Which roboadvisor?

[BinaryLord]

Currently using Stashaway, but fees quite high compared to others.

Thinking of opening a syfe account. Any other suggestions?

 

[cassowary18]

DBS digiportfolio.

All other roboadvisors use US domiciled ETFs which are not tax efficient.

 

[s0crates]

Endowus.

Pros:
1. Cpf, SRS and cash and cash management in one platform
2. Assets held in my own legal name with kayhian paper statement sent monthly for verification. very safe for a startup
3. Tax efficient UK funds, no dividend withholding funds no estate tax concerns.
4. Complements my IBKR ucits ETFs large-mid cap exposure ETFs, because endowus uses dimensional funds which tilts towards small caps.

Cons:
1. Trades take forever to reflect on the interface, even though it is executed next biz days

Cons that shouldn't be a con
1. Returns seem lower because some dudes do comparsion. No, time frame is too bloody short to do returns comparison and also should look at average returns based in different entry price

2. Minimum $10k. Not a problem because cpf SRS and cash

3.Value investing failing. I wouldn't bet that dimensional fund will do super well moving forward but I won't bet against it either.

 

[stylechap]

Roboadvisor is about which helps you lose less or earn more isn't it?

Many comparison around
You pay less for syfe but lose more then what's the point?

 

[limster]

The market is not big enough for all the roboadvisors to co-exist.

They are all burning through cash as they try to increase market share. But venture capital, there are limits to how much cash can be burnt.

Those that cannot get the necessary AUM will exit the market.

If you have a long term perspective, you would want to put your money in a robo that will be around in 10, 20 years time.

 

[jetblack]

lol post like nvr post

The market is not big enough for all the roboadvisors to co-exist.

They are all burning through cash as they try to increase market share. But venture capital, there are limits to how much cash can be burnt.

Those that cannot get the necessary AUM will exit the market.

If you have a long term perspective, you would want to put your money in a robo that will be around in 10, 20 years time.

 

[reddevil0728]

lol post like nvr post

It’s a fair comment what

 

[chienwei]

The market is not big enough for all the roboadvisors to co-exist.

They are all burning through cash as they try to increase market share. But venture capital, there are limits to how much cash can be burnt.

Those that cannot get the necessary AUM will exit the market.

If you have a long term perspective, you would want to put your money in a robo that will be around in 10, 20 years time.

stashaway has most AUM? i know Smartly closed...
not sure abt the AUM for others

 

[FinalDestiny...]

stashaway has most AUM? i know Smartly closed...
not sure abt the AUM for others

From what I researched before, Endowus has S$100m AUM, AutoWealth has S$30M AUM. This info is a few months old. Stashaway is secretive about their AUM..

 

[Okenba]

Whether or not their investment strategy is the best,I don't know. But it seems to me that endowus has the most business sense.

They have all the bases covered.
Cash? Check.
SRS? Check.
CPF? Check.
Money Market Fund? Check.

I suspect with all these products, esp CPF, their AUM should be quite healthy.

 

[Han Shot First]

3.Value investing failing. I wouldn't bet that dimensional fund will do super well moving forward but I won't bet against it either.

Value investing must be really failing. Endowus has S&P 500 unit trust as a substantial part of its equity portion of the portfolio. The large tech stocks comprising the top holdings of S&P 500 tilt the index to growth and large-cap stocks. It's painful to pay about 1% fee (Endowus access fee plus fund level fee minus trailer fee rebate) for a S&P 500 asset class that costs only 0.03% to 0.07% DIY without a financial advisor. That is 14.29 to 33.33 times more expensive. Did Endowus advise that lowering costs improves returns yet Endowus does not seem to practise what they preach?

The Dimensional funds portion of the portfolio need to provide additional return of more than 1% to compensate for the very expensive S&P 500 portion. Would you bet that DFA (Dimensional Fund Advisors) would be able to boost returns sufficiently?

 

[s0crates]

Eh stop comparing against US ETF. there are FX costs bid-ask spread, the 0.4% fund cost of lionglobal is reasonable.

Not forgetting endowus seems to be targetting rich folks with high AUM, and have own custodian account. The estate tax risk for US ETF held in your own legal name is REAL (cough autowealth cough). The risk of estate tax in omnibus vehicles is remote but possible. Will a real advisor ask you to "talk to your tax advisor" about the tax implication of your estate tax risks??

Honestly, I am not too concerned about dimensional because I use Endowus largely for cpf SRS and now cash management. There isn't any better alternatives there.

I would recommend endowus to my friends beyond any other robo because of how they properly structure things, is a one stop shop, and does things that inspire trust for layman to stay invested. And of course referral code lmao.

Value investing must be really failing. Endowus has S&P 500 unit trust as a substantial part of its equity portion of the portfolio. The large tech stocks comprising the top holdings of S&P 500 tilt the index to growth and large-cap stocks. It's painful to pay about 1% fee (Endowus access fee plus fund level fee minus trailer fee rebate) for a S&P 500 asset class that costs only 0.03% to 0.07% DIY without a financial advisor. That is 14.29 to 33.33 times more expensive. Did Endowus advise that lowering costs improves returns yet Endowus does not seem to practise what they preach?

The Dimensional funds portion of the portfolio need to provide additional return of more than 1% to compensate for the very expensive S&P 500 portion. Would you bet that DFA (Dimensional Fund Advisors) would be able to boost returns sufficiently?

 

[Okenba]

Honestly, I am not too concerned about dimensional because I use Endowus largely for cpf SRS and now cash management. There isn't any better alternatives there.

I would recommend endowus to my friends beyond any other robo because of how they properly structure things, is a one stop shop, and does things that inspire trust for layman to stay invested. And of course referral code lmao.

If I recall right, SRS uses the dimensional funds as well.

Only CPF uses the S&P type ETFs.

 

[cfleee]

If I recall right, SRS uses the dimensional funds as well.

Only CPF uses the S&P type ETFs.

For the current Cash and SRS portfolios announced at end-May, while it's indeed mostly Dimensional funds, 37% of the equity component is the S&P 500 fund through LionGlobal.

https://endowus.com/insights/new-cash-and-srs-portfolios/

 

[Han Shot First]

Eh stop comparing against US ETF. there are FX costs bid-ask spread, the 0.4% fund cost of lionglobal is reasonable.

Not forgetting endowus seems to be targetting rich folks with high AUM, and have own custodian account. The estate tax risk for US ETF held in your own legal name is REAL (cough autowealth cough). The risk of estate tax in omnibus vehicles is remote but possible. Will a real advisor ask you to "talk to your tax advisor" about the tax implication of your estate tax risks??

One needs to account for Endowus wrap fee (which Endowus prefers to call an access fee) of 0.60% for cash investments. The trailer fee rebate from LionGlobal is less than the wrap fee.

The TER of 0.07% which I referred to is for holding Ireland domiciled ETF tracking the S&P 500 index. The real estate risk for holding Ireland domiciled funds is very low unless one's holdings are in the millions (if I recall correctly).

The "FX costs bid-ask spread" is a 2-time cost - on entry and on exit from the fund. If Endowus uses S&P 500 unit trust instead of ETF, this cost is zero.

The TER of 0.07% and Endowus TER of 1% are recurring (annual) cost. Costs compound. Costs matter. So lower costs mean higher additional returns (that are risk free).

If Endowus used directly Ireland domiciled Vanguard S&P 500 unit trust, the TER is also very low, I think about 0.09%. What I don't understand is: Why does Endowus need to go through a middleman like LionGlobal Investors? Isn't Endowus a financial advisor with direct access to Vanguard funds? How does going through a middleman benefit Endowus's clients?

 

[limster]

There are some that are so hard-core one right answer must only use IBKR to invest in IWDA. No need to argue or justify - unit trust, roboadvisor will never be good enough for them.

Myself, I can see a place for all types of investments. Apart from DIY stocks, I also have NTUC Living policies (3%+ CAGR, better than bond) and unit trusts (CPF).

From time to time I provide financial advice to less savvy relatives/friends. Roboadvisors like Endowus actually look like a very good option to me. My only worry is that (like Smartly) it exits the market as such events may cause undue stress to less savvy investors. That's why I am hoping that they reach a critical mass in terms of AUM viability - I would be happy to recommend Endowus if that occurs.

We don't know the endgame /exit strategy of many of these robos and the capital that is backing them -
* Are they actually angling to be bought out by one of the big boys (banks or insurers?);
* Are they going for IPO? (very hard in SG context)

Or do they have a plan to remain in SG market as an independent entity for the long term?

 

[s0crates]

You are right- they can't. Vanguard is not a licensed retail fund manager in Singapore anymore. So no choice use lionglobal.

If I recall correctly only DBS used UCITS ETFs purely, but you get high fx spread and also the 0.75%p.a. fees.

One needs to account for Endowus wrap fee (which Endowus prefers to call an access fee) of 0.60% for cash investments. The trailer fee rebate from LionGlobal is less than the wrap fee.

The TER of 0.07% which I referred to is for holding Ireland domiciled ETF tracking the S&P 500 index. The real estate risk for holding Ireland domiciled funds is very low unless one's holdings are in the millions (if I recall correctly).

The "FX costs bid-ask spread" is a 2-time cost - on entry and on exit from the fund. If Endowus uses S&P 500 unit trust instead of ETF, this cost is zero.

The TER of 0.07% and Endowus TER of 1% are recurring (annual) cost. Costs compound. Costs matter. So lower costs mean higher additional returns (that are risk free).

If Endowus used directly Ireland domiciled Vanguard S&P 500 unit trust, the TER is also very low, I think about 0.09%. What I don't understand is: Why does Endowus need to go through a middleman like LionGlobal Investors? Isn't Endowus a financial advisor with direct access to Vanguard funds? How does going through a middleman benefit Endowus's clients?

 

[zoneguard]

That's why I am hoping that they reach a critical mass in terms of AUM viability - I would be happy to recommend Endowus if that occurs.

We don't know the endgame /exit strategy of many of these robos and the capital that is backing them -
* Are they actually angling to be bought out by one of the big boys (banks or insurers?);
* Are they going for IPO? (very hard in SG context)

Or do they have a plan to remain in SG market as an independent entity for the long term?

Endowus only has FA license and is very dependent on UOB KH which holds a CMS license for execution and UOBKH is also CPF IA so that's how Endowus is able to do the cash/CPF/SRS triple play.

Anyway it has happened for the UT scene when dollarDex was sold to Navigator (in turned owned by Aviva) so consolidation for robos is inevitable. The big boys have also launched their own robo offerings to compete in this space so let's wait and see what happens...

 

[Okenba]

For the current Cash and SRS portfolios announced at end-May, while it's indeed mostly Dimensional funds, 37% of the equity component is the S&P 500 fund through LionGlobal.

https://endowus.com/insights/new-cash-and-srs-portfolios/

Thanks for this. Honestly did not notice.

But now I'm curious.
Why is endowus paying 0.40% for a s&p fund when you can get a s&p ETF for under 0.10%?

Sounds like an unreasonable waste of money.

 

[reddevil0728]

Thanks for this. Honestly did not notice.

But now I'm curious.
Why is endowus paying 0.40% for a s&p fund when you can get a s&p ETF for under 0.10%?

Sounds like an unreasonable waste of money.

Might be a business tie up with the fund that charges more?