Will many recent grads be disappointed when...

[charlesboy]

there is hypercompetition in the workplace? And in their 30s when there are limited management jobs and many cannot move up in the competitive sectors, will they be frustrated? Or will it spur them to work harder and smarter?

 

[F3Rm1nat0r]

why do they die die need to become managers?
there are many who find fulfilment in work as executives or engineers

 

[Black_Baron]

why do they die die need to become managers?
there are many who find fulfilment in work as executives or engineers

Because it has been drilled into their thick skulls since the day they were in primary school that you must die-die get degrees in order to get "good jobs", and after that, you must die-die work hard to move up the management in order to make more money...money is the only fulfilment in work because no money, no talk.

Social engineering at its best.

 

[bukitimah]

It is our system here. People like high sounding titles. What is the difference between VP and AVP? Vice and assist difference meh?

Once upon a time during the Bristish days, technician is a very important position. Today, people would like to be call specialist or technical officer/executive. In hotel they call director of engineering.

So after studying so many years, must have title lah.

 

[akloaklo]

my job in outlook office email is it programmer, when pay review they list me as it engineer(but it is not a raise just HR and other department name differently) shiok man.

I believe instead of programmer who just program, an it engineer have to analyze data , know the business logic of a process to code a program to conform to the rules of business logic.

it engineer yeah.

Only poly grad taking pt deg.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Because it has been drilled into their thick skulls since the day they were in primary school that you must die-die get degrees in order to get "good jobs", and after that, you must die-die work hard to move up the management in order to make more money...money is the only fulfilment in work because no money, no talk.

Social engineering at its best.

are you affected by the social engineering?

 

[Jarlaxle]

my job in outlook office email is it programmer, when pay review they list me as it engineer(but it is not a raise just HR and other department name differently) shiok man.

I believe instead of programmer who just program, an it engineer have to analyze data , know the business logic of a process to code a program to conform to the rules of business logic.

it engineer yeah.

Only poly grad taking pt deg.

lol tbh, i can barely read what u r writing tho.
u hv been coding too much.

 

[Jarlaxle]

there is hypercompetition in the workplace? And in their 30s when there are limited management jobs and many cannot move up in the competitive sectors, will they be frustrated? Or will it spur them to work harder and smarter?

this has been the case since civilisation is created.

ppl becomes farmers, soldiers, politicians, etc.
how many can become big time fellow?

 

[koxinga]

In this globalization economy, Singaporean grads already have it pretty good compared to their peers elsewhere.

Figures highlight youth unemployment issue in Taiwan

Giving young people the opportunity to work and access employee benefits is becoming a significant challenge in Taiwan, new figures suggest.

According to the International Labour Organization's Global Employment Trends 2013 report, the island state had a youth unemployment rate of 13 per cent in July last year.

This is the second highest in east Asia, after Hong Kong, where 15.1 per cent of young people were out of work in June 2012, Focus Taiwan reports.

Furthermore, Taiwan's jobless rate in the 15 to 24 age group was found to be higher than the 9.6 per cent recorded by its rival South Korea.

Statistics released by the Taiwanese government indicate that the state's overall jobless rate was 4.25 per cent in July last year, meaning the youth unemployment problem is much more severe than the wider situation.

For the whole of last year, 4.24 per cent of Taiwan's working age population was unemployed, down 0.15 percentage points from 2011.

 

[cancer81]

Taiwan do not have so many FTs....

there are jobs everywhere in TW. Just that due to high cost of living and high housing prices, not enough ppl want those lower paying jobs or jobs that involve physical work.

Mah is a phail (well he is quite phail anyway.... so no diff)

 

[Inix]

In this globalization economy, Singaporean grads already have it pretty good compared to their peers elsewhere.

Figures highlight youth unemployment issue in Taiwan

Taiwan's problems is more political in nature to begin with. When Chen was in power, he converted the lesser educational institutes to all degree awarding institutes.

Overnight, the Island has approximately 165 Unis for a population of 23M. This contrasts to Singapore's 5 Unis for 5M. The fact that there are so many Uni in the Island now means that they are all competing for students, and often not in a good way.

When you have more places then students, there is only 1 direction for quality. Down. As a result, there is a saying in Taiwan that the new degree is now Masters. People who used to have degrees, now need to have Masters from reputable Universities.

People who have degrees from 3rd grade Taiwanese Unis, and they are a dime a dozen, are basically tough luck. So they are left to search for jobs with a degree that is worth nothing.

 

[p00954]

In this globalization economy, Singaporean grads already have it pretty good compared to their peers elsewhere.

Figures highlight youth unemployment issue in Taiwan

Singapore youth unemployment is indeed low
when compared globally,

but

Taiwan's youth unemployment is likewise low
when compared at the same global level.


More importantly, Singapore youth unemployment is on a steady rise in the long run, at least since the early 1990s.

 

[cscs3]

why do they die die need to become managers?
there are many who find fulfilment in work as executives or engineers

As they are not SME ! If they cannot do, the only other way is to manage someone who can do the job for him.

 

[Inix]

Singapore youth unemployment is indeed low
when compared globally,

but

Taiwan's youth unemployment is likewise low
when compared at the same global level.


More importantly, Singapore youth unemployment is on a steady rise in the long run, at least since the early 1990s.

I'm curious about what you wrote. Any sources? From what I'm reading online, it looks fairly OK with the usual blips during recessions.

Anyway, I think the term for Taiwanese youth would be under-employed. I know of many Taiwanese folks who are graduands but are working in cafes, night markets, restaraunts because they can't find a good job.

For those who can find a decent job, their starting pay is around 30K NTD to 35K NTD, which translates to around SGD$1.2K - $1.5K. Putting into perspective that the Taiwanese cost of living isn't that low, these folks are actually pretty bad as compared to our fresh grads.

 

[cancer81]

the situation also spurred more Taiwanese youths to try their hand at entrepreneurship.

we will never get that kind of push around here...

 

[Inix]

the situation also spurred more Taiwanese youths to try their hand at entrepreneurship.

we will never get that kind of push around here...

That's true I guess...

 

[koxinga]

I'm curious about what you wrote. Any sources? From what I'm reading online, it looks fairly OK with the usual blips during recessions.

Anyway, I think the term for Taiwanese youth would be under-employed. I know of many Taiwanese folks who are graduands but are working in cafes, night markets, restaraunts because they can't find a good job.

For those who can find a decent job, their starting pay is around 30K NTD to 35K NTD, which translates to around SGD$1.2K - $1.5K. Putting into perspective that the Taiwanese cost of living isn't that low, these folks are actually pretty bad as compared to our fresh grads.

I had a talk-cock, dinner session a while back with a fresh MA from Hong Kong and a Taiwanese public servant when I was travelling. In terms of starting pay, it seems that Taiwan is the worst of the three, with declining starting wages and increasing cost of living. And yes, graduates there are better off waiting on tables that holding down an office job.

Hong Kong seems to be pretty close in terms of starting wages, but still lower that Singapore (he mentioned around SGD 2k), but cost of living is high.

The point I am trying to make it, nett nett, our grads have a slight head start as far as wages and opportunities are concerned. But as pointed out by others, are we able to make it count, while young people in other countries turn their adversity into their strength (e.g entrepreneurship)

 

[celsus]

Don't forget we can expect social mobility to decline as retirement ages continue to be extended, meaning old fogeys in high places don't make way for the next generation as quickly as they used to

Address one problem (ponzi CPF fund) causes another (social immobility)

 

[p00954]

I'm curious about what you wrote. Any sources? From what I'm reading online, it looks fairly OK with the usual blips during recessions.

Of course I do have sources.

Since when do I post information based on anecdotal and casual chats
with others during coffee or siesta.

I have looked at the data meticulously before I make each and
every one of such comments and posts.

This is and always has been my modus operandi.

Since you requested it, there you go:

--------------

and

Taipei, Dec. 7, 2012

According to the statistics compiled by Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting and Statistics (DGBAS). Taiwan's youth unemployment rate (calculated from unemployed local people aged 15-24) reached 13.6%

Is TW's 13.6% considered high in the chart?

A low-to-moderate qualitative description

of the 13.6% rate seems quite on the mark.

Anyway, I think the term for Taiwanese youth would be under-employed. I know of many Taiwanese folks who are graduands but are working in cafes, night markets, restaraunts because they can't find a good job.

For those who can find a decent job, their starting pay is around 30K NTD to 35K NTD, which translates to around SGD$1.2K - $1.5K. Putting into perspective that the Taiwanese cost of living isn't that low, these folks are actually pretty bad as compared to our fresh grads.

Your description about structural employment and stagnant/low graduate wages is on the mark.

The issue of about cost of living, wages + expenditure, is slightly more contentious and complicated for cross country comparisons.

Better wait for the results of Singapore's most recent 2012/13
household expenditure survey to be completed before commenting on Singapore's 'cost of living'.

The last survey was 2007/08.

As for coffee shop and anecdotal talk, I will pass
as I personally don't find information from such talk
accurate and robust enough for a meaningful discussion.

 

[Inix]

Is TW's 13.6% considered high in the chart?

A low-to-moderate qualitative description

of the 13.6% rate seems quite on the mark.

Just curious. TW is pretty on the average indeed at 13.6%, but with SG at 6.3%, wouldn't it be considered low?

Just wanted to know your thoughts.