Wine

[Dexter71]

Again appreciate ikileo for sharing your knowledge

I have done some reading as well and this is my conclusion. Again correct me too.

Most but not all the top producers has 2nd, 3rd etc labels.

All labels will have their flagship i.e. First wine and also have 2nd and third wine.

Using the analogy, Lexus and Toyota. In this case Toyota is 2nd label. And probably a 2nd wine from them is a Altis.

I do think 2nd label and 2nd wine are totally different thing.

Another "wine" for thought, Could a 1st growth wine producer has a 2nd label and its classified as 2nd growth?

Thanks!

 

[ikileo]

Again appreciate ikileo for sharing your knowledge

I have done some reading as well and this is my conclusion. Again correct me too.

Most but not all the top producers has 2nd, 3rd etc labels.

All labels will have their flagship i.e. First wine and also have 2nd and third wine.

Using the analogy, Lexus and Toyota. In this case Toyota is 2nd label. And probably a 2nd wine from them is a Altis.

I do think 2nd label and 2nd wine are totally different thing.

Another "wine" for thought, Could a 1st growth wine producer has a 2nd label and its classified as 2nd growth?

Thanks!

I think we're both on the same page. That being said second wine and second I believe are still the same thing. Do u have any examples to show otherwise?

For ur last question, the answer is a simple no. The growths are for the grand vins.

 

[Dexter71]

I think we're both on the same page. That being said second wine and second I believe are still the same thing. Do u have any examples to show otherwise?

For ur last question, the answer is a simple no. The growths are for the grand vins.

Let use Chateau Mouton Rothschild as an example.

Is Le Petite de Mouton Rothschild or Mouton Cadet the 2nd label / 2nd wine?

My interpretation is Le Petite is the 2nd wine of Chateau Mouton Rothschild and Mouton Cadet a 2nd label of Chateau Mouton Rothschild.

Does 2nd wine means grapes from the same vineyard but not good enough for their flagship wine?

Or 2nd label means grapes from another vinyard but managed with the know how and expertise of the flagship chateau?

Thanks!

 

[ikileo]

Let use Chateau Mouton Rothschild as an example.

Is Le Petite de Mouton Rothschild or Mouton Cadet the 2nd label / 2nd wine?

My interpretation is Le Petite is the 2nd wine of Chateau Mouton Rothschild and Mouton Cadet a 2nd label of Chateau Mouton Rothschild.

Does 2nd wine means grapes from the same vineyard but not good enough for their flagship wine?

Or 2nd label means grapes from another vinyard but managed with the know how and expertise of the flagship chateau?

Thanks!

I think this is more of technicalities where both points of view can be applicable depending on the context.

So Le Petite is a 2nd wine and I guess we can say Mouton Cadet started as a second label in the sense that they made a wine that they could sell using lower quality grapes. It’s also mentioned by the wiki quote below as a second label.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_wine
Château Mouton Rothschild released the poor 1927 vintage, then named Carruades de Mouton, followed in 1930 by Mouton Cadet as a second label, selling wine from previous difficult harvests considered unfit as château Grand vin vintage at reduced prices, eventually to successful response.[5][6] The estate has since expanded with more labels pushing Mouton Cadet further down its portfolio,[1] with Le Petit Mouton de Mouton Rothschild currently the estate's second wine and Mouton Cadet evolving into its own brand with a distinctly different marketing strategy.

However the term 2nd wine/2nd label can be used interchangeably in the modern context, where it refers to grapes harvested from the same estate owned plot of land that was designated for the Grand Vin production. And during the sorting and harvesting they would have separate the best of the best and the 2nd tier wines, but they were all from estate owned plots and intended for the Grand Vin.

Personally I think many wine drinkers would consider Mouton Cadet nowadays as a separate brand entirely that belongs to the company of Chateau Mouton Rothschild. Mouton Cadet has evolved over the decades to no longer use estate wines but instead from grapes grown in separate regions in Bordeaux and usually not from land they own but from grape growers with whom they have long term contracts with.

So those grapes were never intended for the Grand Vin in the first place. So personally I would use the term a ‘second brand’ as a more accurate description of what Mouton Cadet as become. That being said calling it a Second Label is not wrong as it is a Second Label to cater to another market. #samesamebutdifferent

 

[Dexter71]

Make sense now ikileo

It is this Mouton Cadet that confused me on this 2nd label thing.

All the Gran Vins 2nd wine here

http://www.terroir-france.com/wine/grandscrusbordeaux_second.htm

 

[kunzzy]

sorry i just saw this message.....mouton cadet is no where near mouton rothschild 2nd label......mouton cadet is just another label that baron de philip rothschild created. they use thier brand to sell wines.... there are other labels that they produce too like Clerc Milon, d'armailhac, Opus one.

Mouton Cadet sources grapes from all over bordeaux region to make their mass produce wines.

ikileo is right to say 2nd wine=2nd label. but normally we use the term 2nd wine...2nd label hardly used.

I am just finished my grand cru classe tasting for Smith Haut Lafitte 2012 1st wine and 2nd wine + 3 other french wines. In this blind tasting out of 12 persons (mostly wine amatuers), everyone voted and gave points for their favorite wine. The winner was Smith Haut Lafitte 1st wine (25pts) but the 2nd wine was just 1 pt away.

A seasoned grand cru classe cru drinker will easily picked the 1st wine as its fav wine as the style was completely different from the 2nd wine and its so much elegant, but among amateurs it seems like there wasnt much difference.

Then again Smith Haut Lafitte is a very good wine maker. If you used others like dufort viven or Cos-Labory the result would be very obvious.

I will be doing a Pichon Lalande 2006 and its 2nd wine for my next in oct to see if this result in the same. If you guys wanna test your palate, you could join us.

 

[Dexter71]

Thanks Kunzzy

Which one is Smith Haut Latiffe 2nd wine?

Le Petit Havt Lafitte or Les Hauts de Smith.

Thx

 

[kunzzy]

Thanks Kunzzy

Which one is Smith Haut Latiffe 2nd wine?

Le Petit Havt Lafitte or Les Hauts de Smith.

Thx

Both are 2nd wines its just that the compositions is different.

Le Petit Havt Lafitte - 55% Cab Sav, 45% Merlot
Les Hauts de Smith - 55% Merlot, 45% Cab Sav

Le Petit Havt Lafitte would be a better choice as graves are know for cab savs.

 

[Dexter71]

Just bought these from a NTUC wine club event

 

[kunzzy]

cool....do share how they taste!

 

[Dexter71]

Will not be so soon bro

I got a back log of to be drunk wines lol

Most likely next year then it will be their turn

For now sleep in the chamber first

 

[sinkiedk]

in love with rieslings

Sent from underneath my smelly blanket with duck prints using GAGT

 

[ikileo]

in love with rieslings

Sent from underneath my smelly blanket with duck prints using GAGT

Nice. Where did u buy it and how did it taste?

 

[kunzzy]

2nd Growth Margaux Grand Cru Classe Tasting.....(Last 3 Seats) Hurry...

http://www.finewines.com.sg/a-decade-bordeaux-wine-tasting/

 

[RaisonD]

Urge for a drink on a weekday evening after my workout. Thus decided have this Newton Johnson Felicite No Oak Chardonnay with my dinner (white rice + assam fish).



Seldom had no oak chard and giving it a good sniff, it resemble chard (obviously), but its rather light with fading fruits (due to age i presume).

The wine is slightly chill as i have just removed from the chiller. Had a sip before my food and it is surprisingly high in acidity. It is light weight in the mouth with a little bit of oil + fat free cream texture and hint of apple and peach. My mouth feels chewy after swallow. Stomach growls immediately (not sure from my workout or the wine) but definitely appetizing and goes very well with my assam fish. Got it from Taste of Tradition during their clearance sale. It makes a good starter for flights.

 

[Dexter71]

Friends

Can you recommend any of your favorite restaurants with free corkage or max corkage of 20 / bottle please? Hopefully it has a decanter.

Thx

 

[Arcanell]

jade palace seafood at forum

 

[RaisonD]

Here is a list of BYO restaurant:
http://julianteoh.blogspot.sg/2013/05/list-of-byo-restaurants-in-singapore.html

personnally like burlamacco.

 

[Dexter71]

Thanks Guys

I have booked Bedrock. Let see how it goes.

Might try Jade next time.

 

[Dexter71]

http://www.bodegasamaren.com/

Anyone seen this Spanish wine in Singapore?
Thx