WiFi 7 routers (including WiFi 7 routers without 6GHz band support)

[Apparatus]

I also asked the same qn in the Intel support forum, hope I get a response soon.

Did you ask Intel when WiFi 8 arrives with 7GHz (if) can one still use the old antenna during the dual band time?

Another reason to change antenna has to do with the properties (electrical, thermal, metallurgical etc) of that copper wire. Regardless of how frequent one uses WiFi the properties of the copper material will degrade with time.

I still remembered those days when I was using DLink IP indoor cameras with an external antenna sticking out. One day as I was replacing one of the spoilt cameras I accidentally touched the plastic-covered external antenna and the cover just crumbles exposing the copper wire inside. Imagine a plastic antenna cover new initially reaches this stage. So heat is actually generated when the copper wire emits frequency. And heat affects all materials causing them to degrade over time. With metal it'll harden thus increasing its resistance and likely its performance too. It's similar to your house AC power copper cables. It's always good to replace after many years of use otherwise the risk of catching fire is there. And that's because the copper wires already hardened and its properties changed(degraded) over time.

 

[jasonho]

I also asked the same qn in the Intel support forum, hope I get a response soon.

Told you liao right? His replies in comment section are very half baked and most of the times, answer is as good as don't answer.

 

[xiaofan]

I mention that we can only get low cost true WiFi 7 router (not 10G capable, but with 6GHz band support) to be available at about S$300 to S$400 next year. RIght now the cheapest from local market is probably TP-Link Archer BE550.

But I just find out there is such a router below S$300 now. Unfortunately it is not available in Singapore. It seems to be only available in Taiwan now.

Low cost true WiFI 7 router from TP-Link subsidiary Mercusys 水星路由器 MR47BE with quad 2.5G ports.
https://www.mercusys.com/tw/product/details/mr47be

NT$5,699 is only about S$241.
https://24h.pchome.com.tw/prod/DRAFJ9-A900H3SL0

Youtube review:

 

[xiaofan]

By 2026/2027 maybe WiFi 8 come out liao.........with 7GHz

Still can use back the dual band antenna ah. Or should a new quad band antenna be used? Wait, Dong will definitely disagree with the latter

I am sure there will be WiFi 8/9 down the road.

On the other hand, I think we will not have 7GHz and 8GHz band for WiFi usage, since they have already been allocated for other usages.
https://winnf.memberclicks.net/assets/Proceedings/2022Virtual/WInnComm 2022 7-8GHz Summary Rayment.pdf

https://pixl8-cloud-techuk.s3.eu-we...18453d/UKSPF6G-in-7-to-24-GHzfinal-report.pdf

 

[Apparatus]

Told you liao right? His replies in comment section are very half baked and most of the times, answer is as good as don't answer.

Actually, if he's that good, I expect him to show some concrete evidence instead of saying "no such thing as triband antenna" or "lots of sh.it on the net"

 

[Apparatus]

I am sure there will be WiFi 8/9 down the road.

On the other hand, I think we will not have 7GHz and 8GHz band for WiFi usage, since they have already been allocated for other usages.
https://winnf.memberclicks.net/assets/Proceedings/2022Virtual/WInnComm 2022 7-8GHz Summary Rayment.pdf

https://pixl8-cloud-techuk.s3.eu-we...18453d/UKSPF6G-in-7-to-24-GHzfinal-report.pdf

Regardless, if new WiFi standard released with a new band can the old antenna during the dual band time be used and get the performance of the new WiFi standard?

 

[koreanlover]

I also asked the same qn in the Intel support forum, hope I get a response soon.

https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Tri-band-antenna-for-BE200-Wifi-7-card/m-p/1582654

This person says BE200 MLO only uses 2 bands at a time, not 3, so dual band antenna is enough?

 

[xiaofan]

https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Tri-band-antenna-for-BE200-Wifi-7-card/m-p/1582654

This person says BE200 MLO only uses 2 bands at a time, not 3, so dual band antenna is enough?

I believe that is the case for Intel AX210/AX211/BE200 wireless adapters as there are only two antennas. The second antenna needs to work with both 5GHz band and 6GHz band. So it may require some tuning to get better results compare to previous second antenna which only needs to work with 5GHz band.

But as mentioned before, even without tuning, the 5GHz antenna will likely work with 6GHz band but probably not the optimal.

 

[xiaofan]

Regardless, if new WiFi standard released with a new band can the old antenna during the dual band time be used and get the performance of the new WiFi standard?

Yes, that is correct.

I am just saying that the next frequency band will not be 7-8GHz.

 

[Apparatus]

https://community.intel.com/t5/Wireless/Tri-band-antenna-for-BE200-Wifi-7-card/m-p/1582654

This person says BE200 MLO only uses 2 bands at a time, not 3, so dual band antenna is enough?

Is that why my S24U's MLO cannot detect the 5GHz when all the 3 bands are enabled i.e. only 2.4 and 6GHz? On my ASUS Zenfone 10 MLO combines 2.4/5GHz because Zenfone 10 don't support 6GHz. Is that the MLO or the built-in antenna's limitation?

All antennas are not made by Intel. Can you post the below link to him?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...4L/776-EMF2471A3S-10MH4L-ND/13910448?curr=usd

Important is whether MLO, for now, can combine all the 3 bands.

 

[xiaofan]

Is that why my S24U's MLO cannot detect the 5GHz when all the 3 bands are enabled i.e. only 2.4 and 6GHz? Is that the MLO or the built-in antenna's limitation?

All antennas are not made by Intel. Can you post the below link to him?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...4L/776-EMF2471A3S-10MH4L-ND/13910448?curr=usd

Important is whether MLO, for now, can combine all the 3 bands.

No idea about Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra.

With regard to antenna, the guy's answer is more towards Intel BE200.

From what I read, once Windows driver is ready (Windows 11 24H2), Intel BE200 will support MLO, specically eMLSR mode of MLO -- dynamically switching between 5GHz and 6GHz band. So the answer is probably yes that Intel BE200 MLO will work by combining both 5GHz and 6GHz bands, even with only single antenna for both 5GHz and 6GHz band with Intel BE200 (the other antenna is for 2.4GHz and bluetooth).

Again I am not an expert here and just my understanding and it could be wrong.

1) Reference 1 from Intel: datasheet of Intel BE200 adapter
https://cdrdv2-public.intel.com/761674/761674_Intel_Wi-Fi_7_BE200_GalePeak2_Product_Brief_Rev1p1.pdf

Aligned with the upcoming IEEE 802.11be standard, the Intel® Wi-Fi 7 BE200 module supports
these key features: 4096QAM and 320MHz channels resulting in 2.4X higher peak data rates4,
Multi-link Operation (MLO - eMLSR), Multi-resource unit (Multi-RU) and Puncturing.

2) MLO modes explanation from MediaTek: MLMR, STR, NSTR and eMLSR
https://www.mediatek.com/technology/mlo-infographic

Recommended for fastest throughput performance: eMLSR
A clear winner, especially in heavy traffic environments

Recommended for lowest latency: STR
However, eMLSR still offers competitive performance

3) Interestingly DongKnows also writes about MLO
https://dongknows.com/wi-fi-7-upgrade-on-a-windows-computer/

STR-MLMR MLO (Simultaneous Transmit and Receive Multi-Link Multi-Radio):
It's multi-link aggregation using all three bands (2.4GHz, 5GHz, and 6GHz) to deliver higher throughput, lower latency, and better reliability.

E-MLSR MLO (Enhanced Multi-Link Single Radio):
It's multi-link using dynamic band switching between 5GHz and 6GHz to deliver load balancing and lower latency.

Windows 24H2 MLO: "Aggregated link speed."

 

[xiaofan]

This article may be interesting -- Intel BE200 and MLO support (if the router supports MLO)
https://www.acwifi.net/26144.html

As per the author's testing:
Intel BE200: 2.4G+5G MLO，2.4G+6G MLO，5G+6G MLO，but no 5G1+5G2 MLO
MTK MT79xx: 2.4G+5G MLO，2.4G+6G MLO，5G+6G MLO，but no 5G1+5G2 MLO
Qualcomm WCN7851: 2.4G+5G MLO，2.4G+6G MLO，5G1+5G2 MLO，5G+6G MLO

 

[xiaofan]

2) MLO modes explanation from MediaTek: MLMR, STR, NSTR and eMLSR
https://www.mediatek.com/technology/mlo-infographic

Recommended for fastest throughput performance: eMLSR
A clear winner, especially in heavy traffic environments

Recommended for lowest latency: STR
However, eMLSR still offers competitive performance

Similar info -- dynamicaly switching between 5GHz and 6GHz (or 5GHz-1 and 5GHz-2 for China) [eMLSR mode of MLO] will be faster than simple combining 2.4GHz/5GHz/6GHz (or 2.4GHz/5GHz-1/5GHz-2 for China) [STR mode of MLO]

High-band multi-link in the 2022 article-- probably called eMLSR now.

https://www.rcrwireless.com/2022031...i-fi/what-is-high-band-multi-link-for-wi-fi-7
High-band multi-link
High-band multi-link, in which a device alternates between just the 5 and 6 GHz high bands, will result in the highest performance as these high bands offer better capacity, higher peak speeds and lower congestion compared to multi-link operation that includes the lower 2.4 GHz band.

 

[xiaofan]

Anyway, I guess we all have to be a bit patient and wait for Windows 11 24H2 to be released and see how Intel BE200 performs with MLO.

Router vendors (eg: TP-Link and Asus) may also need to upgrade router FW.

As of now Asus WiFI 7 routers do not support MLO (as well as AFC) yet. TP-Link seems to support MLO with some WiFi 7 routers (not all).

 

[omelet]

Is that why my S24U's MLO cannot detect the 5GHz when all the 3 bands are enabled i.e. only 2.4 and 6GHz? On my ASUS Zenfone 10 MLO combines 2.4/5GHz because Zenfone 10 don't support 6GHz. Is that the MLO or the built-in antenna's limitation?

All antennas are not made by Intel. Can you post the below link to him?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...4L/776-EMF2471A3S-10MH4L-ND/13910448?curr=usd

Important is whether MLO, for now, can combine all the 3 bands.

I tried MLO on my Archer BE805 with a Pixel 8 Pro, also connects to 2.4Ghz and 6Ghz only.

 

[xiaofan]

Another discussion
https://www.snbforums.com/threads/wi-fi-7-multi-link-operation-mlo-discussion.87598/

More technical video linked in the above discussion

 

[xiaofan]

I tried MLO on my Archer BE805 with a Pixel 8 Pro, also connects to 2.4Ghz and 6Ghz only.

Not so sure if this is the WiFi 7 chipset limitation (most likely from Qualcomm) or Android limitation, only 2.4GHz+6GHz MLO.

 

[omelet]

Not so sure if this is the WiFi 7 chipset limitation (most likely from Qualcomm) or Android limitation, only 2.4GHz+6GHz MLO.

Did some experiment on BE805 + P8P, I unchecked 6Ghz from MLO and now the phone will connect to 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.
I then unchecked 2.4Ghz in an attempt to force the phone to connect to 5Ghz and 6Ghz only, but the phone won't connect...

 

[xiaofan]

Did some experiment on BE805 + P8P, I unchecked 6Ghz from MLO and now the phone will connect to 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.
I then unchecked 2.4Ghz in an attempt to force the phone to connect to 5Ghz and 6Ghz only, but the phone won't connect...

Good experiment! Thanks.

Maybe eMLSR MLO mode (or High Band Simultaneous HBS mode) is not working now for Qualcomm FastConnect 7800 modules in the Android phones like Samsung S24 Ultra and Pixel 8 Pro, rather only the dual band simultaneous (DBS) capability is working: 2.4GHz plus 5GHz and 2.4GHz plus 6 GHz frequency bands.

Reference:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...ultra-low-latency-Wi-Fi-7-modules-for-PC-OEMs

The Quectel NCM825, NCM835 and NCM865 series modules utilize a Qualcomm® FastConnect™ 7800 Mobile Connectivity system from Qualcomm Technologies and support simultaneous operation on the 2.4GHz plus 5GHz and 2.4GHz plus 6 GHz frequency bands thanks to 2 x 2 MIMO with dual band simultaneous (DBS) capability. The NCM865 and NCM865A chipsets feature High Band Simultaneous (HBS) technology, which enhances wireless communication by minimizing interference within the high-frequency spectrum. This advancement contributes to a more efficient use of bandwidth, resulting in decreased latency and an increase in data throughput. The modules also support multi-link operation (MLO), a feature that allows routers to use multiple wireless bands and channels at the same time to connect to a Wi-Fi 7 client. MLO enables the NCM8x5 series to achieve a faster data rate, much lower latency and higher network reliability for users.

 

[xiaofan]

WiFi 7:
320MHz bandwith
4K QAM
More avdnaced Preamble puncturing and MRU -- improve reliability
What will be the focus for WiFi 8 -- Ultra High Reliability (UHR)
MLO

MLO in more details
eMLSR MLO mode does not require channel hopping, only fast context switching.