WiFi and Network Configurations for 3Gbps/5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plan

xiaofan

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This thread will talk about WiFi and Network configuration for 5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plans now that they are getting popular.

1. Take note it is difficult to fully utlize the 5Gbps or 8.2Gbps (typical max bandwidth for 10Gbps plan) purely using wireless devices.

2x2 WiFi 7 client with 320MHz channel bandwidth and 4096QAM on 6GHz band --> 5764 Mbps PHY LInk speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 4Gbps; >3Gbps speed is considered as very good.

2x2 WiFi 6/6E/7 client with 160MHz channel bandwidth and 4096QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 2882 Mbps PHY Link Speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 2Gbps; > 1.6Gbps speed is considered as very good

2x2 WiFi 6/6E/7 client with 160MHz channel bandwidth and 1024QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 2402 Mbps PHY Link Speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 1.8Gbps; >1.5Gbps speed is considered as very good

2. So it is better to have at least one 5Gbps/10Gbps capable wired devices, if you have the desire to "fully utilize the bandwidth given". Then you can use 10G/5G or even 2.5G/1G capable wireless AP with the 5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plan.

3. There is also nothing wrong to use the 5Gbps/10Gbps plans as a pure 2.5Gbps or even pure 1Gbps plan, but this thread will not cover those use cases.

4. Typical configurations.

1) ONR based solution --> Singtel/WC ZTE F8648P ONR (wired ONR, no wireless function) and Starhub Nokia XS-2426X-A (AX6000 wireless integrated).

Update: Starhub has removed Nokia ONR option with the new 3Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps plan as of March 2025.

Some VQ users have requested VQ to configure the FibreHome ONR as router mode. Then it is similar to Singtel/WC ONR.

2) ONT based solution --> Starhub (if not using Nokia ONR), MR, VQ (either ONT or default bridged ONR) and SIMBA. You have to connect a 5Gbps/10G capable router behind the ONT.

5. Related threads

1) 10G capable routers and switches (with 10G RJ45 ports or 10G SFP+ ports)
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...and-switch-rj45-version-no-sfp-ports.7072646/
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...port-switch-and-vq-xgs-pon-onu-stick.7047645/

2) For more about WiFi 7 routers, please refer to this thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-7-routers-without-6ghz-band-support.6905228/

3) For more about WiFi 7 devices including SpeedTest results, please refer to this thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...reless-speedtest-and-wifi-7-adapters.7048233/

4) USB WiFi 6/6E/7 adapters
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/usb-wifi-adapter.7009404/

5) 5Gbs/10Gbe and beyond network adapters
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/5gbe-and-beyond-ethernet-adapters.7068236/

6) How to put the main wireless router out of the DB box but rather in a central location?
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...home-networking.6653421/page-3#post-149431568
 
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xiaofan

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1) ISP Typical Wireless Configuration -- Singtel/WC with ONR

Relevant info from Singtel.
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam...ments/fibre-3gbps-enhanced-plan-faq-setup.pdf
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/eshop/Fibre/agreements/5gbps-faq.pdf
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/eshop/Fibre/agreements/10Gbps-FAQ-WiFi7.pdf
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam...singtel-symmetrical-broadband-information.pdf

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2) Some VQ users have asked VQ to configure the FibreHome ONR in router mode. In that case, the following configuration will work.

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3) Starhub Nokia ONR (for both 5Gbps and 10Gbps plans) -- Starhub does not seem to offer ONR to new users after 28-Feb-2025.

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4) SIMBA ONU (ONR). SIMBA has ONT option as well.
https://support.simba.sg/hc/en-us/a...e-collected-the-10Gbps-ONU-how-do-I-set-it-up

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5) M1 10Gbps ONR plan, similar to SIMBA. M1 other plans use ONT (including the other 10Gbps plan)
 
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xiaofan

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ISP Typical Wireless Configuration: for Starhub ONT users (similar for M1/MR and VQ/SIMBA)

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xiaofan

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ISP Typical wireless configuration -- ONT based solution (or bridged ONR from VQ)

1. The following configuration is from VQ, but you can basically use the same diagram for XGS-PON ONT based 5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plan from Starhub/M1/VQ/MR/SIMBA.

For example, you can change the Amazon eero Max 7 to TP-Link EB810v for the diagram to use with Starhub 5Gbps/10Gbps ONT plans with TP-Link EB810v.


8ay72Nv.jpeg


2. VQ may use the bridged FibreHome ONR as well, but you can treat it the same as ONT.

4kCtWH7.jpeg


3. Using SIMBA 10Gbps plan as a reference

Modified from SIMBA's original setup diagram -- to insert a router before the ONT.
SIMBA provdides Amazon eero Max 7 at a discounted price of S$399 for those who want to get a 10G capable WiFi 7 router. If you get the Amazon eero Max 7 from SIMBA, you can refer to the above diagram from VQ.

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More detailed SIMBA setup example (also applicable with other ISPs using ONT).
1) using a router with dual 10G ports
S2Aia2p.png


2) using a router with single 10G port (used as WAN in thise case) and a few 2.5G LAN ports

ESEnpbN.png
 
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xiaofan

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The previous configurations only support one 10G capable wired device. If you need more, then you may need to have a 10G switch. And the XGS-PON ONR from Singtel/WC and Starhub as well as some 10G capable routers do not have 2.5G LAN ports, it makes sense to use a pure 10G switch or hybrid 2.5G/10G switch.

Alternative way for ONR based solution --> using 10G switch or 2.5G/10G switch

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xiaofan

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Alternative way for ONT based solution
ONT + wireless router + 10G/2.5G or 10G capable switch --> 10G/2.5G/1G Wireless AP
ONT + wired router + 10G/2.5G capable switch --> 10G/2.5G/1G Wireless AP

For power users, the wired router can be PCs running pfSense/OPNsense/OpenWRT/etc, or Ubiquiti 10G capable Gateways, or MikroTik 10G capable routers.

You can treat Starhub Nokia XS-2426X-A as "ONT + Wireless router". You can also treat Singtel/WC ZTE F8648P ONR as "ONT + wired router". However, with the ONT, you have the flexibility to choose the wireless or wired router to use, depending on your budget and use cases. The ONRs will usually have limited features.

ONT vs ONR:
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...cs-of-home-networking.6653421/#post-138363236

Example from Starhub:
aEJf47l.png


Same as above but the main router changed to EB810v.
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For those who get two HB710 initially but later want to have more wired devices (2.5G). In that case, they can add a 2.5G/10G switch. But it is easier to have the EB810v from the very beginning and then no need the 2.5G/10G switch.

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xiaofan

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Updated on 17-March-2025.

1. WiFi 7 routers are good match here. I will recommend WiFi 7 APs with at least one 2.5G WAN port as the minimum here.

For more about WiFi 7 routers, please refer to this thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-7-routers-without-6ghz-band-support.6905228/

2. That being said, nothing wrong to use good WiFi 6 APs.

3. Other than consumer wireless routers, power users may like to use Enterprise APs.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/using-enterprise-ap-at-home.7012403/

4. Still take note it is nearly impossible to use single wireless device to saturate the 5Gbps bandwidth, let along 8.2Gbps bandwidth from the 10Gbps XGS-PON based plans. On the other hand, one wired device with decent 10G NIC will have no issue to saturate the 8.2Gbps bandwidth.

As of now, there are no 3x3 or 4x4 WiFi 6/6E/7 clients (eg: PCs and mobile phones) on the market, even though 4x4 WiFi 6/6E/7 routers/APs are common.

2x2 WiFi 7 client with 320MHz channel bandwidth and 4096QAM on 6GHz band --> 5764 Mbps PHY LInk speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 4Gbps; >3Gbps speed is considered as very good.

2x2 WiFi 7 client with 160MHz channel bandwidth and 4096QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 2882 Mbps PHY Link Speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 2Gbps; > 1.6Gbps speed is considered as very good

2x2 WiFi 6/6E/7 client with 160MHz channel bandwidth and 1024QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 2402 Mbps PHY Link Speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 1.8Gbps; >1.5Gbps speed is considered as very good

2x2 WiFi 6/6E/7 80MHz channel bandwidth and 1024QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 1201 Mbps PHY Link Speed, real world wireless speed will usually below 900 Mbps, >800Mbps speed is considered as very good

Note: WiFi 6 clients do not have 6GHz band support.

5. Singtel is really bad in terms of free wireless routers given for the 3Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps plans, especially the cheaper base plans.

Look at Starhub:

3Gbps plan --> ONT + HB410 (2.5G capable, dual 2.5G ports and dual 1G ports, dual band BE6500)
5Gbps plan --> ONT + HB710 (10G capable, dual 10G ports, triband BE18000)
10Gbps plan --> ONT + mostly EB810v (10G capable, dual 10G Ports, three 2.5G LAN ports, triband BE22000), some plans with HB710.

Look at M1:
3Gbps plan --> TP-Link Archer BE230 (2.5G capable, dual 2.5G ports, three 1G ports, dual band BE3600)
6Gbps plan --> TP-Link Archer BE805 (10G capable, dual 10G ports, four 1G ports, triband BE19000)
10Gbps plan --> Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack (10G capable, dual 10G ports, one 1G port, triband BE18000) or single Archer BE805 [most of the users should get Asus ZenWiFi BT10 two-pack as the resale value is at about S$660 to S$700; Archer BE805 resale value is at about S$270 to S$300]

Now look at Singtel (all with XGS-PON ONR).
3Gbps plan --> Singtel AX5400 or HB611-SGST. Only HB611-SGST (2.5G capable, dual 2.5G ports, dual 1G ports, triband BE110000) is a good match for 3Gbps plan.

5Gbps plan --> Singtel AX5400 or HB611-SGST. HB611-SGST (only 2.5G capable) is not that good match for 5Gbps plan already but anyway still much better for Singtel AX5400.

10Gbps plan --> still HB611-SGST or HB810 (dual 10G ports, dual 2.5G ports, triband BE22000). Only HB810 is a good match for 10Gbps plan. HB611-SGST is really not a good match.

6. Singtel 10Gbps WiFi 7 FAQ
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/eshop/Fibre/agreements/10Gbps-FAQ-WiFi7.pdf

Only the HB810 option can have the possibility of "fully utilizing the given 8.2Gbps bandwidth". You only need one 10G wired device to saturate the bandwidth.

The HB611-SGST diagram can only utilitze up to 5.5Gbps bandwidth (1 x 2.5Gbps + 3 x 1Gbps).

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7. Singtel 5Gbps FAQ:
https://www.singtel.com/content/dam/singtel/eshop/Fibre/agreements/5gbps-faq.pdf

Technically all diagrams can utilize the 5Gbps bandwidth. But the two HB611-SGST based connection scheme wil require four wired device to saturate the bandwidth (1 x 2.5Gbps + 3 x 1Gbps). HB810 based connection scheme only needs one 10G wired device to saturate the bandwidth.

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xiaofan

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Typical issues many users are facing: how to put the main wireless router/AP in the central location (eg: living room) and not in the DB box?

Please check this out the FAQ here.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...home-networking.6653421/page-3#post-149431568

Option 1: use a router in the DB Box, ONR or "ONT+wired router" can be a good solution.
Option 2: use a dumb switch in the DB Box, you need to have two LAN ports in the central location (eg: living room).
Option 3: using two managed switch, this can be expensive for 10Gbps capable managed switch.
 
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xiaofan

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Good inputs here.

Power users will usually like the following configuration.
ONT + wired router + 10G/2.5G or 10G capable switch --> 10G/2.5G/1G Wireless AP

The wired router can be PCs running pfSense/OPNsense/OpenWRT/etc, or Ubiquiti 10G capable Gateways, or MikroTik 10G capable routers.

https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...dband-official-thread-part-6.6473287/page-105

I feel that for a 10g internet setup now, and looking at what is offered with the various plans, that to have some room for upgrade mobilty , a pfsense/opnsense/openwrt PC based router with a managed switch, and access points is the more sensible setup. That way, you can always mix and match and upgrade according in the years to come. But this option does add complexity and it can be daunting

Depends on how you look at it, I find having to live with the constraints of the all in one router to be more daunting. And not just for 10G plans, the issue has been there since cable internet days, but is vastly magnified by requirements of XGS-PON. And once you got used to the flexibility and upgradability of software firewalls you would avoid the all in one routers like plague.

Among the issues :
1) Cost of decent routers are very high and has significant limitations
2) In many case the ideal location of the switch/firewall in the DB box, but the AP should be somewhere central to the house, but a router force you to have an AP in the DB which is often a poor choice.
3) Limited switch ports and rigid switch port speed in all in one routers. There is much more option available if you pick your own switch
4) AP has a development cycle that is different from switch ports, if you want to upgrade the wireless function in a router, you replace the entire router.
5) Firewall / router function in all in one router is generally primitive compare to software firewall
6) Keeping all in one router firmware up to date is heavily dependent on the manufacturer, and support tend not to last very long. Software firewall are supported much longer.
7) If you want to upgrade a 2.5gbps router to 10gbps, you throw it away and buy a new one. On a PC, you buy a dual port 10gbps nic and swap it out, not to mention dual port 10gbps nic are relatively affordable due to retirement of server nics.
8) If you have complex configuration in the firewall/router, just migrating that to a new device is already quite daunting, and everytime you change the device you need to do that. On a software firewall, what you do is a back & restore, and the frequency you need to do that is much lower.

If you keep a single LAN network, you can do without a managed switch, PC firewall with dual NIC, one as WAN, one as LAN, LAN goes to unmanaged switch. Connect up the AP (or a router running in AP mode) and you are done.

Hypervisor & managed switch allow more flexibility & capability, but not a requirement, but that does limits the location of the firewall.
 
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jinsatkilife

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What kind of real world speed should be expected if using wireless overhaul with mesh router with direct ethernet connection from pc to mesh router etc?

For eg, if u have 10gbps, then expect 2gbps from mesh?

5gbps, then expext 1gbps?

Does it work that way?
 

A7997A

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What kind of real world speed should be expected if using wireless overhaul with mesh router with direct ethernet connection from pc to mesh router etc?

For eg, if u have 10gbps, then expect 2gbps from mesh?

5gbps, then expext 1gbps?

Does it work that way?
Mainly depends on the capacity between the mesh node, that usually is the bottleneck unless your speed to the mesh node is slower than that.
 

xiaofan

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What kind of real world speed should be expected if using wireless overhaul with mesh router with direct ethernet connection from pc to mesh router etc?

For eg, if u have 10gbps, then expect 2gbps from mesh?

5gbps, then expext 1gbps?

Does it work that way?

You mean something like the following?

Main 10G capable WiFi 7 router (triband) -- wireless backhaul -- 10G capable WiFi 7 mesh node (triband) -- Laptop/Desktop with 10G NIC.

It will probably be > 3Gbps no matter you use 5Gbps or 10Gbps Fibre internet plan if you have good link between the mesh node and the main node.

One example from Youtube Video using Deco BE85 and Wireless backhaul. He is using 5Gbps Fibre Internet.
ONT -- Deco BE85 main router -- wireless backhaul -- Deco BE85 mesh node -- Mac Mini with 10G NIC. He can almost get the full 5Gbps speed for download.

qNTNUpA.jpeg


Reason --> the wireless backhaul speed can be very fast between the two wireless router, but of course it will depend on the placement and the obstructions in between. If you have two walls in between, then forget about such speed.
4x4 WiFi 7 320MHz channel bandwidth 4096QAM on 6GHz band --> 11528 Mbps PHY LInk speed
4x4 WiFi 7 160MHz channel bandwidth 4096QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 5764 Mbps PHY Link Speed
4x4 WiFi 7 160MHz channel bandwidth 1024QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 4804 Mbps PHY Link Speed
 
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kimsix

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Be85 and eb810v on paper have 240mhz on 5ghz, can link at 8.6gbps

any SH bros use wireless backhaul on 240mhz? Is it powerful? Or BE85 users

240mhz doesn’t work on eb810v if using as normal client ap broadcast

@kashix @matique
 

A7997A

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Alternative way for ONT based solution
ONT + wireless router + 10G/2.5G capable switch --> 10G/2.5G/1G Wireless AP
ONT + wired router + 10G/2.5G capable switch --> 10G/2.5G/1G Wireless AP

For power users, the wired router can be PCs running pfSense/OPNsense/OpenWRT/etc, or Ubiquiti 10G capable Gateways, or MikroTik 10G capable routers.
Sophos Firewall is another option for PC firewall, is commercial but got free home edition :
https://www.sophos.com/en-us/free-tools/sophos-xg-firewall-home-edition/software

Prefer it over pfsense.
 

xiaofan

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xiaofan

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You mean something like the following?

Main 10G capable WiFi 7 router (triband) -- wireless backhaul -- 10G capable WiFi 7 mesh node (triband) -- Laptop/Desktop with 10G NIC.

It will probably be > 3Gbps no matter you use 5Gbps or 10Gbps Fibre internet plan if you have good link between the mesh node and the main node.
...
Reason --> the wireless backhaul speed can be very fast between the two wireless router, but of course it will depend on the placement and the obstructions in between. If you have two walls in between, then forget about such speed.
4x4 WiFi 7 320MHz channel bandwidth 4096QAM on 6GHz band --> 11528 Mbps PHY LInk speed
4x4 WiFi 7 160MHz channel bandwidth 4096QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 5764 Mbps PHY Link Speed
4x4 WiFi 7 160MHz channel bandwidth 1024QAM on 5GHz/6GHz band --> 4804 Mbps PHY Link Speed

Another example from the report of local site OCworkbench --> 7.82 Gbps.

Main 10G capable WiFi 7 router (quad band) -- wireless backhaul -- 10G capable WiFi 7 mesh node (quad band) -- Laptop/Desktop with 10G NIC.

https://en.ocworkbench.com/asus-zenwifi-bq16-wifi-7-router-attains-7-8-gbps-in-speedtest/
 

xiaofan

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On the other hand, even though the wired client to the mesh node can get very high speed, the wireless client of the mesh node will be much slower.

Main 10G capable WiFi 7 router-- wireless backhaul -- 10G capable WiFi 7 mesh node -- Laptop/Desktop with 10G NIC (wired client) --> 3Gbps to 8Gbps for the good router

Main 10G capable WiFi 7 router-- wireless backhaul -- 10G capable WiFi 7 mesh node -- Laptop/Desktop with WiFi 7 adapters (wireless client) --> most likely below 3Gbps or often below 2Gbps
 

mikezuper

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This thread will talk about WiFi configuration for 5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plans now that they are getting popular.

Take note it is difficult to fully utlize the 5Gbps or 8.2Gbps (typical max bandwidth for 10Gbps plan) purely using wireless devices. So it is better to have at least one 5Gbps/10Gbps capable wired devices. Then you can use 10G/5G or even 2.5G/1G capable wireless AP with the 5Gbps/6Gbps/10Gbps plan.

There is also nothing wrong to use the 5Gbps/10Gbps plans as a pure 2.5Gbps or even pure 1Gbps plan, but this thread will not cover those use cases.

Typical configurations.
1) ONR based solution --> Singtel/WC ZTE F8648P ONR (wired ONR, no wireless function) and Starhub Nokia XS-2426X-A (AX6000 wireless integrated).

Some VQ users have requested VQ to configure the FibreHome ONR as router mode. Then it is similar to Singtel/WC ONR.

2) ONT based solution --> Starhub (if not using Nokia ONR), MR, VQ (either ONT or default bridged ONR) and SIMBA. You have to connect a 5Gbps/10G capable router behind the ONT.

Related thread -- 10G capable routers and switches.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...and-switch-rj45-version-no-sfp-ports.7072646/
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...port-switch-and-vq-xgs-pon-onu-stick.7047645/

For more about WiFi 7 routers, please refer to this thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...-7-routers-without-6ghz-band-support.6905228/

For more about WiFi 7 devices including SpeedTest results, please refer to this thread.
https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/...reless-speedtest-and-wifi-7-adapters.7048233/
Thread subscribed for future reference :)

Upz for Xiaofan korkor!

Are you working in Network related stuff or this is pure hobby :)
 
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