Will double FRS be enough?

starlight318

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The mental faculties part is a good point, something I never really considered before. There is indeed a risk of old people falling prey to scammers or who knows we may even get addicted to gambling or other vices and end up losing a big chunk of our lifetime savings.
 

royalmix

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Agreed....when we are young and mighty, we do not foresee such circumstances.

In a way CPF Life, Medishield , Careshield etc are also designed to "protect" the govt themselves. There is only a finite sum of subsidies/handout from our reserves.
Spot on! All these schemes are to protect the govt's resources, so they can tap on the monies (like CPF life Pool Interests) of those who die earlier than expected to fund those who live longer than expected. Standard and Escalating Plans will help provide a bigger pool of funds for this purpose. Similar objectives with the other shield schemes too.

CPF Life is like a scheme to help those who cannot manage their funds/monies , be it due to mental incapacities or mental disabilities/weakness, who rely heavily on CPF Life monies for retirement, no contingency plans like LPA, etc.
 

8zaoyu

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Some numbers from the estimator. <<https://www.cpf.gov.sg/lifeestimator>>
Calculated based on Male born in 1967, with 2022
If you can delay payouts to 70yo, it is more feasible.
Perhaps if you have been contributing to SRS, that could payout at age 62.

If you cannot afford to top-up RA beyond FRS at 55, there is also the option to top-up annually, which may also attract tax relief for yourself and/or children (up to FRS for that year).
You can also top-up RA even after payout starts to increase future payouts.

CPFlife is a good way for people who are not financially learned to have income for life. Even if we are financially smart, we cannot be sure that we will not lose our mental faculties later in life.
I still like the FRS at CPFlife Standard plan, not escalating plan ( delay a portion of payouts). You may chew food now, does not mean you can chew food after a stroke, meaning had to be on adult milk feeds via tube feeding through nose later. If still working after 65, maybe one can delay payouts till near 70. Around 70, if you have room/shopstall rentals and other passive dividend incomes, the younger of the elderly couple can perhaps choose the Enhanced scheme. Because at late stage of life, it is like anyday will be called to heaven. Anyway, nowadays how much is a person’s payout, each will know. There is a difference btw a non- working housewife/casual contract job hopper and a salaried worker who had worked from 25yo till 65 yo!
SRS is for folks who has long years of income tax payable not folks with a bit of income tax payable in their senior work life.
 

8zaoyu

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Spot on! All these schemes are to protect the govt's resources, so they can tap on the monies (like CPF life Pool Interests) of those who die earlier than expected to fund those who live longer than expected. Standard and Escalating Plans will help provide a bigger pool of funds for this purpose. Similar objectives with the other shield schemes too.

CPF Life is like a scheme to help those who cannot manage their funds/monies , be it due to mental incapacities or mental disabilities/weakness, who rely heavily on CPF Life monies for retirement, no contingency plans like LPA, etc.
Even if govt build community homes/hospitals, there are lack of nursing asistant staff all over the world. If only you motivate your maids and daughters and daughter in laws to nurse the elderlies in your own homes, should be the best. I think, got reasonable money to pay but just nobody wants this type of ‘cleaner’s job’ job!
 

andyhtc

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Even if govt build community homes/hospitals, there are lack of nursing asistant staff all over the world. If only you motivate your maids and daughters and daughter in laws to nurse the elderlies in your own homes, should be the best. I think, got reasonable money to pay but just nobody wants this type of ‘cleaner’s job’ job!

It is just a matter of adjusting the salary and benefits upwards.
 

dork32

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Escalating Plan gives you additional 2% increase (not guaranteed) in payout:
  1. this is not equivalent to additional 2% increase in interest on your premiums
  2. You are just getting more payouts to deplete your premiums at a faster rate
  3. Get more payouts from the amounts you saved/reduced in the earlier years
  4. Get more monies from the CPF Life Pool (interests) of other people/your premiums if you can live beyond 90+ (estimated)
  5. It is not real increase in money but delaying gratification?
Fight inflation? Now there is inflation, how do you fight? Recession/inflation proof your monies, cut your expenses, increase your other sources of income, etc

Grow my monies in RHB at more than 5% (guaranteed) or Tbills (now more than 4%), but locked in RA/CPF Life you cannot grow your monies beyond 4% (non-guaranteed)!

Which is better way to fight inflation? Bluff yourself with increased payout to deplete your capital faster, or have the power to manage your money to grow it? Bluff yourself cos CPF Life Escalating Plan is your primary and only source of retirement income/funds?
actually you missed a very important point in whacking escalating. notice that the payout is 20% down from standard. and the payout is increased by 2%. it will maybe 9 years for the escalating to catch up in terms of payout. by that time you are about 75. should you feel happy? no. this is bacause that tough the payour has caught up, standard gave a higher payout for the past 9 year.s. including interest, you would take many more years to catch up with the real amount. this is how the 90 years you have mentioned is derived.

yes the 2% help ease the pain of inflation. but the greatly reduced initial payout makes the pain very terrible
 

8zaoyu

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It is just a matter of adjusting the salary and benefits upwards.
The wage gap is so big btw university grad workers and non university grad workers in SG, not giving or adjusting the salary pay scales even working till 60 like myself working in service support roles only. I do not support ‘adjusting others’ salaries and benefits upwards’ but increase self passive incomes whilst having a basic ‘u pay me what level, u get what level’, have spare energy to learn to get passive rental/dividend incomes.
 

magicming

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For myself, I think like this currently for monthly basic budget of a single 65 year old at current dollars:
PUB: 60
Home: 100
Hp: 50
Internet: 50
Transport. $60
Health: 100
Resto: 120
Food: 300 cook Yourself
Misc: 100

That’s only $940. Let’s put another $260 for unforeseen stuff. So, $1200 per month seems enough for a basic life. So if can get $1500 per month from CPF LIFE, the extra $300 can be reinvested to offset future inflation or need for maid etc.

if u are a couple with 2 streams of CPF LIFE, u can spend less and save more for the day when only one person is left.

Naturally, it is wiser to have more streams of income. So that we can have a better retirement. But FRS is adequate, if managed wisely. 😃
 

royalmix

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For myself, I think like this currently for monthly basic budget of a single 65 year old at current dollars:
PUB: 60
Home: 100
Hp: 50
Internet: 50
Transport. $60
Health: 100
Resto: 120
Food: 300 cook Yourself
Misc: 100

That’s only $940. Let’s put another $260 for unforeseen stuff. So, $1200 per month seems enough for a basic life. So if can get $1500 per month from CPF LIFE, the extra $300 can be reinvested to offset future inflation or need for maid etc.

if u are a couple with 2 streams of CPF LIFE, u can spend less and save more for the day when only one person is left.

Naturally, it is wiser to have more streams of income. So that we can have a better retirement. But FRS is adequate, if managed wisely. 😃
Good thinking! For me, HP only less 0.50 prepaid sim (start to get used it first), fibre 40, PUB/OEM more.

If I die earlier than expected, I would want to leave some monies for spouse, guess which plan can give your spouse the most?
 

royalmix

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actually you missed a very important point in whacking escalating. notice that the payout is 20% down from standard. and the payout is increased by 2%. it will maybe 9 years for the escalating to catch up in terms of payout. by that time you are about 75. should you feel happy? no. this is bacause that tough the payour has caught up, standard gave a higher payout for the past 9 year.s. including interest, you would take many more years to catch up with the real amount. this is how the 90 years you have mentioned is derived.

yes the 2% help ease the pain of inflation. but the greatly reduced initial payout makes the pain very terrible
I purposely left out the detail maths discussion, for you to pop in ;)

2% increase is a bluff, as CPFB can suga suga decrease your mthly payout before computing the 2% increase so effectively it will be less than 2% "absolute" increase. Because people focus on the 2%, they might not release the actual increase is less than 2%, so I call it a bluff! I continue to stick to my view that this 2% increase is not guaranteed if the base is not guaranteed.
 
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DevilPlate

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Just for sharing: Giga offers very good value no contract plans from $10

And so far the network quite stable and good for non-gamers.
 

royalmix

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Just for sharing: Giga offers very good value no contract plans from $10

And so far the network quite stable and good for non-gamers.
I do not need to pay at all, just 1.40 to extend life for another 3 mths with singtel. I only need mobile for OTP banking and anything OTP. Home line is free and mobile data is free too but limited, I use free wifi
 

8zaoyu

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I do not need to pay at all, just 1.40 to extend life for another 3 mths with singtel. I only need mobile for OTP banking and anything OTP. Home line is free and mobile data is free too but limited, I use free wifi
Ya, tis is on a prepaid singtel line, but must remember to tap *398 to extend 3 months, deductible from base amount which to top up also. When old, will forget to top ups and line number will be closed! End up I got a $10 Giga sim only, paid by credit card giro. Recent got a $6.90 monthly Zero1 sim only also paid by giro too. Both by Singtel, free incoming calls can tag to home , etc , workplace wifi, good and cheap.But still need home fibre bb.
 

havetheveryfun

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well theres a reason why gahmen set this as the value even though a lot of ppl also cant reach it without pledging their house. hence it is considered enough for a decent lifestyle by the gahmen
 

henrylbh

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Let me estimate how much is needed based on today
(1) Utilities - $200
(2) Condo maintenance- $450
(3) Internet - $40
(4) Mobile Plan - $20
(5) Clothes - $100
(6) Snacks - $100
(7) Food - $1000

Total: $1910. Divide by 2 (husband and wife) = $955

Looks ok
Estimate so simple? No property tax, cost repair and maintenance of property? No insurance and transport? Over 10 years no replacement of furniture, electrical appliances and equipments and no ad-hoc expenses like angbao, gifts and celebratory expenses. What about personal care and medical expenses etc. My blood pressure device need replacement and my digital weighing machine just gave up on me 😆
 

JuniorLion

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Retirement shouldn't just rely on CPF. It's just designed for minimum survivability. Go for multiple retirement sources. I'd say CPF + SRS + another source.
 

8zaoyu

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well theres a reason why gahmen set this as the value even though a lot of ppl also cant reach it without pledging their house. hence it is considered enough for a decent lifestyle by the gahmen
Pledging enough for some people for BRS, most long service iron-rice bowl boomers can afford up to ERS if working till 68. Most of their adult kiddos do not want to live together with elderlies, prefer elderlies to cash out and live in short lease 2 rm flexi btos or nowadays ‘community homes’ short of expensive nursing homes if cannot manage tenants.
 

havetheveryfun

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Pledging enough for some people for BRS, most long service iron-rice bowl boomers can afford up to ERS if working till 68. Most of their adult kiddos do not want to live together with elderlies, prefer elderlies to cash out and live in short lease 2 rm flexi btos or nowadays ‘community homes’ short of expensive nursing homes if cannot manage tenants.
ya but based on the replies on this thread you would think its not enough.. like that majority of singaporeans cannot retire already.
 

BBCWatcher

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ya but based on the replies on this thread you would think its not enough.. like that majority of singaporeans cannot retire already.
Well, how about looking at the data? Here are the basic facts (per MOM statistics): The labor force participation rate among Singaporeans age 65+ was 13.8% in 2006. It was 28.5% in 2020 (most recent year I can find), and that was UP from 2019 (contrary to what you might expect in a partial pandemic year).

It seems reasonable to assume that this big jump in elder labor force participation over such a short period (14 years) is not solely voluntary but rather of economic necessity to some degree. But what do you think?🤔

I looked at the U.S. data to see if it’s similar there. Over the same period there’s been some increase in U.S. elder labor force participation, but it hasn’t been as dramatic. The U.S. Census Bureau notes that elder women drove most of the increase in higher participation, and it also notes that economic necessity is a key factor among many of these participation decisions.
 
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