torn ACL

[hellhole]

bro that did not do the op.. and still play sports that need quick turning movement...

its only soon or later that you will get mencius injury... i hope you never get it...

 

[plasticpistola]

right is complete.
left, i dont know.. didn't go for MRI

got risk of osteoarthritis if don't do the surgery. if you don't mind me asking, are you in your 40s or 50s? still play sports?

 

[kurt_629]

got risk of osteoarthritis if don't do the surgery. if you don't mind me asking, are you in your 40s or 50s? still play sports?

i'm in my 40s, yea. i played a lot of badminton, good week can reach 7 hours of play.
i usually will wear brace.

but i do admit, i do feel the knee giving way on rare occasion.

 

[k4k488]

me loh, i didn't go for the op, chicken out.

in fact, i think i also torn my left leg ACL too..
didnt go for MRI, also dont want to do the op.

just continue to live with it,
strength the legs and core.
I'm exercising 3 times per week, 7 hours in total.

can recommend a good brace?

 

[kurt_629]

can recommend a good brace?

i'm using this : https://shopee.sg/1-pc-Sports-Knee-...ef&xptdk=f37a1900-f8cc-478f-9f83-25670b9560ef

for my badminton. cheap and good.
change every 6 months

 

[k4k488]

how u try kine tapes?

 

[noacl86]

played badminton over the weekend and just received the bad news that i have a complete tear of my ACL. Some very minor bruising of the meniscus possibly.

the strange thing is that when it happened, i had no swelling and no pain. I could even put weight on the knee and walk (albeit gingerly). When i went to the GP to get a referral, she said unlikely to be ligament tear after doing all those guided flexings. when i then went to the ortho knee specialist, he too upon first examinations and doing all the flexings, said that its unlikely to be ligament and even said no need MRI. He said most likely knee popped a bit. I wanted to be sure and requested for one, and we were both shocked that it came back with a complete ACL tear.

He mentioned that given my knee stability and flexation findings, he is not sure whether my acl has been torn from long ago (maybe 10+ years ago i had another knee injury which i didn't follow up on), or tore this time. I did hear the dreaded "Pop" noise when it happened though

I am going to do physio and see if I can lead a normal life without too much problems. I am hearing mixed views on surgery. I have had a lot of success with physio on my previous knee (meniscus) and ankle (torn ligament) injuries, so hoping it can be the same.

Any advice from the bro's gone through similar?

Hi BwaySaiDonk, thank you for sharing.
How's your knee now? I just had a very similar experience.

- hurt knee at football last week, bad but still can walk
- GP, Orthopedic on intial look say nothing much as not much pain or swelling, but i still went for MRI
- MRI scan showed full tear of ACL. but all others ligament/mesicus/cartilge/bone all in good shape
- Ortho can only presume that with the minimal knee swelling this time, that the acl was somewhat torn or even fully torn last time.
- Ortho's medical recommendation is to go for reconstruction surgery.

But as i'm not in pain, and my general dislike for any surgery, i have for now opted to not go for surgery and to try physio instead. I understand that the ACL will never heal, and physio its more of strengthening the surrounding muscles around the knee.

- im turning 37 this year, with "usual" back/knee/joint pain/aches which i attributed to weak muscles or over-exertion.
- 1.82cm and 74kgs, so i have a healthy BMI.
- though im an avid footballer, after the diagnosis, i'm willing to stop playing for good.
- im also an avid golfer, and i'm more worried bout not able to play golf.

So just wanted to know your ACL journey, so that i can hopefully make more informed decisions.
Thank you.

 

[noacl86]

It's not difficult to know if it's a new injury or old from a MRI scan. If it's a new injury, there should be visible, fraying strains of your torn ACL.

If it's an old injury (10 yrs like you mentioned), all the torn tissue should had been re-absorbed and the site should be relatively "cleaned".

I torn my ACL in 1999 and repaired it in 2016, only regret is that I should had done it way earlier. Throughout those years, had underwent numerous physiotherapy and various thigh, hamstrings, muscle conditioning to stabilise the knee joints and I did not benefit much from it. The knee was still unstable if I was not careful, especially for walking down stairs (flexing and straightening), soccer (sudden change of direction) and golf (twisting).

Nowadays, the procedure is considered very simple and relatively painless. I did not need any painkillers after the operation. There will be swelling for about 2 weeks and I think I regained the full range of motion in that knee in 4 weeks.

My advice to those in the same boat - please go for the procedure, your quality of life will improve with 2 good knees.

Hi ringrain_78, thank you for sharing too.

I know you have advise to do the acl reconstructions.
But what was your thought process in 1999 to not do the surgery back then?

I see that we enjoy the same sports - football and golf. Hence your experience is very relevant for me.

After a round of golf or football, my back and joints are stiff, and there is some level of discomfort. but i always attribute that to "usual" part and parcel of football and golf, or that i am generally "weaker" so didnt really think much into it. Over the last 8 years, i have tried Chiro / Accupunture / Bojin to help with the discomfort.

 

[ringrain_78]

I had played golf with a torn ACL before and had on a few occasions, dislocated my left knee - however, not during the swing but just walking on uneven surfaces.

I played football as well, it was almost always a painful experience and knee would gave way and swell up after that.

I had left my knee unrepaired for 10+ years and this remains 1 of the biggest regrets of my life.

To those who chose not to have the procedure, it's your decision but on a physiological POV, your body will slowly learn to adapt and you will, unconsciously, end up over-compensate for that weakened knee. Your body posture will go haywire and for me, I ended up up with my left foot flat and by habit, tend to lean more on my right knee. This is just not healthy for the long term.

 

[ringrain_78]

Hi ringrain_78, thank you for sharing too.

I know you have advise to do the acl reconstructions.
But what was your thought process in 1999 to not do the surgery back then?

I see that we enjoy the same sports - football and golf. Hence your experience is very relevant for me.

After a round of golf or football, my back and joints are stiff, and there is some level of discomfort. but i always attribute that to "usual" part and parcel of football and golf, or that i am generally "weaker" so didnt really think much into it. Over the last 8 years, i have tried Chiro / Accupunture / Bojin to help with the discomfort.

Well, in 1999, I just finished NS, busted my knee 3 days after ORD, so first - cost was a factor then. I didn't know or went to find out if I had any insurance coverage for a surgery.

Second, I was entering NUS and to be walking around in crutches in campus was difficult and unglam - haha.

Then I started be very conscious about walking, not even talking about running. When I went for my IPPT, I had to be very careful with standing board jump and shuttle run - which leg to land on, when leg to spin and then sprint.

After the surgery, I felt liberated - this is the honest truth.

 

[noacl86]

Thank you Ringrain, seems like we have another thing in common as i was from NUS too.

Now that you mentioned bout how our body corrects and adapts it made me think of my lower right back. I have been on the ambulance twice due to muscle spams after golf, with the last in Feb this year. That said not sure if i can really put 1 and 1 together. But really something to think bout, as my physio therapist, chiro, tcm doctors did mention that if the right side is pain, its usually something to do with the left side and the body compensating.

Anyway, at the moment i'm still "scared" of having surgery, i think coming here i'm also trying to find reasons and draw from other similar experience, to back up my choice of non-surgery (yet). As I'm not having significant pain or inconvenience from my knee (yet).

But yes, if i cannot golf (which is my favourite hobby for the last 8yrs) due to the knee, i will likely go for the surgery. I will be resting the knee for another few weeks, and will also update how my "return" to golf will be in August. Fingers crossed.

 

[hellhole]

i think golf with a brace will be okay.

as with an ACL, your potential of meniscus damaged is high if you do sport that require a lot of quick side to side movement.

the pain happen when you injure or tear the meniscus.

continue to strengthen the lower body...

about all your ache and pains.. i give you this take away. a professional football player trains every day to play a professional game on the weekend... while we are just playing that game on the weekend.. what do we do on the days other days? we do our main job. you can never get ride of the ache and pains if you do not do some 'sport work' on the weekday. do some lower body work out at home, easy squast... 50 a day. and some planks. it will for sure help with your golf and overall enjoyment of the game. you keep fit to play sport.. not play sport to keep fit...

 

[noacl86]

i think golf with a brace will be okay.

as with an ACL, your potential of meniscus damaged is high if you do sport that require a lot of quick side to side movement.

the pain happen when you injure or tear the meniscus.

continue to strengthen the lower body...

about all your ache and pains.. i give you this take away. a professional football player trains every day to play a professional game on the weekend... while we are just playing that game on the weekend.. what do we do on the days other days? we do our main job. you can never get ride of the ache and pains if you do not do some 'sport work' on the weekday. do some lower body work out at home, easy squast... 50 a day. and some planks. it will for sure help with your golf and overall enjoyment of the game. you keep fit to play sport.. not play sport to keep fit...

thanks Hellhole, yes indeed what you say is true.

So after my latest back spasm in feb this year, i went for "boring" physio. By then i've tried pretty much everything gym/chiro/tcm/accupunture/cupping/bojin, to limited effect.

I only considered physio after talking to a friend of mine (an ex youth national sailor), whom shared that 10+yrs ago he also had a bad back from all the training, and tried everything but did not work, till he went to a physiotherapist. And all the therapist did was to assess his body, and then give simple targeted stretches, and within a few weeks it helped him a lot.

So with not much else to try, i went for a few physio sessions in March this year, and was taught a few targeted stretches, and like my friend, i felt that my back/shoulders/neck tension had eased a lot. I

Just sharing my journey in case everyone is in a similar situation for their back, and want to consider physio.

Anyway, after that my goal was to start exercising again (sort of paused exercising since 2020), so started running weekly, and did regular pushups at home, and felt in best shape since 2020, had lesser back pain, lesser neck tension, lesser headaches, fell sick less etc. Was enjoying my football more.

But then, last week happened, so yeh back to square one..

 

[noacl86]

Hi,

can't advise you as i didn't do the op.

but currently, i'm still seeing this doctor from TTSH, desmond or daniel if i recall correctly.

Hi Kurtgoh, hows your knee now? I see that you finally did not do the op ?

 

[ringrain_78]

I don't want to come across as the guy who is staunch advocate for surgery but I agree everyone and lifestyle is different and every injury is also different. It depends on how much is your desire to return to those days with 2 good knees.

But if you want to maintain a high level of activeness, why would you even care about putting a brace and worry about jarring knee? This is an issue that can be resolved by a 'simple' keyhole surgery.

After my surgery, my level of activeness is restored to the point that I am enjoying again without a tiny weeny sense of worry. My knee was really bad then and that affected my quality of life but yeah, my body compensated, I evolved my lifestyle around that but thinking back, I should had opted for surgery much earlier,

 

[noacl86]

so in the last week or so, i have spoken to a few of my friends whom did the ACL surgery, and also attended my 1st physio session. So here's the main points that I have drawn from:

1. Seek 2nd opinion whenever possible, and compare pros and cons

There are many ways the new ACL can be harvested from - your own body (hamstring/quads/etc), and even from an external donor (and theres some that are irradiated, non irradiated). I presume most orthopedics are only specialised in 1 method, and that would be their recommended way of doing , all with their pros and cons. So you need to go with one that is right for your body's current condition, and one that you are comfortable with.

2. Physiotherapy

In my case, I am currently witholding doing the surgery due to various reasons, and hence went to a physiotherapist first. He was quite experienced and precise, so within the first session we that that my left leg's hamstring strenght is about 50% of my right leg's. So over the years my right left has been over compensating, and this in-turns create a vicious cycle of my left leg being less strong, and hence me relying less on it and, then it becoming less strong etc etc.

The point being that if i had gone for the surgery without this knowledge and continue exercising the same way, I would probably hurt myself again down the line.

In conclusion, the above are not any medical advice, which is why I didnt specify which method I would be most comfortable with for the surgery. But its more for you to ask yourself the right question before making a decision on your type of surgery.

 

[noacl86]

Hi just to update as it has been 3 months since the last post.

I still have not gone for the surgery, i've managed to do gym sessions involving my knee.
I have not went for a run, but cycling and epiliptical machine in the gym isnt an issue.
Besides some weird angle, my knee is fine.

That said, a good friend of mine just tore his ACL too, so that gave me some reason for me to also just get the surgery over and done with.

 

[laurent_rio]

Hi just to update as it has been 3 months since the last post.

I still have not gone for the surgery, i've managed to do gym sessions involving my knee.
I have not went for a run, but cycling and epiliptical machine in the gym isnt an issue.
Besides some weird angle, my knee is fine.

That said, a good friend of mine just tore his ACL too, so that gave me some reason for me to also just get the surgery over and done with.

May i know how much estimate surgery for ACL ? My mom has something like ACL in her knee and her doctor suggest to do MRI and probably surgery

 

[noacl86]

May i know how much estimate surgery for ACL ? My mom has something like ACL in her knee and her doctor suggest to do MRI and probably surgery

Sorry can't help you in detail as I claimed under my insurance for the MRI scan.

Just remb to get the referral letter from GP first, otherwise cannot claim. Need the GP to write referral letter to specialist (Ortho), then need the specialist to book in the MRI.

IIRC the Specialist consultation was $300+ and the MRI which the specialist helped schedule was $1300 approx. Both of which was claimable.

I have not gone to the next step yet so cant advise on the cost of the surgery.
All the best to your mom.