000 without HT coming. Lets see.

 

[86technie]

what do you mean by rigged?

Tbh I was temped by my colleague got a new 14700 setup but I read much abt it running hotter and stuff.

And the AMD offerings price wise made more worthwhile for my use case. Because I just turn on play games, I probably don’t do much web surfing even and maybe some potential simple video edit when I take travel vids.

The current Intel 12 to 14th, if you ask me go for AMD Ryzen instead.
Issue with these generation like other mention is due to the hybrid design.
Intel 12th to 14th does not have native CPU design which mean something like quad core + hyperthreading.

These generation have E (Efficient) and P (Performance) cores which causes some issues with certain applications. That if allocated the wrong type of cores that performane will hit.
AMD Ryzen wise it still still native CPU design so either quad core or 6 core or Hexacore.

Intel i7 current generation are difficult to cool so have to get AIO cooler for best performance.
AMD wise will get hot but not as hot like Intel so air and AIO cooling possible.
If just for normal use with light gaming, i5/ryzen 5 will do fine.

Your current setup is actually OK just need to upgrade the CPU.

 

[Revolution]

The current Intel 12 to 14th, if you ask me go for AMD Ryzen instead.
Issue with these generation like other mention is due to the hybrid design.
Intel 12th to 14th does not have native CPU design which mean something like quad core + hyperthreading.

These generation have E (Efficient) and P (Performance) cores which causes some issues with certain applications. That if allocated the wrong type of cores that performane will hit.
AMD Ryzen wise it still still native CPU design so either quad core or 6 core or Hexacore.

Intel i7 current generation are difficult to cool so have to get AIO cooler for best performance.
AMD wise will get hot but not as hot like Intel so air and AIO cooling possible.
If just for normal use with light gaming, i5/ryzen 5 will do fine.

Your current setup is actually OK just need to upgrade the CPU.

Thanks everyone who chipped in to help me w information and make an informed decision.

I pulled the trigger for a 5800x3d
Didn’t want to wait and thought just get the highest spec to enjoy my games for the next 2-3 years I hope!

will try out the amd chipset update too.

 

[watzup_ken]

I know it's a deliberate decision. That's why I said they are out of touch.

Intel CPUs have been losing popularity throughout the years as in-depth testing and user experience report several drawbacks with the hybrid architecture.

Even on HWZ, the AMD Zen4 thread has only been out for 1 generation, but it is way more popular than the thread with 3 generations of Intel combined if you didn't notice it already.

It's quite obvious, intel is out of touch.

I feel Intel rarely push the boundaries in terms of making big changes to their chip design or trying out new feature. Notable standouts were Conroe, Nehalem and Sandy Bridge that brought about significant chip changes in Intel's history and generated quite a lot of excitement. Otherwise, year on year, you get some minor improvements here and there, which is pretty much the same case in recent years.

On the other hand, AMD have been pushing the boundaries in many ways in order to compete. With Ryzen, we started seeing 8 core chips at a very reasonable price. By the time we hit Ryzen 3xxx, AMD transitioned to chiplet and offered a mind blowing 16 cores. It may not sound like a lot, until you look back and see Intel still happily peddling 4 core i7 chips. So while it is not a bed of roses along the years as there were often more issues, but I think it is clear that AMD was able and still continuing to generate quite a bit of interest with new features like 3D cache, etc.

As a user of both Intel and AMD processors currently, objectively, I cannot help but feel if Intel continues this boring path, they will start to fall behind competition. AI itself is not going to help them that much because all their competitors are doing the same, and ARM based competitors are quite far ahead in the AI game.

 

[watzup_ken]

Thanks everyone who chipped in to help me w information and make an informed decision.

I pulled the trigger for a 5800x3d
Didn’t want to wait and thought just get the highest spec to enjoy my games for the next 2-3 years I hope!

will try out the amd chipset update too.

For games, it is hard to not choose the X3D chips. They may not be the best for all situations, but games generally responses very well to the increase in cache.

 

[Revolution]

For games, it is hard to not choose the X3D chips. They may not be the best for all situations, but games generally responses very well to the increase in cache.

Granted I don’t do too much on my own pc and my work doesn’t allow for data to be co-mingled between work and personal machines.

it’s should be an easy choice.

I managed to receive my cpu from Vide* Pr* already. Ordered at 2pm and received 443pm

It’s really fast deals these days

 

[Rapt0r]

Saw some time line on the zen5 line up and it seems it’s some 1 quarter away in jun thereabouts for some new cpus.

Hence I was also wondering if can wait,
1) buy the new release products and probably newer boards
2) enjoy a potential price dip of current zen 4s?

The games are not unplayable now, it’s really the upgrade bug I caught lately.

Yes if new products are not up to expectations, there is still the benefit of lower prices on current gen.
Intel is going 2nm after so long, so things are getting exciting for the CPU space.

 

[kingsen]

Two suggesstions:

1) For your current setup have you install AMD chipset which include power plan for
The AMD Ryzen CPU.

If it is missing, you can backup first than format than do a clean install of Windows. (Offline)
Than install all the driver AMD Chipset -> WIFI -BT-> LAN-> Sound (all these from MSI website)
-> Nvidia

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-B550I-GAMING-EDGE-WIFI/support#driver

What you are experience is Micro shuttering where AMD chipset driver can help to address
such issue.

2) Upgrade to Ryzen 7 5700X3D ($415) or 7 5800x3d ($519) depending on your budget.
Price from Bizgram.
Recommend if possible if you are changing to new CPU, do a clean install Windows
than install the AMD chipset driver.
The chipset driver will optimze the Ryzen CPU power plan as well as install AMD 3D V-Cache Performance Optimizer Driver.

For AMD Ryzen unlike Intel, for the CPU to work optimally AMD chipset is needed.

What is the recommended power plan for 5800x3d ah? I read around alot says Windows Balanced is sufficient.