When PAP going to legalize euthanasia? See some ppl suffering until bth...

[HushiePuppies]

Ah! I see.
Keep them alive longer means more money.
But what about medical assistance in dying? How much will it cost? Will it be a lucrative work?

What if can charge $50k for it? Instead of $30k made extra $20k! Patient say I really bth dowan to live money is not important to me anymore I cannot suffer this any longer. Pay $50k.

If medical assistance in dying collect $50k tomorrow. No need pay staff pay jobs. If no MAiD then pay staff, pay for food slowly collect $30k over 10 months.

at least need $100k + fees.

$100k for hospital to pay 3 staff, 2 eye power approving lor kun and 1 nurse from phillipines.
fees = cost of hiring lawyer or notary witness, family member to sign document in case got backfired. etc.

 

[GarnetDragon]

 

[cyke69sg]

at least need $100k + fees.

$100k for hospital to pay 3 staff, 2 eye power approving lor kun and 1 nurse from phillipines.
fees = cost of hiring lawyer or notary witness, family member to sign document in case got backfired. etc.

That means make even more money right?

 

[crandfs]

Religious and opinionated people will kpkb, so cannot, postpone any decision until after most of them are dead

 

[cyke69sg]

Is not whether die or not. We all will die.
is how PAINFULLY you die. And for how long you have the pain and suffering as you slowly die.

 

[The_King]

i will always always support it, cause i know i will need it

+1 for euthanasia

 

[killing_my_dreams]

pap can only encourage the seniors to go for healthy 365 activities, try to keep them fit and less likely to get chronic diseases.

 

[CanIsayNo]

do u think the more useless we are in society, the higher chance govt will actually sponsor our euthanasia when it becomes available?

 

[rei_the_rebel_cat]

Milo aunty actually got ask before back in 2008:
https://www.moh.gov.sg/newsroom/euthanasia



My guess is that they will legalize it only when it becomes more widely adopted/accepted and ways to regulate this has matured enough.

Euthanization (doctors actively killing their patients) and assisted suicide (doctors just passively helping patients to do so) are subjects that have long been debated globally and the decision isn't easy.

Even now, a good portion of doctors themselves will feel such a law by governments will force them to break the Hippocratic oath they took.

"I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgement, and I will do no harm or injustice to them".



Through the years, we have seen valid reasons for patients who wish to undergo euthanization. A few of the main reasons:
- the pain patients have to continue to suffer. The patients and often their loved ones cannot bear to see the patient continue to suffer
- monetary/emotional burden to the patient and their families
- no chance of recovery



There's way to deal with all the above without resorting to killing the patient. Whether is it more humane or acceptable depends on how people look at it.

For pain, there's painkillers.
For monetary means, healthcare should never reject patients even if they cannot pay in the first place. There are state and private charities or crowdfunding that can help.
For hope of recovery, what if after the doctors pull the plug today, then tomorrow someone announces they've found a cure?

If these concerns can be addressed, is it still justifiable to euthanize the patient?



Another consideration is that it opens up the possibility of misue. We generally trust doctors, but as seen from inflated medical insurance costs, there will be healthcare facilities (the hospital management who are looking to make more profits for example) who will misuse this and recommend unneccesary treatments for money.



Many institutes have updated the Hippocratic Oath to match with modern times/requirements.

However, the danger is akin to removing/changing the first law of robotics:
"A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm".

It will open another can of worms and provide opportunities of misuse. There are very evil people out there.

actually i think it's because the emotional burden of having someone take the life of another is daunting ...

i did consider a vet tech career due to my love for animals, but when i read about what the job actually entails (90% of the time putting down animals), frankly i don't think i can go through with it.

especially if there is a saving chance but the owner just insist of putting the animal down and the vet agrees ... i might actually inject both the vet and the owner ...

so to be honest, i know why this is something many countries don't even consider. you are literally getting blood on your hands and no one wants that type of karma ...

 

[cyke69sg]

i will always always support it, cause i know i will need it

+1 for euthanasia

How are you?
Good to see you again. Hope you are doing well with your nutrition change efforts.

 

[Visor9999]

do u think the more useless we are in society, the higher chance govt will actually sponsor our euthanasia when it becomes available?

Make it compulsory eventually like vaccine

 

[cyke69sg]

actually i think it's because the emotional burden of having someone take the life of another is daunting ...

i did consider a vet tech career due to my love for animals, but when i read about what the job actually entails (90% of the time putting down animals), frankly i don't think i can go through with it.

especially if there is a saving chance but the owner just insist of putting the animal down and the vet agrees ... i might actually inject both the vet and the owner ...

so to be honest, i know why this is something many countries don't even consider. you are literally getting blood on your hands and no one wants that type of karma ...

I understand how you feel.

It's different with animals and pets because the animals cannot tell you themselves how they are suffering. Their life experiences. Their thoughts about life and death. Why they would prefer to die vs continue living. Or if the want to be put down or not. This is essentially non consensual euthanasia.

It properly worked out programs, the patients need to meet criteria for eligibility. They need to be assessed by the doctor. The doctor has to discuss with then in detail and understand the request to die by voluntary means.

In the assessment the patient will explain their suffering which is unbearable. Why they feel dying is better than continuing to live. The assessor has to decide if that suffering meets the standard to qualify as intolerable. And agree that dying is indeed better than continuing to live.

At the end when the provision of the medications to help the patient die is done final consent is taken. And everyone understands why they are doing it. And the death is peaceful and painless. No more pain. Have a peaceful journey. Sometimes the family will say that they have not seen the loved one so peaceful for a long time. Finally rest in peace no more suffering.

It's a different experience. The patients are humans. They talk. They can tell you their thoughts. Emotions. Feelings. Pain. Suffering.

And before you give them the meds they even thank you for helping them.

It is a work done with love and compassion.

 

[Itsthatguy]

Like philipkee said, if these edmwers so much care about euthanasia, go show their determination by signing the amd first. Not sure the actual statistics, I think most edmwers don't even have LPA, Will, AMD or POA signed... Do those first before asking for more.

And if all the above have been signed? What then............?

 

[Itsthatguy]

Can’t say about terminal illness but where there’s life, there’s hope.

There was a movie or maybe a tv series. I never saw the movie but I read about it. Some zombies took over the country and all was hopeless. Then there was this family trapped in a house by zombies . All was quiet and dark outside then the door smashed open and there was a lot of zombies walking in.

Farher told the son this is it. We better die than be zombies. So he shot his wife and his son and was about to kill himself when the zombies collapsed in a hail of machine gun fire. The army had won and managed to kill to the last of the zombies

Then the General ask the father where is your family and he screamed and screamed cos he just killed them one minute earlier.

Where is the hope when all the organs are rotting away inside the body when the cancer cells become aggressive and start attacking all the organs and bones. And can see the patient is wasting away, the eyes becoming lifeless and greyish. Opening the greyish eyes occasionally due to pain but not seeing.

Another colleague of mine shared that his mom passed because of cancer. End stage excreted a lot of blackish water and passed away almost immediately after that.

When there is overwhelming evidence to support an outcome, the caretakers of the patient are more or less already resigned to the fact.

 

[Itsthatguy]

Is not whether die or not. We all will die.
is how PAINFULLY you die. And for how long you have the pain and suffering as you slowly die.

Also the anguish and suffering caused to the living and family.

If I am the one on death bed with no more hope of recovery and in pain, I wouldn't want my love ones to suffer with me. I see my decision for euthanasia as my last loving gift to my love ones to relieve them of the pain and sadness of loss. And give them the assurance that I am at peace with the decision in the medicinal event that necessitates it being carried out.

And that it relives all the suffering.

 

[minlon]

legalizing euthanasia??? Then can remove Advance Medical Directive (AMD).

 

[Philipkee]

It is the families who have seen a loved one through a difficult end of life that will understand why medical assistance in dying is compassionate and respects the patients wishes.

Even healthcare professionals not all deal much with people who die.

Yes. My lecturer even mentioned that even if you worked in a hospice or cancer ward and every patient is dying, you still can end your shift end of day. For caregivers it’s 24/7 no such thing as times up time to go home especially if you are living with the dying.

nurse can give without approval of doc?

A little play on words.
Can refers to physical ability to do it so yes we can give it
May implies permission to do it is give. So we may not

Simple answer - no

which type of cancer. So painful?

Can’t remember. It’s so many years ago but I remember it’s in the whole body already but not sure where it originated from

Correct.

But it can be really a very similar suffering.

Examples of people who would fall into this situation :

30 year old who is quadriplegic bed bound cannot walk or stand cannot do anything. Fed through tube. No life. No activity.

96 year old who has chronic back pain with spinal stenosis not surgical candidate. Severe sciatica and neuropathic pain in legs. Cannot stand or walk. Needing urinary catheter. Needs help cleaning up after defecating. In pain all the time. Also hard of hearing. Has age related macular degeneration. Legally blind. No life. Elderly living with severe frailty. Poor appetite.

I think the idea is that if you were put in that person shoes and have the same life and quality of life why would you want to live on? Now it's a personal choice. Some people say I have reason I want to carry on. That's fine. But if someone says I see no purpose in carrying on. I am not going get better. I am in an advanced state of irreversible decline in capability. Living on only means I need to suffer longer.

Yes

This is where maybe THC might have a part to play as the additional medication .

Did that patient receive Ketamine?

Can’t remember liao

What is it so hard to just say only applicable to terminal ill patients?

Cos easy to say it as a start then people will start saying it should be allowed for other things

Like @cyke69sg mentioned, what about quadriplegics?

I will add on. What about those with mental illness like depression? You don’t want a debate to start along the lines like “It is more ethical to allow a depressed person to go for euthanasia than to disallow euthanasia for him and watch him jump off. Discuss.” Then what about those with no money? They tell you I don’t go for euthanasia (quiet no fuss), I will jump off right now in front of you. Which is better?

if you say yes better to euthanise than to jump off, they will say no money can use Medisave? Medifund? Govt subsidise?

if you say no cannot euthanise just cos no money or depression in not a reason for euthanasia, they jump off in front of you and now traumatise entire block and he is equally dead

So once you allow euthanasia, you can say only applicable to this and that but eventually things will change

 

[coyote]

And if all the above have been signed? What then............?

If anyone of them meet with accident, the doctors will follow his AMD and not save, treat or resuscitate them, because it is their wish not to be treated under any circumstances. Their wishes could be granted... Think they will ask, what if they change their minds and asked to be treated or saved?

 

[mata_hippo]

Ah! I see.
Keep them alive longer means more money.
But what about medical assistance in dying? How much will it cost? Will it be a lucrative work?

What if can charge $50k for it? Instead of $30k made extra $20k! Patient say I really bth dowan to live money is not important to me anymore I cannot suffer this any longer. Pay $50k.

If medical assistance in dying collect $50k tomorrow. No need pay staff pay jobs. If no MAiD then pay staff, pay for food slowly collect $30k over 10 months.

maybe also can compare it with paying things upfront 1 shot or paying in instalment

pay 1 shot usually the better to do ones can do it (allow euthanasia)
pay in instalments almost everybody can do it (dun allow euthanasia, the longer u live the better)

 

[coyote]

do u think the more useless we are in society, the higher chance govt will actually sponsor our euthanasia when it becomes available?

No. Tax payers money should not be used for such.