Working Shoe for Young Exec

[archangle13]

Ok, really thanks for all the comments here. I think diamond walker shoes should do just fine for me. I'm not really into shoes kind of guy or a shoe collector. Just wanna know that what I get is ok & good value & acceptable durability to price ratio. Like I said I was kind of moody happened to see that shop and realizing my shoe is in rather poor condition so just try it out. Normally I don't go to these kind of shops, those at regular shops are fine with me until I don't see any good new shoes and kind of boring designs (actually the regular shop is doing sales for the old pair I'm wearing). Sometimes buying things or anything else really kind of your luck. If you lucky, you find something good and which you like without much of an effort. They sort of find you instead of you finding them. Those things I keep finding for the best turns out to be disappointments all the time. Maybe that is called the higher expectations the more disappointments? I don't think I'm looking for higher & higher mountains la when comes to shoes. Most important is the fitting comfort which I find that this diamond walker shop guy takes time to measure my feet & thinking which type of shoe length, width, depth suits my profile the most. I don't think that a shoe that looks v nice but uncomfy to wear is of much use.

Like I said, it is pretty inexpensive already. I doubt you will be disappointed.

 

[crap]

Woah! I just found my dream shoe and car at the same time!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=317975654969574&set=pb.147956351971506.-2207520000.1362285458&type=3&theater

NAISE!!!

 

[Kiton12345]

Seriously?? Diamond Walker has competitors who offer bespoke shoes in Singapore?

The only I can think of is Ed Et Al. The rest are not even in the same price range e.g. G&G and Corthay

Nope even Ed Et Al bespoke services are way out of Diamond Walker price range.

His bespoke service starts at 1.8k for first commission due to the need to create a new last for the feet.

TBH, I really wonder if Diamond Walker is bespoke or just a MTO service abusing the term "bespoke".


MTO:
Takes your feet measurements and modifies an existing shoe last measurements to match your feet.

Bespoke:
Creates a brand new shoe last based on your feet and style desired. Which means anything is possible.

This also means that they will need to create the wooden shoe last from a block of wood.

So now, how to know if it is a bespoke or MTO? If you request and are allowed to view your own personal last. It's most likely bespoke.

 

[arctuates]

It's effectively MTO, imo. There is no last created for you, but a last is "adapted" to suit your feet, and the claim is therefore that the last is "yours". I asked whether this was done by the addition method - refer to Vass' book on shaping lasts by adding leather - but I was refused a reply on grounds of "secret process". I have little to no confidence in shoemakers who aren't transparent about these things.

On top of that, I also avoid shoes that rely on glued construction. And those that use composite soles / footbeds. Also, a shoe that is made using "handsewn" welt, without specifying or detailing how or what this technique is, I find to be somewhat dubious. Shoemakers are generally quite proud to showcase that they're capable of solid handwelting technique, whereas I was instead told that it's (again) a secret thing and not privy to general public knowledge. Because I have seen and know that koyak hand-welting techniques do exist (on which seriously, I'd rather settle for a goodyear machine to do the job instead), I am again skeptical.

And that's just composition. When one sees leather that looks like plastic, feels like plastic, and smells like plastic, but is told that this is "treated specially" to give it a cordovan sheen... I mean, I'm a purist lah, I don't like this sort of fashion-fashion look.

So maybe I'm biased. But crap, I would prefer that you not stake your own claim that the opinions of people like myself - who do do our research extensively, have met and interacted with local and foreign shoemakers, and have a fairly large and varied shoe collection - are baseless and rubbish. I don't claim to be an expert, but I prefer to put my money on something less secretive / fashionable and more timeless.

 

[agentxq49]

Anyone has comments on the Loake Buckingham shoes? I went to robbinsons to try out the other Loake models for sizing and their Braemar shoe size 9F fits, albit a little tight on the little toe (i tend to wear UK10 or US 10.5, is that normal for Loake sizes to run large?) should i get the 9.5F for Buckingham or just get the 9F

 

[crap]

Sounds like semantics to me frankly. I took the time to google and found this wiki definition Here. No real hard definition between Bespoke & Made to Order. Seems legit to me.

Is a Ferrari or a Lambo made to owners' own specs considered as Bespoke-built because its all built traditionally by hand using hammers to beat metal sheets or Made-to-order because today they are using modernized methods to build cars?

If old romantic archaic ways to produce a custom-built shoe, taking ten times as long and costing me a premium... i suppose I can do away with personal lasts! Imagine if I ordered 10 different shoe styles, 10 different lasts??! I ain't no millionaire! Are you??

Why does Apple or Samsung sell more and make better phones than Blackberry or Nokia. Innovate or die... I suppose.

I'm no expert in the shoe industry but I know innovation and product differentiation when I see them.

Nope even Ed Et Al bespoke services are way out of Diamond Walker price range.

His bespoke service starts at 1.8k for first commission due to the need to create a new last for the feet.

TBH, I really wonder if Diamond Walker is bespoke or just a MTO service abusing the term "bespoke".


MTO:
Takes your feet measurements and modifies an existing shoe last measurements to match your feet.

Bespoke:
Creates a brand new shoe last based on your feet and style desired. Which means anything is possible.

This also means that they will need to create the wooden shoe last from a block of wood.

So now, how to know if it is a bespoke or MTO? If you request and are allowed to view your own personal last. It's most likely bespoke.

 

[crap]

Holy smokes!

You actually went into Diamond Walker and demanded to know their shoe-making techniques and get offended that they don't give you the answers you want? *bow* You are quite the shoe snob indeed!

Hey I'm curious now... how many shoes do you own? And what brands?

It's effectively MTO, imo. There is no last created for you, but a last is "adapted" to suit your feet, and the claim is therefore that the last is "yours". I asked whether this was done by the addition method - refer to Vass' book on shaping lasts by adding leather - but I was refused a reply on grounds of "secret process". I have little to no confidence in shoemakers who aren't transparent about these things.

On top of that, I also avoid shoes that rely on glued construction. And those that use composite soles / footbeds. Also, a shoe that is made using "handsewn" welt, without specifying or detailing how or what this technique is, I find to be somewhat dubious. Shoemakers are generally quite proud to showcase that they're capable of solid handwelting technique, whereas I was instead told that it's (again) a secret thing and not privy to general public knowledge. Because I have seen and know that koyak hand-welting techniques do exist (on which seriously, I'd rather settle for a goodyear machine to do the job instead), I am again skeptical.

And that's just composition. When one sees leather that looks like plastic, feels like plastic, and smells like plastic, but is told that this is "treated specially" to give it a cordovan sheen... I mean, I'm a purist lah, I don't like this sort of fashion-fashion look.

So maybe I'm biased. But crap, I would prefer that you not stake your own claim that the opinions of people like myself - who do do our research extensively, have met and interacted with local and foreign shoemakers, and have a fairly large and varied shoe collection - are baseless and rubbish. I don't claim to be an expert, but I prefer to put my money on something less secretive / fashionable and more timeless.

 

[crap]

Did some googling on hand-sewn welt. And Diamond Walker actually has a video showing how their hand-sewn welt is done! Diamond Walker bespoke shoes - handsewn welt construction - YouTube

Looks legit to me. Any expert opinion on how the hand-sewn welt is properly enough for you or even correct?

 

[crap]

And that's just composition. When one sees leather that looks like plastic, feels like plastic, and smells like plastic, but is told that this is "treated specially" to give it a cordovan sheen... I mean, I'm a purist lah, I don't like this sort of fashion-fashion look.

So maybe I'm biased. But crap, I would prefer that you not stake your own claim that the opinions of people like myself - who do do our research extensively, have met and interacted with local and foreign shoemakers, and have a fairly large and varied shoe collection - are baseless and rubbish. I don't claim to be an expert, but I prefer to put my money on something less secretive / fashionable and more timeless.

So perhaps you should write in to Corthay and tell them to take off patent leather shoes then (Maison Corthay patent shoes here) or any treated leather off their collections because it makes you so disgruntled! Hee hee!

I suppose your statement that you prefer only classic designs in a certain class of leather is really your own opinion and tastes but seriously dude, do you need to criticize others who don't feel otherwise? Variety is the spice of life and I am sure there are also high-end leathers carried by Diamond Walker... LOL!

It's the same reason why I don't go to certain car forums because of the way some car snobs slam other people's cars because they like their Audi or Porsches and every other car is crap to them.

 

[arctuates]

Well your agenda is pretty clear here so I won't spend my time writing a thorough response.

Yes, I went to DW. Nothing wrong with asking questions, since I'm potentially the one spending the money as I had intended to purchase a pair for a friend's birthday. Like I said, I was skeptical, but you would suggest that I'm rude, which I wasn't. The proprietor thanked me for coming down to check out the goods, exchanged biz cards, and I left. That's that.

At the end of the day, I'm still entitled to my opinions. I should point out though, that you may want to do your research before posting your aggro. Terms like bespoke are well understood in both tailoring and shoemaking circles.

 

[Kiton12345]

Sounds like semantics to me frankly. I took the time to google and found this wiki definition Here. No real hard definition between Bespoke & Made to Order. Seems legit to me.

Is a Ferrari or a Lambo made to owners' own specs considered as Bespoke-built because its all built traditionally by hand using hammers to beat metal sheets or Made-to-order because today they are using modernized methods to build cars?

If old romantic archaic ways to produce a custom-built shoe, taking ten times as long and costing me a premium... i suppose I can do away with personal lasts! Imagine if I ordered 10 different shoe styles, 10 different lasts??! I ain't no millionaire! Are you??

Why does Apple or Samsung sell more and make better phones than Blackberry or Nokia. Innovate or die... I suppose.

I'm no expert in the shoe industry but I know innovation and product differentiation when I see them.

You bothered to google but you didn't bother to read?

"Bespoke clothing is traditionally cut from a pattern drafted from scratch for the customer, and so differs from ready-to-wear, which is factory made in finished condition and standardised sizes, and from made to measure, produced to order from an adjusted block pattern."

That has been what I was emphasizing, one is built from scratch around the customer while the other just adjusts an existing item to fit. It was never about whether it was made using modern or old methods .

Well your agenda is pretty clear here so I won't spend my time writing a thorough response.

Yes, I went to DW. Nothing wrong with asking questions, since I'm potentially the one spending the money as I had intended to purchase a pair for a friend's birthday. Like I said, I was skeptical, but you would suggest that I'm rude, which I wasn't. The proprietor thanked me for coming down to check out the goods, exchanged biz cards, and I left. That's that.

At the end of the day, I'm still entitled to my opinions. I should point out though, that you may want to do your research before posting your aggro. Terms like bespoke are well understood in both tailoring and shoemaking circles.

Indeed, he seems like some brand ambassador of sorts.

Based on my experience and many others, respectable artisans will not hesitate to walk us through their production. In fact many even seem proud and happy that we are interested in the way they conduct their craft.


At the end of the day, we have put our money where our mouths are at while these young birds just shoot their mouths off.

 

[crap]

Well your agenda is pretty clear here so I won't spend my time writing a thorough response.

Yes, I went to DW. Nothing wrong with asking questions, since I'm potentially the one spending the money as I had intended to purchase a pair for a friend's birthday. Like I said, I was skeptical, but you would suggest that I'm rude, which I wasn't. The proprietor thanked me for coming down to check out the goods, exchanged biz cards, and I left. That's that.

At the end of the day, I'm still entitled to my opinions. I should point out though, that you may want to do your research before posting your aggro. Terms like bespoke are well understood in both tailoring and shoemaking circles.

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, dude. (Yeah silly to argue over stupid words like bespoke or made to order. Common sense says if a shoe is constructed to fit my feet properly, I don't care what you want to call it).

It's just with the obvious Diamond Walker bashing I see from a few mean-spirited individuals (not you of course) who are obviously not customers and just trolling like that FriedBaconWong flame post... it just get's my goat. I just like to stand up for helpless underdogs. Hee hee!! Besides, if you have seen how sweet that Korean lady boss in Diamond Walker is, you just have to save a damsel in distress! LOL! (actually I don't even know if she is aware that she kenna sabo here).

I'm personally liking the stuff that comes out of Korea... fashion, technology, music, lifestyle, entertainment... they're really leading the angmos & japs now in almost everything. I don't see why their shoe-making industry shouldn't be given a chance.

So let's see for ourselves, shall we? PEACE!!!

 

[archangle13]

It's effectively MTO, imo. There is no last created for you, but a last is "adapted" to suit your feet, and the claim is therefore that the last is "yours". I asked whether this was done by the addition method - refer to Vass' book on shaping lasts by adding leather - but I was refused a reply on grounds of "secret process". I have little to no confidence in shoemakers who aren't transparent about these things.

On top of that, I also avoid shoes that rely on glued construction. And those that use composite soles / footbeds. Also, a shoe that is made using "handsewn" welt, without specifying or detailing how or what this technique is, I find to be somewhat dubious. Shoemakers are generally quite proud to showcase that they're capable of solid handwelting technique, whereas I was instead told that it's (again) a secret thing and not privy to general public knowledge. Because I have seen and know that koyak hand-welting techniques do exist (on which seriously, I'd rather settle for a goodyear machine to do the job instead), I am again skeptical.

And that's just composition. When one sees leather that looks like plastic, feels like plastic, and smells like plastic, but is told that this is "treated specially" to give it a cordovan sheen... I mean, I'm a purist lah, I don't like this sort of fashion-fashion look.

So maybe I'm biased. But crap, I would prefer that you not stake your own claim that the opinions of people like myself - who do do our research extensively, have met and interacted with local and foreign shoemakers, and have a fairly large and varied shoe collection - are baseless and rubbish. I don't claim to be an expert, but I prefer to put my money on something less secretive / fashionable and more timeless.

I guess the acid test of true bespoke is if they create the last for you, and allow you to keep it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you saying that Diamond Walker shoes seem to be glued? I ask because I have yet to see a pair in person, but I will never buy from there anyway.

 

[archangle13]

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, dude. (Yeah silly to argue over stupid words like bespoke or made to order. Common sense says if a shoe is constructed to fit my feet properly, I don't care what you want to call it).

It's just with the obvious Diamond Walker bashing I see from a few mean-spirited individuals (not you of course) who are obviously not customers and just trolling like that FriedBaconWong flame post... it just get's my goat. I just like to stand up for helpless underdogs. Hee hee!! Besides, if you have seen how sweet that Korean lady boss in Diamond Walker is, you just have to save a damsel in distress! LOL! (actually I don't even know if she is aware that she kenna sabo here).

I'm personally liking the stuff that comes out of Korea... fashion, technology, music, lifestyle, entertainment... they're really leading the angmos & japs now in almost everything. I don't see why their shoe-making industry shouldn't be given a chance.

So let's see for ourselves, shall we? PEACE!!!

It is not silly to clearly differentiate the difference between bespoke and MTO. There is a distinct difference between both, and no one likes misleading advertising. Legal cases have actually been built on this (one of Savile Row's tailors I think).

Honestly, I doubt anyone wants to 'sabo' Diamond Walker's Korean 'damsel in distress' boss (I don't even see how this is relevant), as long as they make what they claim to make.

 

[archangle13]

Anyone has comments on the Loake Buckingham shoes? I went to robbinsons to try out the other Loake models for sizing and their Braemar shoe size 9F fits, albit a little tight on the little toe (i tend to wear UK10 or US 10.5, is that normal for Loake sizes to run large?) should i get the 9.5F for Buckingham or just get the 9F

Yes, my impression of Loake shoes are that they run larger than TTS. I don't own any, but these threads should help you.

LOAKE SIZING- Ordering Online
How do Loake sizing run

 

[crap]

You bothered to google but you didn't bother to read?

"Bespoke clothing is traditionally cut from a pattern drafted from scratch for the customer, and so differs from ready-to-wear, which is factory made in finished condition and standardised sizes, and from made to measure, produced to order from an adjusted block pattern."

That has been what I was emphasizing, one is built from scratch around the customer while the other just adjusts an existing item to fit. It was never about whether it was made using modern or old methods.

I read, dude. We can throw words at each other until the cows come home and nobody is right or wrong. There are various interpretations of the word bespoke by the Traditionalists and the Modern.

"The British Advertising Standards Authority has ruled it is a fair practice to use the term bespoke for products which do not fully incorporate traditional construction methods."This position is opposed by the Savile Row Bespoke Association, a trade group of traditional tailors.[n 3][5]

Bespoke versus made-to-measure
Between the extremes of bespoke and ready-to-wear has existed, since the end of the 19th century,[n 4] a "grey area of garments for which the customer was measured, but that were then made up to the closest standard size, often, but by no means always, in a factory."[6] The distinction made here is between bespoke, created without use of a pre-existing pattern, and made to measure, which alters a standard-sized pattern to fit the customer.[7] Technological change makes this distinction more subtle, since "fittings are increasingly required for both bespoke and made-to-measure; a bespoke service may require an individually-cut pattern, which is then kept should further suits be required, and now made-to-measure measurements are often stored too, on a computer. Even hand-work, often cited as a benchmark of bespoke, is now increasingly found in made-to-measure garments, while machine-making plays some part in the creation of most bespoke suits".[5]

Anyway, I thought the argument is if you don't use a raw wooden last to start from scratch, you are not to be called bespoke? How about those who use plastic last? fake bespoke? LOL!

Indeed, he seems like some brand ambassador of sorts.

I WISH!!! BUT I AM NO CELEBRITY LEH!!! CAN I GET FREE SHOES NOW??

Based on my experience and many others, respectable artisans will not hesitate to walk us through their production. In fact many even seem proud and happy that we are interested in the way they conduct their craft.

At the end of the day, we have put our money where our mouths are at while these young birds just shoot their mouths off.

Dude, I am probably way older than you. I'm in my mid-forties. I am no young bird, certainly no spring chicken.

Chill lah... why so serious... don't like also don't need to attack others right? Must learn not be so aggressive. We're just talking about shoes here, not life and death!

 

[crap]

I guess the acid test of true bespoke is if they create the last for you, and allow you to keep it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Are you saying that Diamond Walker shoes seem to be glued? I ask because I have yet to see a pair in person, but I will never buy from there anyway.

I suppose I can pop in and ask as I work around that area in the CBD. I'll go and check out if there are any new shoe designs too! I suppose its about time I retire my old Bally shoes! My wife keeps complaining how grey they have become!

My last time there I remember them telling my friend that they have basic shoes which have a slimmer synthetic sole option vs leather sole option. I suppose glue-on is an option for cost-conscious people? Anyway Let me check it out and report back.

Most shoes i see on their FB seems to be leather handstitched type. Go take a look!

 

[crap]

It is not silly to clearly differentiate the difference between bespoke and MTO. There is a distinct difference between both, and no one likes misleading advertising. Legal cases have actually been built on this (one of Savile Row's tailors I think).

Honestly, I doubt anyone wants to 'sabo' Diamond Walker's Korean 'damsel in distress' boss (I don't even see how this is relevant), as long as they make what they claim to make.

I know they make nice shoes.

Inspired now by this and This!!!

Ah crap!! There goes my bonus money for the kids.

 

[arctuates]

Can keep the last if you want, but usually you won't since you'll be making more pairs of shoes on it, so they'll keep it for you - which explains all the romantic photos of European shoemakers with walls of hanging wooden lasts.

 

[Kiton12345]

I read, dude. We can throw words at each other until the cows come home and nobody is right or wrong. There are various interpretations of the word bespoke by the Traditionalists and the Modern.

"The British Advertising Standards Authority has ruled it is a fair practice to use the term bespoke for products which do not fully incorporate traditional construction methods."This position is opposed by the Savile Row Bespoke Association, a trade group of traditional tailors.[n 3][5]

Bespoke versus made-to-measure
Between the extremes of bespoke and ready-to-wear has existed, since the end of the 19th century,[n 4] a "grey area of garments for which the customer was measured, but that were then made up to the closest standard size, often, but by no means always, in a factory."[6] The distinction made here is between bespoke, created without use of a pre-existing pattern, and made to measure, which alters a standard-sized pattern to fit the customer.[7] Technological change makes this distinction more subtle, since "fittings are increasingly required for both bespoke and made-to-measure; a bespoke service may require an individually-cut pattern, which is then kept should further suits be required, and now made-to-measure measurements are often stored too, on a computer. Even hand-work, often cited as a benchmark of bespoke, is now increasingly found in made-to-measure garments, while machine-making plays some part in the creation of most bespoke suits".[5]

Anyway, I thought the argument is if you don't use a raw wooden last to start from scratch, you are not to be called bespoke? How about those who use plastic last? fake bespoke? LOL!



Dude, I am probably way older than you. I'm in my mid-forties. I am no young bird, certainly no spring chicken.

Chill lah... why so serious... don't like also don't need to attack others right? Must learn not be so aggressive. We're just talking about shoes here, not life and death!

There was no argument to begin with when one has been totally out of point from the start.

Since the start, I have said 1 is created from scratch the other is just adjusted from pre-existing item.

No idea why you keep bringing in modern/traditional when everything from the start have been about completely from scratch or adjusted from existing.

It's got even more ridiculous when you started talking about wood and plastic shoe lasts. Your age justification...