*Official* Shiny Things club - Part 2

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makav31i

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No, that’s an old promotion that expired some time ago. DBS and POSB have shifted to a PayLah-based promotion, with sale charge rebates, but it’s only for unit trust investments via RSP. And that promotion (which is not attractive) ends September 30, 2018.

I have the same question kingsfall has: what promotion terms and conditions are you reading? Your description does not match what DBS wrote.

I don't know where you are getting your info or whether you even uses POSB Invest Saver, this is the statement for Aug...

xFchhgi.jpg


When the September statement comes, I will GPGT just for you if it is 1% or 0.82%...

The DBS PayLah rebate is applicable for POSB Invest Saver...I don't know where you are getting your information from but I have been receiving the PayLah rebates...
 

makav31i

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Yea I was referring ~1% as sub 1. I rounded the charges to $50.

Would you be kind enough to link the information you provided? I don't recall seeing any of such information. Thanks alot!

For the Cashback, please refer to this...

https://www.posb.com.sg/personal/deposits/bank-earn/cashback-bonus

For the PayLah, I don't even know why or how I'm getting it...But it is essentially mentioned here...

https://www.posb.com.sg/personal/promotion/investing-in-unit-trust
 

BBCWatcher

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OK, that's a newer, different promotion. To qualify for that promotion you have to jump through 3 hoops (e.g. add in credit card use and salary credit to your account), which cannot be combined with DBS Multiplier T&Cs. Then your promotion ends after the 12th month of fund purchases. (It's likely your 0.82% under the older promotion will end after 12 months.) These details matter, and I wish you would have mentioned them instead of just tossing around "0.82%" without even a footnote.

For the PayLah, I don't even know why or how I'm getting it...But it is essentially mentioned here...
https://www.posb.com.sg/personal/promotion/investing-in-unit-trust
Right, and that PayLah-related promotion ends in a few days (September 30, 2018). These details matter, too.
 

makav31i

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OK, that's a newer, different promotion. To qualify for that promotion you have to jump through 3 hoops (e.g. add in credit card use and salary credit to your account), which cannot be combined with DBS Multiplier T&Cs. Then your promotion ends after the 12th month of fund purchases. (It's likely your 0.82% under the older promotion will end after 12 months.) These details matter, and I wish you would have mentioned them instead of just tossing around "0.82%" without even a footnote.


Right, and that PayLah-related promotion ends in a few days (September 30, 2018). These details matter, too.

Now I'm 100% certain you don't know a single thing about POSB Invest Saver or anything about the Cashback or PayLah Promotion...

The kungfu Cashback have been going on for a very long time not something new...Maybe if you bother to read on the POSB Invest Saver thread, you might learn a thing or two from people who actually uses it...

The 0.82% will end after 12 month based on what? According to your own opinion or how you interpret the Terms which you google?I have been paying 0.82% for more than 12 months already...

You don't even know how the Cashback works and you want to come and explain to me which have been getting the cashback more than 12 months on how it works...At least have a little humility to ask how it works...Maybe people will share with you on how it works to get it continuously even after 12 months from a real-life experience and not from Google...

For the PayLah credit it have been ongoing for more than a year, they may or may not continue it...You asked those who received the PayLah credit on how they got it, they will tell you that they don't even know how to qualify for it but they just got it in their bank...Same for me... I'm not complaining on how it works and who is eligible as I know I'm getting it at the end of the day...
 

BBCWatcher

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Now I'm 100% certain you don't know a single thing about POSB Invest Saver or anything about the Cashback or PayLah Promotion...
I'm just reading what DBS wrote in their T&Cs. If DBS is doing something better for you based on a past promotion, great, terrific, have fun.

Just at least footnote claims about lower commission charges, that's all. Lots of financial institutions run promotions, but just be transparent about them -- that'd be appreciated.
 

makav31i

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I'm just reading what DBS wrote in their T&Cs. If DBS is doing something better for you based on a past promotion, great, terrific, have fun.

Just at least footnote claims about lower commission charges, that's all. Lots of financial institutions run promotions, but just be transparent about them -- that'd be appreciated.

You can sign up for POSB Invest Saver today for one month and see for yourself if you are charged 0.82% or 1%...I'm telling you based on facts and you can't accept it...Go on just continue reading Terms and Conditions and giving people advice on something that you are not even invested in and spreading the misinformation when someone gave you a reply based on facts...

That's why I say, a little bit humility and fact checking with those who are actually using the POSB Invest Saver might help you understand one or two things about it and correct some of the wrong information that you have...
 

BBCWatcher

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You can sign up for POSB Invest Saver today for one month and see for yourself if you are charged 0.82% or 1%...I'm telling you based on facts and you can't accept it...
Have I disputed your personal experiences? Your statements are your statements. Good for you, that's great!

....But promotions are point-in-time offers, and unless DBS does something other than what they have written in the current published promotions, people who sign up now aren't likely to experience what you experienced. That's how modern financial institutions increasingly operate, just as the ticket price you pay for an airline seat is not likely to be the same as everybody else paid. Welcome to "financial innovation." ;)
 

makav31i

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Have I disputed your personal experiences? Your statements are your statements. Good for you, that's great!

....But promotions are point-in-time offers, and unless DBS does something other than what they have written in the current published promotions, people who sign up now aren't likely to experience what you experienced. That's how modern financial institutions increasingly operate, just as the ticket price you pay for an airline seat is not likely to be the same as everybody else paid. Welcome to "financial innovation." ;)

I just set up my Regular Savings Plan last month and it clearly stated that the rate is 1%. When did this new rate come about? The POSB website also states that the rate is 1%.

I just received the confirmation letter from DBS on my investment in G3B dated 15 August 2018. The gross sales charge is, indeed, still 0.82%. It looks like Makav31i was correct; the 1% rate is inaccurate/outdated.

Further, given the whole host of extra costs that come with Maybank-KE MIP, it seems that POSB Invest-Saver may be the better option after all...

The above post was from someone who started POSB Invest Saver last month... That's why I say ask from those who is using it and not based on Google and conjuring your own feedback which may or may or may not be right...
 

BBCWatcher

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The above post was from someone who started POSB Invest Saver last month... That's why I say ask from those who is using it and not based on Google and conjuring your own feedback which may or may or may not be right...
Great, fabulous!

It's odd that DBS is publishing a 1% commission if they're actually, universally charging 0.82%. (We don't know that.) I wouldn't take the latter price to the bank (pun intended), but for anyone who'd like to do business with DBS on a "it's 1% in the price list, but you might be charged less" basis, go for it.

And that's all I'm asking for, Makav31i. Just footnote this stuff. If the bank says X, but some people are getting a better price than X, provide both pieces of information, that's all. Treat adults as adults, please -- be transparent.
 

makav31i

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Great, fabulous!

It's odd that DBS is publishing a 1% commission if they're actually, universally charging 0.82%. (We don't know that.) I wouldn't take the latter price to the bank (pun intended), but for anyone who'd like to do business with DBS on a "it's 1% in the price list, but you might be charged less" basis, go for it.

And that's all I'm asking for, Makav31i. Just footnote this stuff. If the bank says X, but some people are getting a better price than X, provide both pieces of information, that's all. Treat adults as adults, please -- be transparent.

They are publishing this...

"* 0.5% for ABF Singapore Bond Index Fund and 1% for Nikko AM Singapore STI ETF. For limited-time special promotional rates, such as 0.82% for STI ETF"

It can be viewed here...

https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/investments/investing-in-funds/invest-saver

Until when, only DBS knows...I'm not complaining either way as it was clearly stated as 0.82%...

Edit: Added the following image in case anyone could not find the 0.82% rates...

gk6Akfn.png
 
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kingsfall

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Thanks for the information on regular savings plan and the cash back. It is unfortunate that I've already enrolled the multiplier plan. However upon calculation, the cash back scheme seem to have more $$ than the multiplier for funds below 20k. Not sure why they wanna cannabalize their offers like that
 

Johnlinn

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Hi Shiny!

thank you so much for the advice and sharing!really appreciates it!

You mention about:
If you have more than $100k to invest, or you're doing more than $1000 a month, use IB for your global stocks (IWDA) and Stanchart for your local stocks. If neither of those apply to you, then use Stanchart for your global stocks (IWDA) and POSB Invest-Saver for your local stocks.

I tried to find the thread to where I think you should have shared a comparison of the different brokerage firm, but I can't find it. May I ask if I am rebalancing like you mention twice a year, and it is more than $1k, would it be good to use Standard Chartered for local stocks as well?

May I ask, MBH which is the Nikko AM SGD Investment Grade Corporate Bond ETF, i read up on this I think its quite good as compared to ABF Bond for the higher returns but it wasn't mentioned what exactly goes into this portfolio of bond etf and how many holdings does this ETF has? THe maturity profile is also tilted towards the short end with 43.6% between 1 to 3 years?

Thank you so much & I look forward to hear from you!!

Cheers! :)
John Lim
 

makav31i

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Thanks for the information on regular savings plan and the cash back. It is unfortunate that I've already enrolled the multiplier plan. However upon calculation, the cash back scheme seem to have more $$ than the multiplier for funds below 20k. Not sure why they wanna cannabalize their offers like that

Multiplier and Cashback is intended for different customer profile...Like you say multiplier funds is not for those who do not have above $20k in their account...So depending on your profile, you have to do your own calculations...
 

Ch3tah_39

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What are you trying to accomplish? What are the end goals, and when (how long from now)?

Hi, actually I am trying to save up for retirement in future. Which is roughly 30years from now. But going forward will have higher commitments such as HDB loan.
 

BBCWatcher

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Hi guys just a question, notice that A35 dividend paid has been lower than G3B. However the price remain rather constant even now G3B is not performing well. Is it still a good option to continue monthly investment of A35, cause I also invested in SSB?

Hi, actually I am trying to save up for retirement in future. Which is roughly 30 years from now. But going forward will have higher commitments such as HDB loan.
OK, so for ~30 year money you'd typically invest it in something like an 80:20 stocks:bonds split and with some global stocks. (Let's set aside the question of what that global percentage should be for a moment.) Is that what you're doing?
 

CupcakedCrusader

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Hey guys could help me out a little here. 23 YO here, with a portfolio as shown:

STI ETF: 10000 (35.7%)
ABF Bond: 4000 (14.3%)
IWDA: 11000 (39.3%)
EIMI: 3000 (10.7%)

Ideal portfolio allocation would be: ABF Bond (10%), STI ETF (45%), IWDA (40%), EIMI (5%)

In this case, I would need to add more STI ETF and IWDA to hit my portfolio allocation.Since STI ETF is the laggard, for this month I would add say S$1000 into STI ETF.

Assuming, the next month portfolio is as follows:
STI ETF: 11150 (38%)
ABF Bond: 4000 (13.63%)
IWDA: 11100 (37.73%)
EIMI: 3000 (10.291%)

So for this month I would add to IWDA? Even though IWDA is higher than my average price, I would still buy more IWDA?
 

Shiny Things

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May I ask if I am rebalancing like you mention twice a year, and it is more than $1k, would it be good to use Standard Chartered for local stocks as well?

Makes sense. In that case, though, you should probably be using SC for local stocks and IB for global stocks.

May I ask, MBH which is the Nikko AM SGD Investment Grade Corporate Bond ETF, i read up on this I think its quite good as compared to ABF Bond for the higher returns but it wasn't mentioned what exactly goes into this portfolio of bond etf and how many holdings does this ETF has?

So let's step back a little.

Bonds issued by governments, in that government's own currency, are generally the least risky assets you can find. Because they're not very risky, they tend to have the lowest yields.

Bonds issued by large, solid corporations (so-called "investment-grade" bonds) have a slightly higher (non-zero) risk of default; a company can't just print money to pay off its debt, but a big company like Singtel or whatever typically has plenty of cashflows to pay the debt when it comes due. The tradeoff for that slight risk of default is that they give you a higher yield than a government bond of the equivalent tenor.

Bonds issued by flaky-ass corporations (so-called "high-yield" or "junk" bonds) have a much higher risk of default, and a correspondingly higher yield. Think about Hyflux or something like that; its business was pretty cyclical, it was constantly short of cash, so it had to pay a high yield on its bonds... and they promptly defaulted and didn't pay the bonds back. So, yeah, that's what happens when a company defaults on its debt.

The MBH corporate bond ETF owns investment-grade corporate bonds, denominated in SGD. It has a somewhat higher yield than A35 (which owns government bonds), because, like we said above, corporate bonds have a small risk of default. The bonds are mostly issued by GLCs (HDB, LTA, PUB, etc etc) and banks, with a few other issuers floating around. It's a bit more diversified than A35, because there's issuers from all over the world (Aussie banks are in there; so is LBBW).

THe maturity profile is also tilted towards the short end with 43.6% between 1 to 3 years?
That's... not a question?
 

BBCWatcher

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Hey guys could help me out a little here. 23 YO here, with a portfolio as shown:
STI ETF: 10000 (35.7%)
ABF Bond: 4000 (14.3%)
IWDA: 11000 (39.3%)
EIMI: 3000 (10.7%)
Ideal portfolio allocation would be: ABF Bond (10%), STI ETF (45%), IWDA (40%), EIMI (5%)
It could be your ideal allocation, but that’s not engraved in granite. Personally, I like capping the Singapore stocks part at 20% (1/5th of stocks; this is not agreed by everyone) and having something like a 20:80 bonds:stocks allocation, with CPF/SSBs/bank deposits counting as bond-like and home equity/REITs counting as stock-like. And all that’s assuming retirement plans in Singapore, and >7 years away from drawdown age. On top of all that, if your portfolio drifts away from your ideal, it’s not an emergency. Gentle, occasional nudges are fine.

One potential issue with your portfolio is that you’re likely incurring some fairly significant costs to buy small amounts periodically, due to the way minimum commisions work. So just watch out for that.

At these dollar levels, and at age 23 (40+ years to run), I don’t think you worry about the percentages too much yet. Metaphorically, you don’t need to worry about the pennies. You have a long run to go, and that’s wonderful that you’ve already started — major kudos. As it happens, when you toss in your bonds, you’re almost exactly 50:50 split between local:global. (Almost exactly because IWDA also includes a small percentage of Singapore stocks.) That’s much more local than I’d consider ideal, but it’s broadly consistent with your ideal. So probably what you’d do is just drop EIMI for the time being, for cost reasons alone, and continue with IWDA and ES3 (or second choice G3B). As for the bond fund, how about earmarking your bond dollars until they accumulate to $500 or $1000, then buying SSBs? They’re lower cost and more attractive than A35 all around, in my view. And just hang onto the A35 you’ve accumulated already. Once you’ve accumulated a “reasonable” stash of SSBs then you could take a look at MBH for the bond leg of your saving/investing.
 

CupcakedCrusader

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It could be your ideal allocation, but that’s not engraved in granite. Personally, I like capping the Singapore stocks part at 20% (1/5th of stocks; this is not agreed by everyone) and having something like a 20:80 bonds:stocks allocation, with CPF/SSBs/bank deposits counting as bond-like and home equity/REITs counting as stock-like. And all that’s assuming retirement plans in Singapore, and >7 years away from drawdown age. On top of all that, if your portfolio drifts away from your ideal, it’s not an emergency. Gentle, occasional nudges are fine.

One potential issue with your portfolio is that you’re likely incurring some fairly significant costs to buy small amounts periodically, due to the way minimum commisions work. So just watch out for that.

At these dollar levels, and at age 23 (40+ years to run), I don’t think you worry about the percentages too much yet. Metaphorically, you don’t need to worry about the pennies. You have a long run to go, and that’s wonderful that you’ve already started — major kudos. As it happens, when you toss in your bonds, you’re almost exactly 50:50 split between local:global. (Almost exactly because IWDA also includes a small percentage of Singapore stocks.) That’s much more local than I’d consider ideal, but it’s broadly consistent with your ideal. So probably what you’d do is just drop EIMI for the time being, for cost reasons alone, and continue with IWDA and ES3 (or second choice G3B). As for the bond fund, how about earmarking your bond dollars until they accumulate to $500 or $1000, then buying SSBs? They’re lower cost and more attractive than A35 all around, in my view. And just hang onto the A35 you’ve accumulated already. Once you’ve accumulated a “reasonable” stash of SSBs then you could take a look at MBH for the bond leg of your saving/investing.

Thanks BBC for the detailed answer. Greatly appreciated! Actually I have another ~30k worth of SG income producing stocks. Which makes my Weightage in SG even greater. I would like to maintain both a passive index portfolio and a dividend income investing one. Monthly I have 1k sgd allocated for my passive index portfolio. Based on what you pointed out, I would tweak my IWDA + EIMI to (~70%) and 30% to Bonds and ES3.

Would this be a better course of action? Also is there an ideal ratio between IWDA and EIMI?
 

Johnlinn

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Hi Shiny,
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation on the bond etf, i have much better understanding now.
However i wish to clarify for the brokerage account you mention:

Makes sense. In that case, though, you should probably be using SC for local stocks and IB for global stocks.

Previously you also mention:

you have more than $100k to invest, or you're doing more than $1000 a month, use IB for your global stocks (IWDA) and Stanchart for your local stocks. If neither of those apply to you, then use Stanchart for your global stocks (IWDA) and POSB Invest-Saver for your local stocks.

In my case, i would be investing about $40k and after a few months another $30k.
Subsequently, i will be be investing $10k per year only during rebalancing(not every month, most probably going to be 1-2 times a year of $10k,if i rebalance 2 times,the total amt will still add up to around $10k to $12k a year)

1.In my case which brokerage firm should i use for global and local stocks to be most cost effective?

2.Should i change account after I reach certain amount to further reduce cost?
Thank you so much!:)

Cheers,
John
 
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