Will i go in db?

[MoyoCase]

Then why are they still charging him?



You assume you can’t go DB. I think probably you will be the only one who can satisfy our curious and tell us what sentences you will get.

PES F and ORD doesn’t gel...

Based on your theory, why are they still charging him?

PES F and ORD doesnt gel? well it doesn't . cos ORD ( still can get charged through call up) , PES F ( cant do **** about it) .

well he is not being clear on his case . maybe TS put up a sequence of events to further explain in detail . But i he already got PES F and still typing in in this forum, i presume nothing happened to him ( not attended CM/ not in DB yet)

from what i know if last week on monday example ( u were PES C) they sent u something to attend Court martial ect on this week , then last weekend u downgraded to PES F, that court order /call up is no longer valid and u can safely ignore or not attend to it.

This is not civilian police/law or court ect. where things work differently , in civilian law they can get even if u cancel citizenship....

Edit: maybe i am wrong on this

 

[asfoau2]

basically from jan 2019 i was a pes c soldier and throughout the months i was charged with awol 3 weeks and disobedient to superiors. during july i ord-ed however i was made to sign this paper with the condition that i had to face this multiple charges even if i ord. a week later, i was awarded pes f status for psych issue. in september, i was asked by my unit to attend panel court martial on december and have the option whether i can have a DO/hired personal lawyer to defend my case. hence, i created this thread feeling confused about what kind of sentence they will give to a pes f ord-ed person.

 

[MoyoCase]

basically from jan 2019 i was a pes c soldier and throughout the months i was charged with awol 3 weeks and disobedient to superiors. during july i ord-ed however i was made to sign this paper with the condition that i had to face this multiple charges even if i ord. a week later, i was awarded pes f status for psych issue. in september, i was asked by my unit to attend panel court martial on december and have the option whether i can have a DO/hired personal lawyer to defend my case. hence, i created this thread feeling confused about what kind of sentence they will give to a pes f ord-ed person.

ok got it...u was made to sign this paper with the condition that u had to face this multiple charges even if u ord, why did u sign it? i think yr mistake was that..

Anyway i think even if u ignore or dont attend the panel on december i dont think anything can happen. Because when u signed the paper, u were not PES F. when u got yr Pes F , You'll receive a letter that states you're exempt from the line in the constitution that states you need to serve your liability of national service and that you won't need to do reservist and report when you leave the country ect.. it means u are discharged and SAF laws rules do not apply to u any more

 

[asfoau2]

I was made to sign that piece of paper because there was only 2 conditions given to me that allows me to ORD which is either i get summary trial on the day that i ord which i was still pes c at that point of time, or get trial in gcm on a later date. i chose the latter. i did not however receive any letter u mentioned that states i am exempted from the line in the constitution that states i need to serve my liability of national service and that i wont need to do reservist etc.. my case was brought up to the medical board and i only knew i was awarded pes f when i check my ns portal.

 

[wabbit92]

i was previously pes C in army as a storeman but 6months before my ord, i got multiple charges including awol and disobedient against superiors. however after my ord date, i was awarded pes f status. will i go in db or get charged if i attend court now that im a pes f person with the charges that was with me during my service when i was a pes C?

Not trying to scare you here but according to the SAF act

Trial and punishment of offences where offender ceases to be subject to military law
109.—(1) Subject to section 111, where an offence under this Act triable by a subordinate military court or by a disciplinary officer has been committed or is reasonably suspected of having been committed by any person while subject to military law then in relation to that offence he shall be treated for the provisions of this Act relating to arrest, keeping in custody, investigation of offences, trial and punishment by a subordinate military court or by a disciplinary officer (including review) and execution of sentences as continuing to be subject to military law notwithstanding his ceasing at any time to be subject thereto.
(1A) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) but subject to section 111, where an offence under this Act triable by a subordinate military court or by a disciplinary officer has been committed or is reasonably suspected of having been committed by any person while subject to military law, the subordinate military court or disciplinary officer before which the offence is triable may order that person to report for trial for the offence as if that person continued to be subject to military law notwithstanding his ceasing at any time to be subject to military law.
[16/2001 wef 15/05/2001]
(1B) Any person who fails to comply with any order under subsection (1A) —
(a) shall be deemed to have failed to comply with a lawful order within the meaning of section 17(2); and
(b) shall be liable to be arrested, proceeded against and punished for an offence under section 17(2) as if he continued to be subject to military law.
[16/2001 wef 15/05/2001]
(2) Where a person subject to military law is sentenced by a subordinate military court to imprisonment, special detention or detention or by a disciplinary officer to detention, this Act shall apply to him during the term of his sentence, notwithstanding that he is discharged or dismissed from the Singapore Armed Forces, or has otherwise ceased to be subject to military law, and he may be kept, removed, imprisoned, made to undergo special detention or detention, and punished accordingly as if he continued to be subject to military law.

Under this chapter, you will still be liable for your offence even if you had cease to be under military law, ie PES F


As for DB wise, not necessary you will be in DB but the law did mentioned you can be placed under special detention or even transferred to civil prisons. But actual punishment for your case, I am not very sure. All the best to you

Civil prisons may receive military prisoners
123. It shall be lawful for the Commissioner of Prisons appointed under section 20 of the Prisons Act (Cap. 247) or any Superintendent of Prisons, in accordance with any regulations made under this Act, to receive any person —
(a) sentenced by a subordinate military court duly sent to him in pursuance of such regulations and to confine him until execution of the sentence is completed or the prisoner is discharged or delivered over in due course of law;
(b) delivered into his custody as a deserter or absentee without leave by any person conveying him under legal authority on production of a warrant of a magistrate on which such deserter or absentee without leave has been taken or committed; and
(c) in military custody and detain him for a period not exceeding 7 days.

 

[wabbit92]

after ORD still can go DB but...

I think there is a time limit .. like 6 months or so.. after u ORD where u are liable to be charged. After 6 months they cant backdate more than 6 months ago and send one to DB

But TS already PES F discharged.

True and not true

Time limits for summary trial
78.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall be tried by a disciplinary officer —
(a) if he has been released or discharged within 6 months after the commission of the offence, after the expiry of 3 years from the date of the commission of the offence;
(b) if he is an operationally ready national serviceman at the time of the commission of the offence, after the expiry of 3 years from that time;
(c) in any other case, after the expiry of 6 months from the date of the commission of the offence.
[1/91; 20/94]
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1), the Armed Forces Council or any officer, senior military expert or person authorised by the Council may by order in writing direct a person to be tried after the expiry of the period of 6 months or 3 years referred to in subsection (1) where the circumstances of the case warrant such a summary trial.
[28/2009 wef 01/04/2010]
(3) No person shall be tried after the expiry of any time limit specified in section 111 for the trial of any offence referred to in that section.


However this only apply for summary trial, not court martial cases. See the title. Any point 2 also mentioned, that all you need is a 2LT is request to charge and the expiry date wouldnt matter.

The only safe date for GCM is 3 YEARS after the do has begin the charge formalilites

Limitation of time for trial of offences
111.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall in pursuance of this Act be tried for any offence triable under this Act unless the trial is begun within 3 years after —
(a) the date on which the offence was committed; or
(b) the date on which information relating to the commission of that offence was reported to a disciplinary officer having jurisdiction over the accused or to a military policeman,
whichever date is the later.
[1/94]

However poor TS unfortunately commited AWOL , hence his offence will technically be without expiry.

(2) This section shall not apply to a trial for the offence of misconduct in action, assisting the enemy, mutiny, absence without leave or desertion.

 

[reddevil0728]

PES F and ORD doesnt gel? well it doesn't . cos ORD ( still can get charged through call up) , PES F ( cant do **** about it) .

well he is not being clear on his case . maybe TS put up a sequence of events to further explain in detail . But i he already got PES F and still typing in in this forum, i presume nothing happened to him ( not attended CM/ not in DB yet)

from what i know if last week on monday example ( u were PES C) they sent u something to attend Court martial ect on this week , then last weekend u downgraded to PES F, that court order /call up is no longer valid and u can safely ignore or not attend to it.

This is not civilian police/law or court ect. where things work differently , in civilian law they can get even if u cancel citizenship....

PES F is more than ORD. you are the one who say he ORD

You certain? Don’t make him too happy leh. There must be a reason why he’s still being charged leh.

 

[reddevil0728]

basically from jan 2019 i was a pes c soldier and throughout the months i was charged with awol 3 weeks and disobedient to superiors. during july i ord-ed however i was made to sign this paper with the condition that i had to face this multiple charges even if i ord. a week later, i was awarded pes f status for psych issue. in september, i was asked by my unit to attend panel court martial on december and have the option whether i can have a DO/hired personal lawyer to defend my case. hence, i created this thread feeling confused about what kind of sentence they will give to a pes f ord-ed person.

You let us know when you get sentenced?

 

[MoyoCase]

TS mentioned psychological problems. How to send PES F to DB then? i tot PES F is for cripple, mental patients one?

 

[reddevil0728]

TS mentioned psychological problems. How to send PES F to DB then? i tot PES F is for cripple, mental patients one?

Then maybe go changi?

 

[MoyoCase]

Then maybe go changi?

yes it is possible or not possible also.. int he end PES F cant do those DB routine activities ect. at the most just go in a cell sit in ether DB/ civilian prison down for weeks/months and then finished sentence. But on part of SAF is all this even worth it?

 

[reddevil0728]

yes it is possible or not possible also.. int he end PES F cant do those DB routine activities ect. at the most just go in a cell sit in ether DB/ civilian prison down for weeks/months and then finished sentence. But on part of SAF is all this even worth it?

then maybe you should address why is it even worth it to continue to charge him?

 

[MoyoCase]

then maybe you should address why is it even worth it to continue to charge him?

IMO , it is not worth at all. But different people have different thinking.

 

[reddevil0728]

IMO , it is not worth at all. But different people have different thinking.

I don't think TS is asking about opinion? Cause any opinions here wouldn't change the reality for him

 

[MoyoCase]

well it depends on TS since his seems to be a rare case or oddity. what he will be doing next? we cannot advise any further.

 

[reddevil0728]

well it depends on TS since his seems to be a rare case or oddity. what he will be doing next? we cannot advise any further.

????????????? nvm

 

[matey1982]

This is getting very confusing

 

[MoyoCase]

To out it simple. TS may kenah something. But it wont be so chialat treatment.

This is getting very confusing

 

[MoyoCase]

Dude first u ask me why saf continue to charge him. I thought TS already explained that he signed a document ?

Secondly i have my opinion since TS already stated the above.

Then why u still tell me no one ask for my opinion

I don't think TS is asking about opinion? Cause any opinions here wouldn't change the reality for him

 

[reddevil0728]

Dude first u ask me why saf continue to charge him. I thought TS already explained that he signed a document ?

Secondly i have my opinion since TS already stated the above.

Then why u still tell me no one ask for my opinion

eh nvm. i dun think you are getting it