Yieldmax ETF

[yslvlys]

These derivatives also can (and do) fall a lot, and reduce dividends.

No, it’s definitely not that. TSLY doesn’t do anything (except decay) if TSLA’s share price doesn’t move.

No, it’s not like saying that. It’s like saying if you’re going to bet on Tesla why on earth would you pick such an inefficient, high cost and high tax way to do it? If you want to bet on Tesla but with less risk to your portfolio then just take a smaller position! That’s easy.

If the fund manager does what it says, then the price of the ETF will not fluctuate a lot.

You are wrong. The price does not decay if underlying prices go sideways. If the ETF only long options, then yes, but it doesn't just do that.

Why not. It's like saying if I buy stock Tesla i can't buy DBS or I can't sell options on Tesla. Tesla just happens to be a good candidate for selling options on. It's different objective from buying Tesla stock (which I do own as well).

There is risk (as with any investment) like underlying prices fluctuate by a lot, skills of fund manager etc, so it's not more than 5% of my portfolio. I choose the mega caps so there is less chance of a drawdown in prices or massive rise. Other black Swan events is mitigated by the less than 5% portfolio allocation.

 

[tangent314]

The price of the ETF is almost always decaying. TSLA is up 118.66% in 1Y yet TSLY still has a capital decay of -14.66%. This is also illustrated by 6M AAPL being almost flat +0.63% while APLY is -13.26%.

This article explains well why this happen: https://seekingalpha.com/article/46...-tesla-income-strategy-speculative-instrument

The article also explains why this really should not be used as an income generation instrument, which is TS's intention. The distributions should really be reinvested, but that goes against the way this ETF is being marketed.

 

[yslvlys]

The price of the ETF is almost always decaying. TSLA is up 118.66% in 1Y yet TSLY still has a capital decay of -14.66%. This is also illustrated by 6M AAPL being almost flat +0.63% while APLY is -13.26%.

No it doesn't always decay. AAPL started going up steadily from Nov onwards, so did APLY. AAPL was in downtrend from Jul to Oct (in up and down waves), so did APLY. This already shows APLY price does not always decay. If AAPL continues to go up steadily (not in huge spikes) , so will APLY. APLY does not 100% closely track AAPL. NAV wise APLY will only capture AAPL upside up to 5-15%, but 100% of downside. So if AAPL goes to zero, so will APLY.

My AMDY, MSFO, NVDY and FBY have been up 5-10% since I bought them 3-6 mths ago, while AMZY, TSLY and APLY are down about 1% or less. Only GOOY is down 10%. Meanwhile I have been collecting the distributions. Hope they will keep going.

 

[sohguanh]

Not sure if this is related to this thread but recently Poems has an article they are going to bring more actively managed ETF onboard. My long time ago prediction is or has already started to gain traction. What is actively managed ETF? It then won't be too much difference from mutual fund is it? Or mutual fund has a wider flexibility for fund managers to go beyond just stocks to boost the returns of the fund? Hmmm

 

[BBCWatcher]

If the fund manager does what it says, then the price of the ETF will not fluctuate a lot.

Just look at the standard 52 week price history. The share price fluctuates a lot.

You are wrong. The price does not decay if underlying prices go sideways.

I didn’t use the word sideways. If the underlying share price literally doesn’t move then the fund manager still collects 0.99% per year.

Why not. It's like saying if I buy stock Tesla i can't buy DBS or I can't sell options on Tesla.

No, it’s not. TSLY is a pure bet on TSLA. There’s nothing else to it. It’s a costly way to bet on Tesla, but it’s not anything to do with DBS stock.

It’s utterly mystifying to me why a speculator in Singapore would pay a fund manager to convert tax free capital gains into taxable dividends. Huh? Thank you for keeping my U.S. income tax bill lower than otherwise and for contributing to nation building. Building the United States, that is. But WHAT?!?

There is risk (as with any investment) like underlying prices fluctuate by a lot, skills of fund manager etc….

Counterparty risks, too. Options contracts aren’t always honored.

 

[ahnyaahnya]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tsl...id-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
5 years. Dropped from $20 to $12.
How much dividends collected in the 5 years ? Must deduct tax on the dividends, yah?

 

[tangent314]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tsl...id-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
5 years. Dropped from $20 to $12.
How much dividends collected in the 5 years ? Must deduct tax on the dividends, yah?

It's actually only the last 13-14 months, since the fund was only incepted in Nov 2022. Distributions are not considered in this price.

You can use this tool that will calculate returns assuming distributions are reinvested:
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=3h9WKz92cqAc5PLmxXG6sJ

 

[ahnyaahnya]

It's actually only the last 13-14 months, since the fund was only incepted in Nov 2022. Distributions are not considered in this price.

You can use this tool that will calculate returns assuming distributions are reinvested:
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&sl=3h9WKz92cqAc5PLmxXG6sJ

Oh yah. Correction. Dropped from $20 to $12 in slightly more than a year.

 

[ahnyaahnya]

TSLY distribution rate 60%. Minus tax , left 42%. In the meantime the price fell how much ? Don't think gain much

 

[0218crawford]

Lately I have been seeing yieldmax ETF with monthly dividends and the overall dividend yields can be over 50%

Anyone bought them? Are they safe for long term? Apparently they earn from options trading

The codes that I am interested in are

TSLY
OARK
AMDY
NVDY

they are using a legit option strategy to milk premiums. nothing scammy. yieldmax uses option to mimic the shares. fancy name synthetic. others use DITM calls to do it....fancy name is diagonal spread or poor man covered call....all are just variation of the standard covered call but using lesser capital and hence higher returns. same family as cash secured put which is typically a newbie's first option trade. no need to pay money to learn...this type low level strategy is all over youtube.

if know how to cook, best to DIY...cheaper and gooder. if don't know, then lan lan got to pay others to do it...else later taste bland or worse food poisoning...

 

[BBCWatcher]

they are using a legit option strategy to milk premiums.…
if know how to cook, best to DIY...cheaper and gooder.….

It seems reasonable to me to pay a fund manager 0.99%/year if they offer actual convenience, or at least it could be reasonable. And that’s the deal offered to U.S. persons, or sometimes it is. But that’s not the whole deal on offer to residents of Singapore who are not U.S. persons. They’re socked with 30% dividend withholding tax on Yieldmax ETFs. That’s just brutal, a clear veto in my view.

If TSLA, APPL, and other individual stocks and ETFs aren’t exciting enough for you for some strange reason, OK, go learn about options trading and get your thrills that way. And as long as you’re not a professional trader or U.S. person options trading should be tax free for you, a resident of Singapore.

 

[0218crawford]

It seems reasonable to me to pay a fund manager 0.99%/year if they offer actual convenience, or at least it could be reasonable. And that’s the deal offered to U.S. persons, or sometimes it is. But that’s not the whole deal on offer to residents of Singapore who are not U.S. persons. They’re socked with 30% dividend withholding tax on Yieldmax ETFs. That’s just brutal, a clear veto in my view.

If TSLA, APPL, and other individual stocks and ETFs aren’t exciting enough for you for some strange reason, OK, go learn about options trading and get your thrills that way. And as long as you’re not a professional trader or U.S. person options trading should be tax free for you, a resident of Singapore.

yep fees and tax seem like a non starter especially for non US person. hopefully this is balanced by a good manager that knows what to do when position gets tested...something which a DIY newbie may never recover from.

 

[DevilPlate]

Omg
https://www.myskillsfuture.gov.sg/c...ail.html?courseReferenceNumber=TGS-2021005373

I just realised I can use my skills future to learn about options trading

If u are a natural late night owl, then go and learn options…..personally witness a few doing it FT and seems doing quite well buying condo every few years with their profits lol.

My eyes auto shutdown past 1am latest whahahaha

 

[Philipkee]

If u are a natural late night owl, then go and learn options…..personally witness a few doing it FT and seems doing quite well buying condo every few years with their profits lol.

My eyes auto shutdown past 1am latest whahahaha

I work shifts lol so you see me post at odd hours

 

[Okmolly]

Bought the Ymax, cony and Amzy. Since I don’t know how to cover call or cover put. The 30% dividend tax is huge

 

[Philipkee]

I buy a bit of each

tsly
Mrny
Ymax
Ymag
Ulty
Aiyy
Pypy
Msty

can’t remember all

China ones
Klip

Defiance
Qqqy
IWMY

 

[GIngerbuzzz]

Bought the Ymax, cony and Amzy. Since I don’t know how to cover call or cover put. The 30% dividend tax is huge

Have u done a calculation of the net profit u can get after all the taxes ? Is it worth it n common sense to continue ? Sticking to SGX Stock dividends might be more profitable like our 3 banks .

 

[reddevil0728]

Have u done a calculation of the net profit u can get after all the taxes ? Is it worth it n common sense to continue ? Sticking to SGX Stock dividends might be more profitable like our 3 banks .

doesn't matter dividend stock or not. what matters is the total returns

 

[limster]

Sticking to SGX Stock dividends might be more profitable like our 3 banks .

I am very happy holding the 3 local banks and collecting loads of dividends from them every year!
Those who are sour about the 3 local banks are probably not holding them and suffering from FOMO.

 

[GIngerbuzzz]

I am very happy holding the 3 local banks and collecting loads of dividends from them every year!
Those who are sour about the 3 local banks are probably not holding them and suffering from FOMO.

Perhaps u can get more dividends n stock appreciation if u invest in US stocks n ETFs ?