*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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Shiny Things

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Oh.. I think i got the idea on the NAV but just want to clarify on one part regarding the weightage of the components in the index.

Shares A is 90%, shares B is 10% in the index.

$5 worth of B is no longer day 1 of the 10% weightage of the index. So when the $5 are used to buy C, does it have to use more funds($5 + X amount) to meet the index weightage for C at 10%?

Oh, I get you.

The ETF will sell some of stock A as well, because at the rebalancing time, stock A is >97% of the index. So they'll sell all of the stock B, because it's no longer in the index; and some of stock A, because it's only 90% of the index, not 97%.

Why do you ask?
 

Shiny Things

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Pardon my noobnest but I still have a few burning questions.
1. Let's say if I retire at 40. How does this passive investing portfolio ensure that I will not run out of money. Assuming my drawdown rate is 4%.

2. I'm turning 24 this year and have an aim to semi retire in my late 30s. With ~15 years to run would it be achievable (current savings rate 55%)

1) It doesn't. A 4% withdrawal rate is aggressive, and 40 is extremely early to retire. If you do that, you're extremely likely to run out of money no matter what your investment strategy is.

2) "Semi retire in your late thirties"? Mate, that is not happening unless you hit the Powerball, or you don't mind living on cup noodles for fifty years.

You can expect to live for about 83 years on average; bit more if you're a woman, bit less if you're a man. And frankly, the odds are pretty good that you're going to live 'til you're ninety or a hundred, so you need to plan for that. Let's leave CPF Life aside for now, though that will certainly help.

Let's be conservative. Let's say you already own a house, so you can live on $50k a year, inflation adjusted. If your investments grow at 4%, inflation runs at 2%, and you live 'til you're 90, you need $1.6 million in the bank at age 40 to be able to retire, and that leaves you with absolutely no margin for error. No big investment drawdowns; you need a fully paid-off place to live; and you need to bump yourself off on your 90th birthday.

A more realistic assumption is you'll need $2 million at age 40, and even then you're not exactly going to be living large.

Every year you postpone retirement makes it easier to retire. If you retire at 65 like a normal person, keeping all other assumptions the same, you only need $1.1 million in the bank at a minimum; so you need half a million less, and you've got an extra 25 years to earn it.

----

Retiring at forty is not a thing that normal people do. The only people who have ever been able to do that are:
1) Maniacal savers who don't mind living on a shoestring; or,
2) People who inherited it.

And retirement is a big change in your life! You need to figure out what you're going to do with your days, because you're not working any more; and where the money's going to come from - because you're not working any more!

Let's take a look at Mr Money Mustache, because that tends to be where all of this "I can retire in my late thirties" rubbish springs from. He lives in Colorado, where housing is inexpensive (less than half what you'd pay in Singapore, at a guess); he and his wife both saved like crazy for over a decade, living on a shoestring and basically being miserable; and he's not "retired" in any sense, he runs a giant fricking multi-channel multi-media personal finance empire that throws off hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That's not retirement! It's a full-time job!

And for most people, their forties are their peak earning years; leaving the workforce before then means you're sacrificing your prime earning years when you could—and should—be padding your retirement coffers.

It makes me irrationally angry that people see examples like that and think "oh I can retire at forty too". For normal people with normal jobs, "late sixties" is a reasonable retirement age. Maybe even early 70s if you're still feeling sprightly.
 
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BBCWatcher

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Every year you postpone retirement makes it easier to retire.
I agree. The math is extremely powerful.

I would add that the best thing you can do is to find something you enjoy doing that somebody will pay you to do. Mr. Money Mustache enjoys blogging about “early retirement” (blogging is working) and getting paid to do it. Translation: He made a career change, that’s all!

If you’re thinking about “early retirement,” it probably means you don’t like your current job. OK, fine, consider a career change then. What are you good at (or could be good at) that you enjoying doing that somebody will pay you to do? Seek that combination, in or out of Singapore.
 

malthead

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OK then, what you could do is to use IB as the currency and fund transfer conduit, from Singapore dollars in Singapore to British pounds deposited in your Natwest account in the U.K. Then use those British pounds and SVS XO with their £7.95 flat rate per trade to buy British pound denominated Irish domiciled fund(s). As a notable example, VWRL is the British pound quoted/priced sibling to VWRD. Going with the British pound quoted/priced fund listing avoids the (extra) currency conversion, which SVS XO would surely not do as well as IB can.

Hi back to this post.

Any thoughts that with the coming Bexit, will there be a divergence btw VWRD and VWRL when converting back to SGD? or the price of VWRL will be higher in GBP as GBP depreciates?
 
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BBCWatcher

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Any thoughts that with the coming Bexit, will there be a divergence btw VWRD and VWRL when converting back to SGD? or the price of VWRL will be higher in GBP as GBP depreciates?
It’s the latter. VWRD and VWRL are exactly the same fund, just quoted in different currencies, that’s all. If VWRD v. VWRL pricing ever deviates even a tiny bit from the U.S. dollar-British pound exchange rate, computer trading would immediately swoop in to exploit that deviation, before it can even develop much. Just as it would if the price of gold (for future delivery in the same place and the same time) quoted in different currencies deviates.

You don’t own currencies when you own stocks. You own stocks. You’ve exchanged currency to buy those stocks, but the currency is gone. (The seller gets the currency.) Those stocks might be shares of businesses that do more business in particular currencies than other stocks, or that pay dividends in particular currencies, but they’re not currencies. This is a very important principle to understand. Hypothetically VWRD and VWRL could also have a VWRS, quoted/listed in Singapore dollars. It’d still be the same stock fund. (Indeed, this is exactly what the “roboadvisors” in Singapore do. They provide a privately Singapore dollar quoted market in these popular U.S. and U.K. listed/traded funds. Of course they charge a markup for that.)

If you live in the world of high frequency program trading, then maybe you’re quite unusual in being able to profit from arbitrage opportunities when stock and commodity “twins” deviate from underlying currency movements, at least until somebody else has a faster and better program. For everyone else, no, it doesn’t matter.
 

hengah_ongah

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Oh, I get you.

The ETF will sell some of stock A as well, because at the rebalancing time, stock A is >97% of the index. So they'll sell all of the stock B, because it's no longer in the index; and some of stock A, because it's only 90% of the index, not 97%.

Why do you ask?

Thanks for the explanation. Oh, im jus wondering if etf is able to withstand the test of time, given that many etfs are created after GFC. Like e extreme cases of ppl rushing to exit in smaller size fund of etf (e.g. like reits etf listed on sgx compared to those giant ishares/vanguard etfs)
 
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311290

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Sorry for asking so many questions.

1. For SCB investing IDWA there's 0.25% comm 10USD min.
If i'm investing SGD$500/month, to pay less for the comm i need to invest ~5000usd
each time.
Will it be best that i invest every quarter (SGD1.5k) and pay the min comm?

2. In the future if i can invest 1000SGD/month which ST suggest to use IBKR.
How should i make the transition to IBKR?
Sell off my shares in SCB or i'm i able to transfer?
 

unhinged_loon

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1) It doesn't. A 4% withdrawal rate is aggressive, and 40 is extremely early to retire. If you do that, you're extremely likely to run out of money no matter what your investment strategy is.

2) "Semi retire in your late thirties"? Mate, that is not happening unless you hit the Powerball, or you don't mind living on cup noodles for fifty years.

You can expect to live for about 83 years on average; bit more if you're a woman, bit less if you're a man. And frankly, the odds are pretty good that you're going to live 'til you're ninety or a hundred, so you need to plan for that. Let's leave CPF Life aside for now, though that will certainly help.

Let's be conservative. Let's say you already own a house, so you can live on $50k a year, inflation adjusted. If your investments grow at 4%, inflation runs at 2%, and you live 'til you're 90, you need $1.6 million in the bank at age 40 to be able to retire, and that leaves you with absolutely no margin for error. No big investment drawdowns; you need a fully paid-off place to live; and you need to bump yourself off on your 90th birthday.

A more realistic assumption is you'll need $2 million at age 40, and even then you're not exactly going to be living large.

Every year you postpone retirement makes it easier to retire. If you retire at 65 like a normal person, keeping all other assumptions the same, you only need $1.1 million in the bank at a minimum; so you need half a million less, and you've got an extra 25 years to earn it.

----

Retiring at forty is not a thing that normal people do. The only people who have ever been able to do that are:
1) Maniacal savers who don't mind living on a shoestring; or,
2) People who inherited it.

And retirement is a big change in your life! You need to figure out what you're going to do with your days, because you're not working any more; and where the money's going to come from - because you're not working any more!

Let's take a look at Mr Money Mustache, because that tends to be where all of this "I can retire in my late thirties" rubbish springs from. He lives in Colorado, where housing is inexpensive (less than half what you'd pay in Singapore, at a guess); he and his wife both saved like crazy for over a decade, living on a shoestring and basically being miserable; and he's not "retired" in any sense, he runs a giant fricking multi-channel multi-media personal finance empire that throws off hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That's not retirement! It's a full-time job!

And for most people, their forties are their peak earning years; leaving the workforce before then means you're sacrificing your prime earning years when you could—and should—be padding your retirement coffers.

It makes me irrationally angry that people see examples like that and think "oh I can retire at forty too". For normal people with normal jobs, "late sixties" is a reasonable retirement age. Maybe even early 70s if you're still feeling sprightly.


Just to add: living expenditure can go down somewhat as you age (less holidays, less meals out, etc), but healthcare expenditure are going to go up a heck lot faster. The older you are, the more ailments are going to appear. Exercise and diet will only do so much.

That doesn't even account for the cost growth in healthcare. Healthcare is getting better, especially if all those stem cell therapies, personalized medicine, gene therapies turn into approved medical procedures, but the cost of those treatments are going to cost more than the proverbial kidney.
 

revhappy

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Early retirement is indeed possible and something I am passionate about.

Retirement is 40s may not be realistic but 50s should be possible.

Couple of factors:
1) Savings rate: A typical family lives paycheck to paycheck and some even on debt. These guys can never retire. Now, consider people saving 50% of their salary, so relatively savers should be able to retire few years earlier.
2) Retirement Location: During your earning years, it is good to work and save in a high income and low tax country like Singapore. Then retire in a low income country like India. Cost of living in India is 50% of Singapore. So during your earning years you are earning double of what you would earn if you were in India and during the retirement years you are spending 50% of what you would spend in Singapore. This is brilliant.

So it is definitely possible to retire atleast 10 years earlier if not more.

Sent from Dont Take Any Of My Statment As Investment Advice. Do Your Own Due Diligence. using GAGT
 
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revhappy

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BTW, I believe most of us will be jobless anyways in another 10 years. Most of the jobs we do will become redundant and/or be done by robots. Govts will introduce Universal Basic Income. Then I don't have to deal with pesky humans in office.

Sent from Dont Take Any Of My Statment As Investment Advice. Do Your Own Due Diligence. using GAGT
 

revhappy

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How? Get Indian PR or Indian Citizenship?
You can choose Malaysia or Thailand. Or you could work in even higher income country like the US or as a contractor in UK/ Australia and earn higher income than Singapore, and then retire in Singapore. These are scenarios, I am not saying everyone can do it, but it is possible, if you really want to do something, you will find a way out.

Sent from Dont Take Any Of My Statment As Investment Advice. Do Your Own Due Diligence. using GAGT
 

BBCWatcher

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You can choose Malaysia or Thailand.
For what it’s worth, International Living likes these retirement countries in their 2018 ranking, in this order: Costa Rica, Mexico, Panama, Ecuador, Malaysia, Colombia, Portugal, Nicaragua, Spain, and Peru. I’ve heard Uruguay is rather nice, too.
 

CWL84

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Sorry for asking so many questions.

1. For SCB investing IDWA there's 0.25% comm 10USD min.
If i'm investing SGD$500/month, to pay less for the comm i need to invest ~5000usd
each time.
Will it be best that i invest every quarter (SGD1.5k) and pay the min comm?

2. In the future if i can invest 1000SGD/month which ST suggest to use IBKR.
How should i make the transition to IBKR?
Sell off my shares in SCB or i'm i able to transfer?

1. Yeah, that's the ideal investing method.

2. Can transfer your shares over to IBKR. Just need to fill up the SCB share transfer form then pay a transfer fee of around SGD$50+(SCB recently increased the fee). https://av.sc.com/sg/content/docs/fees-schedule-for-investments-and-insurance-160818.pdf(Transfer fees on page 7)
 

Johnlinn

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Hi Shiny,

you mention about You should probably go straight to IBKR for global stocks and Stanchart for local stocks. Your account balance is going to grow fast enough that you'll be above the $100k line in IBKR before too long.

I intend to invest about sgd $70k in a few portion (assuming 60% on foreign etf, thats about sgd $42k). I saw the IBKR, if I am not wrong, it charges usd 10 commission if I did not invest greater than 100,000 USD(about sgd$140000) in average equity for a calendar month or10 USD in commissions generated in a calendar month, I would be charged usd $10/month.
I am to invest about sgd$10k per year and on a 1 or 2 times per year during rebalancing.
sgd$42k (starting) + sgd $10k per year, that would take about 8 to 10 years to reach 100k usd to be waived off the fee.

It would actually be very long and I will be paying alot of commission charges. I am not too sure isit still cheaper or do you think I should start off with other brokerage firm which will be at a lower cost? If I should, which alternative brokerage firm I should go into first to purchase the foreign etf? :)

Thank you so much!!

Cheers!
John
 

BBCWatcher

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John, the US$10/month at IB is a minimum monthly commission. It’s not a fee on top of your commissions. You’re still pushing S$10K/year into your investments, and no matter where you do that you’d incur currency conversion and commission charges. Those charges are VERY low at IB, and they’re part of your US$10/month.

So no problem. IB is perfect for you.
 

FrostWurm

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John, the US$10/month at IB is a minimum monthly commission. It’s not a fee on top of your commissions. You’re still pushing S$10K/year into your investments, and no matter where you do that you’d incur currency conversion and commission charges. Those charges are VERY low at IB, and they’re part of your US$10/month.

IB has very low comms indeed, just wondering if I were to take a break from work to travel for a few months (therefore no income to invest for several months), is there anyway I can get out of paying the monthly $10?
 

limster

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IB has very low comms indeed, just wondering if I were to take a break from work to travel for a few months (therefore no income to invest for several months), is there anyway I can get out of paying the monthly $10?


if you have a luxury of simply stopping work and taking several months holidays (without having accumulated at least $100k in your iB portfolio), whats $10, $20?

i would be more concerned about whether i still have a job after the holiday :s13: Some might also be concerned that this means that their peers will get promoted while don't, but these are the small concerns of cubicle dwellers...
 
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